554 réponses à ce sujet

[TNT1991]

Karrie788 wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Garrus felt a lot more forced in Mass Effect 2 honestly. I always got the feeling the writer's really didn't know what to do with him in that game and just stuck him there because the fans liked him. Since he has like two conversations and (IMHO) one of the weakest loyalty missions in the game that is just a rehash of his mission in Mass Effect.

He was much better in Mass Effect 3.

Agreed. I love his character but his evolution was... kinda weird. He earned some big Garrus-Stu points in ME2. And as you said this whole "vengeance" theme got old quick.

*Fixed*

[Isichar]

IanPolaris wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Yes, Wrex, Tali, Garrus, Ashley, Kaidan can all die. Everyone in ME2 can die as well. Isnt it odd that she is the only one who cant die?

I like her character, I just think she should have been mortal like every other member of my squad through the 1st 2 games is all.

Again I liked Liara very much, I just think there should have been a scenario where she didnt survive.

I guess I'm just struggling to understand your perspective so please bear with me.  The way I saw it, party members can only actually die at very, very specific plot points in the trilogy.  Some might have alternate ways (ignore Tali's quest in ME2 it seems), but it seems to me that you're upset that Liara wasn't an active party member in ME2 and hence avoided the potential meat grinder that was the Suicide Mission.

It seems this situation also applies to fans that dislike both Ashley and Kaiden, correct?

Basically people want to be able to kill Liara because they are jealous of her screentime. typical really.

Disagree.  A lot of people don't like what they regard as heavy handed writing and Liara (even though I like her) is protected/favored by some very heavy handed writing.  The whole POINT of mass effect was that Commander Shepard was "ours" (as in the player's) and his or her outlook and impact on the galaxy should likewise be OURS.  That means that if we were a jerk to Liara in ME1 (which was easy to do), it should be reflected in ME2 and ME3...and our LI (if any) should be the one giving our Shepard advice/support not Liara (unless of course she is our Shep's LI of course).

-Polaris

All i saw was "Everyone else can die, so Liara should be killable too" in the post the GM is responding to. In terms of having our previous actions reflected in ME3... did it ever really matter much anyways? =/

[Karrie788]

TNT1991 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Garrus felt a lot more forced in Mass Effect 2 honestly. I always got the feeling the writer's really didn't know what to do with him in that game and just stuck him there because the fans liked him. Since he has like two conversations and (IMHO) one of the weakest loyalty missions in the game that is just a rehash of his mission in Mass Effect.

He was much better in Mass Effect 3.

Agreed. I love his character but his evolution was... kinda weird. He earned some big Garrus-Stu points in ME2. And as you said this whole "vengeance" theme got old quick.

*Fixed*

... I can't believe I didn't think of that.

[Esquin]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Yes, Wrex, Tali, Garrus, Ashley, Kaidan can all die. Everyone in ME2 can die as well. Isnt it odd that she is the only one who cant die?

I like her character, I just think she should have been mortal like every other member of my squad through the 1st 2 games is all.

Again I liked Liara very much, I just think there should have been a scenario where she didnt survive.

I guess I'm just struggling to understand your perspective so please bear with me.  The way I saw it, party members can only actually die at very, very specific plot points in the trilogy.  Some might have alternate ways (ignore Tali's quest in ME2 it seems), but it seems to me that you're upset that Liara wasn't an active party member in ME2 and hence avoided the potential meat grinder that was the Suicide Mission.

It seems this situation also applies to fans that dislike both Ashley and Kaiden, correct?

I think he just has a bit of an issue with Liara being the only character who can make it through all the games without a scratch. Not only that but she's the only character you're forced to interact with in all 3 games. But I'm with you. I don't think it's that big of an issue.

[Barquiel]

Sparatus wrote...

The one with a comic series, another comic, a toy, an entire DLC built around her and her romance, and a major role in two of the games. Compared to Garrus who has always just kind of been there and never had a major impact on the plot.

According to several interviews, they made LOTSB because of fan demand...and not because Casey Hudson or Mac Walters love Liara (Jack is Casey Hudson's favorite characters as revealed in the CE Strat guide, and Mac Walters favorites are TIM and Aria). Garrus (who has a comic and a toy as well) is also a squadmate in all three games because of fan demand. They're both Shepard's canon buddys. I really don't see the difference. And every RPG has characters who are more important to the plot than others. Do you think Morrigan or Bastila were writer's pets?

[Calamity]

Xion66 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I don't care if Liara is a writers pet, she is still my fav character in the series

True, anyone who's a fan of her just wants to see more of her, but someone who isn't really into Liara/doesn't care about her just thinks:

"Why the **** is she always there, can't Tali or Wrex come hold my hand?'

Or Garrus

[77boy84]

Vexille wrote...

77boy84 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

77boy84 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

I think we're more surprised (or worst case scenario irritated) that this scenario is possible with pretty much every other squadmate from ME1, except for her. And the fact she keeps showing up at Shep's cabin.

Okay thanks.  Though I don't know if I'd say I was surprised.  The fact that she only had an ancillary role in the second game is really the reason why.  Since she wasn't a party member, she's not vulnerable to dying on the Suicide Mission at the end of the second team.


I can understand if people groan because they don't like the character and in comes Liara.  Did you find this to be less of an issue in the previous two games?  (with any character, not just Liara)

Actually ME2 was the worst of all three IMO in that regard. My sig pretty much sums up who my fav squadmate is, but the fact remains that you are best buddies with him at the beginning of ME2 even if you were a complete d*ck to him in ME1. Same with Liara. I was absolutely awful with her in ME1, and yet she hugs me upon reuniting? I honestly disliked it. ME1 was ok because I could insult everybody if I wanted. ME2 was bad about that. ME3 was... okay for me, but I can see why some people could still be annoyed.

Yeah, this was a problem with meeting all the old squadmates, I think. You can treat Tali terribly in ME1, not give her the data, and then ****** her off when you meet her the first time in ME2, and she'll STILL be friendly and happy to be with Shepard again.

ANd you can still romance her.

Yeah, that really bugged me.
I wont begrude Bioware for putting in a fan favorite, but seriously... Tali in ME2 is the only character that really felt forced, imo. Sure, Liara had a lot of screen time, but never really felt forced.

I think the arguement can be made that Garrus, Liara, and Tali are the three writer's pets (Tali more of a... fan pet? I don't think she's there because the writers like her, but because so many fans do, maybe that counts) of the series, and at the end of the day, it kind of did hurt things.

I liked all three of them, but really, we needed some of the ME2 people as squad mates in there too. Focusing just on half of the ME1 squadmates was a bad move. They're cool and all, but the ME2 people are just as cool, and some of them deserved a place on the normandy damnit.

I actually really agree with that. Liara and Garrus were writers pets, but Tali was likely FAR more popular then expected. If Tali or Garrus were immortal I would be arguing the same points here, the only reason Liara stands out as a writers pet MORE to me is because of the extra plot armor.

I still dont kno why space gypsy Tali got so popular

Yeah, maybe they could have given the player an option to lose her or something, but I'm not sure if that would make anything better.

I don't really have a problem with Bioware having pet characters, I just didn't like how they focused on the three at the expense of the other characters. A lot of people say ME2 was largely irrelevant, and well, it doesn't happen when all the squadmates are basically written out of the main game.

I'll never understand how Tali got so popular. She was one of the flattest squadmates of the six in ME1, and really was only there to exposit on the Quarians. Her massive popularity will be the biggest mystery for me.

[PorcelynDoll]

Calamity wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I don't care if Liara is a writers pet, she is still my fav character in the series

True, anyone who's a fan of her just wants to see more of her, but someone who isn't really into Liara/doesn't care about her just thinks:

"Why the **** is she always there, can't Tali or Wrex come hold my hand?'

Or Garrus

Yes please

I would get behind replacing Liara with Aria any day.

[Karrie788]

Sparatus wrote...

Garrus ain't got no hands. He got claws.

You be clawholding.

Actually he has hands, but he doesn't have nails.

[Surprise Guest]

Through the whole story of ME3 I couldn't understand why they bothered with the cerberus/TIM stuff. They were far from compelling and just seemed like a convenient way to add a greater variety of things to shoot. TIM's whole "dude we can totally control them" didn't feel like it had much conviction so it seemed awkward when he popped up in the ending.

[Calamity]

Mr.House wrote...

I still want to know why Joker is not on this list, If Liara is there, Joker should also be there. Or this this another "I hate Liara and I want my fav character being shoved in my face?" thread that we have had many times?

I didnt see joker shoved in my face on every cutscene.

[Vexille]

Sparatus wrote...

Basically, I love when a character grows throughout a series, in a logical manner. Liara really doesn't really get this. It just feels like the writers shoehorned her into roles to keep her relevant to the plot.

Which is why Wrex is my favorite character. He gets the best character development in the series, actually grows as a character, and doesn't abandon his responsibility to go do stuff with Shepard.

Barquiel wrote...
 Do you think Morrigan or Bastila were writer's pets?

Morrigan is definately a writer's pet.

If I remember right you could tell Morrigan to get lost at any time

[Karrie788]

Sparatus wrote...

Speaking of Garrus, I thought his romance in 3 was very sweet. Too bad they didn't make him romanceable in 3 for whatever reason if you didn't do it in 2.

The dipsmooch on top of the Presidium was pure win. The whole romance was fantastic. Can't complain there.

I think it's logical, actually. In ME2 when you start flirting with him he's initially very hesitant about it until you insist that you really want to get it on with him. In ME3 his homeworld is burning and the entire galaxy is going to hell, I don't think he has the time to think about...

... wait. He hooks up with Tali if you don't romance him or her...

Ok, I've got nothing.

[TNT1991]

PorcelynDoll wrote...

Calamity wrote...

Or Garrus

Yes please

 

[PorcelynDoll]

TNT1991 wrote...

PorcelynDoll wrote...

Calamity wrote...

Or Garrus

Yes please

 
*snip*

I might just love you :happy:

[Surprise Guest]

Calamity wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I still want to know why Joker is not on this list, If Liara is there, Joker should also be there. Or this this another "I hate Liara and I want my fav character being shoved in my face?" thread that we have had many times?

I didnt see joker shoved in my face on every cutscene.

I was really annoyed that they focused on him in the ending, as I found him irritating all through ME3. This may be because I still blame him for Shepard's death at the start of ME2, because you know, it's his fault.

[Karrie788]

TNT1991 wrote...

PorcelynDoll wrote...

Calamity wrote...

Or Garrus

Yes please

 

*snip*

BWAHAHA! This killed me.

[Barquiel]

Calamity wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I still want to know why Joker is not on this list, If Liara is there, Joker should also be there. Or this this another "I hate Liara and I want my fav character being shoved in my face?" thread that we have had many times?

I didnt see joker shoved in my face on every cutscene.

I did. The Liara flashback is a bug. Joker is one of the three most important persons for every single Shepard in the universe

[walrusVI]

Mr.House wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Joker is not a side character at all, he is one of the major characters in the whole series.

-Who was the one who killed Sovie? Joker
-Who is the reason why SHepard died? Joker
-Who did TIM get to pilot the ship? Joker
-Who unshackled EDI and savedt he ship? Joker
-Who flew the Normandy during the suicide mission? Joker
-Who helped Shepard survive the suicide mission? Joekr witht he help of two squadmates
-Who saved Shepard in Arrival? Joker
-Who got Shepard off Earth? Joker
-Who flew you for the whole war? Joker
-Who helped you during the Rannoch Reaper battle? Joker
-Who was flyign the ship leading the fleets in Sol? Joker


Ya that's a minor character all right. As for the "you can ignore Joker and Garrus except for important bits. you can do the something to Liara. The only thing I agree with you is the flashback, but ;et's be real, ME2 Li's got screwed anyways. Also I stopped reading because you said Liara can't die, that's false. It's been proven she can.

Except you're not forced on a friendship with Joker.

Oh realy? Then why was my Shepard happy to see Joker after Freedoms Progress? Why is my Shepard happy to hear Jokers voice before Mars? Yo can treat him like crap after but first it's BUDDY OL PAL! Same with Garrus and Liara in ME2 and ME3.

You're right. I guess I felt it more with Liara because she kept coming to Shep's cabin. But you're right on that one.

And Garrus comforts you after Mordins death, not Liara though I would have prefered Liara.

Garrus knew Mordin, Liara didn't. It makes sense for him to comfort you. Liara would  just be all "sorry about that guy dying".