554 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

Karrie788 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

You forgot Garrus. He has more content/screentime than any other character in the series.

... he is optional in ME1, and has two dialogs in ME2 (romance excluded) (damn calibrations). And he can be dead in ME3.

That doesn't matter. Garrus still has more content than Liara.  Liara was sidelined in ME2. Why? So that she'd be in the next game with 100% certainty. Garrus was in all three games (forced in ME2), he has a recruitment and a loyalty mission in ME2...and a full fledged romance. And he is still in ME3 (and he doesn't have less dialogue than Liara in ME3). He can die and has more screentime than Liara...who's the writer's pet again?

Modifié par Barquiel, 14 avril 2012 - 07:52 .

[Rolling Flame]

TNT1991 wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...

So... if the option was available in ME1, you would've taken it.

Despite it meaning that there would be nobody willing to recover Shepard's body from the Shadow Broker, resulting in it being sold to the Collectors, resulting in a failed ME2 playthrough before it even began?

Yes. Either A) The reapers take over or, most likely, Bioware will find another way for all the events to happen in ME2 w/o Liara. Remember, Bioware has space magic. 

So again, yes, I'll take my chances with killing Liara.

Eh, alright then.

I don't know... maybe you'd get to play as the human-Reaper, or something. That'd be a strange twist!

[77boy84]

Karrie788 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

I think we're more surprised (or worst case scenario irritated) that this scenario is possible with pretty much every other squadmate from ME1, except for her. And the fact she keeps showing up at Shep's cabin.

Okay thanks.  Though I don't know if I'd say I was surprised.  The fact that she only had an ancillary role in the second game is really the reason why.  Since she wasn't a party member, she's not vulnerable to dying on the Suicide Mission at the end of the second team.


I can understand if people groan because they don't like the character and in comes Liara.  Did you find this to be less of an issue in the previous two games?  (with any character, not just Liara)

Actually ME2 was the worst of all three IMO in that regard. My sig pretty much sums up who my fav squadmate is, but the fact remains that you are best buddies with him at the beginning of ME2 even if you were a complete d*ck to him in ME1. Same with Liara. I was absolutely awful with her in ME1, and yet she hugs me upon reuniting? I honestly disliked it. ME1 was ok because I could insult everybody if I wanted. ME2 was bad about that. ME3 was... okay for me, but I can see why some people could still be annoyed.

Yeah, this was a problem with meeting all the old squadmates, I think. You can treat Tali terribly in ME1, not give her the data, and then ****** her off when you meet her the first time in ME2, and she'll STILL be friendly and happy to be with Shepard again.

[KingKhan03]

Sparatus wrote...

KingKhan03 wrote...

I don't understand the problem with Liara she was close with Shephard and imo always seemed to be in love with him it's only natural that she would want to be around you don't have to romance her.

Because it's weird if you treated her like doo doo in Mass Effect and didn't do LotSB. I don't dislike the character, but the way she is forced on me in 3 just annoys the hell out of me.

I can see where you're coming from I might be Biased as I romanced her in all 3 games. But meh to each his own she does get alot of screen time but that was a bonus for me lol.

[Mr.House]

77boy84 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

I think we're more surprised (or worst case scenario irritated) that this scenario is possible with pretty much every other squadmate from ME1, except for her. And the fact she keeps showing up at Shep's cabin.

Okay thanks.  Though I don't know if I'd say I was surprised.  The fact that she only had an ancillary role in the second game is really the reason why.  Since she wasn't a party member, she's not vulnerable to dying on the Suicide Mission at the end of the second team.


I can understand if people groan because they don't like the character and in comes Liara.  Did you find this to be less of an issue in the previous two games?  (with any character, not just Liara)

Actually ME2 was the worst of all three IMO in that regard. My sig pretty much sums up who my fav squadmate is, but the fact remains that you are best buddies with him at the beginning of ME2 even if you were a complete d*ck to him in ME1. Same with Liara. I was absolutely awful with her in ME1, and yet she hugs me upon reuniting? I honestly disliked it. ME1 was ok because I could insult everybody if I wanted. ME2 was bad about that. ME3 was... okay for me, but I can see why some people could still be annoyed.

Yeah, this was a problem with meeting all the old squadmates, I think. You can treat Tali terribly in ME1, not give her the data, and then ****** her off when you meet her the first time in ME2, and she'll STILL be friendly and happy to be with Shepard again.

ANd you can still romance her.

[Nightwriter]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

I think we're more surprised (or worst case scenario irritated) that this scenario is possible with pretty much every other squadmate from ME1, except for her. And the fact she keeps showing up at Shep's cabin.

Okay thanks.  Though I don't know if I'd say I was surprised.  The fact that she only had an ancillary role in the second game is really the reason why.  Since she wasn't a party member, she's not vulnerable to dying on the Suicide Mission at the end of the second team.


I can understand if people groan because they don't like the character and in comes Liara.  Did you find this to be less of an issue in the previous two games?  (with any character, not just Liara)

I didn't mind it at all in previous games, because I was still getting a decent amount of content with my preferred love interest.

Essentially, I was fine with BioWare serving the Liara fans a feast while they were still serving me solid meals.

Then they began starving me while continuing to serve the Liara fans feasts. Now I watch them dine on grapes and roast ham and strawberry wine while my stomach slowly digests itself and my gums recede from malnutrition.

[IanPolaris]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

I think we're more surprised (or worst case scenario irritated) that this scenario is possible with pretty much every other squadmate from ME1, except for her. And the fact she keeps showing up at Shep's cabin.

Okay thanks.  Though I don't know if I'd say I was surprised.  The fact that she only had an ancillary role in the second game is really the reason why.  Since she wasn't a party member, she's not vulnerable to dying on the Suicide Mission at the end of the second team.


I can understand if people groan because they don't like the character and in comes Liara.  Did you find this to be less of an issue in the previous two games?  (with any character, not just Liara)

Yes it is less of an issue in the prior two games.  In ME1 you could talk to various squaddies for advice and insight but that was never forced.  You could finish the whole game and not talk to any of them if you desired except for the bare minimums needed with Tali (when you first meet her) or with Garrus and/or Wrex (you didn't have to get both).  In ME1 the only intrusion of this sort was when Liara melded with you (twice) but that was plot essential.  You didn't even have to take her on the Noveria mission and could even kill Benezia before you recuited Liara...and the game accounted for that in Liara's reaction to Shep.  In short ME1 did this almost perfectly.

In ME2 you are only forced to recuit Mordin (and that's pretty plot essential and obvious and well explained), Garrus, and Jack.  Everybody else (even Grunt) is optional.  Of course the suicide mission can get ugly without many of them......but they are optional.  Even then you are only really forced to talk to Miranda, Jacob, and Mordin and then only at first and a little.

In ME3, it seems like Liara is forced on you and seems like a stalker ESPECIALLY if you treated her like dirt in ME1 and ME2.  I personally like Liara so I don't mind, but I can easily see why others do.  She is indeed (or at least seems to be) a writer's pet.

-Polaris

[Allan Schumacher]

Vexille wrote...

Yes, Wrex, Tali, Garrus, Ashley, Kaidan can all die. Everyone in ME2 can die as well. Isnt it odd that she is the only one who cant die?

I like her character, I just think she should have been mortal like every other member of my squad through the 1st 2 games is all.

Again I liked Liara very much, I just think there should have been a scenario where she didnt survive.

I guess I'm just struggling to understand your perspective so please bear with me.  The way I saw it, party members can only actually die at very, very specific plot points in the trilogy.  Some might have alternate ways (ignore Tali's quest in ME2 it seems), but it seems to me that you're upset that Liara wasn't an active party member in ME2 and hence avoided the potential meat grinder that was the Suicide Mission.

It seems this situation also applies to fans that dislike both Ashley and Kaiden, correct?

[Vexille]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

I think we're more surprised (or worst case scenario irritated) that this scenario is possible with pretty much every other squadmate from ME1, except for her. And the fact she keeps showing up at Shep's cabin.

Okay thanks.  Though I don't know if I'd say I was surprised.  The fact that she only had an ancillary role in the second game is really the reason why.  Since she wasn't a party member, she's not vulnerable to dying on the Suicide Mission at the end of the second team.


I can understand if people groan because they don't like the character and in comes Liara.  Did you find this to be less of an issue in the previous two games?  (with any character, not just Liara)

I actually thought there would be a scenario where she could have died in the shadowbroker DLC (If she was going to die I thought it would be there).

I myself never had too much of an issue with characters because even though im a renegade im generally decent to my crew. I just felt with every other possible squadmate having the potential to die Liara should too.


Also I'm not someone who gets off on killing NPCs I save everyone in 1 and 2 and Liara was my LI. I just didnt like how Liara felt like an immortal covered in plot armor



EDIT: on and You can kill both Kaidan and Ashley eventually Maybe after you fail at Thessia Liara insists on staying to defend her world giving you the option to let her stay behind or persuade her to go on? THere were Times when it would have made sense for her to leave/die. But the writers seemed to have purposefully made her immortal barring the scenario where EVERYONE dies

Modifié par Vexille, 14 avril 2012 - 08:01 .

[hippanda]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Yes, Wrex, Tali, Garrus, Ashley, Kaidan can all die. Everyone in ME2 can die as well. Isnt it odd that she is the only one who cant die?

I like her character, I just think she should have been mortal like every other member of my squad through the 1st 2 games is all.

Again I liked Liara very much, I just think there should have been a scenario where she didnt survive.

I guess I'm just struggling to understand your perspective so please bear with me.  The way I saw it, party members can only actually die at very, very specific plot points in the trilogy.  Some might have alternate ways (ignore Tali's quest in ME2 it seems), but it seems to me that you're upset that Liara wasn't an active party member in ME2 and hence avoided the potential meat grinder that was the Suicide Mission.

It seems this situation also applies to fans that dislike both Ashley and Kaiden, correct?

As far as I'm concerend she doesn't even necessarily have to die. It would have been totally logical to make a pitstop by the crucible and kick her off the Normandy in exchange for some war asset points.

[IanPolaris]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Yes, Wrex, Tali, Garrus, Ashley, Kaidan can all die. Everyone in ME2 can die as well. Isnt it odd that she is the only one who cant die?

I like her character, I just think she should have been mortal like every other member of my squad through the 1st 2 games is all.

Again I liked Liara very much, I just think there should have been a scenario where she didnt survive.

I guess I'm just struggling to understand your perspective so please bear with me.  The way I saw it, party members can only actually die at very, very specific plot points in the trilogy.  Some might have alternate ways (ignore Tali's quest in ME2 it seems), but it seems to me that you're upset that Liara wasn't an active party member in ME2 and hence avoided the potential meat grinder that was the Suicide Mission.

It seems this situation also applies to fans that dislike both Ashley and Kaiden, correct?

Frankly it smacks of preferential treatment.  Let's face it.  VS is treated very badly by the writing team (at least in my opinion) and the sheer mistrust and hatred leveled at you in ME2 and even in the beginning in ME3 is IMO over the line...to the point where I tell them to get off my Ship in ME3 (an option you NEVER get with Liara).  Basically if you don't like the VS, you don't have to put up with him/her past Mars.  Not so with Liara.  If you don't like her, she comes across as a creepy stalker.  Really.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

hippanda wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Yes, Wrex, Tali, Garrus, Ashley, Kaidan can all die. Everyone in ME2 can die as well. Isnt it odd that she is the only one who cant die?

I like her character, I just think she should have been mortal like every other member of my squad through the 1st 2 games is all.

Again I liked Liara very much, I just think there should have been a scenario where she didnt survive.

I guess I'm just struggling to understand your perspective so please bear with me.  The way I saw it, party members can only actually die at very, very specific plot points in the trilogy.  Some might have alternate ways (ignore Tali's quest in ME2 it seems), but it seems to me that you're upset that Liara wasn't an active party member in ME2 and hence avoided the potential meat grinder that was the Suicide Mission.

It seems this situation also applies to fans that dislike both Ashley and Kaiden, correct?

As far as I'm concerend she doesn't even necessarily have to die. It would have been totally logical to make a pitstop by the crucible and kick her off the Normandy in exchange for some war asset points.

This.  You CAN do this with the VS.  You should be able to do this with Liara esp since being the Shadowbroker doesn't seem to mesh well with being an active squaddie on a spectre/spec-ops frigate.

-Polaris

[Isichar]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Yes, Wrex, Tali, Garrus, Ashley, Kaidan can all die. Everyone in ME2 can die as well. Isnt it odd that she is the only one who cant die?

I like her character, I just think she should have been mortal like every other member of my squad through the 1st 2 games is all.

Again I liked Liara very much, I just think there should have been a scenario where she didnt survive.

I guess I'm just struggling to understand your perspective so please bear with me.  The way I saw it, party members can only actually die at very, very specific plot points in the trilogy.  Some might have alternate ways (ignore Tali's quest in ME2 it seems), but it seems to me that you're upset that Liara wasn't an active party member in ME2 and hence avoided the potential meat grinder that was the Suicide Mission.

It seems this situation also applies to fans that dislike both Ashley and Kaiden, correct?

Basically people want to be able to kill Liara because they are jealous of her screentime. typical really.

[TNT1991]

Rolling Flame wrote...


Eh, alright then.

I don't know... maybe you'd get to play as the human-Reaper, or something. That'd be a strange twist!

Yes! Imagine the lulz.  

Edit: But in all seriousness,  let's not give Bioware ideas, especially for ME4. 

Modifié par TNT1991, 14 avril 2012 - 08:09 .

[Joeybsmooth4]

Maybe since I like Liara it does not seem like she gets that much more time than anyone else from ME . I mean with Liara it is that black box thing and her coming into check on you. You and Garrus go shooting with each other . You have 3 or 4 missions just for Tali .

[77boy84]

Mr.House wrote...

77boy84 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

I think we're more surprised (or worst case scenario irritated) that this scenario is possible with pretty much every other squadmate from ME1, except for her. And the fact she keeps showing up at Shep's cabin.

Okay thanks.  Though I don't know if I'd say I was surprised.  The fact that she only had an ancillary role in the second game is really the reason why.  Since she wasn't a party member, she's not vulnerable to dying on the Suicide Mission at the end of the second team.


I can understand if people groan because they don't like the character and in comes Liara.  Did you find this to be less of an issue in the previous two games?  (with any character, not just Liara)

Actually ME2 was the worst of all three IMO in that regard. My sig pretty much sums up who my fav squadmate is, but the fact remains that you are best buddies with him at the beginning of ME2 even if you were a complete d*ck to him in ME1. Same with Liara. I was absolutely awful with her in ME1, and yet she hugs me upon reuniting? I honestly disliked it. ME1 was ok because I could insult everybody if I wanted. ME2 was bad about that. ME3 was... okay for me, but I can see why some people could still be annoyed.

Yeah, this was a problem with meeting all the old squadmates, I think. You can treat Tali terribly in ME1, not give her the data, and then ****** her off when you meet her the first time in ME2, and she'll STILL be friendly and happy to be with Shepard again.

ANd you can still romance her.

Yeah, that really bugged me.
I wont begrude Bioware for putting in a fan favorite, but seriously... Tali in ME2 is the only character that really felt forced, imo. Sure, Liara had a lot of screen time, but never really felt forced.

I think the arguement can be made that Garrus, Liara, and Tali are the three writer's pets (Tali more of a... fan pet? I don't think she's there because the writers like her, but because so many fans do, maybe that counts) of the series, and at the end of the day, it kind of did hurt things.

I liked all three of them, but really, we needed some of the ME2 people as squad mates in there too. Focusing just on half of the ME1 squadmates was a bad move. They're cool and all, but the ME2 people are just as cool, and some of them deserved a place on the normandy damnit.

[omgodzilla]

I did feel like Liara was getting shoved down my throat alot. Especially when she was the one that showed up in my Shepard's last flashback instead of Miranda. I couldn't stop hating her after that day.

[IanPolaris]

Isichar wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Yes, Wrex, Tali, Garrus, Ashley, Kaidan can all die. Everyone in ME2 can die as well. Isnt it odd that she is the only one who cant die?

I like her character, I just think she should have been mortal like every other member of my squad through the 1st 2 games is all.

Again I liked Liara very much, I just think there should have been a scenario where she didnt survive.

I guess I'm just struggling to understand your perspective so please bear with me.  The way I saw it, party members can only actually die at very, very specific plot points in the trilogy.  Some might have alternate ways (ignore Tali's quest in ME2 it seems), but it seems to me that you're upset that Liara wasn't an active party member in ME2 and hence avoided the potential meat grinder that was the Suicide Mission.

It seems this situation also applies to fans that dislike both Ashley and Kaiden, correct?

Basically people want to be able to kill Liara because they are jealous of her screentime. typical really.

Disagree.  A lot of people don't like what they regard as heavy handed writing and Liara (even though I like her) is protected/favored by some very heavy handed writing.  The whole POINT of mass effect was that Commander Shepard was "ours" (as in the player's) and his or her outlook and impact on the galaxy should likewise be OURS.  That means that if we were a jerk to Liara in ME1 (which was easy to do), it should be reflected in ME2 and ME3...and our LI (if any) should be the one giving our Shepard advice/support not Liara (unless of course she is our Shep's LI of course).

-Polaris

[Karrie788]

Sparatus wrote...

Garrus felt a lot more forced in Mass Effect 2 honestly. I always got the feeling the writer's really didn't know what to do with him in that game and just stuck him there because the fans liked him. Since he has like two conversations and (IMHO) one of the weakest loyalty missions in the game that is just a rehash of his mission in Mass Effect.

He was much better in Mass Effect 3.

Agreed. I love his character but his evolution was... kinda weird. He earned some big Gary-Stu points in ME2. And as you said this whole "vengeance" theme got old quick.

[IanPolaris]

Joeybsmooth4 wrote...

Maybe since I like Liara it does not seem like she gets that much more time than anyone else from ME . I mean with Liara it is that black box thing and her coming into check on you. You and Garrus go shooting with each other . You have 3 or 4 missions just for Tali .

Actually you only have two.  The only way they could have gypped those of us that had Tali romances even more was if she wasn't permitted to be a squaddie.  Really.  Unlike the other ME1 character LIs (Liara and Garrus), you don't even get reunited with Tali until the game is almost over.  The two Tali missions are "Geth Dreadnaught" and "Destroy the Reaper Base (on Rannoch)"

-Polaris

[Vexille]

77boy84 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

77boy84 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

I think we're more surprised (or worst case scenario irritated) that this scenario is possible with pretty much every other squadmate from ME1, except for her. And the fact she keeps showing up at Shep's cabin.

Okay thanks.  Though I don't know if I'd say I was surprised.  The fact that she only had an ancillary role in the second game is really the reason why.  Since she wasn't a party member, she's not vulnerable to dying on the Suicide Mission at the end of the second team.


I can understand if people groan because they don't like the character and in comes Liara.  Did you find this to be less of an issue in the previous two games?  (with any character, not just Liara)

Actually ME2 was the worst of all three IMO in that regard. My sig pretty much sums up who my fav squadmate is, but the fact remains that you are best buddies with him at the beginning of ME2 even if you were a complete d*ck to him in ME1. Same with Liara. I was absolutely awful with her in ME1, and yet she hugs me upon reuniting? I honestly disliked it. ME1 was ok because I could insult everybody if I wanted. ME2 was bad about that. ME3 was... okay for me, but I can see why some people could still be annoyed.

Yeah, this was a problem with meeting all the old squadmates, I think. You can treat Tali terribly in ME1, not give her the data, and then ****** her off when you meet her the first time in ME2, and she'll STILL be friendly and happy to be with Shepard again.

ANd you can still romance her.

Yeah, that really bugged me.
I wont begrude Bioware for putting in a fan favorite, but seriously... Tali in ME2 is the only character that really felt forced, imo. Sure, Liara had a lot of screen time, but never really felt forced.

I think the arguement can be made that Garrus, Liara, and Tali are the three writer's pets (Tali more of a... fan pet? I don't think she's there because the writers like her, but because so many fans do, maybe that counts) of the series, and at the end of the day, it kind of did hurt things.

I liked all three of them, but really, we needed some of the ME2 people as squad mates in there too. Focusing just on half of the ME1 squadmates was a bad move. They're cool and all, but the ME2 people are just as cool, and some of them deserved a place on the normandy damnit.

I actually really agree with that. Liara and Garrus were writers pets, but Tali was likely FAR more popular then expected. If Tali or Garrus were immortal I would be arguing the same points here, the only reason Liara stands out as a writers pet MORE to me is because of the extra plot armor.

I still dont kno why space gypsy Tali got so popular