207 réponses à ce sujet

[Leafs43]

 I'm sure its been asked before, but why would they contradict themselves.in such a fashion?

And it's not like this is a story line right at the beginning of the game either.  It's pretty much the 2nd to last mission before TIM's base.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Highly and horribly contrived writing. On both of the examples you bring up.

Modifié par Mr. Big Pimpin, 14 avril 2012 - 05:38 .

[Kalyppso]

They didn't necessarily write the game in order, and I thought it was confirmed two people wrote the ending while a full team wrote the game? That doesn't have to be true, but if so, poor communication?

[Evil Minion]

Erm.....

It's not actually a "contradiction?"

[Flextt]

Because it's artistic to build up your own rhetoric only to water it down through various quests (Luna VI, Overlord, ...), characters (EDI, Legion, the Geth loyalits in general, ...) and then Rannoch, thus crushing it.

Edit: That was highly sarcastic. I don't know personally, but it is one of my major issues and the reason I reject Starkid's logic from my very heart.

Modifié par Flextt, 14 avril 2012 - 05:27 .

[Leafs43]

Mademon wrote...

They didn't necessarily write the game in order, and I thought it was confirmed two people wrote the ending while a full team wrote the game? That doesn't have to be true, but if so, poor communication?

But if the whole team wrote rannoch and the geth story line, that means whoever wrote the ending would at least be privy to that info writing the ending wouldn't they?

I mean we can almost assume the ending came last because it seemed rushed.  So Rannnoch and it's storyline was developed first.



So did Mac and Casey both have a brain fart?

Modifié par Leafs43, 14 avril 2012 - 05:29 .

[Leafs43]

Evil Minion wrote...

Erm.....

It's not actually a "contradiction?"

Actually it is.

The geth wanted the creators to remain alive.  Legion says so and the geth's actions speak towards that.

[animallover11]

Seen this before, but WTG Bioware. <_<

[Kalyppso]

Leafs43 ...

So did Mac and Casey both have a brain fart?

I don't know who you're asking this, but if you want my opinion: Yes.

[sfam]

Bottom line, it makes no sense to have to kill off the Geth and EDI with the Destroy the Reapers ending. The ONLY reason I can see that we have all this absurd side stuff including the star child and the re-opening of the most awesome closure of the organic-synthetic struggle is because they needed faux emotional impact to the "kill the reaper" ending, otherwise, close to 100% of everyone would have chosen that option (aside from the few who sided with Cerberus).

Without those two deaths, there would have been no need for the star child or the shift in the Reapers from being the baddies in the galaxy to being mere henchmen for an idiot ghost thing.

[The Night Mammoth]

It's not a contradiction in absolute terms, as the Catalyst deals in something that is says is an eventuality, that could happen the future.

What it is though, is a breakdown in narrative cohesion, and ultimately narrative purpose. One guy wrote the Rannoch arc, another wrote the ending, and they flat out did not collaborate or proof-read the entire script in one go, so missed this big part. 

When you take a step back and actually evaluate what the Catalyst says, there's no contradiction. 

However, when you're playing the game after having just finished uniting the Geth and Quarians and seeing the truth of the Morning War, and then talk to the Catalyst, the effect is jarring.

"So synthetics will ultimately rebel and try to kill off all organic life? Hang on, what did I just talk to EDI about, and did I not just prove the Geth and Quarians can live side by side? What the ****?".

That was basically my reaction, and looking on it now, I'm convinced the Catalyst was full of ****, and even though I know the Indoctrination Theory isn't true, I choose to believe it so I can head-canon my own sequence of events. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 14 avril 2012 - 05:41 .

[Leafs43]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

It's not a contradiction in absolute terms, as the Catalyst deals in something that is says in an eventuality, that could happen the future.

What it is though, is a breakdown in narrative cohesion, and ultimately narrative purpose. One guy wrote the Rannoch arc, another wrote the ending, and they flat out did not collaborate or proof-read the entire script in one go.

The Earth being swallowed by the sun is an eventuallity, doesn't mean we have to blow up the Earth.


Anything is possible on a long enough timeline.

Modifié par Leafs43, 14 avril 2012 - 05:36 .

[SilentK]

Just because the Geth and Quarians are at peace at this moment if Shepard helped them and that option was possible it doesn't mean that that is written in stone. Perhaps the Synthetics evolve at a faster pace than the Biological beings, one day in the future the situation might be very different from what it is now. The Catalysts doesn't speak only of today. I see no contradiction is this specific point.

[The Night Mammoth]

Leafs43 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

It's not a contradiction in absolute terms, as the Catalyst deals in something that is says in an eventuality, that could happen the future.

What it is though, is a breakdown in narrative cohesion, and ultimately narrative purpose. One guy wrote the Rannoch arc, another wrote the ending, and they flat out did not collaborate or proof-read the entire script in one go.

The Earth being swallowed by the sun is an eventuallity, doesn't mean we have to blow up the Earth.


Anything is possible on a long enough timeline.

I know, and I think the Catalyst is talking crap. I edited my post to add to my point, sorry. 

[Leafs43]

SilentK wrote...

Just because the Geth and Quarians are at peace at this moment if Shepard helped them and that option was possible it doesn't mean that that is written in stone. Perhaps the Synthetics evolve at a faster pace than the Biological beings, one day in the future the situation might be very different from what it is now. The Catalysts doesn't speak only of today. I see no contradiction is this specific point.

Geth have not destroyed the Quarians for 300 years and have had no desire to do so for very specific reasons.


I cannot remember the line, but it was along the lines of, "Creators give their creations purpose and without the creators, the geth would have no purpose."

[Jenuviel Jones]

They did it, I assume, to make your choices at the end more difficult, which seems to be supported by frequent mentions within the game prior to the last section about "making hard choices."

You know that synthetics and organics can co-exist, at least in the short-term, which makes it harder to pick Destroy. You know the Illusive Man was all about controlling the reapers, which makes it harder to pick Control. I think they wanted to present a situation in which there were no easy decisions.The problem is that, rather than make the choices seem deep or bittersweet, it made them feel like failures.

I lost track of the number of times during the series that someone said that a particular task was impossible, after which Shepard (or one of her teammates) responded with a line about going to Ilos, coming back from the dead, etc. There was a pattern established (and reinforced with dialogue) in which Shepard could, with enough effort, overcome seemingly impossible odds. Having that element plucked out of the narrative in the final moments was...jarring.

Modifié par Jenuviel Jones, 14 avril 2012 - 05:45 .

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Leafs43 wrote...

And it's not like this is a story line right at the beginning of the game either.  It's pretty much the 2nd to last mission before TIM's base.

No it's not.

[ahandsomeshark]

because artistic integrity

[Leafs43]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

And it's not like this is a story line right at the beginning of the game either.  It's pretty much the 2nd to last mission before TIM's base.

No it's not.

The only main mission after Rannoch I can recall was Horizon.  Then after that was TIM's base.

So Rannoch was one of the last stops, at least for me.

[Hudathan]

It's no contradiction.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Leafs43 wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

And it's not like this is a story line right at the beginning of the game either.  It's pretty much the 2nd to last mission before TIM's base.

No it's not.

The only main mission after Rannoch I can recall was Horizon.  Then after that was TIM's base.

So Rannoch was one of the last stops, at least for me.

The geth consensus mission is not the last Rannoch mission. Also, you forget Thessia. Plus, there are those side quests.

[Leafs43]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

And it's not like this is a story line right at the beginning of the game either.  It's pretty much the 2nd to last mission before TIM's base.

No it's not.

The only main mission after Rannoch I can recall was Horizon.  Then after that was TIM's base.

So Rannoch was one of the last stops, at least for me.

The geth consensus mission is not the last Rannoch mission. Also, you forget Thessia. Plus, there are those side quests.

Thessia is so short and forgettable and I generally do side quests first to get them out of the way.

[movieguyabw]

*shrug*

Maybe the person who wrote the ending wasn't at any of the meetings when they discussed the Quarian/Geth scenes. :\\

[SilentK]

Leafs43 wrote...

SilentK wrote...

Just because the Geth and Quarians are at peace at this moment if Shepard helped them and that option was possible it doesn't mean that that is written in stone. Perhaps the Synthetics evolve at a faster pace than the Biological beings, one day in the future the situation might be very different from what it is now. The Catalysts doesn't speak only of today. I see no contradiction is this specific point.

Geth have not destroyed the Quarians for 300 years and have had no desire to do so for very specific reasons.


I cannot remember the line, but it was along the lines of, "Creators give their creations purpose and without the creators, the geth would have no purpose."

I guess it comes down to each person deciding themselves how they see it   =)

Personally I could very well envision a future with the far more advanced synthetics takes a look at the slow moving biological ones and say, "These guys really need some help, and direction, in their lives". So for me that specific point works. Hmm.... I guess I see it more as the Geth and EDI have just encountered being AI, they have much further to go. And what happens when they get there. Hmm... I might just be overly suspicious, lol

[TheJiveDJ]

For the love of artistic integrity, can we just ignore these plot holes please? K thanks.

Modifié par TheJiveDJ, 14 avril 2012 - 05:52 .