68 réponses à ce sujet

[beelzeybob]

I tend to sic both Wynne and Morrigan in Arcane warrior simply for the reason that I need more storage room for all the plate armors I have collected playing the game (Soldier's Peak is not enuff)

[x-president]

Tonya777 wrote...

I always just give her a specialization and then never actually teach her anything of her 2nd spec lol

Same, I just use the specializations more for the bonuses they give.  Stock spells are plenty strong.

[Naxela625]

Wynne + blood sacrifice = unlimited healing potential

[Loneshade]

I could imagine blood magic fits roleplay wise - even though it adds a comic touch:

she's bound to a spirit from the other world, so isn't being a spirit healer and a blood mage two sides of the same coin? Though she'd probably prefer not to research the later....

[RangerSG]

swk3000 wrote...

Kalcalan wrote...
I'm curious about that. I don't remember she condoned Blood Magic, would you care to develop that point?

There's a line of dialogue with her where she's talking about how the idea of becoming an Abomination scared her when she was younger. At some point in the conversation, the idea of someone who is an 'Abomination', but still has control and retains their humanity comes up. A Dialogue Option for the Player Character says something along the lines of, 'An Abomination who retains their humanity isn't an Abomination'. Wynne's response to this is basically, 'You're right. I never thought of it like that.'

To me, while this isn't an out-and-out stamp of approval for Blood Magic, it does give her a new point of view on the subject: that a Blood Mage who is using their own Life Force, and never even considers taking Life Force from someone else to power their spells, isn't someone to be shunned.

Honestly, from an RP standpoint, the biggest problem with Blood Magic is that the power tends to go to people's heads. The Tevinter Imperium used Blood Magic a lot, and even kept slaves for the sole purpose of taking their lives to power the more costly spells. With such examples, Fereldan's treat Blood Magic as the root of all evil, instead of taking it on a case-by-case basis. All the Blood Mage's that people know about are bad people, so it's not hard to see how they got that view, but you have to wonder: how many Blood Mage's out there quietly used Blood Magic to augment their spells using only their own Life Force? Cosidering the stigma associated with Blood Mage's, they would have done everything possible to keep their abilities quiet.

Unfortunately, Blood Magic has been hit by the same thing the Swastika has. The Swastika has been found to have been around for as far back as the first Millenium BC. However, today everyone looks at the symbol and immediately associates it with the **** Party from WWII. All it takes is one bad thing associated with something, and suddenly a symbol or a school of magic becomes evil. It's unfortunate, but it's a part of the human psyche.

Anyway, the point of all this meandering is that Wynne seems to be the sort of person who is smart enough to separate fact from superstition, and act on the fact. While she recognized the dangers of Blood Magic, she could be seen as looking at it from the point of view that, as long as she doesn't cross certain ethical lines, there's nothing wrong with being a Blood Mage.

Wow...she absolutely tells you repeatedly she despises Blood Magic. Anytime you think about it, she disapproves. If you choose to be a Blood Mage, she goes Templar on you.

But it's ok for her to go BM because of this? Umm...no. BM stomps on everything she believes.

1) She actually DOES respect the Chantry, remember.

2) The whole Tower debacle was caused by BM gone bonkers. You think that's not in the mind of a loyalist like her?

3) If you ask her about BM, she gives the party line. Having a spirit inside her is not the same at all as practicing forbidden magic.

Now, if you want to give it to her for powergaming, then go ahead. But please, don't even try to justify it as an RP choice. From an RP choice, it's even less sensible than Sten being a Templar. Frankly, I think it should be blocked out for her, it's antithetical to everything she believes in. End of story.

[Kaoschizm]

I agree from a lore point of view none of them really make sense - I gave her arcane warrior just because there are some pretty good light armor items out there and she can wear them without taking points in strength. Lore-wise it's probably the best of a bad bunch.

I hope they have some extra specialisations in the expansion pack, a scholar/wizard type one for the mage would be nice for those wanting to improve on traditional magic. Maybe a pirate spec for the rogue yarrr

Modifié par Kaoschizm, 23 janvier 2010 - 02:47 .

[RangerSG]

Kaoschizm wrote...


I agree from a lore point of view none of them really make sense - I gave her arcane warrior just because there are some pretty good light armor items out there and she can wear them without taking points in strength. Lore-wise it's probably the best of a bad bunch.

I hope they have some extra specialisations in the expansion pack, a scholar/wizard type one for the mage would be nice for those wanting to improve on traditional magic. Maybe a pirate spec for the rogue yarrr

I do agree that I'd like to see an arcane scholar type specialization. And that would be very much in line with Wynne. Also in line with both of my PC mages.

[DJ0000]

MrIsidor wrote...

Seems I have to explain myself further. I'm not talking about what's best from a powergaming pov, I'm talking about what feels right from a story/character perspective.

Blood Mage is out of the question. According to the circle's (and thus Wynne's) beliefs it's pretty much the root to all evil. The circle tower also just got devastated because of the use of blood magic. Doesn't exactly give Wynne any reason to change that point of view.

My resistance to Arcane warrior is pretty much only because of my traditional view on mages. Mages are supposed to be dressed in robes and be squishy, that's half the fun. Wearing tons of armour just don't seem right. If you need to put armour on a mage, you're not playing the mage right.
Diamaht got a point tho. I might need to soften up to this idea.

So the problem is not that there are no good specs. It's just that you don't believe any of them are good for Wynne from a role playing perspective. I think Mages actually have the best specializations.

[Lupine]

swk3000 that's the most amazing analyzation of things that I've heard regarding Blood Magic and I have to say it reminds me of Furies of Calderon; for the first 3 books the Cainum ritualists are exactly as you pointed out, then in the four book we meet the traditionalists of the order and realize that the whole order is actually an amazing group of people that use their own life force to protect and heal but it had just been the new upstarts of the order that murdered others for their power that gave the whole group a horrible name.

[danerman]

I agree from a statistical point of view BM is the best for Wynne and it works very well with spirit healer. I also agree the game should have never allowed the player to give Wynne Blood Magic. That being said I have been playing Wynne as a hypocritical old mage. Blood magic is fine for her because she can control it but it's bad for anyone else. I even let her show off her blood magic at the Landsmeet in front of the Chantry and nobles by having her duel Loghain. It's pretty funny no one says anything about it. Blood Wound should be an obvious spell to point out.

Edit:  I've never done this but it has to be possible if you do the mages tower quest very late in the game to give her blood magic by the end of the mage's tower quest.  Then have her expose your character as a blood mage.  That'd be a riot, I wonder if anyone has done this or if it is possible.

Modifié par danerman, 12 mars 2011 - 05:08 .

[areki38]

Beside the beneficial stats from Blood Mage, I also think rolepplaying wise it makes the most sense. Through all the battles against Blood Mages throughout the game, combined with the theoretical studies she probably has done before, Wynne should get a basic undestanding of how Blood Magic works in order to give her the specialization and thus the stats bonuses. Just don't learn any of the Blood Mage abilities, which is no problem for a Mage since there are way more than enough spells to choose from which are all great. A good way by Bioware to have mages not spend too many spell points on specialization abilities
Shazam!! - problem solved!

[Zaxares]

I went with a similar reasoning, but for Shapeshifter instead. I just theorised that time spent talking with Morrigan in camp led to Wynne picking up a few bits of knowledge about how shapeshifting works (even if she never learns any actual Shapeshifter spells). In time, Wynne might bring this knowledge back to the Circle and create a whole new school of magic.

[TheBigMatt90]

But Wynne **HATES** blood magic, the studying of blood magic is heretical to the templars, and Wynne isn't a maleficar, so i'm sorry i totally disagree that she would've learnta bit "from an RP point of view", but quite the opposite.

*fingers in ears* "LALALA im not listening" sort of thing.

[Marvin_Arnold]

Blood Magic is EVIL from any RP point of view. So it would be impossible for "Lawful Good" Wynne to use it. If you want to play "Chaotic Evil", it makes sense for you, but never for Wynne.

Doesn't Wynne openly denounce you at the Landsmeet if you learn Blood Magic? I think I remember something like that. (Or maybe it's a "deleted scene" that can be unlocked by a mod, I don't remember.)


Arcane Warrior because she looks like a hot granny in plate armor wielding Spellweaver.

But I have to admit I usually keep her out of the fray and let her use the sword for self-defense, if attacked.

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 20 juin 2011 - 01:50 .

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

Making her a blood mage would be 100% out of character for her, and making her a shapeshifter wouldn't do much good, since her strength and dexterity are low.  Usually, I give her the Arcane Warrior spec and just have her learn the first skill (Combat Magic).  By doing this, it substitutes magic for the strength requirements so that she won't be restricted with the equipment that she can wear.

[TBastian]

The reason Wynne wouldn't make a good Shapeshifter has nothing to do with her Strength and Dex, since high Magic can make up for these. The reason is because she has too many points in willpower. Raising her approval also increases Willpower. Bottomline, she's built for prolonged casting.

There's really no reason why you should give Wynne a second specialization. By the time you get to level 14, the bonuses you get for actually choosing a second spec are almost nonfactor. Wynne also doesn't need anything beyond what's already available to her - you're better off investing her spell points into actual spells instead of specialization skills. If you roleplay, then all the more reason no to choose a spec - Wynne is old, and as the game unfolds you'll realize that she's dying. In the wake of the blight she's more interested in closure and helping out the Grey Warden with what time she has left, not in broadening her horizons (ie. learning swordplay, listening to Morrigan's rants and "picking up" a few tricks, suddenly developing an interest in Blood Magic out of sheer whimsy).

Modifié par TBastian, 21 juin 2011 - 10:45 .

[Arthur Cousland]

I usually give her the blood mage spec for the stat boosts.  I don't actually have her use blood magic or purchase any of the talents.  She doesn't need a second specialization, and none of the others really fit with her character.  As I usually have her wear Vestments of the Seer and cast her spells from a distance, the arcane warrior spec would be a waste on her, as she wouldn't be making use of any of the talents or the dexterity/attack boosts.

[Ambervikings92]

not a lot of choice here, BM i'd say

[jfm]

Funny, I went Arcane Warrior with her. With Haste and Aura of Cleasing Up at all time, and a lot of potions to quaff, the best armor rating in the group and healing to spare, she's a kind of holy warrior that cand hold herself pretty well in melee. She uses her mana to sustain abilities, not to cast spells - but a potion and she can group heal of petrify an annoying creature. I'ts pretty effective, if you ask me.

And I think it make sense for a mage agreeing to follow a grey warden and who learns about a way to use magic in combat to do so.  She could pick up basic combat training at the camp, and seems to have the nerve to do so.

Modifié par jfm, 21 juillet 2011 - 04:32 .