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Why 'Writer's pets' hurt, and ultimately damage Mass Effect 3


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#176
TNT1991

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Mr.House wrote...

Really? When? How can I get rid of Garrus that does not invovle him getting killed.




Kill him= don't have to deal with him ever again

Don't kill him= put up with his sh*t in ME3

Sad but true.

It's not really the same for Liara though, if there was an option to kill her before ME3 then I would've taken that option, gladly.

#177
Barquiel

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You forgot Garrus. He has more content/screentime than any other character in the series.

Modifié par Barquiel, 14 avril 2012 - 07:37 .


#178
Karrie788

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Vexille wrote...

joker is also a writers pet, but he has a much more minor role.

Liara is a squaddie who cant die... The only one... writers pet


The game (for better or worse) doesn't really let you drop party members.  I'm just curious, are you suggesting that there should have been a way to kill off Liara for any of the fans that didn't like her?

I think we're more surprised (or worst case scenario irritated) that this scenario is possible with pretty much every other squadmate from ME1, except for her. And the fact she keeps showing up at Shep's cabin.

#179
Vexille

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Mr.House wrote...

Vexille wrote...

The game is about choice, there should have been a choice to not bring LIara, hell attach a negative consequence to it if you want, but there should be choice.

*does not bring Liara to Thessia*
Shepard: How do we unlock this door?
James: I don't know, I aint no Prothean
EDI: It seems we would need an asari.
James: So let's grab one
EDI: That won't work, it needs an asari who knows how to unlock goverment buildings, knows theirs codes ect, someone liek Liara T'Soni
James: Good going Commander, you just screwed us over.
Shepard:....


and why couldnt the ASARI COUNCILAR who sends you there give you access codes?

and why exactly would Liara know how to get inside, she isnt in the government nor does she work at this building... bioware hand waved it

#180
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Barquiel wrote...

You forgot Garrus. He has more content/screentime than any other character in the series.


Not really. He has like two conversations tops in Mass Effect 2 if you don't romance him.

And he can die.

Modifié par Sparatus, 14 avril 2012 - 07:39 .


#181
Karrie788

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Barquiel wrote...

You forgot Garrus. He has more content/screentime than any other character in the series.

... he is optional in ME1, and has two dialogs in ME2 (romance excluded) (damn calibrations). And he can be dead in ME3.

Modifié par Karrie788, 14 avril 2012 - 07:39 .


#182
Dendio1

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In a game that has so many variables cant we have one constant in Liara? Is that so wrong?

#183
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Garrus and Tali don't really compare to Liara IMHO. They are in three games, yes. But they are also very, very optional. Can die. And aren't really forced on you outside of their specific arcs.

Liara is just constantly shoved in my face. And is shoehorned into so many sideplots it gets ridiculous.

#184
Rogue Unit

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Dendio1 wrote...

In a game that has so many variables cant we have one constant in Liara? Is that so wrong?


Yes. Because it's not their favorite character.

#185
Mr.House

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Sparatus wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

You forgot Garrus. He has more content/screentime than any other character in the series.


Not really. He has like two conversations tops in Mass Effect 2 if you don't romance him.

And he can die.


Only at the end of ME2... like Liara can die at the end of ME3. And both die by doing stupid things.

#186
Vexille

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Vexille wrote...

joker is also a writers pet, but he has a much more minor role.

Liara is a squaddie who cant die... The only one... writers pet


The game (for better or worse) doesn't really let you drop party members voluntarily.  So I'm just curious, are you suggesting that there should have been a way to kill off Liara for any of the fans that didn't like her?


Yes, Wrex, Tali, Garrus, Ashley, Kaidan can all die. Everyone in ME2 can die as well. Isnt it odd that she is the only one who cant die?

I like her character, I just think she should have been mortal like every other member of my squad through the 1st 2 games is all.

Again I liked Liara very much, I just think there should have been a scenario where she didnt survive.

Modifié par Vexille, 14 avril 2012 - 07:43 .


#187
TNT1991

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Sparatus wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

You forgot Garrus. He has more content/screentime than any other character in the series.


Not really. He has like two conversations tops in Mass Effect 2 if you don't romance him.

And he can die.



Don't forget that he only gets a 30 second so called "sex" scene in ME3...w/o the sex.  So yeah, Garrus fans got spoiled in ME3. /Sarcasm in bold


#188
Joeybsmooth4

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I did not like the kid. This is a repost of a post I made before.The player does not
know him. All we know is that when given an opportunity to get help he did not
get help. On a narrative level I don't see why the player should care. We just saw a
whole city get blown up , Anderson is leaving us to make sure people on Earth
are ok , and there were a ton of people in that shuttle that just blew up. So
why fixate on him.

As for Shepard, I am hard pressed to find why he was so bent
out of shape about that one child . While war is hell, he has seen many people
die . Some people's Shep even had to watch their friends and family die at the
hands of Slavers .

#189
Mr.House

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Sparatus wrote...

Garrus and Tali don't really compare to Liara IMHO. They are in three games, yes. But they are also very, very optional. Can die. And aren't really forced on you outside of their specific arcs.

Liara is just constantly shoved in my face. And is shoehorned into so many sideplots it gets ridiculous.

Garrus is forced in ME2 and if you want to make sure your fav squadmate does not die in ME2 you need Tali. So you are forced to have two characters you don't like just so you can enjoy your game.  Also you keep saying they can die, yes they can, by making stupid choices and at the end of ME2, just liek with Liara and ME3.

#190
Karrie788

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TNT1991 wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

You forgot Garrus. He has more content/screentime than any other character in the series.


Not really. He has like two conversations tops in Mass Effect 2 if you don't romance him.

And he can die.



Don't forget that he only gets a 30 second so called "sex" scene in ME3...w/o the sex.  So yeah, Garrus fans got spoiled in ME3. /Sarcasm in bold

Aww, come on. His romance in ME3 was absolutely fantastic. :)

#191
Rolling Flame

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TNT1991 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Really? When? How can I get rid of Garrus that does not invovle him getting killed.




Kill him= don't have to deal with him ever again

Don't kill him= put up with his sh*t in ME3

Sad but true.

It's not really the same for Liara though, if there was an option to kill her before ME3 then I would've taken that option, gladly.



So... if the option was available in ME1, you would've taken it.

Despite it meaning that there would be nobody willing to recover Shepard's body from the Shadow Broker, resulting in it being sold to the Collectors, resulting in a failed ME2 playthrough before it even began?

#192
Allan Schumacher

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Karrie788 wrote...

I think we're more surprised (or worst case scenario irritated) that this scenario is possible with pretty much every other squadmate from ME1, except for her. And the fact she keeps showing up at Shep's cabin.


Okay thanks.  Though I don't know if I'd say I was surprised.  The fact that she only had an ancillary role in the second game is really the reason why.  Since she wasn't a party member, she's not vulnerable to dying on the Suicide Mission at the end of the second team.


I can understand if people groan because they don't like the character and in comes Liara.  Did you find this to be less of an issue in the previous two games?  (with any character, not just Liara)

#193
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You know, I'm sensing a whole lot of subjectivity in this thread, from people trying not to look at the issue but defend their characters.

#194
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Allan Schumacher wrote...
I can understand if people groan because they don't like the character and in comes Liara.  Did you find this to be less of an issue in the previous two games?  (with any character, not just Liara)


I found the friendship with Garrus pretty annoying on one of my racist Shepards. I don't really like forced friendships in general.

Vega was perfect since you could tell him to knock it off and keep it strictly professional.

Modifié par Sparatus, 14 avril 2012 - 07:48 .


#195
Mr.House

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TNT1991 wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

You forgot Garrus. He has more content/screentime than any other character in the series.


Not really. He has like two conversations tops in Mass Effect 2 if you don't romance him.

And he can die.



Don't forget that he only gets a 30 second so called "sex" scene in ME3...w/o the sex.  So yeah, Garrus fans got spoiled in ME3. /Sarcasm in bold

Does Garrus have a romance bug? Is Garrus date broken and jarring? No it's not, but it is for Liara.

#196
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[quote]Mr.House wrote...
Don't forget that he only gets a 30 second so called "sex" scene in ME3...w/o the sex.  So yeah, Garrus fans got spoiled in ME3. /Sarcasm in bold

[/quote]Does Garrus have a romance bug? Is Garrus date broken and jarring? No it's not, but it is for Liara.
[/quote]

Garrus gets replaced by Liara in the flashback so...

#197
Karrie788

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

I think we're more surprised (or worst case scenario irritated) that this scenario is possible with pretty much every other squadmate from ME1, except for her. And the fact she keeps showing up at Shep's cabin.


Okay thanks.  Though I don't know if I'd say I was surprised.  The fact that she only had an ancillary role in the second game is really the reason why.  Since she wasn't a party member, she's not vulnerable to dying on the Suicide Mission at the end of the second team.


I can understand if people groan because they don't like the character and in comes Liara.  Did you find this to be less of an issue in the previous two games?  (with any character, not just Liara)

Actually ME2 was the worst of all three IMO in that regard. My sig pretty much sums up who my fav squadmate is, but the fact remains that you are best buddies with him at the beginning of ME2 even if you were a complete d*ck to him in ME1. Same with Liara. I was absolutely awful with her in ME1, and yet she hugs me upon reuniting? I honestly disliked it. ME1 was ok because I could insult everybody if I wanted. ME2 was bad about that. ME3 was... okay for me, but I can see why some people could still be annoyed.

Modifié par Karrie788, 14 avril 2012 - 07:50 .


#198
Mr.House

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[quote]Sparatus wrote...

[quote]Mr.House wrote...
Don't forget that he only gets a 30 second so called "sex" scene in ME3...w/o the sex.  So yeah, Garrus fans got spoiled in ME3. /Sarcasm in bold

[/quote]Does Garrus have a romance bug? Is Garrus date broken and jarring? No it's not, but it is for Liara.
[/quote]

Garrus gets replaced by Liara in the flashback so...

[/quote]That's because Bioware was to lazy to fix an issue with the ME2 LIs thus did not bother making flashback scenes for them. That's not a writing issue, that's a tech issue.

#199
KingKhan03

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

I think we're more surprised (or worst case scenario irritated) that this scenario is possible with pretty much every other squadmate from ME1, except for her. And the fact she keeps showing up at Shep's cabin.


Okay thanks.  Though I don't know if I'd say I was surprised.  The fact that she only had an ancillary role in the second game is really the reason why.  Since she wasn't a party member, she's not vulnerable to dying on the Suicide Mission at the end of the second team.


I can understand if people groan because they don't like the character and in comes Liara.  Did you find this to be less of an issue in the previous two games?  (with any character, not just Liara)


I don't understand the problem with Liara she was close with Shephard and imo always seemed to be in love with him it's only natural that she would want to be around Shephard, you don't have to romance her.

Modifié par KingKhan03, 14 avril 2012 - 07:50 .


#200
TNT1991

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Rolling Flame wrote...

So... if the option was available in ME1, you would've taken it.

Despite it meaning that there would be nobody willing to recover Shepard's body from the Shadow Broker, resulting in it being sold to the Collectors, resulting in a failed ME2 playthrough before it even began?


Yes. Either A) The reapers take over or, most likely, B) Bioware will find another way for all the events to happen in ME2 w/o Liara. Remember, Bioware has space magic:wizard:

So again, yes, I'll take my chances with killing Liara.

Modifié par TNT1991, 14 avril 2012 - 07:50 .