38 réponses à ce sujet

[fro7k]

I acquired crushing prison during the sloth demon quest (via the spirit form), and it seems to render my opponent completely harmless, i.e. they just stand there taking damage, even though the recoil animation isn't constant.  Intended?  I thought it might be related to that other bug I encountered where my characters would just stand there instead of attacking even if it specifies "attacking" as their current action...

[Dunhart]

I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to work. Bloody annoying when used by enemies, having Alistair/Wynne/Morrigan to cleanse/dispel it is handy later on.

[Jaryd theBlackDragon]

Or use Force Field on someone affected by it and see what happens... (probably don't want to stand too close though)

[menasure]

it is working as intended when you read the description. the most powerful single target spells practically mean irreversible death -luckily the death part is not that strict however for your own characters although they certainly will hurt a lot when you're on the receiver end-
the thing is that these spells are supposed to be the top spells and they were probably meant for your last levels in game. however players do like to min max rather than build up a variety of stats and skills and what's worse: some mobs seem to do the same :S

Modifié par menasure, 05 décembre 2009 - 11:39 .

[Rainen89]

It doesn't (the paralyze effect) work on bosses, only the damage will. Forcefield does and that ones just silly.

[B33ker]

It wouldn't be as bad if the duration wasn't so long, but with how long it lasts once it hits, whoever gets hit is pretty much screwed.



I've got my mage tactics set up to use it on the highest ranking enemy in any battle, which gives us more time to plow him under along with his weakling friends.

[Dunhart]

I use it as a "fire and forget" spell against enemy mages. Whites usually die to it alone, yellows might need some extra work.

[Imrahil_]

B33ker wrote...
I've got my mage tactics set up to use it on the highest ranking enemy in any battle, which gives us more time to plow him under along with his weakling friends.

How do you set the Tactics up to target the highest ranking enemy?  I see where I can set to something like "Rank = Elite or higher", but I haven't seen "Highest Rank".  I'm probably missing something obvious, though.

[HoLyEmperor]

Imrahil_ wrote...

B33ker wrote...
I've got my mage tactics set up to use it on the highest ranking enemy in any battle, which gives us more time to plow him under along with his weakling friends.

How do you set the Tactics up to target the highest ranking enemy?  I see where I can set to something like "Rank = Elite or higher", but I haven't seen "Highest Rank".  I'm probably missing something obvious, though.

That's probably what he means, but you can do "highest rank" with two tactics lines:

enemy: orange --> crushing prison
enemy: yellow --> crushing prison

It'll try to use it on an orange enemy first.  If there isn't one, it'll do a yellow enemy.

You can do similar stuff with other spells.  Healing, for example, I use two lines.  The first to specify the tank, the second for any party member.  That way it's more likely the tank gets healed when necessary.

Modifié par HoLyEmperor, 06 décembre 2009 - 12:48 .

[Bluesmith]

 It is working as intended, although I too sometimes have a hard time believing that Bioware truly intended for mages to be as overpowered as they are. 

Cone-of-Cold, Crushing Prison, Force Field, SotC, Fireball, (voice trails off as list continues)....

[HoLyEmperor]

Bluesmith wrote...

 It is working as intended, although I too sometimes have a hard time believing that Bioware truly intended for mages to be as overpowered as they are. 

Cone-of-Cold, Crushing Prison, Force Field, SotC, Fireball, (voice trails off as list continues)....

If they weren't overpowered, nobody would fear them and then there wouldn't be the Chantry/Circle thing.  See, overpoweredness is required by in-game history.

[Zerbin]

He's got you there.

[Bluesmith]

HoLyEmperor wrote...

Bluesmith wrote...

 It is working as intended, although I too sometimes have a hard time believing that Bioware truly intended for mages to be as overpowered as they are. 

Cone-of-Cold, Crushing Prison, Force Field, SotC, Fireball, (voice trails off as list continues)....

If they weren't overpowered, nobody would fear them and then there wouldn't be the Chantry/Circle thing.  See, overpoweredness is required by in-game history.

Ah yes. Separating gameplay from lore? What was I thinking? I'm glad this game doesn't do that, ever, and is one of the first cRPGs to totally forgo silly concepts like HP, AC, defense, etc. Now let me go back to playing Starcraft, where battlecruisers always cover  the entire screen and obliterate everybody from orbit.  

[B33ker]

HoLyEmperor wrote...

Imrahil_ wrote...

B33ker wrote...
I've got my mage tactics set up to use it on the highest ranking enemy in any battle, which gives us more time to plow him under along with his weakling friends.

How do you set the Tactics up to target the highest ranking enemy?  I see where I can set to something like "Rank = Elite or higher", but I haven't seen "Highest Rank".  I'm probably missing something obvious, though.

That's probably what he means, but you can do "highest rank" with two tactics lines:

enemy: orange --> crushing prison
enemy: yellow --> crushing prison

It'll try to use it on an orange enemy first.  If there isn't one, it'll do a yellow enemy.

You can do similar stuff with other spells.  Healing, for example, I use two lines.  The first to specify the tank, the second for any party member.  That way it's more likely the tank gets healed when necessary.

Exactly, I have a couple slots set up to look for the 2 highest ranks and CP them if they are there.  In a multi-mage party you can set one to look for Yellows and one to look for Oranges to save a slot on each.

Sorry about the confusion on that.

[sacredl]

>Is this spell bugged or just overpowered?



It is fine, what do you expect from high tier spell? To be not a strong one? ekhm

[Bluesmith]

sacredl wrote...

>Is this spell bugged or just overpowered?

It is fine, what do you expect from high tier spell? To be not a strong one? ekhm

It's pretty disingenuous to classify anything as "high tier" in a game where a level 7 character can purchase pretty much any spell for, at most, four talent points. We're not talking about WoW talent trees where you pretty much must commit yourself to specific "overpowered" talents at the expense of others.

[HoLyEmperor]

Bluesmith wrote...

sacredl wrote...

>Is this spell bugged or just overpowered?

It is fine, what do you expect from high tier spell? To be not a strong one? ekhm

It's pretty disingenuous to classify anything as "high tier" in a game where a level 7 character can purchase pretty much any spell for, at most, four talent points. We're not talking about WoW talent trees where you pretty much must commit yourself to specific "overpowered" talents at the expense of others.

I personally think mages are rather well designed.  They allow for min/maxing, or flavor, whichever is your style.

If you find certain spells (force field, mass paralysis, etc.) to be overpowered, you don't have to use them.  You can play a mage the way you like.  For example, on my last playthrough, Wynne was my only mage and I used her only for healing and party buffing.  I didn't give her any offensive or crowd control spells at all (or, any that I had to buy as prerequisites, I took off the action bar).  DAO isn't an MMO.  There's no need to squeeze every last drop of juice out of your builds.

Modifié par HoLyEmperor, 06 décembre 2009 - 01:12 .

[Xerxes52]

Crushing Prison is certainly OP in my opinion.

I ran a playthrough with my Arcane Warrior, and the only 3 offensive powers I used were Crushing Prison, Insect Swarm, and Virulent Walking Bomb.

Crushing Prison just took all the fun out of the boss battles and VWB would wipe out half a room, then infect the rest lol (That's how I got my Heavy Hitter).

The rest of my mana was taken up by sustainables. I would also use Dark Sustenance to recharge (in the mid to late game it takes an inconsequential amount of health and fills all of my available mana).

Modifié par Xerxes52, 06 décembre 2009 - 01:23 .

[Bluesmith]

HoLyEmperor wrote...

Bluesmith wrote...

sacredl wrote...

>Is this spell bugged or just overpowered?

It is fine, what do you expect from high tier spell? To be not a strong one? ekhm

It's pretty disingenuous to classify anything as "high tier" in a game where a level 7 character can purchase pretty much any spell for, at most, four talent points. We're not talking about WoW talent trees where you pretty much must commit yourself to specific "overpowered" talents at the expense of others.

I personally think mages are rather well designed.  They allow for min/maxing, or flavor, whichever is your style.

If you find certain spells (force field, mass paralysis, etc.) to be overpowered, you don't have to use them.  You can play a mage the way you like.  For example, on my last playthrough, Wynne was my only mage and I used her only for healing and party buffing.  I didn't give her any offensive or crowd control spells at all (or, any that I had to buy as prerequisites, I took off the action bar).  DAO isn't an MMO.  There's no need to squeeze every last drop of juice out of your builds.

This argument has been thrown around as often as the balance complaints themselves have been. Always is it wrong.

No game should require you to forgo fully 1:3 of the playable classes (2:9 characters, 1:6 origin, 4:12 specialty classes, a fair portion of available gear, and far more than 1:3 of the usable abilities) in the game in order to preserve any semblance of a challenge. I want to use mages precisely because spells are cool, but I can't let myself use them because then I just ROFLSTOMP entire rooms full of mobs. It doesn't take much - a single Cone of Cold'd pack of mobs or a hexed boss can completely trivialize an encounter. I'm not talking about ignoring one or two BS spells. No, I'm talking about ignoring pretty much the entire class (except for, perhaps, heal spells).

In effect, there is content available to me that I cannot use (SotC, Cone of Cold, Fireball, Flaming Weapons, Force Field, and more) - a veritable plethora of cool special effects, strategies, and builds - all because Bioware is guilty of either a grave series of oversights or a flawed obsession with lore. 

Why do people defend this failure of balance? Do you enjoy having multiple "kill all enemies and win fight" keybinds pre-set for you by the devs? If you really just want to ROFLSTOMP you could just spawn infinite gold for yourself and buy all the best gear on easy. Does it ruin your enjoyment of the game when lore and balance are seperated for the purposes of gameplay?

[Fishy]

Cone of Cold
Crushing Prison
Force field
Any paralysis Spell
Chain Lightning quite powerful for a low level spell( i use it a lot)
Pbaoe Stun
That Lightning spell that do dmg on every target etc ..


In fact .. Most spell have great use if you use them correctly..It,s not just the spell that's overpowered but mage in general

personnaly my mage's a shape Shifter with maxed mage tree and thus .. have 2-3 spell i never use.Mage tree's quite worthless really .. The dmg boost's simply gimp compared to what i could have gotten .. But i wanted it for my second mage playthrough.

Mage are overpowered..But it's a single player game not a mmorpg..So Mage being powerful just go with the lore of the game.

I also love the lifetap spell .. Because i rarely spam potion.

Modifié par Suprez30, 06 décembre 2009 - 01:31 .

[HoLyEmperor]

Bluesmith wrote...
Why do people defend this failure of balance? Do you enjoy having multiple "kill all enemies and win fight" keybinds pre-set for you by the devs? If you really just want to ROFLSTOMP you could just spawn infinite gold for yourself and buy all the best gear on easy. Does it ruin your enjoyment of the game when lore and balance are seperated for the purposes of gameplay?

Your argument is good and sound.  But, as with many things, reasonable people can disagree.

There have been "I win" builds for certain classes in almost every roleplaying game I've ever played (all the way back to pen and paper D&D).  Their existence has never ruined my enjoyment of a game. 

[tmp7704]

Bluesmith wrote...

Why do people defend this failure of balance?

Because having options is nicer than not having them. By having classes and abilities which cover gamut of power i can tailor the difficulty like i please and change it any time i wish. And i don't have to question why my mage isn't any stronger than any random rogue and yet these rogues aren't kept locked up and under close surveillance. "Balance" has certain use and more in some games than others (generally more in the multiplayer PvP ones like mentioned Starcraft) but the lack of balance can be source of fun equally well, it's just different.

Quite a pointless discussion though since the game is modable and there's mods out there which aim to reduce the power of mages. So everyone can have their fun the way they prefer it.

[Jimmhel]

And you are doing all that "ROFLSTOMP entire rooms full of mobs" on the highest difficulty setting?

Bluesmith wrote...

HoLyEmperor wrote...

Bluesmith wrote...

sacredl wrote...

>Is this spell bugged or just overpowered?

It is fine, what do you expect from high tier spell? To be not a strong one? ekhm

It's pretty disingenuous to classify anything as "high tier" in a game where a level 7 character can purchase pretty much any spell for, at most, four talent points. We're not talking about WoW talent trees where you pretty much must commit yourself to specific "overpowered" talents at the expense of others.

I personally think mages are rather well designed.  They allow for min/maxing, or flavor, whichever is your style.

If you find certain spells (force field, mass paralysis, etc.) to be overpowered, you don't have to use them.  You can play a mage the way you like.  For example, on my last playthrough, Wynne was my only mage and I used her only for healing and party buffing.  I didn't give her any offensive or crowd control spells at all (or, any that I had to buy as prerequisites, I took off the action bar).  DAO isn't an MMO.  There's no need to squeeze every last drop of juice out of your builds.

This argument has been thrown around as often as the balance complaints themselves have been. Always is it wrong.

No game should require you to forgo fully 1:3 of the playable classes (2:9 characters, 1:6 origin, 4:12 specialty classes, a fair portion of available gear, and far more than 1:3 of the usable abilities) in the game in order to preserve any semblance of a challenge. I want to use mages precisely because spells are cool, but I can't let myself use them because then I just ROFLSTOMP entire rooms full of mobs. It doesn't take much - a single Cone of Cold'd pack of mobs or a hexed boss can completely trivialize an encounter. I'm not talking about ignoring one or two BS spells. No, I'm talking about ignoring pretty much the entire class (except for, perhaps, heal spells).

In effect, there is content available to me that I cannot use (SotC, Cone of Cold, Fireball, Flaming Weapons, Force Field, and more) - a veritable plethora of cool special effects, strategies, and builds - all because Bioware is guilty of either a grave series of oversights or a flawed obsession with lore. 

Why do people defend this failure of balance? Do you enjoy having multiple "kill all enemies and win fight" keybinds pre-set for you by the devs? If you really just want to ROFLSTOMP you could just spawn infinite gold for yourself and buy all the best gear on easy. Does it ruin your enjoyment of the game when lore and balance are seperated for the purposes of gameplay?

[hoorayforicecream]

Bluesmith wrote...

Why do people defend this failure of balance?

Because it's not a competitive game. Balance is only necessary when you have to compete. With a single player game, you might as well be complaining that "nightmare" is harder than "easy". They're all player choices. The only real difference is that they don't really communicate that 2H warriors are weak compared to mages (which they probably should).

--S

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 06 décembre 2009 - 04:13 .

[Deflagratio]

Bluesmith wrote...

 It is working as intended, although I too sometimes have a hard time believing that Bioware truly intended for mages to be as overpowered as they are. 

Cone-of-Cold, Crushing Prison, Force Field, SotC, Fireball, (voice trails off as list continues)....

Mages aren't really overpowered, they have a weakness that can be exploited...

spell resistance, Alistair has a ton right now in my game. around 80% of all spells literally have no effect (Resist!). He practically cannot be killed by mages. Gaxkang could not even overpower the regeneration spell (Nightmare). So counters exist. If enemies were equipped like that, mages would be pointless, and we'd come full circle. But a few stand out as being grossly overpowered Namely the Force Field when used in conjunction with taunt.

Again though, if you look into the combat mechanics ANYTHING can become overpowered. Assassin-Duelist with Momentum, Rose's Thorn and a Crow Dagger can Backstab twice a second for 80 damage or more. Taking down the High Dragon in a few minutes (Armor penetation score willing).

A Tank with a huge defense bonus (120 or higher) and the Spellward can evade 80% of all attacks, except from maybe an Elite boss, but even 1 elite boss is never a threat with some form of healing.

A Damage Dealer (Berserker in particular) can start a fight with a Final Blow for 300-400 and with the Wades Dragonskin Armor can regenerate enough Stamina to do another technique every 10 seconds.

About the only thing that isn't overpowered if used "correctly" is 2 handed weapons. The only saving grace is mainly the Main Character is the only possible Warrior dual wield build. Sten doesn't get a second specialization (Which is gimp as hell, wtf) and Ogrhen comes laden with useless bonuses, wasting the path to Dual Wield mastery.

The point is, Honestly Dragon Age isn't that terrible when it comes to balance, I mean, compare to how broken a game like FFVII could get. Although I would gladly sign a petition over9000 times to create a "Nightmare+1" difficulty, that focuses on making Player Magic much weaker (Only Critter Rank susceptible to Shatter, Force Field lasts 1/4 as long when cast on party members, and suffers a huge penalty to Hostility. ect, though I think all Spell combos should remain incredibly strong, to further the allure to use them)

If you're still pissy about using tons of mages, just mod Dragon Age to unlock Manaclash to the spellcasters, that'll solve your problem about challenge pretty fast.

Just my 2 cents tho.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 06 décembre 2009 - 04:27 .