60 réponses à ce sujet

[MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES]

IT'S LESS THAT WITCHER 2 IS A SHINING EXAMPLE OF HOW TACTICALLY DEEP RPG COMBAT CAN BE, AND MORE THAT IT WORKS VERY WELL AS AN ARPG THAT REWARDS PLANNING AND TACTICS. AFTER THE VARIOUS PATCHES, THE COMBAT SYSTEM FEELS LIKE AN ORGANIC WHOLE.

THE ISSUE THAT MOST PEOPLE HAVE WITH DRAGON AGE 2 COMBAT SEEMS TO BE TO BE A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF THE DEVELOPERS TRYING TO SHOEHORN ARPG ELEMENTS INTO WHAT IS STILL FUNDAMENTALLY A COMBAT SYSTEM DESIGNED FOR ISOMETRIC CRPGS.

WHILE I FEEL THAT THE ISOMETRIC RPG STYLE OF COMBAT LENDS ITSELF MUCH BETTER TO ACTUAL TACTICS AND HAS MUCH GREATER POTENTIAL THAN THE ARPG STYLE OF COMBAT, I WOULD RATHER PLAY A GAME WITH A GOOD ARPG COMBAT SYSTEM THAN AN ISOMETRIC-STYLE RPG COMBAT SYSTEM THAT IS TRYING TO BE AN ARPG COMBAT SYSTEM.

[Chromie]

If only you wouldn't type everything in caps.

[slimgrin]

Maria Caliban wrote...

FASherman wrote...

How can CD Projekt take Bioware's Aroura Engine and create The Witcher 2 Enhanced for Xbox that clearly outshines Dragon Age 2 in every aspect - game mechanics, graphics, open world, etc.

You're saying the Witcher 2's game mechanics are better than Dragon Age IIs? Have you actually played the game? Wait, it hasn't been release yet.

The stealth is better in that they have a real stealth system. The combat is horrible on PC. Even with the patching they've done, it's a twitch fest.

 

For all you that claim game 'x' sux. Great argument. And Federico, if you're gonna make sh*t up don't expect everyone to fall for it.

I've got something to say about twitch combat and it applies to all genres: go play SSF4 and tell me, for all it's twitchiness, that it lacks tactics. Go play Bayonetta, a hack n' slash game, and tell me it lacks skill. Try button mashing in BF3.  There's a bullsh*t notion on this site that twichy = no skill or no thinking. It is complete and utter bullsh*t.

TW2 as an action RPG tries to do both. And for my money it has better twitch-based combat than any other fantasy RPG I've played. DA2 isn't even in the same category afterall. It's still pause and play - at least thats what I got from the demo.

Modifié par slimgrin, 15 avril 2012 - 11:17 .

[FedericoV]

slimgrin wrote...

For all you that claim game 'x' sux. Great argument. And Federico, if you're gonna make sh*t up don't expect everyone to fall for it.

What I made up? I'm curious.

I expressed an opinion and as far as I know I'm not the only one who does not like TW2 combat.

 

Modifié par FedericoV, 15 avril 2012 - 06:41 .

[slimgrin]

FedericoV wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

For all you that claim game 'x' sux. Great argument. And Federico, if you're gonna make sh*t up don't expect everyone to fall for it.

What I had made up? I'm curious. I expressed an opinion and as far as I know I'm not the only one who does not like TW2 combat and think it's not good. 

I think it's great. Seems we're even.

[FedericoV]

slimgrin wrote...

I think it's great. Seems we're even.

Ah, so you do not agree with my opinion. Never seen in the internet . Just to say... don't see any reason to talk about "making sh*t up", especially since I said a lot of positive things about TW2 if you read my initial post. Whatever...

Modifié par FedericoV, 15 avril 2012 - 06:47 .

[sickpixie]

slimgrin wrote...

TW2 as an action RPG tries to do both. And for my money it has better twitch-based combat than any other fantasy RPG I've played.

Though they still didn't reach my ideal target, I think Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning and Dungeon Siege III did it better. Witcher 2 isn't responsive enough: All of Geralt's attacks use context-sensitive animations, so you have no idea what he's going to do until after you've attacked, and there's no animation canceling which makes it worse. This style works for the Batman games because you're usually fighting against people who can't deal or take much damage but CD Projekt also took inspiration from Demon's Souls without understanding that you need very precise controls to make fighting high damage dealing/soaking opponents fun.

[Meris]

 

Skelter192 wrote...

If only you wouldn't type everything in caps.

 
Done

MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES wrote...
It's less that the Witcher 2 is a shining example of how tactcally deep RPG combat can be, and more that it works very well as an Action RPG that rewards planning and tactics. After the various patches, the combat system feels like an organic whole.

The issue that most people have with Dragon Age 2 combat seems to be a direct consequence of the developers trying to shoehorn Action RPG elements into what is still a fundamentally combat system designed for top down CRPGs.

While I feel that the isometric RPG style of combat lends itself much better to actual tactics and has much greater potential than the Action RPGs style of combat, I'd rather play a game with a good Action RPG combat than an isometric-style RPG combat system that is trying to appeal to every RPG subgenre in existance.

Full caps is how I roll, <insert insult>

Added my interpretation of things.

For future reference:
 

[slimgrin]

sickpixie wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

TW2 as an action RPG tries to do both. And for my money it has better twitch-based combat than any other fantasy RPG I've played.

Though they still didn't reach my ideal target, I think Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning and Dungeon Siege III did it better. Witcher 2 isn't responsive enough: All of Geralt's attacks use context-sensitive animations, so you have no idea what he's going to do until after you've attacked, and there's no animation canceling which makes it worse. This style works for the Batman games because you're usually fighting against people who can't deal or take much damage but CD Projekt also took inspiration from Demon's Souls without understanding that you need very precise controls to make fighting high damage dealing/soaking opponents fun.

Responsiveness is tied to system hardware - more than it should be really - so if one has a moderate to weak system, you must play on low. No other way around it.

It takes about.01 seconds to realize which animation he's performing in order chain the next one. Strong and fast animation also have their own pacing, so memorizing the rhythm isn't hard.

BTW, which games let you cancel attack animations? Aside from SSF4.

Modifié par slimgrin, 15 avril 2012 - 10:49 .

[schalafi]

MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES wrote...

IT'S LESS THAT WITCHER 2 IS A SHINING EXAMPLE OF HOW TACTICALLY DEEP RPG COMBAT CAN BE, AND MORE THAT IT WORKS VERY WELL AS AN ARPG THAT REWARDS PLANNING AND TACTICS. AFTER THE VARIOUS PATCHES, THE COMBAT SYSTEM FEELS LIKE AN ORGANIC WHOLE.

THE ISSUE THAT MOST PEOPLE HAVE WITH DRAGON AGE 2 COMBAT SEEMS TO BE TO BE A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF THE DEVELOPERS TRYING TO SHOEHORN ARPG ELEMENTS INTO WHAT IS STILL FUNDAMENTALLY A COMBAT SYSTEM DESIGNED FOR ISOMETRIC CRPGS.

WHILE I FEEL THAT THE ISOMETRIC RPG STYLE OF COMBAT LENDS ITSELF MUCH BETTER TO ACTUAL TACTICS AND HAS MUCH GREATER POTENTIAL THAN THE ARPG STYLE OF COMBAT, I WOULD RATHER PLAY A GAME WITH A GOOD ARPG COMBAT SYSTEM THAN AN ISOMETRIC-STYLE RPG COMBAT SYSTEM THAT IS TRYING TO BE AN ARPG COMBAT SYSTEM.

Typing in caps on a forum is like screaming in someone's face. It isn't polite, and you have been asked several times to stop doing it. I'm afraid no one is going to take you very seriously when you exhibit such rude behavior.

[sickpixie]

slimgrin wrote...

Responsiveness is tied to system hardware - more than it should be really - so if one has a moderate to weak system, you must play on low. No other way around it.

My framerate's just fine, really it's just Geralt. I hope tomorrow's massive patch makes it good enough, The Witcher's EE definitely improved responsiveness from "bad" to "okay this isn't quite as bad."

It takes about.01 seconds to realize which animation he's performing in order chain the next one. Strong and fast animation also have their own pacing, so memorizing the rhythm isn't hard.

Knowing what he's going to do right after he does it doesn't help when he starts out with an animation I don't want him to use. It becomes an exercise in eggshell walking.

BTW, which games let you cancel attack animations? Aside from SSF4.

The two I listed at the beginning of my previous post have canceling.