144 réponses à ce sujet

[SheffSteel]

It seems that v1.02 fixes the bug in Shimmering Shield.

[Haexpane]

People who say "balance is a non issue because it's single player" are simply ignoring every single player game ever made.



I would go 1 step further and say these trolls are dishonest and a bit dimwitted.

[SheffSteel]

Haexpane wrote...

People who say "balance is a non issue because it's single player" are simply ignoring every single player game ever made.

I would go 1 step further and say these trolls are dishonest and a bit dimwitted.

"There is no PVP. This is a single player game. Balance is not important."
I think it's been repeated so often that people just assume it's true without thinking it through. I mean, the premises are undoubtedly true, so who cares if the logic is faulty?

Modifié par SheffSteel, 07 décembre 2009 - 08:39 .

[Tirigon]

There is a new patch.

Havent played with it myself yet, but the descriptions say it makes many spells weaker.

So, all who whine about OP mages, go download it really quickly!

[Ibian]

http://ve3d.ign.com/...h-1-02-Released



Can anyone verify if shimmering shield actually drops when out of mana like intended? If so, 70% of my issues are fixed right there.

[Kavva]

Ibian wrote...

http://ve3d.ign.com/...h-1-02-Released

Can anyone verify if shimmering shield actually drops when out of mana like intended? If so, 70% of my issues are fixed right there.

Unfortunatly ... yes it goes down faster then light from op talent it became pretty useless ;(

[Ibian]

Its STILL pretty ****ing powerful. Just not a permanent buff anymore, but rather a situational spell. As intended.



Now they just need to do something about the potion chugging and mages will be fine.

[Tirigon]

Why should potions be "fixed"? I think its just right that you can use as many potions as you want, I mean, cant you drink more than once a minute or what?!

[Pennoyer]

thegreateski wrote...

It's a one player game.

class balance be DAMNED.

Still, if someone wants to play a class and that class is overpowered almost to the point of cheating, that is bad game design.  The developer should create classes and spells that are of some use in the game and try to avoid making things that make the game too easy.

[Hyunsai]

Well, obviously with the new patch (even if it's minor changes), Bioware thinks that Balance is IN FACT important in a solo game...

I wonder what all the "No balance solo game go back WoW" trolls will say now...

Modifié par Hyunsai, 08 décembre 2009 - 12:08 .

[ejikvkaske]

I think that AW is a good idea with an incorrect implementation. I proper fighter/mage character should be one that engages in melee while throwing around spells. Instead we have a character that activates a bunch of sustained (and mostly defensive) spells and then turns into a hack and slash machine. So rather than overpowered, I'd say AW is geared in the wrong direction.

Modifié par ejikvkaske, 08 décembre 2009 - 12:56 .

[Ibian]

Looking at the dragon age wiki, full AW spells gives +15 attack while combat magic is active and 5 from the specialization itself. Assuming you can spend 40 points on strength over the course of the game (or 30 and pick the specialization without actually taking any of its spells), a normal non-AW mage could have the same attack and similar enough damage, but constantly and without the nasty 50% fatigue. No shimmering shield or dodge bonus of course, but 4 more spell points to spend on other things and better spellcasting ability since there is no 50 mana upkeep and less fatigue.

A strength heavy mage would basically be what the arcane warrior was meant to be but didnt quite succeed at: a warrior who also uses spells at the same time. In theory, at least. Something to test once i find a new nocd patch.

Modifié par Ibian, 08 décembre 2009 - 01:30 .

[ejikvkaske]

Ibian wrote...

Looking at the dragon age wiki, full AW spells gives +15 attack while combat magic is active and 5 from the specialization itself. Assuming you can spend 40 points on strength over the course of the game (or 30 and pick the specialization without actually taking any of its spells), a normal non-AW mage could have the same attack and similar enough damage, but constantly and without the nasty 50% fatigue. No shimmering shield or dodge bonus of course, but 4 more spell points to spend on other things and better spellcasting ability since there is no 50 mana upkeep and less fatigue.

The problem is that the only attribute that mages need to pump is Magic, so those 40 points of strength would come out of the points a typical AW spends on Magic. That means that your Magic will be significantly lower, and therefore any spell you cast significantly weaker. What you'll end up with is a mage that sucks at spell casting, so you might as well play a warrior.

[Ibian]

Most pre-1.02 AWs might as well be playing warriors from what i hear.

The problem with your spellpower argument is that stats scale terribly in this game. The spells will be less powerful yes (though not by much as you say, certainly not enough to disqualify the build just based on that), but you can cast more of them than your typical AW. Im assuming you are not a munchkin who chugs pots all the time of course, in which case you wouldnt care about this idea in the first place.

The meaningful comparison is not, as you seemed to do, strength mage vs normal mage, but strength mage vs typical AW mage. Though granted, what is typical for AWs may have changed now that the SS bug is fixed.

Modifié par Ibian, 08 décembre 2009 - 01:48 .

[BlueEyes_Austin]

I gave Wynne AW just so I could put her in the Warden's Commander armor and toughen up my healbot.

[TheRealIncarnal]

0mar wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

It's a one player game.

class balance be DAMNED.

True, every class should get a nuke option at level 1, which eradicates all hostiles on the current map.

That exists on the PC actually.

[Ibian]

BlueEyes_Austin wrote...

I gave Wynne AW just so I could put her in the Warden's Commander armor and toughen up my healbot.

This is another thing i take issue with. The game allows it and it is working as intended, all well and good so far as that goes, but it feels... cheap. Kind of like endless mana by way of potions.

A frail old woman doesnt just suddenly become strong enough to wear heavy armor. And if she is holding it up with magic, well then she should take a hit to her mana similar to sustained spells, or something along those lines.

I realize this is just a personal quibble with the design, but i feel that the AW would have been better if it had simply given new spells that worked in some kind of synergy with melee, while still requiring strength to wear armor as usual. Something like the Diablo III wizard spells for melee maybe. Efficient mana to damage magic that activates when you take a swing at someone maybe? Possibly with the damage modified by strength (the power of the swing) instead of spellpower? In certain universes, magic is more an act of control than raw magical power. Why could it not be channeled with physical strength in another?

Modifié par Ibian, 08 décembre 2009 - 04:15 .

[fiodin2]

You can tell by the posted that some are single dimension players.  Trying to play something other than a fighter is beyond them and not to be considered as a complaint.  Bioware messed up and made a single dimension game that stinks.

[Tirigon]

I agree that AW isnt as cool and interesting as he could have been, but I disagree that its illogical to use spellpower for bodily strength, thus allowing you to hit and wear heavy armor. After all, a mage can shapeshift itself in animals by magic, or control the elements - how much easier would it be to strengthen your muscles, compared to that?

For me, the main problem is that you HAVE to be AW, if you want to be strong as a mage in later levels. The damage increase by spellpower is too low, from level 10 or 12 on spells arent woth casting anymore except if they disable the enemy. A Warrior or AW just deals better damage than your spells, and he doesnt have to spend mana to hit with his sword. I think its a good thing the new patch made spell disables a little weaker, but they should have increased their damage strongly, in return. So that you can actually play an non-AW mage and still be strong. It just sucks to see your cone of cold dealing a little damage, and then your warrior comes and deals more with a single attack.

[Matthew Young CT]

this forum should require a registered game.

[Tirigon]

Why?

[JaegerBane]

Ibian wrote...

 Well, that's how i feel anyhow. The concept is ok, but... making an armor using, sword swinging magic user is already quite possible without any specialist classes. He won't hit as hard as a warrior, unless he uses spells in which case he hits harder, and he won't have access to certain spells as soon as a normal mage would, but to the kind of people who would play a melee/magic hybrid in the first place this is not a bad tradeoff for versatility. It also allows for imitating various classes or professions from other games, such as paladins or shadowknights and such. Great for getting into character.

So why did they add the AW class if it is not really needed? Partly i suspect it was to get people to actually play a magical warrior, but they made a mistake somewhere along the way, mainly with the spell Shimmering Shield. 75% resistance to everything for basically free, on top of what is already a very potent combination of armor and magic, is simply too much. It's basically impossible to die with that spell active until you run out of health potions.

I'm amazed that this kind of thinking still endures.

If you don't like a class, don't play it. Stop trying to demand that because *you* don't like it, for whatever reason, *everyone* must be denied it.

I personally love the idea of playing an armoured, battlefield caster. It never made any sense to me why a caster who is fit enough to handle the rigours of the battlefield would shy away from wearing armour and wielding conventional weaponry. I *like* having the option of decking out my caster in Massive armour. I would imagine many others do, too.

I'm not demanding that you play the class. Kindly do me the courtesy of not demanding that I don't play it.

[Matthew Young CT]

Tirigon wrote...

Why?

people with pirated copies shouldn't be part of the community.

[Surberus]

Im going to come at this from a different angle - Not that AWs are overpowered, but that most other builds are under powered.

My definition comes from utility. I ended up playing a mage because I wanted a character that was flexible, could easily handle multiple situations. In my mind, the mage is the only class that offers this kind of flexible play, no one else has the same kind of crowd control/aoe/healing mix I can get with a mage.

Perhaps instead of nerfing the mage, you bolster the other classes (especially in stamina and timer durations).

And perhaps impose more strict adherence on mages where if you choose a certain spell set, say Primal, another one becomes locked out. So CC mages cant heal, and AOE mages cant CC and so on.



I dont think mages are OP, I just think they're the only really interesting class.



And for the record, I tend to play rogues/rangers in just about every rpg Ive ever played, and usually HATE casters.

[Tirigon]

Not having a registered game doesnt mean you are a pirate. I have bought the game legally, and redeemed my codes as well, but still I cant post in the limited areas for some reason.