135 réponses à ce sujet

[julio77777]

oh ok my bad

Forget what I said i my previous post then but still they have been smug (and no they didn't kill my kid, and i'm still living and breathing). That's just pretty bad marketing when you try to calm angry customers saying

"Well since you are angry, god knows why, we're releasing for free something that doesn't answer to any of your complaints, and that's as far as we are willing to go, so shut up about it."

I do respect Bioware's decision to not change the ending (I don't like it but I respect it), but they don't have to be condescending about it. That's all I'm saying.

[Hudathan]

julio77777 wrote...

oh ok my bad

Forget what I said i my previous post then but still they have been smug (and no they didn't kill my kid, and i'm still living and breathing). That's just pretty bad marketing when you try to calm angry customers saying

"Well since you are angry, god knows why, we're releasing for free something that doesn't answer to any of your complaints, and that's as far as we are willing to go, so shut up about it."

I do respect Bioware's decision to not change the ending (I don't like it but I respect it), but they don't have to be condescending about it. That's all I'm saying.

I didn't hear them say anything of the such. Bioware is not responsible for the way people choose to interpret their words. That would actually be putting words in someone's mouth. All I heard from them is "we made our story, we know a lot of people didn't like it and are going to be working hard on a middle ground." Certainly not the most horrendous statement in gaming history some make it out to be.

[Total Biscuit]

Excellent video, and a great summary of everything wrong with his whole debacle.

If nothing else it's reminded me not to get my hopes up over the EC, and that Bioware needs to earn my trust again, and show they understand what they did wrong and that they won't do it again, before I can risk being a future customer of theirs again.

[Erield]

Shaoken wrote...

*sigh* Would it be too much to ask for a simple summary of videos you find instead of just chucking them into the OP? That's forum ediquette 101 in most places.

The only other video by this guy that I tried to watch was uninspiring and unoriginal.  Maybe it's because I'd already seen everything he had to say presented in a better format and said better by others.  Much kudos to him for actually doing it, though--I'm a lazy ****, so I never would.  It obviously works for a lot of you, so that's cool.

But, seriously, if you have major points, I can read more than 50 times faster than you can talk.  I'm not going to listen to you for an hour.  I'm just not.

[julio77777]

Hudathan wrote...

I didn't hear them say anything of the such. Bioware is not responsible for the way people choose to interpret
their words. That would actually be putting words in someone's mouth. All I heard from them is "we made our story, we know a lot of people didn't like it and are going to be working hard on a middle ground." Certainly not the most horrendous statement in gaming history some make it out to be.

Actually what I'm interpreting is their actions, if you look at most of what angry fans stated, is that they were not confused about the endings, I mean there is not much to be confused about, except a few inconsistencies and plotholes. They were not asking for additionnal content on the endings. They were asking for what they would consider a "proper" ending (again I'm not saying the current ending is not proper, that's pretty much what's been stated), they even went as far as proposing some solutions (some very interesting btw wether you like the endings or not).

Bioware chose to "explain" their endings. How is that middle ground ? Because it's free ?
They're maintaining their position saying their endings will stay as is (once again I respect that), but releasing something supposed to calm "the mob" down, that has very little to do with the concerns adressed in the feedback they demanded, that's not middle ground, that's a facepalm.

Honestly I don't care much about the whole deal, I didn't like the endings, I moved on and I wasn't expecting them to do anything about it, but I can see why people angry with the ending are not satisfied with the Extended Cut announcment.

Modifié par julio77777, 14 avril 2012 - 09:25 .

[Tasker]

darkiddd wrote...

I know the video is long but it's really worth it. Watch please.

 

Just watched it.

I agree with him totally.

[The Protheans]

Erield wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

*sigh* Would it be too much to ask for a simple summary of videos you find instead of just chucking them into the OP? That's forum ediquette 101 in most places.

The only other video by this guy that I tried to watch was uninspiring and unoriginal.  Maybe it's because I'd already seen everything he had to say presented in a better format and said better by others.  Much kudos to him for actually doing it, though--I'm a lazy ****, so I never would.  It obviously works for a lot of you, so that's cool.

But, seriously, if you have major points, I can read more than 50 times faster than you can talk.  I'm not going to listen to you for an hour.  I'm just not.

Why did you even come into this thread?
I like it, it is telling me the basis I already know but adding more depth to it and painting Bioware/EA in their true light.

If we continue to buy their games of **** quality then we will continue to get grey paint from them because we consume grey paint.
We need to stop buying EA/Bioware games.

[Ieldra]

I don't agree with everything he says, but this hits the nail on the head:

"I wanted something more than 'rocks fall, everyone dies'".

So I think whatever the EC will bring, it won't be satisfactory unless it reinterprets some central elements of the endings. Just explaining why everyone is screwed won't cut it. They have to compromise their original vision. Unlike some, I think it's totally possible that they'll do that.

On the other hand, he's spot on about Bioware's attitude. So maybe there's little cause for hope. But I don't know how much of that is just PR talk.

The betrayal of trust is also a very important point. Bioware should watch this. Nice analogy, ROFL. "Will you give them back?", "No". Yeah, that's what's I'm getting from Bioware PR these days.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 avril 2012 - 09:43 .

[acidic-ph0]

Definitely enjoyed watching this... I don't normally care for "talking head videos" on youtube, especially ones that go on for so long. But in this case I was hanging on every word! It's nice to know that someone is out there who is able to express what most people (myself included) are feeling in a very eloquent way.

[GuardianAngel470]

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

I used to have friends like that.

You poor, poor soul.

Me too...

[Tasker]

The ending to ME3 as it currently stands is...

"Rocks fall. Everyone dies."

The ending to ME3 with the DLC attached is...

"Rocks fall. Everyone dies, but here's how it happened."


If it's the "Rocks fall. Everyone dies." bit that I hate, then why would I give a monkeys about how it happened? Rocks still fell and everyone still died.

[MrFob]

I don't agree with everything he says either and I think he sometimes drags things out and takes them a bit too far BUT I do agree with his core assumption which is that BW knows exactly how bad their ending is and that they are just too proud to admit it!
I believe that because I have not seen ANY developer or writer come out and say a word about it. That does not sound like an artistic vision. Art is something that lives of discussion and interpretation and if the artists themselves do not participate in that discussion that IMO can only mean that they themselves are not convinced that their creation is good.
Now I have heard several arguments as why we haven't seen any discussion:
1. The forums are full of hate and vitriol and angry fans scared them away.
To that I say: BS! If the writers were all convinced that they made something really well, they'd be able to argue that point, after all they have the most insight into their own story. Besides, they don't even have to use the forum, they could do it in a pres interview, a blog without comment function or whatever - Alas, it has not happened
2. They don't want to spoil the extended cut.
However, since the ending is not change in the EC, they wouldn't spoil anything by talking about the original. I don't want them to reveal anything new, I'd just like to hear about the back story of the ending we already know.
3. They want to wait until more people finished the game.
It is now more then a month after the release, how much longer do they want to wait? Besides, there are two words - spoiler warning - they have to put above the discussion to remedy that problem.
4. They did talk at PAX.
The statement at PAX didn't give me any idea of what the back story of this ending is. If anything, the paraphrased fan interview with Patrick Weekes even increased my suspicion that BW themselves is not comfortable with this ending at all.
5. Other companies also never discuss stuff on their boards.
Yes but this is a special situation in terms of the backlash it has created and given BW's very open conduct before release, this is a change for sure.

I can't think of any reason why there should not be a discussion or at least some clarifying statement by the devs on this but the only BW employee we here from are the mods to close threads and hand out generic statements and warnings and Allan from the DA team (don't get me wrong, I love that he is here and his posts are altogether very insightful and a good read but he himself always points out that he basically here as community member).

Given this situation, I cannot shake the feeling that BW is very aware that they screwed up. If this is the case and they don't say anything, the guy from the video is absolutely right in his opinion that they are childish and overly proud in their inability to say so and to act on it.
That is really my biggest problem with the situation at the moment, no matter what the quality and content of the CE is going to be.

[yahtzo]

He and Mrbtongue make great ME3 videos

[Novouto]

That man speaks many truths.

[cardinalally]

I totally agree with this guy. The thing that has really broken my trust in Bioware isn't the endings (although that didn't help), but their lack of understanding on why it is bad and how insulting they have been towards their fans. Because they think we don't get the ending or something. Frankly the thing that has made me mad is how they have handled the ending backlash and their inability to look critically at their own work and admit that the ending is just not a good one.
*If you look at the final hours app, it does say brave new world (can't find link). They wanted a fallout/bombs drop style ending so they could have a blank slate for the next game or something. But what they failed to realize is I was playing to save the galaxy as it is now, not some distant future galaxy

[suprhomre]

Mass Effect is over and BioWare and EA have lost one consumer (money).

[Necrotron]

I like this guy. Watched all his other Mass Effect ending videos.

[Necrotron]

The extended cut DLC ending, either everyone is dead or Bioware says 'oh, no what you saw didn't really happen, they're all okay! See!'

Look at the top comment on the video.

"Basically, they are going to fabricate an entirely unexpected outcome, one that does not result from what we were shown in the endings we got.
I saw the relays blowing up, the Starchild says they're destroyed - now Bioware says they aren't?
According to the Godchild, EDI was supposed to die, along with all synthetics that used Reaper tech - now Bioware says she doesn't?
I call bull****."

Obviously, every ship in the galaxy are hit by a shockwave just like the Normany, and given the odds of landing on a breathable planet, nearly every one dies.  Half of your crew on the jungle planet will die, since the planet will either feature amino based foods or dextrose based foods.  etc. etc.

Lots of good points made here.

Modifié par Bathaius, 14 avril 2012 - 10:57 .

[ShinAnubisXIII]

Yeah, some of his points are truly debatable. Especially the Destruction Rays, their possible effect on the Victory Fleet ships and the Dextro/Levo Amino issue. However, he pretty much sums up my feelings. Mass Effect didn't end, it just stopped and I might add in one of the worst ways possible.

[Cazychel]

Yeah, I like this guy as well and he brings across some crucial points in a very direct manner.

The analogy is really good. It explains, what I (and others) feel and why I (and others) feel this way.

For those who do not bother to watch the video:
It would have been a problem on our side, when we tested any developer to see whether they made a good game or not - and well, they did not and we move on. But if we trust a developer to make good games and to have games with good to great endings (Planescape, ME1, ME2, BG2, DA1,...) and we get the same result - we are disappointed, clearly. But are we responsible for this disappointment?

For bias: Yes! So what? Bias is what makes an opinion an opinion. As he states several times.

On MrBTongue: His initial analysis on the ending is perhaps the most objective reasoning why the ending failed. It does not resort to Indoctrination nor did it pick on the small inconsistencies too much. It laid out its basis first and used logic to come to its conclusions.

[Aurica]

The analogies are okay I suppose.. but the one thing I really agree with this guy and he said it better in anyway I could ever imagine.  And that is BW's attitude in this whole debacle.  Its like telling all the loyal fans that they are insipid fools because they dislike the ending.

Modifié par Aurica, 14 avril 2012 - 12:10 .

[Oldbones2]

Valo_Soren wrote...

All this guy is doing is repeating the same crap that other ending haters are saying, he is not adding any new insight whatsoever. Frankly anyone jumping the gun without actually seeing the extended cut DLC is ignorant and not worth listening to. We won't know what is going on until we actually download it and see it for ourselves.

Which is a great idea in theory.

But if we wait until they make and release the ee ending before saying this isn't what we want, then when it arrives and it isn't what we want we are screwed.  Cause it really would be extremely unreasonable to ask for ANOTHER ending fix.

[Ninjatroll]

ShepnTali wrote...

Unbiased, neutral people have nothing interesting to say. It's just how it goes.

Exactly. There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion or complete neutrality when it comes to expressing your ideas. When you express yourself you will always be biased in some way. What words you use, what points you focus on, the way you speak, when you have a video there's even more ways. There are plenty of ways to be biased even when you choose to adress both sides.

[OnlyHazeRemains]

We had something amazing in Bioware, and it's gone.

Modifié par Samurai_Smartie, 14 avril 2012 - 01:50 .

[OnlyHazeRemains]

doublepost edit

Modifié par Samurai_Smartie, 14 avril 2012 - 01:47 .