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Why 'Writer's pets' hurt, and ultimately damage Mass Effect 3


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#76
Vexille

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Rogue Unit wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Joker is not a side character at all, he is one of the major characters in the whole series.

-Who was the one who killed Sovie? Joker
-Who is the reason why SHepard died? Joker
-Who did TIM get to pilot the ship? Joker
-Who unshackled EDI and savedt he ship? Joker
-Who flew the Normandy during the suicide mission? Joker
-Who helped Shepard survive the suicide mission? Joekr witht he help of two squadmates
-Who saved Shepard in Arrival? Joker
-Who got Shepard off Earth? Joker
-Who flew you for the whole war? Joker
-Who helped you during the Rannoch Reaper battle? Joker
-Who was flyign the ship leading the fleets in Sol? Joker


Ya that's a minor character all right. As for the "you can ignore Joker and Garrus except for important bits. you can do the something to Liara. The only thing I agree with you is the flashback, but ;et's be real, ME2 Li's got screwed anyways. Also I stopped reading because you said Liara can't die, that's false. It's been proven she can.

Except you're not forced on a friendship with Joker.

Oh realy? Then why was my Shepard happy to see Joker after Freedoms Progress? Why is my Shepard happy to hear Jokers voice before Mars? Yo can treat him like crap after but first it's BUDDY OL PAL! Same with Garrus and Liara in ME2 and ME3.


And if you dont like Tali and Garrus you never even have to see them in ME3 as they are dead. Liara you are stuck with. Which is the reason so many have issues with her


So your logic is that every character, even plot centric ones, should be able to killed off so their roles can be assumed by your favorite character?


I'm not really sure how you reached that conclusion... Every other recurring character was replaced by a generic character for plot centric stuff if they were killed off (Tali/Raan, Mordin/Salarian doctor, Wrex/Reave, etc etc)

I dont see why we couldnt get a generic Asari to cover anything important Liara was needed for

#77
Mr.House

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Vexille wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Joker is not a side character at all, he is one of the major characters in the whole series.

-Who was the one who killed Sovie? Joker
-Who is the reason why SHepard died? Joker
-Who did TIM get to pilot the ship? Joker
-Who unshackled EDI and savedt he ship? Joker
-Who flew the Normandy during the suicide mission? Joker
-Who helped Shepard survive the suicide mission? Joekr witht he help of two squadmates
-Who saved Shepard in Arrival? Joker
-Who got Shepard off Earth? Joker
-Who flew you for the whole war? Joker
-Who helped you during the Rannoch Reaper battle? Joker
-Who was flyign the ship leading the fleets in Sol? Joker


Ya that's a minor character all right. As for the "you can ignore Joker and Garrus except for important bits. you can do the something to Liara. The only thing I agree with you is the flashback, but ;et's be real, ME2 Li's got screwed anyways. Also I stopped reading because you said Liara can't die, that's false. It's been proven she can.

Except you're not forced on a friendship with Joker.

Oh realy? Then why was my Shepard happy to see Joker after Freedoms Progress? Why is my Shepard happy to hear Jokers voice before Mars? Yo can treat him like crap after but first it's BUDDY OL PAL! Same with Garrus and Liara in ME2 and ME3.


And if you dont like Tali and Garrus you never even have to see them in ME3 as they are dead. Liara you are stuck with. Which is the reason so many have issues with her

And you can ignore her in ME3 just as easly. Also I didn't like garrus and Tali, but I didn't kill them off because I don't kill characters I don't like, I see if they will grow. Which Garrus and Tali did.

#78
somewherenoplace

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Liara is a writer's pet. It didn't bother me because I've always been a big Liara fan. It also didn't bother me because I've read the comics and books.
Where I disagree with you is that she didn't just become some other character out of nowhere. She grew. Her perspective changed after Shepard's death. She got his body back and was a huge part in bringing him/her back to life. With what then happened it made sense that she would want to take on the Shadow Broker and seem a bit hardened and tougher than before. In ME3, that growth in character is more apparent with how she handles all of her responsibility and her overall tone.

Instead of having Liara essentially Nerfed character wise, it would've been better for the game to be delayed until this holiday season and have other characters bumped up in character. The ending and Kai Leng would've benefited from that as well.

I also disagree with how you portrayed Cerberus. In ME1 they were said to be a rogue alliance organization and a lot more than re-skinned mooks. They had a strangely prevalent part in the side questing for being not integral to the main plot.

I think they should've done more with TIM as he actually ended up becoming more one dimensional in ME3. Providing a way for us to take a route that sides with TIM in 3 like they were teasing in 2 would've made more sense and done more justice to his character. Even if he ends up indoctrinated you could still take his place. I think that would've made him feel like more of a writer's pet, but been better for the game. It wouldn't be logistically possible as it would involve providing a major alternate path for most of the game, but It would've truly made him a writer's pet.

Otherwise I agree on most of the other things and a lot of how I wasn't as bothered comes from me knowing a lot of lore from outside the games.

#79
EnvyTB075

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There will always be characters that will always be there, however unlike Liara Joker does not accompany you on missions, he simply flies the Normandy, which some may have forgotton is THE state of the art spaceship, so why wouldn't you put your best pilot in the cockpit?

Liara is just shoehorned in as Sheps bff, and i've never been a Liara fan.

edit: On the subject of Kai Leng, who exactly thought it was a good idea to have space ninjas in the game? I hated him not because of what he did, but because what he was.......a space ninja.....

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 14 avril 2012 - 06:32 .


#80
Karrie788

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Mr.House wrote...
And Garrus comforts you after Mordins death, not Liara though I would have prefered Liara.:P

Well it was about time somebody else comforted Shep after all...

I'm asking again btw, were you referring to Harby's beam when you said that Liara could die?

#81
Rogue Unit

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Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Joker is not a side character at all, he is one of the major characters in the whole series.

-Who was the one who killed Sovie? Joker
-Who is the reason why SHepard died? Joker
-Who did TIM get to pilot the ship? Joker
-Who unshackled EDI and savedt he ship? Joker
-Who flew the Normandy during the suicide mission? Joker
-Who helped Shepard survive the suicide mission? Joekr witht he help of two squadmates
-Who saved Shepard in Arrival? Joker
-Who got Shepard off Earth? Joker
-Who flew you for the whole war? Joker
-Who helped you during the Rannoch Reaper battle? Joker
-Who was flyign the ship leading the fleets in Sol? Joker


Ya that's a minor character all right. As for the "you can ignore Joker and Garrus except for important bits. you can do the something to Liara. The only thing I agree with you is the flashback, but ;et's be real, ME2 Li's got screwed anyways. Also I stopped reading because you said Liara can't die, that's false. It's been proven she can.

Except you're not forced on a friendship with Joker.

Oh realy? Then why was my Shepard happy to see Joker after Freedoms Progress? Why is my Shepard happy to hear Jokers voice before Mars? Yo can treat him like crap after but first it's BUDDY OL PAL! Same with Garrus and Liara in ME2 and ME3.


And if you dont like Tali and Garrus you never even have to see them in ME3 as they are dead. Liara you are stuck with. Which is the reason so many have issues with her


So your logic is that every character, even plot centric ones, should be able to killed off so their roles can be assumed by your favorite character?

Why not? Mordin dies; he gets replaced with Wiks. Tali dies; the other admirals do her job. Wrex dies; you deal with Wreav. There's no reason they couldn't implement something similar with Liara.


And who should fill Liara's role?

Wrex? Wait he might be dead
Garrus? Wait..
Tali? Oh yeah, Suicide Mission
Kaidan? Damn...
Miranda...

Liara was thrown as plot centric character mostly because it cut back on the work Bioware had to do. Thing is, they screwed up with the SM and all the characters from ME1 and ME2 (except the VS and Liara) lost their plot armor. They had no choice but to give Liara her role or face a ****ton of work.

#82
Vexille

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Karrie788 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
And Garrus comforts you after Mordins death, not Liara though I would have prefered Liara.:P

Well it was about time somebody else comforted Shep after all...

I'm asking again btw, were you referring to Harby's beam when you said that Liara could die?


when Liara dies... doesent everyone die? lol

#83
Mr.House

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Karrie788 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
And Garrus comforts you after Mordins death, not Liara though I would have prefered Liara.:P

Well it was about time somebody else comforted Shep after all...

I'm asking again btw, were you referring to Harby's beam when you said that Liara could die?

Yes, which is a death as a certain ems lvl no one coems out of the Normandy, which means Joekr also died and Liara is on the ground, not moving in a big puddle of blood. Ya that's dead to me. Sure you have to work to get it, but it's no diffrent then working to get other characters killed.

#84
Dyorgarel Inkin

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Mr.House wrote...
Oh realy? Then why was my Shepard happy to see Joker after Freedoms Progress? Why is my Shepard happy to hear Jokers voice before Mars?

Because he is a goddamn pilot, one of the best, he saved shepard's butt many times and he trusts him/her.

#85
Vexille

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Rogue Unit wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Joker is not a side character at all, he is one of the major characters in the whole series.

-Who was the one who killed Sovie? Joker
-Who is the reason why SHepard died? Joker
-Who did TIM get to pilot the ship? Joker
-Who unshackled EDI and savedt he ship? Joker
-Who flew the Normandy during the suicide mission? Joker
-Who helped Shepard survive the suicide mission? Joekr witht he help of two squadmates
-Who saved Shepard in Arrival? Joker
-Who got Shepard off Earth? Joker
-Who flew you for the whole war? Joker
-Who helped you during the Rannoch Reaper battle? Joker
-Who was flyign the ship leading the fleets in Sol? Joker


Ya that's a minor character all right. As for the "you can ignore Joker and Garrus except for important bits. you can do the something to Liara. The only thing I agree with you is the flashback, but ;et's be real, ME2 Li's got screwed anyways. Also I stopped reading because you said Liara can't die, that's false. It's been proven she can.

Except you're not forced on a friendship with Joker.

Oh realy? Then why was my Shepard happy to see Joker after Freedoms Progress? Why is my Shepard happy to hear Jokers voice before Mars? Yo can treat him like crap after but first it's BUDDY OL PAL! Same with Garrus and Liara in ME2 and ME3.


And if you dont like Tali and Garrus you never even have to see them in ME3 as they are dead. Liara you are stuck with. Which is the reason so many have issues with her


So your logic is that every character, even plot centric ones, should be able to killed off so their roles can be assumed by your favorite character?

Why not? Mordin dies; he gets replaced with Wiks. Tali dies; the other admirals do her job. Wrex dies; you deal with Wreav. There's no reason they couldn't implement something similar with Liara.


And who should fill Liara's role?

Wrex? Wait he might be dead
Garrus? Wait..
Tali? Oh yeah, Suicide Mission
Kaidan? Damn...
Miranda...

Liara was thrown as plot centric character mostly because it cut back on the work Bioware had to do. Thing is, they screwed up with the SM and all the characters from ME1 and ME2 (except the VS and Liara) lost their plot armor. They had no choice but to give Liara her role or face a ****ton of work.


they could have created a generic NPC for her plot centric points just as they did for EVERY OTHER character who could die.

#86
Mr. Big Pimpin

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Mr.House wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
And Garrus comforts you after Mordins death, not Liara though I would have prefered Liara.:P

Well it was about time somebody else comforted Shep after all...

I'm asking again btw, were you referring to Harby's beam when you said that Liara could die?

Yes, which is a death as a certain ems lvl no one coems out of the Normandy, which means Joekr also died and Liara is on the ground, not moving in a big puddle of blood. Ya that's dead to me. Sure you have to work to get it, but it's no diffrent then working to get other characters killed.

It doesn't actually take away any potential Liara content though, unlike the deaths of the rest of the characters.

#87
Rogue Unit

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Vexille wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Joker is not a side character at all, he is one of the major characters in the whole series.

-Who was the one who killed Sovie? Joker
-Who is the reason why SHepard died? Joker
-Who did TIM get to pilot the ship? Joker
-Who unshackled EDI and savedt he ship? Joker
-Who flew the Normandy during the suicide mission? Joker
-Who helped Shepard survive the suicide mission? Joekr witht he help of two squadmates
-Who saved Shepard in Arrival? Joker
-Who got Shepard off Earth? Joker
-Who flew you for the whole war? Joker
-Who helped you during the Rannoch Reaper battle? Joker
-Who was flyign the ship leading the fleets in Sol? Joker


Ya that's a minor character all right. As for the "you can ignore Joker and Garrus except for important bits. you can do the something to Liara. The only thing I agree with you is the flashback, but ;et's be real, ME2 Li's got screwed anyways. Also I stopped reading because you said Liara can't die, that's false. It's been proven she can.

Except you're not forced on a friendship with Joker.

Oh realy? Then why was my Shepard happy to see Joker after Freedoms Progress? Why is my Shepard happy to hear Jokers voice before Mars? Yo can treat him like crap after but first it's BUDDY OL PAL! Same with Garrus and Liara in ME2 and ME3.


And if you dont like Tali and Garrus you never even have to see them in ME3 as they are dead. Liara you are stuck with. Which is the reason so many have issues with her


So your logic is that every character, even plot centric ones, should be able to killed off so their roles can be assumed by your favorite character?


I'm not really sure how you reached that conclusion... Every other recurring character was replaced by a generic character for plot centric stuff if they were killed off (Tali/Raan, Mordin/Salarian doctor, Wrex/Reave, etc etc)

I dont see why we couldnt get a generic Asari to cover anything important Liara was needed for


Yeah, random Asari Shadowbroker aboard the Normandy, when we have a perfectly established character that is guareenteed to be alive right here. Awesome idea.

And what if people hate generic Asari #34? You're still stuck with a character you dislike and now to have to record 2 sets of dialogue.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 14 avril 2012 - 06:36 .


#88
Karrie788

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Mr.House wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
And Garrus comforts you after Mordins death, not Liara though I would have prefered Liara.:P

Well it was about time somebody else comforted Shep after all...

I'm asking again btw, were you referring to Harby's beam when you said that Liara could die?

Yes, which is a death as a certain ems lvl no one coems out of the Normandy, which means Joekr also died and Liara is on the ground, not moving in a big puddle of blood. Ya that's dead to me. Sure you have to work to get it, but it's no diffrent then working to get other characters killed.

Ok, I see. That's not my issue with Liara though. This is not about her being able to die, it's about having her forced on the player. I admit I don't like her character. Her voice completely throws me off and I don't like her personality. I can actually deal with her being a writer's pet but you can't deny that she is one.

#89
Phl0w

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Liara is cool and all, but when I started ME3 I was honestly expecting my LI tali to be there on earth with me, perhaps a few others. Alas no, I had to endure Liara inflicting a dues ex machina plot device on me as well as herself. While the characters I cared about from the previous installment are nowhere to be found, could have at least left me some emails. Jerks.

#90
Mr.House

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EnvyTB075 wrote...

There will always be characters that will always be there, however unlike Liara Joker does not accompany you on missions, he simply flies the Normandy, which some may have forgotton is THE state of the art spaceship, so why wouldn't you put your best pilot in the cockpit?


You don't have to take Liara on missions except for misisons that make sense for her to be there. Which is Mars, Palavan moon, Thessia and if you have it Edan Prime

Even then on the moon if Garrus is alive, she leaves the mission and I'm forced with James and Garrus. Also Liara is only with you because you only have two party members. It's no diffrent then Miranda and Jacob at teh start of ME2 til lyou got other squadmembers As for thessia and Edan Prime, ya Liara not being there would have made the mission very hard to do.

#91
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*

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[quote]Vexille wrote...

[quote]Rogue Unit wrote...

[quote]Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

[quote]Rogue Unit wrote...

[quote]Vexille wrote...

[quote]Mr.House wrote...

[quote]Karrie788 wrote...

[quote]Mr.House wrote...

*snip* 

[/quote]

*snip* 

[/quote]

 *snip* 

.[/quote]

they could have created a generic NPC for her plot centric points just as they did for EVERY OTHER character who could die.

[/quote]

Really? Do they just make asari who studied the Protheans for 50 years of her life out of thin air?

#92
Vexille

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I think many of the so called Liara "Fans" need to step back and just think about how ridiculous it is to defend Liara's plot armor.

I am not less of a "fan" because I recognize that she is forced on players whether you like her or not. THe extra special treatment She gets compared to other squadmates is more often then not what generates the hate, not the character itself

#93
WindOverTuchanka

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Ack, reformatting, missed some quotation marks

Well, I just like to point out that being a writer's pet can be both a good thing AND a bad thing. If the writer does not love his creation, could he make the audience care?

Xion66 wrote...
Nº1 Kai Leng,
...here he is, awkwardly introduced and injected into highly climatic moments of the storyline, when he should have been nothing more than a cameo, in the most emotionally charged moments, and revelation/confrontation situations he is a placeholder for actual villains that the player would want to face in those determined moments.

 
Well, the problem with Kai Leng was that he was the wrong writer's pet - Drew's. It felt as if ME3 did not care about him enough. He was probably written by multiple people responsible for different chapers, and to each of them he was handed via the design document as 'that villain who ties us in to the novels'. They do recognize this failure - at least Weekes does in his interview. So, yeah, Kai Leng failed because noone on the team loved him enough.

Xion66 wrote... 
Nº2 Liara T'soni  Liara is the definition of a writer's pet.

Liara serves as a plot device and as Shepard's main pillar of strength wether you like it or not, you will get thrown into moving speeches, heartfelt moments, and even almost romantic scenes when you might not even romance her.

  
Oh well, yeah, she is indeed the classical writer's pet, and can theoretically be annoying as such. But hey, she's also the most favourite LI across the board, so being a writer's pet paid off, huh?

My Shepard could never warm up to Liara precisely because she had too many cutscenes and forced 'heartfelt moments', but I managed to roleplay around it. Nothing wrong with having that mildly annoying person who madly craves your attention around, and pretending to be nice to her while secretly eyerolling. I don't need to like everyone in the group, right? 

Now, whether or not she has used up precious development resources at the expense of ME2 characters is another issue entirely. More resources are allocated to characters they like, it's only natural. Mechanically reallocating resources to characters they like less could result in more Kai Lengs.

Xion66 wrote... 
Nº3 The Illusive Man/Cerberus  Remember in ME1 who Cerberus was? A bunch of colour-swapped mooks that you ran over for quick XP.

I enjoy TIM, I really do, I think he invokes the best and worse of mankind in one character, as well as being the perfect counter-point to Shepard, and retaining an antagonist, mysterious facade. Well, I guess Bioware thought the same because the game that should have been about the Reapers sounded more like TIM & the other guys who show up at the end.

Not only does TIM's never ending amount of resources expand, while every project they conduct blows in their faces time after time.

 
Oh, but  I really loved the idea behind these mooks I ran over for quick XP, and therefore made them an (artificially) big deal in my own ME1 playthrough. So I would not be the one to complain about Cerberus.

I do agree that TIM is the writer's pet, and the fact that Cerberus projects fail so mindboggly often does give me pause. But their failure does give shepard something to do, so I can kinda overlook it.

So I'm probably not qualified to be an objective obserevr here. I did dislike the fact that Cerberus was overly vilified in ME3, at the expense of TIM's character development, but I can live with it.

Xion66 wrote... 

Nº4 Earth Kid/Catalawsgeuywrgz
The whole introduction of the character before the twist was already awkward and alien, the dream sequences feel dettached from the narrative-style and the dimensions of the story and Shepard as a character, plus the writing feels really subpar in those moments as well as way too much leaning towards the melodromatic.

 

Catalyst is more like Kai Leng, but on a different level entirely. I believe he fails because noone on the team loves him at all. So while Kai Leng is still a character, thus posessing at least some level of integrity due to his background in the novels, Catalyst is just a failed plot device. He was a narrative construct, an empty placeholder noone cared to fill with personality. If they did not care about him, why should we?

Why do they keep pushing him? Well, I guess he was in design documents,
deeply embedded into the framework, even before they started fleshing everything out. But that's not love, that's just planning, there's no soul there.

Xion66 wrote...  
Thank you for your time.

Hey, thanks for typing all of this out. :)

Modifié par WindOverTuchanka, 14 avril 2012 - 06:44 .


#94
Vexille

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[quote]BringBackNihlus wrote...

[quote]Vexille wrote...

[quote]Rogue Unit wrote...

[quote]Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

[quote]Rogue Unit wrote...

[quote]Vexille wrote...

[quote]Mr.House wrote...

[quote]Karrie788 wrote...

[quote]Mr.House wrote...

*snip* 

[/quote]

*snip* 

[/quote]

 *snip* 

.[/quote]

they could have created a generic NPC for her plot centric points just as they did for EVERY OTHER character who could die.

[/quote]

Really? Do they just make asari who studied the Protheans for 50 years of her life out of thin air?

[/quote]


considering Asari live for a thousand years,I dont think LIara studying them for a whole 50 years is that impressive :P

#95
Mr.House

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Vexille wrote...

I think many of the so called Liara "Fans" need to step back and just think about how ridiculous it is to defend Liara's plot armor.

I am not less of a "fan" because I recognize that she is forced on players whether you like her or not. THe extra special treatment She gets compared to other squadmates is more often then not what generates the hate, not the character itself

So because I believe Joker is a worse writers pet then Liara, that means it's ridculous to state my opinion and defend that Liara while yes is a writers pet is nowhere as bad as Joker?

Modifié par Mr.House, 14 avril 2012 - 06:45 .


#96
Rogue Unit

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Vexille wrote...

I think many of the so called Liara "Fans" need to step back and just think about how ridiculous it is to defend Liara's plot armor.

I am not less of a "fan" because I recognize that she is forced on players whether you like her or not. THe extra special treatment She gets compared to other squadmates is more often then not what generates the hate, not the character itself


I'm not defending her plot amor. I'm arguing against the stupidity of the people arguing that they should be able to kill everyone they don't like so they're never forced to interact wth a disliked character. That's ridiculous.

#97
Blc949

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Shoe horning children into any story sucks. I know for a fact I'm not the only person who groans when they see a kid added into a story.

#98
Vexille

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Rogue Unit wrote...

Vexille wrote...

I think many of the so called Liara "Fans" need to step back and just think about how ridiculous it is to defend Liara's plot armor.

I am not less of a "fan" because I recognize that she is forced on players whether you like her or not. THe extra special treatment She gets compared to other squadmates is more often then not what generates the hate, not the character itself


I'm not defending her plot amor. I'm arguing against the stupidity of the people arguing that they should be able to kill everyone they don't like so they're never forced to interact wth a disliked character. That's ridiculous.




You start by saying you arent defending her plot armor... and then you pretty much defend her plot armor by saying those who dont think she shouldnt have it are stupid.

Modifié par Vexille, 14 avril 2012 - 06:54 .


#99
IanPolaris

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Mr.House wrote...

Vexille wrote...

The Liara defenders bringing up garrus, Tali etc... You are forgetting one thing... LIara CANT DIE.

Stopped reading there, she can in fact die, just like Joker, another writers pet. But of course no one cares about Joker or Garrus, everyone just loves to gang up on Liara. As I said if death is a thing that makes a writers pet then guess what? Liara and Joker are not writers pets. Garrus, Joker and Liara are writers pets, I'm a Liara fan and I even accept the fact she is one. Why you people can't accept the fact that Garrus and Joekr are just boggles the mind. It's like accepting the fact they are writers pets will make you dislike them.


How?  I see no possible way that Liara can die in Mass Effect.  Zero.  None.  That is (suspiciously) unique.
  I happen to like Liara, but she is definately a writer's pet.

-Polaris

#100
Karrie788

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IanPolaris wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Vexille wrote...

The Liara defenders bringing up garrus, Tali etc... You are forgetting one thing... LIara CANT DIE.

Stopped reading there, she can in fact die, just like Joker, another writers pet. But of course no one cares about Joker or Garrus, everyone just loves to gang up on Liara. As I said if death is a thing that makes a writers pet then guess what? Liara and Joker are not writers pets. Garrus, Joker and Liara are writers pets, I'm a Liara fan and I even accept the fact she is one. Why you people can't accept the fact that Garrus and Joekr are just boggles the mind. It's like accepting the fact they are writers pets will make you dislike them.


How?  I see no possible way that Liara can die in Mass Effect.  Zero.  None.  That is (suspiciously) unique.
  I happen to like Liara, but she is definately a writer's pet.

-Polaris

Harby's beam. The one that kills everyone.