158 réponses à ce sujet

[Inarai]

bjdbwea wrote...

Maybe some of you misunderstood my question. I love Mass Effect and Fallout 3 (with mods that change it much more into an RPG). Deus Ex was great too. Not saying people who enjoy action games are dumb. But pure FPSs are so... outdated? I think so. You run through linear levels and shoot things. So what? After ten hours it's over, no replayability at all. Multiplayer? Sure. But it's still just shooting stuff. A good RPG requires much more work from the developers, but offers so much more gameplay. That's why I can't understand those sales numbers. Though I also can't understand the success or lack thereof of movies anymore.

The thing you need to understand is that what you or I might consider quality, some people might consider useless.  It's like quality movies - some of the best limit their audience by not even trying to appeal to the masses.  But the most popular titles, in games and movies, are the big explosive blockbusters.

This is not to say  they are bad games, nor is it intended to insult their fans.  For myself, I like my mindless entertainment sometimes - but at the same time, I find the experience richer if I can catually put my mind into it, which ISN'T the case for a lot of people.  That's the issue these sorts of games come across.

[bjdbwea]

Well put, but it's a sad indicator for the general condition of our society. Yet even DA is a good example that recent RPGs already try very hard to appeal to that kind of audience. But apparently they're still not dumbed down enough if those sales numbers are anything to go by.
Let's just hope the game sells well enough to justify similar efforts in the future. As I said, I don't mind the action, but why should developers spend time on different classes, abilities, conversations, solutions if titles without any depth sell even better?

Modifié par bjdbwea, 06 décembre 2009 - 09:35 .

[Inarai]

bjdbwea wrote...

Well put, but it's a sad indicator for the general condition of our society. Yet even DA is a good example that recent RPGs already try very hard to appeal to that kind of audience. But apparently they're still not dumbed down enough if those sales numbers are anything to go by.
Let's just hope the game sells well enough to justify similar efforts in the future. As I said, I don't mind the action, but why should developers spend time on different classes, abilities, conversations, solutions if titles without any depth sell even better?

Pulp entertainment will flourish in any form it can.  And because it does, you get an industry where the people who DO produce quality can actually be employed and make it.  Neither can exist without the other, really.

[Gamer-erBIO]

Last I check it sold 440k on 360 and 160k on ps3.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Inarai wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Maybe some of you misunderstood my question. I love Mass Effect and Fallout 3 (with mods that change it much more into an RPG). Deus Ex was great too. Not saying people who enjoy action games are dumb. But pure FPSs are so... outdated? I think so. You run through linear levels and shoot things. So what? After ten hours it's over, no replayability at all. Multiplayer? Sure. But it's still just shooting stuff. A good RPG requires much more work from the developers, but offers so much more gameplay. That's why I can't understand those sales numbers. Though I also can't understand the success or lack thereof of movies anymore.

The thing you need to understand is that what you or I might consider quality, some people might consider useless.  It's like quality movies - some of the best limit their audience by not even trying to appeal to the masses.  But the most popular titles, in games and movies, are the big explosive blockbusters.

This is not to say  they are bad games, nor is it intended to insult their fans.  For myself, I like my mindless entertainment sometimes - but at the same time, I find the experience richer if I can catually put my mind into it, which ISN'T the case for a lot of people.  That's the issue these sorts of games come across.

I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the stereotypes aimed at FPS gamers stems from the multiplayer/online atmosphere; more specifically, the hostile/ignorant/incoherent bull**** attitude that seems to be possessed by the vast majority of online players in popular games like Halo and CoD4.

Probably the single biggest reason I let my XBL account expire was because I was sick and tired of dealing with crybabies/egotistical psychos/10-yr-old punks/immature teens and some more of the worst cases of anger management issues I've ever seen. And that happened EVERY time I played online. So then we have stereotypes...


Obviously I don't paint everyone with the same brush, but still... it's hard to avoid these idiots when you play an online shooter.

Modifié par Mr. MannlyMan, 06 décembre 2009 - 09:46 .

[Darpaek]

FedericoV wrote...

I do agree and I love your signature .

HAHA!  Thanks!  My poor city elf hottie... Queen of the Alienage or Royal ****...?  She chose Teryn of Gwaren. =D

And my Human Noble Male???  WTF?  Backbench to a stupid plebe?!  I've got a ****ing army!

At least it beats FO3 sans Broken Steel... =D

About Fallout: it's a good game in itself. I enjoy it even if in term of RP it was a little bit hollow (imho). The only problem is that they have called it Fallout 3 and honestly it has nothing to do with his predecessor if not for the setting.

And there it is.  Forget about NCR and New Reno, and it's a giggle to blow up Super Mutants from the top of Abe Lincoln's decapitated statue.  If they'd called it Wasteland 2, I would have enjoyed it - so I'll enjoy it if they call it FO3!  =D

Modifié par Darpaek, 06 décembre 2009 - 09:55 .

[Darpaek]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the stereotypes aimed at FPS gamers stems from the multiplayer/online atmosphere; more specifically, the hostile/ignorant/incoherent bull**** attitude that seems to be possessed by the vast majority of online players in popular games like Halo and CoD4.

Probably the single biggest reason I let my XBL account expire was because I was sick and tired of dealing with crybabies/egotistical psychos/10-yr-old punks/immature teens and some more of the worst cases of anger management issues I've ever seen. And that happened EVERY time I played online. So then we have stereotypes...


Obviously I don't paint everyone with the same brush, but still... it's hard to avoid these idiots when you play an online shooter.

Just because I giggle and make fun of you while I tea-bag your corpse doesn't mean I'm an idiot!

[Inarai]

Darpaek wrote...

About Fallout: it's a good game in itself. I enjoy it even if in term of RP it was a little bit hollow (imho). The only problem is that they have called it Fallout 3 and honestly it has nothing to do with his predecessor if not for the setting.

And there it is.  Forget about NCR and New Reno, and it's a giggle to blow up Super Mutants from the top of Abe Lincoln's decapitated statue.  If they'd called it Wasteland 2, I would have enjoyed it - so I'll enjoy it if they call it FO3!  =D

Yeah, it's a fun game in and of itself...  I mean, come on, you get a feraking NUKE LAUNCHER!

[Darpaek]

HELL YEAH!!!!!!! And the Rock-It Launcher!!! LOLz!

[Killian Kalthorne]

I just don't understand the obsession people have over wanting to know how much a game sells. Are you part of the company? Do you have a financial stake in how well the game performs? If not, then it isn't none of your business.

[Solica]

Well, yes, I'd say we have a stake of sort .

We want DA:? and DA2:? etc. Obviously we're not going to, if DA:O doesn't do well. (hear that, pirate scum?)

Some people have been active on some Bioware Dragon Age forum for a long time, like since soon after NWN. Don't remember exactly, but it has been long. Is it then surprising with a bit of curiosity how it does?

[FedericoV]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

I just don't understand the obsession people have over wanting to know how much a game sells. Are you part of the company? Do you have a financial stake in how well the game performs? If not, then it isn't none of your business.

If DA:O do well, we will have more DA's games and probably we will have more "deep" RPG in general. Otherwise, we won't. It's really simple. If you don't care or you don't get it, I understand, but a lot of people want to see more games like DA:O.

You know, I follow DA:O development since it all started in the famous "petition for BG 3" thread in the old forums. And I'm curios to see if it does well or not.

Most of all, despite all criticism about little details, it's clear that the devs have put their heart in that game. I would like to see them succeed since they deserve it for all their efforts.

[spernus]

Dragon age should end up selling on par with most of their titles,which is 2-3 million copies sold.

I just don't think the Bioware model can sell above that number,especially since most gamers do not like to have too much dialogue in their game.They would rather control their character and bash monsters on the skull,just like Todd Howard love his rpg and thus why Bethesda or Blizzard are more popular.

Mass effect 2 will be a solid/very good shooter,but I am sure a lot of gamers will return the game when they start roleplaying and going through "endless" boring dialogues(thus the word of mouth will kill any chance of the title selling all that well) .

[Id of Ith]

bjdbwea wrote...

Maybe some of you misunderstood my question. I love Mass Effect and Fallout 3 (with mods that change it much more into an RPG). Deus Ex was great too. Not saying people who enjoy action games are dumb. But pure FPSs are so... outdated? I think so. You run through linear levels and shoot things. So what? After ten hours it's over, no replayability at all. Multiplayer? Sure. But it's still just shooting stuff. A good RPG requires much more work from the developers, but offers so much more gameplay. That's why I can't understand those sales numbers. Though I also can't understand the success or lack thereof of movies anymore.

They offer more gameplay of a variety that a lot of people don't find entertaining. There's no reflection of intellect in what types of gameplay people tend to enjoy, really. People play video games for very different reasons. There is no amount of awesome storytelling that would make someone who demands direct control of a combat situation enjoy a game like this. Those same people that you think enjoy "just shooting stuff" would probably look at this game and ask why you enjoy "just clicking stuff" because there's no direct control over the combat and wouldn't give it a second glance. In essence it's exactly the same kind of dismission you give FPS games, for different reasons - both views of which are entirely valid because the purpose of a video game is limited.

[Malsumis]

HighlandBerserkr wrote...

PC gaming is on the decline, PC games will never outsell their console counterparts even if they are better on the PC, Dragon Age is no exception.

L4D, HL2 and L4D2 all sold far better on PC then they did on consoles. Almost every stratergy game ever released has sold better on PC.  I would be surprised if the PS3/360 of DA outsells the PC version. Especially since a month after release both DA versons are in the top 10 sellers on Steam and Steam supposedly has 70% of all DD sales.

PC gaming is not in decline, it just didn't explode in popularity like consoles did.

spernus wrote...

Mass effect 2 will be a solid/very good shooter,but I am sure a lot of
gamers will return the game when they start roleplaying and going
through "endless" boring dialogues(thus the word of mouth will kill any
chance of the title selling all that well) . [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

ME2 will sell better then DA. ME sold over 2 mil on the 360 alone and obviously well enough on the PC for it to get a simultaneous release for the sequel.

Modifié par Malsumis, 07 décembre 2009 - 06:18 .

[MerinTB]

Darpaek wrote...

And look at some shooter RPGs. Even from the purist story RPG perspective - VtM:Bloodlines wouldn't exist without Half-life 2. And that is a TERRIFIC "story" RPG from any measure.

This is so true that I endlessly thank the stars for Half-Life 2, even though I barely played it (couldn't get into it, sorry.)

But yes, HL2 brought us VTM Bloodlines, and as such I justify buying HL2 on principle alone.

There's a valid criticism of, and a lot of webhate, for Fallout 3. Personally, I thought it was incredible. And, yeah - I'm still a huge fan of 1 and 2.

Right here with you on this point, too.

Or Max Payne! Incredible from the "story" perspective!

I've seen many, many, many people criticize the story of Max Payne.  I'm definitely not one of them - Payne is one of the very few shooter games that I played more than once solo and love.

[MerinTB]

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

HighlandBerserkr wrote...

PC gaming is on the decline, PC games will never outsell their console counterparts even if they are better on the PC, Dragon Age is no exception.

Actual numbers show an increase in PC games sales.

I am so tired of seeing the "PC Gaming is dying" myth.

PC gaming has, almost consistantly, only increased in size over time.  WoW subscribers alone respresent nearly the ENTIRITY of PC gaming in the early 90's.

Any statistics you can find show the slow but steady increase in PC gaming.

The problem comes in comparing the size of the PC gaming pool to the size of the console gaming pool.  Historically console gaming has had major ebbs and flows - the crash post-Atari is one big time, the derth of growth at the early advent of CD based game consoles is another.
Everyone sees this from a post-PS1 era view, from which the console market has hit several major booms.  The PS2 was ridiculously successful, the XBOX brougth real variety to the solely Japanese console selection, and the Wii has successfully (along with Guitar Hero type games) brought casual gaming to people who would NEVER consider themselves gamers.

Console gamings numbers ebb and flow, with some recent huge jumps.
PC gaming is slow, steady growth.
Comparing the two is where things get confusing.

[Darpaek]

We're also in the middle of the Wii bubble atm. Heck... even my mom - who despises video games and always hated me "computer thing" as I was growing up - thinks the Wii is a hoot. There's a massive boost of new so-called "console gamers" that would never be considered a "gamer" absent the Wii.

[Magister Lajciak]

I have to agree with those who say that PC gaming is not in decline. It is being transformed with MMOs and digital offerings gaining more prominence than before sometimes at the expense of classic retail sales, but overall it is growing. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that consoles are a bigger market at this time, but that can change. For some genres, such as party-based traditional-style RPGs that Dragon Age harkens back to, PCs are most likely a bigger market.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

There is no doubt that this game will warrant enough sales for a sequel. Bioware has a dedicated fanbase and after the popularity of Mass Effect and some of the Mass Effect DLC, I'm sure it has enticed some people into checking out the game that enjoyed ME.



Why would anyone who enjoyed Mass Effect and yet not get DA:O is beyond me, Mass Effect wasn't really for the actiony types. Most of them put down the game after a couple hours in the Citadel because it was boring them.

[blitzzz]

HighlandBerserkr wrote...

PC gaming is on the decline, PC games will never outsell their console counterparts even if they are better on the PC, Dragon Age is no exception.

wrong. in germany and the other german speaking countries big pc games still sell better.

[Magister Lajciak]

Yes, I think in Europe, PC is still the dominant gaming platform, since console penetration is not as high as in the U.S. - at least that is my anecdotal impression.

[Xaltar81]

Agreed, consoles are nowhere near as popular in Europe. A console like the PS3 here costs more than a PC that can play the game you want, even if it is on medium to low settings. The difference is that the PC can then be upgraded in bits as cashflow improves. Consoles are a one off purchase and while there are some upgrades available, they are expensive and do not offer as much performance increase as say, buying a new GFX card. Add to that that consoles are all but useless for anything but games and you see how they fall to the bottom of the priority list.



In the US you have great payment plans and other similar means to buy your consoles over a period of time. Such things are not so readily available in Europe, they exist but tend to be targeted at upper - middle class and the people that could benefit most from it are unable to get it. Personally I hate consoles, they are clunky and limited. Not to mention I keep loosing or breaking my controllers :S hehe.

[Magister Lajciak]

EA's CEO, Mr. John Riccitiello will present at the UBS Global Media and Communications Conference on on Tuesday (8 December 2009). Perhaps he will metion the success of Dragon Age in some manner.



http://www.tradingma...k News/2704432/

[SphereofSilence]

Magister Lajciak wrote...

I have to agree with those who say that PC gaming is not in decline. It is being transformed with MMOs and digital offerings gaining more prominence than before sometimes at the expense of classic retail sales, but overall it is growing. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that consoles are a bigger market at this time, but that can change. For some genres, such as party-based traditional-style RPGs that Dragon Age harkens back to, PCs are most likely a bigger market.

And remember we haven't even considered revenues coming from online pay to play in MMOs. What about PC MMOs in china? Fewer people know about that exploding market over there.

Also, the numbers in Asia are staggering with cyber cafes booming all over the place where young gamers involve themselves in competitive multiplayer.

Seriously, whoever says PC gaming is in decline doesn't know what they're talking about.