340 réponses à ce sujet

[Icemix]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Icemix wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

People who like the endings come in a couple of colours.

Those who have never played or heard of Deus Ex.
Those who don't pay attention to the details
Those who headcanon their way around the numerous plot holes.
Those who have no real concept of ME lore
Those who like space

That is far more insulting than your purported point that BW insulted your intelligence saying fans didn't get it.

How about some are mature enough to accept a story decision by a content creator, put it in proper perspective, and are emotionally balanced and well-adjusted individuals. 

:lol::lol::lol:

I'm sorry, but that us just hilarious.

It is the ending to a piece of entertainment that is not in your control.It is not some major life altering event or tragedy (I know that will be repurposed) that deserves actually rage and bitter resentment over so much time. It is a minor disappointment at best.

In any other game or a movie yes, but that does not slide with ME. We forge our own story, with limits of course. They said our decisions would matter, they don't. They said that our actions will define a somewhat different ending according to said decisions, they don't. We don't have to cut ourselfs over it, but we will damn well damand what they promised and advertised, and still they fail to provide because they will not admit that they messed up.

Modifié par Icemix, 14 avril 2012 - 12:14 .

[mmm buddah23]

Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

Kuari999 wrote...

xsdob wrote...
But now I'm thinking of resigning. Too much hate in this movement, I can tell from the way some of the fans talk about bioware and ea, like their actual battlefeild enemies or something. Plus I've never gotten over that tweaking that the guy did to my original ideas, even if he kept most of it intact. 

You can hardly blame people for hating EA...  A company joining EA has always been followed by that company's founding principles slowly being twisted.  I've watched a lot of my favorite companies slowly die under EA that yeah, I would love to see them fall.  I think the gaming industry NEEDS to see them fall.  I honestly believe it'd breath a lot of new life into the industry over time...  sort of like cutting down an old rotting tree and planting a new one.  Its similar to how I wouldn't care if BioWare fell if certain aspects don't go back to what they once were.  I don't think the company will truely die even if it fell, I think it'd just be remade under a different name, which I'd be ok with.

Kuari, I generally agree with almost everything you've said. It's a relief to see someone with some common sense around here. ME 3's ending indeed is full of plotholes and I hope that even the people who liked the endings can see/acknowledge that at least. An ending is there to tie all seperate plotlines into a whole, giving the story a final conclusion. When the ending of a story only generates more questions, it means that the story either isn't 'finished' (and therefore requiring a sequel) or just badly wrapped together due to external reasons (lack of time, writer is out of ideas, etc.)

And yes, EA is partially to blame here. Just look at what happened to DA II. A lot of people agree that that game's story was bad because whole the game was rushed in the first place. The ME team might have run out of time here as well and just thrown in some scenes for the ending. We'll never know the true reason, I guess. But I must say that this is truly a pity for what could have been one of the best Sci-Fi inspired games created in the past few years. It just wasn't meant to be.

WOW, two people with common sense. HOORAY! And AMEN, my thoughts exactly.

Modifié par mmm buddah23, 14 avril 2012 - 12:15 .

[Il Divo]

InvincibleHero wrote...

It is mature not to rage out of proportion to a minor disappointment. There are plot holes in every game and no game is perfect. Good writing is subjective and variable in every game even internally. Some quests are awesome and others are not. Someone else might see it opposite my opinion.

I don't get the I was 99% satisfied people then go into rage over a small part of the game. Yeah a bad ending isn't fun, but isn't something that rates high on my rant and rave list. In the past, I just moved onto my next game because I realize the game is the maker's POV not mine. If it entertained me then all was good. If not then I would weigh their next offerings more carefully and only buy those that suit my tastes.

If Lord of the Rings ended with aliens killing the entire cast before Frodo had a chance to destroy the One Ring, I can guarantee you I would not be rereading Lord of the Rings, no matter how good the journey. We are not all you in how we judge entertainment. You pretty much just outlined that with your speech about subjectivity and how it doesn't rate high on your "rant list".

Modifié par Il Divo, 14 avril 2012 - 12:24 .

[AkiKishi]

InvincibleHero wrote...
I don't get the I was 99% satisfied people then go into rage over a small part of the game. Yeah a bad ending isn't fun, but isn't something that rates high on my rant and rave list. In the past, I just moved onto my next game because I realize the game is the maker's POV not mine. If it entertained me then all was good. If not then I would weigh their next offerings more carefully and only buy those that suit my tastes.

Imagine you had sex with a really hot girl. Then you look down and discover she has an STD. Was the steamy sex still worth it ?

[SirVincealot]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

Yeah, the WHOLE story is actually full of plot holes, from the very first mission in ME1 onwards. Proving the existance of the Reapers, for one thing: apparently there is no video or audio available anywhere even though Saren and Sovereign are rampaging through the universe. [snip]The ending is simply on par with the rest of the games - no more, no less.

+1

[InvincibleHero]

Icemix wrote...

In any other game or a movie yes, but that does not slide with ME. We forge our own story, with limits of course. They said our decisions would matter, they don't. They said that our actions will define a somewhat different ending according to said decisions, they don't. We don't have to cut ourselfs over it, but we will damn well damand what they promised and advertised, and still they fail to provide because they will not admit that they messed up.

They write every option and they did give three choices. They are modified by the EMS so they have at least done the minimum to satisfy that. (Note doesn't make it great either).Yeah I can empathize with people believing they were mislead in some way about the endings.

[wulfbur]

The ending left it as unfulfilled. It paled in comparison to the other two in the series. To go through the trouble to have Shepard live and the result of that hard work just to get no sense of accomplishment is just leaving you feeling flat.
I romanced Tali yest she never came off the ship at the end. Shepard survived a reaper crashing on top of him in the 1st story, he survived blowing up a collector ship. Yet he is a wimp in the end.
No sense of being the grand hero, no recognition, no sense of accomplishment.
To me this is a horrible ending especially if this is the very last in the series.
The so called artistic vision Bioware claims was done in a lackluster quick end to a fantastic series. I and a lot of others feel cheated.

[InvincibleHero]

Il Divo wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

It is mature not to rage out of proportion to a minor disappointment. There are plot holes in every game and no game is perfect. Good writing is subjective and variable in every game even internally. Some quests are awesome and others are not. Someone else might see it opposite my opinion.

I don't get the I was 99% satisfied people then go into rage over a small part of the game. Yeah a bad ending isn't fun, but isn't something that rates high on my rant and rave list. In the past, I just moved onto my next game because I realize the game is the maker's POV not mine. If it entertained me then all was good. If not then I would weigh their next offerings more carefully and only buy those that suit my tastes.

If Lord of the Rings ended with aliens killing the entire cast before Frodo had a chance to destroy the One Ring, I can guarantee you I would not be rereading Lord of the Rings, no matter how good the journey. We are not all you in how we judge entertainment. You pretty much just outlined that with your speech about subjectivity and how it doesn't rate high on your your "rant list".

So given a situation you cannot control you think people should rage a weeks or months later? You rate an ending of a video game what as far as life altering events on a 1 to 10 scale? Can we agree it should be a minor issue for most? I can't even rate it above getting a cavity or getting yelled at by someone in real life. A car tire flat is more deflating. Getting turned down by a girl is much worse. A game ending shouldn't bother much at all. All of that comes with a caveat even if you think it is worth rage then how much is punishing yourself when you just won't let go of it? You have the choice.

[InvincibleHero]

BobSmith101 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...
I don't get the I was 99% satisfied people then go into rage over a small part of the game. Yeah a bad ending isn't fun, but isn't something that rates high on my rant and rave list. In the past, I just moved onto my next game because I realize the game is the maker's POV not mine. If it entertained me then all was good. If not then I would weigh their next offerings more carefully and only buy those that suit my tastes.

Imagine you had sex with a really hot girl. Then you look down and discover she has an STD. Was the steamy sex still worth it ?

Doesn't change how good it was up until that point.  I'd have to qualify it first with how hot, who was it, and what STD before I could truly answer. IT's rhetorical BTW please don't qualify it. It would be TLDR

[Torrible]

BobSmith101 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...
I don't get the I was 99% satisfied people then go into rage over a small part of the game. Yeah a bad ending isn't fun, but isn't something that rates high on my rant and rave list. In the past, I just moved onto my next game because I realize the game is the maker's POV not mine. If it entertained me then all was good. If not then I would weigh their next offerings more carefully and only buy those that suit my tastes.

Imagine you had sex with a really hot girl. Then you she has an STD. Was the steamy sex still worth it ?

Imagine you had sex with a really hot girl.  Then you discover look down and discover that you have been lightly scratched. 
Was the steamy sex still worth it ? Oh yes.

[Il Divo]

InvincibleHero wrote...

So given a situation you cannot control you think people should rage a weeks or months later? You rate an ending of a video game what as far as life altering events on a 1 to 10 scale? Can we agree it should be a minor issue for most? I can't even rate it above getting a cavity or getting yelled at by someone in real life. A car tire flat is more deflating. Getting turned down by a girl is much worse. A game ending shouldn't bother much at all. All of that comes with a caveat even if you think it is worth rage then how much is punishing yourself when you just won't let go of it? You have the choice.

Thy were able to control it enough for Bioware to take notice. But ultimately, what  should they be doing with their time instead? Most here if they loved the endings would probably just be replaying the series instead of cursing Bioware's name, so really they're trading one Mass Effect-related activity for another. I'd argue that most fans who rage don't really see this as punishing themselves.

Remember, ME3's main fault isn't having a terrible ending, which are a dime a dozen, but for serving as a terrible ending to a well-loved 100+ hour journey which cost a good amount of money to experience. Investment is the primary factor which results in rage. That goes for most anything.

Rage = [(enjoyment of the product) * (cost of enjoying product) * (disappointment in product)] / (rationality of the individual)

Mathematically, at least.

Edit: Forgot a term.

Modifié par Il Divo, 14 avril 2012 - 12:49 .

[Torrible]

SirVincealot wrote...

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

Yeah, the WHOLE story is actually full of plot holes, from the very first mission in ME1 onwards. Proving the existance of the Reapers, for one thing: apparently there is no video or audio available anywhere even though Saren and Sovereign are rampaging through the universe. [snip]The ending is simply on par with the rest of the games - no more, no less.

+1

I hope you realise it was sarcarsm.

[aries1001]

First, about the love or liking of Patrick Weekes. Yes, he's probably a good writer, but do know who his boss is? His wife. He writes the stories and she corrects them so they make sense? both from a story perspective and in terms of grammar and such.

As for the endings themselves in ME3, the 10 point list give here by a forumite sums the problems up nicely, I find. However, as Patrick Weekes said in the informal fan interview with him at PAX East 2012, not all died in the Citadel, and FTL travel still will be possible, just as much more slower speed than with the Mass Relays.

As for the ending themselves so far I've only sadly seem them explained on various youtubes account and having them sort of spoiled for me watching this as well as reading every thread here about the endings. As I watched the endings, I felt sad, moved and touched. However, I also had to ask myself this very question:

Why is this ghost in the machine there? Who is he? Some have suggested it is or could be Harbinger? Or maybe some sort of King of the Reapers? But why would the Reapers have a King? And the explanation given as to why the Reapers do what they do sound very - ehm - cliché and overused to me. And, does not fit into the ME lore in any way, shape or form. It is, in fact a story that goes back to Frankenstein's Monster in which the created monster, turn on its creator, Frankenstein. And to prevent this, this kid? did what he did. What is he then? God? or a very intelligent and ancient being that's designed the universe or something like this?

Notice the words I use when describing this; I've done this not to start a religous argument here, but to point out that I do find that the introduction of the starkid? introduces a religous thinking in the ME universe e.g. someone has created the Reapers for a purpose, it seems. And to me, this goes against every tone in the ME universe that I've found to be free of organized religious beliefs, learning how to live with differences and advocating that diversity among the space races are - good. And then, we get the ending to turn everyone into the same...

Based on this, I can certainly see why people are upset, bewildered and confused as the ending choices in the final sequences goes against every thing that Shepard has been about so far. (as I see it anyway).

[shinyelf]

I enjoyed the game.
I also enjoye the ending.
I dont see any need to explain why as this is more like an emotional response.

Please hate harder

[zartan88]

I also liked the ending - however I do think it needs to be clarified quite a bit.

I had more problems understanding why my LI (who was part of my squad charging the beam) left me for dead and was on board the Normandy at the end.
Also lacking was War Assets showing in the game - Elcor and Rachni for example.

I'm looking forward to the extended cut - but Bioware will have to do a pretty good job to stop all the hate directed at them at the moment.

One last point - if they changed the ending, they would also have to change other parts in the game as well. No one seems to mention the dream sequences where Shepard sees the child, for me, the Star Kid at the end is only how Shepard sees him/it - he could be really talking to anything.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion - but so many of them seem to think that abuse is the best way to get their’s over.

[Zebron is reaL]

While I don't share your opinion, OP, I am glad that you liked what you got.

[macrocarl]

OP you're not alone at all, just a minority on BSN right now.

[Overule]

So your reasons for loving it are.. what exactly? Epic & final? How was it epic? You fight tooth and nail to sit through a dialogue wheel scene before doddering down one of three pathways to commit suicide. It was anticlimactic if anything.

And final? Well... yeah it's THE END. It's kind of obligated to be final...

[Thoughts_My_Aim]

Stonetwister wrote...

Wow, I have to be in a SERIOUS minority here.  I heard so much bad stuff about the ending that I was braced for something horrible, but I really liked it!  I chose the "synthesis" ending and it seemed very epic and very final.  Sure, a big party on board the Normandy with Shepard and a suitless Tali holding hands would have been better, but it was still very epic and satisfying.  To be honest, now that I have experienced it, I am not sure what all the hate is about.  I have been playing video games since Atari and the Mass Effect trilogy is without a question my favorite game of all time.  My hat is off to the finest development crew out there.

Glad you liked the ending

For what it's worth, I think that a lot of the anger with the ending comes from the fact that many people didn't get an ending which they thought fit the game that they had been playing. It doesn's matter whether there are three endings or three thousand, what matters is getting an ending which you think makes sense for the game you played.

I think the basic problem with the ending of ME3 is that it's far too specific, so while it fits some people's games (as it did yours), and clearly fits Default Shepherd, for a lot of people it was - as one reviewer put it - the conclusion to a story that wasn't being told.

To put it another way, I think it was like being in a tabletop RPG with a really railroady GM, if you were planning on going along with the GM's plans anyway, you won't have a problem, it's if you were trying to do something else you have an issue.

[TheRealJayDee]

Gilliy wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Those who like the ending are cool with plot holes/gaps/inconsistencies... nothing wrong with that.

Some fans have lower standards than others...

This. Do you see this? This statement above me pisses me off. Just because someone doesn't instantly loath something the way you did does by no means mean they have lower standards, or a lower iq, or a lower what ever it is that you've decided is the insult of the moment.

He doesn't say you are dumb if you liked the ending. He just states that people who like the ending do it despite of the major problems it has. Like, well, you.

Gilliy wrote...

It is perfectly alright for someone to have liked the endings. Hell, knowing and loving and playing all three games since release -- I liked the ending.

Does that mean I agree with how they were presented? No. It means I didn't hate it. I liked what they were trying to portray. Mind you, it wasn't done very well and there are a lot of things that could and should have been done differently. That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it.

You like it despite it's obvious shortcomings. Some don't. It's that easy.

[Thoughts_My_Aim]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

He doesn't say you are dumb if you liked the ending. He just states that people who like the ending do it despite of the major problems it has. Like, well, you.

He says you have lower standards if you liked the ending, which is still an insult.

Liking something despite its problems doesn't mean you have lower standards, it means you have *different* standards. Perhaps, for example, the plot holes don't bother some people because they don't think the plot was ever that much good in the first place (this would mean they had "higher" standards).

[XTR3M3]

I am glad you liked it OP. I wish I could have.

[AlanC9]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Icemix wrote...

In any other game or a movie yes, but that does not slide with ME. We forge our own story, with limits of course. They said our decisions would matter, they don't. They said that our actions will define a somewhat different ending according to said decisions, they don't. We don't have to cut ourselfs over it, but we will damn well damand what they promised and advertised, and still they fail to provide because they will not admit that they messed up.

They write every option and they did give three choices. They are modified by the EMS so they have at least done the minimum to satisfy that. (Note doesn't make it great either).Yeah I can empathize with people believing they were mislead in some way about the endings.

I've been meaning to start a topic where people post what they expected from ME's ending and why they expected it. I guess things have cooled down here about as much as they're going to, so maybe the time is now.

Personally, I expected Bio to do what they always do -- while decisions leave a mark on the game-world, all PCs get funneled into a very similar point where they have a few really big choices. The choices take effect, and then it's roll the credits time. That's exactly what I got. The only difference is that Bio typically has a gameplay interval between final choices and the resolution, and they didn't do that this time. Even that isn't unprecedented -- it's exactly how ToB worked, for instance.

I'm only speaking of the substance here. ME3 is unusually weak on explaining what happens past the ending, even by Bio standards. (Bio's often been poor at that.) But this is presumably what the EC's for.

[AJRimmsey]

Thoughts_My_Aim wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

He doesn't say you are dumb if you liked the ending. He just states that people who like the ending do it despite of the major problems it has. Like, well, you.

He says you have lower standards if you liked the ending, which is still an insult.

Liking something despite its problems doesn't mean you have lower standards, it means you have *different* standards. Perhaps, for example, the plot holes don't bother some people because they don't think the plot was ever that much good in the first place (this would mean they had "higher" standards).

you are not supposed to notice the insulting,as he thinks its masterfully hidden in sub text.

you went and spoiled it now,you happy ?

[AlanC9]

Thoughts_My_Aim wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

He doesn't say you are dumb if you liked the ending. He just states that people who like the ending do it despite of the major problems it has. Like, well, you.

He says you have lower standards if you liked the ending, which is still an insult.

Liking something despite its problems doesn't mean you have lower standards, it means you have *different* standards. Perhaps, for example, the plot holes don't bother some people because they don't think the plot was ever that much good in the first place (this would mean they had "higher" standards).

That's kind of how I feel about the "space magic" complaints. The time to complain about that was a couple of games ago.