554 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

I would have moved the Time capsule and mind meld scenes to "romance only" and maybe change the dialogue a bit when you talk to her on the citadel. The way she says, "Just....Friends" really feels awkward.

I didn't mind the just friends (I was worried I was going to somehow lead to a romance which I didn't want to do) part.

It *does* seem to me that Liara has a crush on Shepard, which I got out of her mind meld on Earth. Although I thought it was actually kind of sweet because I got along well with her and I sort of took it as a gesture that it was her showing Shepard that she just wanted to show him how much he meant to her.

I think the Time Capsule is a Liara thing to do as well, but yeah it can only really be presented as friends. I can't remember if you can tell her not to bother at the time, but it's not a gesture that should be mandatory.

[ShdwFox7]

Senario wrote...

Oh by no means did I try to imply it should be in the upcoming DLC. I was just a bit peeved before about how Liara feels forced in ME3...Seeing others agree with me just reminds me of how many times I thought that during the game.

I just want them to work on the ending dlc, thats it. Minor complaints or problems are minor at this point. And unimportant.

Agreed, despite even my previous post with complaints against Liara I wouldn't change that aspect of the game. It's a minor issue at best. The relationship with Liara is just odd more so than it is obtrusive.

Modifié par ShdwFox7, 15 avril 2012 - 09:41 .

[dgcatanisiri]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I would have moved the Time capsule and mind meld scenes to "romance only" and maybe change the dialogue a bit when you talk to her on the citadel. The way she says, "Just....Friends" really feels awkward.

I didn't mind the just friends (I was worried I was going to somehow lead to a romance which I didn't want to do) part.

It *does* seem to me that Liara has a crush on Shepard, which I got out of her mind meld on Earth. Although I thought it was actually kind of sweet because I got along well with her and I sort of took it as a gesture that it was her showing Shepard that she just wanted to show him how much he meant to her.

I think the Time Capsule is a Liara thing to do as well, but yeah it can only really be presented as friends. I can't remember if you can tell her not to bother at the time, but it's not a gesture that should be mandatory.

Honestly, I really get VERY uncomfortable with the mind meld on Earth, both in the thinking of my Shepard and me as a player. My Shepard for the RP'ing I mentioned before of him not considering her a close friend, not having forgiven her for handing him over to Cerberus and, by extention, being the cause of him being resurrected, which he has some serious problems with, and because of that crush - letting her join minds with Shepard, which has been well established as being part of asari sex, when she is not the love interest sends the wrong message, and myself because I see her behavior over the course of ME3 making her seem as a stalker obsessed with Shepard, given how I role-play him, and because I get that feeling, I get the fear that she takes the opportunity to impregnate herself with Shepard's child. I like to think better, but it freaks me out that the idea even somewhat seriously crosses my mind, and it makes me absolutely refuse to do it.

For the most part, though, the time capsule scene doesn't bother me. I'm kinda bugged by how it ends in what looks like a romantic moment waiting to happen, but it at least keeps waiting, which makes it a little better.

[Raizo]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I would have moved the Time capsule and mind meld scenes to "romance only" and maybe change the dialogue a bit when you talk to her on the citadel. The way she says, "Just....Friends" really feels awkward.

I didn't mind the just friends (I was worried I was going to somehow lead to a romance which I didn't want to do) part.

It *does* seem to me that Liara has a crush on Shepard, which I got out of her mind meld on Earth. Although I thought it was actually kind of sweet because I got along well with her and I sort of took it as a gesture that it was her showing Shepard that she just wanted to show him how much he meant to her.

I think the Time Capsule is a Liara thing to do as well, but yeah it can only really be presented as friends. I can't remember if you can tell her not to bother at the time, but it's not a gesture that should be mandatory.

I've never really liked Liara and a large part of the reason why I will never warm up to the character is because I constantly feel the charcter is being forced down my throat. Liara is the very definition of a 'Writer's Pet'. I don't mind that I'm forced to have her as a squadmate in ME3 and I don't really mourn the fact that I can't kill her but I don't like the fact that she is constantly in Shepard's cabin, I don't like the Time Capsule scene  and I hate the borderline sexual mind meld that she shares with Shepard in London. I also don't like the fact that Liara's father refers to Shepard as Liara's 'boyfriend' even though I have never romanced Liara and never, ever will. These scenes imply a certain amount of intimacy with the character that many gamers probably don't have and it really shatters the illusion that we ever had any choices in these ME games.

Modifié par Raizo, 15 avril 2012 - 11:08 .

[Ares91]

I agree 1for the most part with Raizo. I am also so tired of them shoving her down my throats. I romanced Miranda dont show me Liara when I die. I mean I have nothing against her I actually like the character just sick of her getting all the attention.Especially with the ending cut scene, for the love of god dont show me Liara's face I romanced Miranda not Liara!

[troyk2027]

I agree about Liara. It was getting annoying having here bust into my cabin between every mission, at least you can ignore other characters if you don't like them, Liara is forced into being your best friend no matter what. Some of those scenes should be romance only.

[sistersafetypin]

Mr.House wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I don't care if Liara is a writers pet, she is still my fav character in the series

True, anyone who's a fan of her just wants to see more of her, but someone who isn't really into Liara/doesn't care about her just thinks:

"Why the **** is she always there, can't Tali or Wrex come hold my hand?'

And I went through the same crap in ME2 with beign forced into Cerberus, Tali thinknig I'm her friend even if I was rude to her in ME and even refusing to give her data, being railroaded into so many things it made me want to smash my controller. Collector ship anyone? Also don't get me started on the Joker crap, he get's you kileld and you never once give him crap for it, ev en if you can treat him like crap hat argument is never touched and not to mention liek Liara, Joker is put back into friend zone in each game, and he also has the same plot armor as Liara, so why is he not on your list? He is just as much as a writers pet then the others you listed.

I'm with House completely on this one. If I almost want to bold the whole damn thing

[troyk2027]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I don't care if Liara is a writers pet, she is still my fav character in the series

True, anyone who's a fan of her just wants to see more of her, but someone who isn't really into Liara/doesn't care about her just thinks:

"Why the **** is she always there, can't Tali or Wrex come hold my hand?'

And I went through the same crap in ME2 with beign forced into Cerberus, Tali thinknig I'm her friend even if I was rude to her in ME and even refusing to give her data, being railroaded into so many things it made me want to smash my controller. Collector ship anyone? Also don't get me started on the Joker crap, he get's you kileld and you never once give him crap for it, ev en if you can treat him like crap hat argument is never touched and not to mention liek Liara, Joker is put back into friend zone in each game, and he also has the same plot armor as Liara, so why is he not on your list? He is just as much as a writers pet then the others you listed.

I'm with House completely on this one. If I almost want to bold the whole damn thing

So since they made a mistake in ME2 it's ok to repeat it in ME3? Atleast you can ignore those characters, Liara barges into your cabin repeatedly, and you're forced to be BFFs. You can be an ass to Joker and Tali.

Modifié par troyk2027, 16 avril 2012 - 12:48 .

[Ares91]

But Joker isn't a romancable character. And certainly not a "forced" romance character.
Also if you talk to Joker after the Thessia mission the "Joker got you killed" argument does come up.
And Again I like her just don't force me to bang her.

[Aggie Punbot]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Do Mars and Palaven count the same as other levels with forced companions? Vega makes those two as well, and it seems like the reason is more because there's no actual alternative at that time.

Yes, they do. I actually even tried a workaround for the 'no alternative' issue by doing Eden Prime, but the game won't allow you to select Javik as a squadmate until after Palaven. If you were permitted to take only one squadmate with you to Palaven (or even none), I could eliminate one notch from both James and Liara's tally. But you can't, hence they are forced squadmates.

I would like Liara a lot more if she weren't shoved down my throat both in the game and in promotional materials. Where is my Kaidan statue? Or comic? Or t-shirt? Or DLC? Or second comic? Or trailer(s)? The more the company tries to make me think she's the only character in the game than matters (other than Shepard), the more I'm going to dislike her on principle alone.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 16 avril 2012 - 02:18 .

[Senario]

troyk2027 wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I don't care if Liara is a writers pet, she is still my fav character in the series

True, anyone who's a fan of her just wants to see more of her, but someone who isn't really into Liara/doesn't care about her just thinks:

"Why the **** is she always there, can't Tali or Wrex come hold my hand?'

And I went through the same crap in ME2 with beign forced into Cerberus, Tali thinknig I'm her friend even if I was rude to her in ME and even refusing to give her data, being railroaded into so many things it made me want to smash my controller. Collector ship anyone? Also don't get me started on the Joker crap, he get's you kileld and you never once give him crap for it, ev en if you can treat him like crap hat argument is never touched and not to mention liek Liara, Joker is put back into friend zone in each game, and he also has the same plot armor as Liara, so why is he not on your list? He is just as much as a writers pet then the others you listed.

I'm with House completely on this one. If I almost want to bold the whole damn thing

So since they made a mistake in ME2 it's ok to repeat it in ME3? Atleast you can ignore those characters, Liara barges into your cabin repeatedly, and you're forced to be BFFs. You can be an ass to Joker and Tali.

Be a jerk+get one of them killed. KILLED. Oh, and you can get that same person killed TWICE. You have two chances, one in ME2 one in ME3.

[BigZ7337]

This is a great post OP, thanks for writing it. While I like Liara and romanced her in ME1, I liked Tali more and romanced her in ME2. I was planning on continuing the romance with Tali, but she was barely even mentioned for almost 3/4 of the game, while there were amazing interactions with Liara. I ended up going back to her because I was worried there wouldn't be many special moments with Tali (after seeing most of the other ME2 characters be downsized). Then right after you finalize the romance with Liara (which for some reason is impossible to go back on) there really aren't any more interactions with her (before the end) yet there are amazing moments with Tali.

I also agree with you about the role of Cerberus in ME3. I assume that Bioware just wanted a fighting force the player could battle for most of the game that would make the most use of the new engine, but it is just so unbelievable. It just really pulled me out of the game, making it more about them then the Reapers for most of the game, specifically what happened to Harbinger.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Xion66 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I don't care if Liara is a writers pet, she is still my fav character in the series

True, anyone who's a fan of her just wants to see more of her, but someone who isn't really into Liara/doesn't care about her just thinks:

"Why the **** is she always there, can't Tali or Wrex come hold my hand?'

Wrex might accidentally *break* your hand.

[stefer2104]

TJX2045 wrote...

This was a good read.I will say there were a lot more dialogue sequences with Liara than the VS and some of the other LI characters who have been in game since ME1.  That was kinda disappointing.  I was expecting more dialogue sequences.

Me too, I am also upset that Ashley gets a drunk scene, but not kaiden?????

[stefer2104]

Primalrose wrote...

Weren't there alot of fan requests to make Liara more prominent? That's why we got the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC I think? But anyway I couldn't agree more. Kai Leng annoyed me more then Liara and that's saying something for me lol. I shouldn't have to read a graphic novel to understand and like this dude. He felt completely corny and out of place.

Sad part is he wasn't in the comics he was in the novels.  There was a lot information taken from the books and comics and shoved into the game.  I don't know how anyone who didn't read the extra content can understand whats going on?  I was under the impression they were to give you more of a character that people may have liked.  Ex: an Anderson that kicked ass since he was mostly a politician/absent/or on earth for most of the 3 games.

[Flammenpanzer]

Mr.House wrote...

I don't care if Liara is a writers pet, she is still my fav character in the series

From someone who liked Tali from the beginning (but still like Liara as a character), the Mars Mission had Liara come uncomfortably close to Shepard with comments and touchy-feely attitude. It felt somewhat forced, I 'll agree.

[asaiasai]

The same could be said for Morrigan in the Dragon Age series, yet there seems to be little complaint about her plot armor, well except from me anyway. I suppose it is all a matter of who's ox is getting gored. If you like Morrigan, Tali, Garrus. Liara, etc then there is not enough bias in thier favor, but what does one do in regards to the characters they dispise like Morrigan? I will tell you what, they come on the boards express thier issues and then get shouted down by a rabid fan club is what.

I think it is assinine that in an open story like Mass Effect or even DA that any character has plot armor. The writers who apparently feel that a pony tail and a school teacher job will make Jack likeable or less toxic hoping to inspire good will. Alot of opportunities are missed with plot armor like when on Virmire you have to kill Wrex which has the potential to set up a completely different outcome in regards to whether it is prudent to cure the genophage considering the situation when you meet Wrex's replacement.

Plot armor makes telling the story over an arc easier on the writers and the developers, thus probably makes the production easier hence cheaper, but it is a slap in the face of a player expecting a truely unique experience the next play only to be required to interact with a hated and in Morrigan's and Tali's case completely overrated character again looking for the shoot them in the face and toss thier lifeless corpse out an air lock button. Sadly ME and DAO do not have one for a few characters, here is to hoping for one soon.

[tastethepoison]

I feel like they made some things mandatory like this because theres a lot of thing in the series that are really situational, like missed if you dont do specific things. And whoever was in charge felt things such as the liara scenes were to be a part of the baseline ME3 experience.

If they felt things like the capsule scene were particularly important, it would have been cool to have that been a scene that all possible romance characters voice, so that they can still have that "scene" but just interchange the character based on the players choice so that it feels more natural if you didnt romance liara.

Modifié par tastethepoison, 17 avril 2012 - 07:25 .

[MoZedK]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

PLEASE, If you can't kill her because she is the shadow broker. At least let it be possible to send her to Hackett to help with the Crucible. A prothean expert would be perfect in what was considerd a "Prothean Machine".

I think the feedback is valid, but I wouldn't expect any of that stuff to change for ME3 unfortunately. My guess is that the focus for the upcoming DLC will be purely related to the ending.

I understand what he says but just a little insight with what I remeber and my 5 cents, the Crucible is not a Prothean Maschine, as I understand it, it is a Machine that is developed over the cycles and now it is finished with the Protheans but they dident use it.

But yes I do understand and se it as a good point.

[FabricatedWookie]

BadlyBrowned wrote...

Doom Lich wrote...

I think the whole big circle jerk on these forums is getting a bit much. By your definition any main character you don't find enough worth in is a writer's pet, but Liara has just as much purpose in the game as ANY other main character.

Liara has one advantage. 

Plot armor. Not even Shepard has that. 

I am pretty sure resurrection counts as plot armor

[Shallyah]

Just remove Liara or anything that reminds me of her from my goddamn Extended Cut ending. Thank you.

Modifié par Shallyah, 17 avril 2012 - 07:59 .

[Gexora]

Good read, OP. I really enjoyed your points and the way you present them
But I think someone here put it best: ME3 is less your Shepard and much more Bioware's Sheprad (с)

[Stalker]

Shallyah wrote...


Just remove Liara or anything that reminds me of her from my goddamn Extended Cut ending. Thank you.

The whole Extended Cut will be based around her



You just made me generate a terrible idea that this extended cut will be all about the time-capsules and Liara's view of the story...

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 17 avril 2012 - 01:40 .

[Laurencio]

asaiasai wrote...

The same could be said for Morrigan in the Dragon Age series, yet there seems to be little complaint about her plot armor, well except from me anyway. I suppose it is all a matter of who's ox is getting gored. If you like Morrigan, Tali, Garrus. Liara, etc then there is not enough bias in thier favor, but what does one do in regards to the characters they dispise like Morrigan? I will tell you what, they come on the boards express thier issues and then get shouted down by a rabid fan club is what.

I think it is assinine that in an open story like Mass Effect or even DA that any character has plot armor. The writers who apparently feel that a pony tail and a school teacher job will make Jack likeable or less toxic hoping to inspire good will. Alot of opportunities are missed with plot armor like when on Virmire you have to kill Wrex which has the potential to set up a completely different outcome in regards to whether it is prudent to cure the genophage considering the situation when you meet Wrex's replacement.

Plot armor makes telling the story over an arc easier on the writers and the developers, thus probably makes the production easier hence cheaper, but it is a slap in the face of a player expecting a truely unique experience the next play only to be required to interact with a hated and in Morrigan's and Tali's case completely overrated character again looking for the shoot them in the face and toss thier lifeless corpse out an air lock button. Sadly ME and DAO do not have one for a few characters, here is to hoping for one soon.

Honestly. For me, Morrigan was a woman who knew who she was, and knew what she wanted to do. She manipulated you like no other and she spoke with confidence. She was definitely a heavy part of the plot, but she also had the personality for it.

While Liara feels like a teenager who is mostly insecure about herself, kinda grows to sort of kinda accept herself a little, and makes a few bad-ass decisions, but eventually lacks confidence in anything dealing with Shepard. I always saw her as a child.

[lillitheris]

Laurencio wrote...

While Liara feels like a teenager who is mostly insecure about herself, kinda grows to sort of kinda accept herself a little, and makes a few bad-ass decisions, but eventually lacks confidence in anything dealing with Shepard. I always saw her as a child.

My impression is that the asari actually do mature slower. She is young. She's got a lot of knowledge, but her emotional maturity is probably closer to a 20-25-year-old. Plus she's pretty nerdy and awkward. Oh, and a different species.