31 réponses à ce sujet

[ScotGaymer]

Just a small thing.

It didn't bother me in DAO because we had mods, but it annoys the crap out of me in DA2.

I want Mages to have Unlock Lock magic spells. I want Warriors to be able to take a war hammer and smash open a lock with brute force and ignorance.

I want Lock Bashing to be dependant on the Warriors Strength. So that he might find locks that he simply isn't strong enough to bash open. I want it to also have a risk of breaking whatevers inside.

I want Unlock magic to scale also, to depend on the magic stat. So that higher difficulty locks will not be able to be opened if you don't have the requisite level in magic. Also I want it to have a risk of going wrong and permanent sealing the lock shut.

Now a lot of people might just answer. Well just take a rogue with you then!

But that isn't always feasible.

An example: the Deep Roads in DAO, unless I was a rogue myself, I never take a rogue into the Deep Roads simply because I do not want to have to make multiple trips into an already frighteningly lengthy section of the game. A section that is so long it gets mind numbingly boring.
So to make it as short as possible I take myself, Wynne, Oghren, and Shale. So that I can get all the content and all the quests for that section done in one run; so unless I am playing  a rogue warning I would miss out on some really nice loot if I was a Mage or Warrior and did not have the Unlock Magic and Lock Bash mods installed.

So please Bioware, allow us this option.

Please.

Ill send you cookies?

[Dejajeva]

I'll second this request.

[Ponendus]

Hmmm. I am in two minds about this. For one thing it makes everything more convenient. On the other hand it takes something 'special' away from rogues.

I always play a Mage and I would also be aware of the 'moral ambiguity' of wasting my mana on something like picking a lock. It would be fine if I were that kind of Mage, but that is not always the case. Whereas rogue's to me are more 'sneaky' and 'lock picky' by nature I think it suits their role more.

[Sylvanpyxie]

Gone are the days of Knock.

R.I.P. Epic spell.

While this is an extremely convenient end to dragging an annoying rogue everywhere with you. It does seem to kind of.... I don't know, make the Rogue class kind of invalid?

If you build a Mage right you can last as long as a Rogue, with as much damage as a Rogue, with more utility than a Rogue. So Mages would effectively become twice as good as an actual Rogue, then Rogues would just kind of be... The useless class that meanders around because a few select people enjoy playing them.

And those Rogue companions that no one actually likes would be left on the shelf never touched or spoken to or allowed out to play because they're just so boring.


With that said... I like the idea. I do miss having my Knock Spell.

[LegendaryBlade]

If this is implemented it needs to be VASTLY inferior to the rogues ability to pick locks, or else it breaks balance.

[PsychoBlonde]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Gone are the days of Knock.

R.I.P. Epic spell.

While this is an extremely convenient end to dragging an annoying rogue everywhere with you. It does seem to kind of.... I don't know, make the Rogue class kind of invalid?

If you build a Mage right you can last as long as a Rogue, with as much damage as a Rogue, with more utility than a Rogue. So Mages would effectively become twice as good as an actual Rogue, then Rogues would just kind of be... The useless class that meanders around because a few select people enjoy playing them.

And those Rogue companions that no one actually likes would be left on the shelf never touched or spoken to or allowed out to play because they're just so boring.


With that said... I like the idea. I do miss having my Knock Spell.

I play DDO, and they have rogues, artificers, and two types of casters with Knock.  And even so, it can be a royal pain in the patoot to get locked stuff open.  It is not necessary to restrict this kind of thing to a special class.

One thing they have done in DDO is that they've created a "trapmaking" ability (it's also a feat you can take), that uses parts you only get by disarming traps.  Now, in DDO it kind of sucks because the traps are one-shot and you also need soul gems for the higher-level ones, soul gems which ONLY WIZARDS AND SORCERERS can make.  And even so, they're expensive and time-consuming to make.  So it wasn't entirely well thought out the way it was implemented.

In any case, what I'm trying to say here, is why not let any class "deal with" locks/traps in some way (and not just in the "eat the damage") way, but give rogues an additional ability that makes them more useful in the locks/traps regard.  Maybe if a rogue unlocks a door, they can LOCK IT AGAIN and, say, cut off the enemy reinforcements, whereas if a Mage or Warrior "unlock" it, the door be busted.  Maybe it's not even useful as a choke point as a result.  Maybe rogues can pick up traps and relocate them.  (Or make the trap "switch sides" so it only hurts enemies instead of friendlies.)  Or make it so rogues don't set off traps when they walk over them.   Or have alarm traps that, when dealt with by mages or warriors, pull all the enemies from several adjoining rooms at once.

There are a LOT of fun and interesting gameplay mechanisms here that wouldn't necessarily be nuked by making it so that all the classes can deal with locks and traps--and, in fact, would be greatly enhanced by allowing this, because then you wouldn't HAVE to make the locked stuff STRICTLY OPTIONAL.

[Sutekh]

 I'm in two minds about this.

On one hand, being one of the select few that mostly play boring rogues, I would kinda resent sultry mages and boorish warriors treading on my turf. Not that lockpicking is the only justification to the class... we'll still have finesse, elegance, stealth and high DPS ;p

On the other hand, I see no logical reasons why a warrior wouldn't be able to smash open a chest or a door (provided they're made of smashable material and not, say, magical adamantium) or a mage using a spell (provided the lock isn't warded against that specific magic). If only because that would make one non-combat spell which DA is sorely lacking.

I also agree with the OP that bringing along a rogue only for lockpicking is not a good reason to bring a rogue along (we feel so used), so alternatives would be a good thing.

This, however, should be seriously restricted so rogue-lockpicking remain the "more natural" way to do it.

[brushyourteeth]

But... but... if you take away my rogue-only unlockiness, I won't be able to go "HAH!" every time my mage husband has to walk past a chest scowling about it.

[Cat Fancy]

I don't think rogues don't need this special out-of-combat role - they're differentiated well enough already. I actually enjoy playing rogues more than mages in DAII, I just play mages because I hate Anders, Merrill can't heal, and I like Carver more than Bethany. Why do I need to randomly take control of my rogue companions (if I'm not playing a rogue) to get random vendor trash? None of the other classes need to be used in this capacity. And I would definitely enjoy the games less if I also had to use warriors and mages in similar capacities.

[caradoc2000]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

It didn't bother me in DAO because we had mods...

No, we didn't.

[Lord Gremlin]

Yeah, I support OP request. I play on PS3 so I've never used mods anyway, but the lock picking thing annoyed the hell out of me.
You may add consequenses to using mage spell or warrior hammer. Such as former has a chance to disenchant magical items in a chest and the latter can ruin amulets inside.

Modifié par Lord Gremlin, 14 avril 2012 - 11:00 .

[ScotGaymer]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

If this is implemented it needs to be VASTLY inferior to the rogues ability to pick locks, or else it breaks balance.

I do agree. Thats why i said with bashing you should need a hammer weapon (or perhaps a special hammer only for bashing open locks?) and it should have a chance of breaking whats inside. And lock magic should have a chance of misfiring and sealing the lock shut.

Mike Laidlaw said on Twitter it isnt likely tho.

*sad panda*

caradoc2000 wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

It didn't bother me in DAO because we had mods...

No, we didn't.

Yes we did.

Open Lock Spells:-
modsreloaded.com/open-lock-spells
Lock Bash:-
dragonage.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 14 avril 2012 - 11:43 .

[caradoc2000]

Mods are not available for consoles (ergo they should not be available for any/all platform).

[Huntress]

I have only found one rogue annoying in DA universe.. Sebastian gosh how I wanted my hawke to kill that B... but yea I always kept Leliana,varric and isabela in the party meh they always had something funny to say oh and Morrigan with zev .. were good too aww.

[Pasquale1234]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

If this is implemented it needs to be VASTLY inferior to the rogues ability to pick locks, or else it breaks balance.

I do agree. Thats why i said with bashing you should need a hammer weapon (or perhaps a special hammer only for bashing open locks?) and it should have a chance of breaking whats inside. And lock magic should have a chance of misfiring and sealing the lock shut.

Any potential failure cases we might imagine would likely be irrelevant in practice, since most players would probably just reload and keep trying until they were successful.

I do think it would change the game balance, and make rogues less useful - although players who are concerned about that can self-impose their own restrictions if they so desire... so I see no harm in it.

[Aldandil]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Mods are not available for consoles (ergo they should not be available for any/all platform).

I really don't see the logic behind that conclusion. Please elaborate...

OT: There must be some kind of strategic consequence involved with locked containers, otherwise you could skip them altogether. In DA2, you had to have a rogue with high Cunning. I thought that was pretty good. If every class has some way of opening locks it has to be difficult enough to get that talent or whatnot or locks become pointless. The Knock spell from BG2 (D&D in general, I suppose) took up an important spell slot, so it wasn't free to cast as it would have been in DA. That wouldn't work. Then you might as well do away with locks altogether.

I suppose you could tie lockpicking to Cunning/Dexterity or both. Then you could build a mage or a warrior that would be pretty gimped, but could open locks. Or you could make it hard to get for all classes, so that you wouldn't choose to let all your characters open locks. But not letting rogues have easy access to lock-picking would be like not letting warriors wear armor, it's sort of a core class feature.

I suppose letting all classes would allow for the devs to put good loot in locked containers. Right now there's only vendor trash in them.

I'm somewhat sceptic of giving mages and warriors a chance of breaking the contents. Wouldn't that just lead to a lot of reloading?

[caradoc2000]

Aldandil wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

Mods are not available for consoles (ergo they should not be available for any/all platform).

I really don't see the logic behind that conclusion. Please elaborate...

My creed is: if it is not available for everyone, it should not be available for anyone 

I would elaborate more, but the site rules prevent me.

Modifié par caradoc2000, 14 avril 2012 - 07:53 .

[Mike_Neel]

If every class can open a lock then the rogue class lose their viability in companion choice and class selection.

I guess you could argue that if you don't like it don't take the perk/skill or whatever it would be, but still.
I like how Dragon Age still has classes as opposed to be able to play the every man capable of doing everything.

[Takamori The Templar]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

Mods are not available for consoles (ergo they should not be available for any/all platform).

I really don't see the logic behind that conclusion. Please elaborate...

My creed is: if it is not available for everyone, it should not be available for anyone 

I would elaborate more, but the site rules prevent me.

Sorry that your plataform is from 2006
Holding community creativity because you are jealous its not something that I would call logic.

[The Elder King]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

Mods are not available for consoles (ergo they should not be available for any/all platform).

I really don't see the logic behind that conclusion. Please elaborate...

My creed is: if it is not available for everyone, it should not be available for anyone 

I would elaborate more, but the site rules prevent me.

It's not the PC's fault if the consoles don't (generally, isn't there a toolkit for LBP/LBP2 for Ps3?) support modding.
I think that every company should support  PC modding. And I play on Xbox.

[caradoc2000]

Takamori The Templar wrote...

Sorry that your plataform is from 2006

Actually, my PC is from 1999.

As a side note- there are lots of threads asking whether their modded saves are compatible with the normal game.

[Takamori The Templar]

If you mod stuff that you are sure that alter the core of the game related to the story of the game, you should know the risk, though stop the entire modding community just because some people don't use their noggin regarding core mechanics, I don't think that is something justifiable .
And you kill your game longevity

Side note: You console is from 2006 :innocent:

Modifié par Takamori The Templar, 14 avril 2012 - 08:45 .

[caradoc2000]

Takamori The Templar wrote...

you should know the risk

... but the priiize

[LegendaryBlade]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Mods are not available for consoles (ergo they should not be available for any/all platform).

Playing RPGs on a console. In 2012.

Who even does that? Anyway, it's not PC players fault if you chose to play on a system that can't be modded. They shouldn't be restricted, and I doubt they will be.