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[GunMoth]

INTRODUCTION

After seeing the PAX footage I was pretty intrigued by some of the challenges that the team has been tackling. After listening to everyone talk about "finding a balance" I wanted to hear what you guys have to say about certain demands within our community. At PAX, it was shown that many of our requests for future installments were quite conflicted. Some could be preference, but I felt most were fans who were trying to set realistic expectations for what Bioware COULD deliver. For example: People wanting the return of a silent protagonist because they feel that the financial strain/limitations of hiring a voice actor caused the "origin / choose your race / more dialog" options to disappear instead of asking for both a voice actor AND race options (though I understand some people simply dont want voices because it breaks immersion for them). We also have to consider Bioware/EA's need to appeal to a larger audience. Whether that be monetizing or making certain features more accessible. 

Here is a challenge: Try to make things marketable / accessable / monetize-able while also making it YOUR ideal Dragon Age 3. OR find examples of games that have been successful in the past while also maintaining their appeal to a niche demographic (Dark Souls / Demons Souls being two) 

Disclaimer: I am not a developer and I have absolutely no idea what can make or break a feature. I have no idea what can cause financial or technical limitations. Many of these ultimatums are educated guesses that are entirely inaccurate. But I love speculating and trying to find creative compromises. In fact, hearing some of the fan ideas are often extremely entertaining and inspiring.



QUESTIONS: 


1. Dialog and Voice Acting
Conflict: How could Bioware maintain a cinematic feel to make players/casual players feel more involved with the narrative while also giving players who want more of an immersive/traditional role playing game experience the feeling of player agency / give the game an immersive quality? 

2. Return of Race / Origins
Conflict: How could Bioware give us the ability to have an origin / background / race while also not putting a strain on any technical / dialog limitations? OR would you rather we be given one choice (Hawke or someone else)? 

3. Difficulty and Strategy
Conflict: How could Bioware give the audience a feeling of responsive / fluid combat while also developing a truly in depth combat engine for players who want something challenging and engaging?

4. Artistic Direction
Conflict: How can we give distinguishable "personalities" to the characters cosmetics while also allowing us to customize them? Would you be willing to sacrifice graphics for something else? How did you feel about the art change in DA 2 and DA: Origins? What is the most visually appealing fantasy game to you? What defines a "dark fantasy?"

5. Player Agency
Conflict: Do you guys want player agency that spans over the course of many games? Or would you rather have a game that carries over a few things but has a LOT of important choices that effect your immediate gameplay in that installment? For example: Witcher 1 and Witcher 2 have very few things that carry over, but a lot of your choices are very "grey" in terms of morality and require very careful thought as many of them can ultimately screw you over or have a HUGE impact on your game. Just not on a sequel etc. OR would you guys like something more like Mass Effect where you have to work to establish the trust of certain races / societies over the course of several games?

6. Character Development / Romances
Conflict: Did you enjoy DA: Origins characters better or DA: 2's characters? Why? What would you do to add more depth to romances / character development? What made certain characters stand out to you? How could Bioware make something that isnt an "ancient evil" feel more compelling? 

7. ANCIENT EVIL
Conflict: How can Bioware successfully break free of the "ancient evil" type narrative device? How could the issues of DA2 been more successfull? Do we need an ancient evil?

Modifié par GunMoth, 15 avril 2012 - 12:46 .

[GunMoth]

CONCLUSION:

For those of you who are not familiar with the fighting game community, Yoshinori Ono recently stepped down from developing games for Capcom after Street Fighter x Tekken's negative feedback. He recently tweeted at the Skullgirls twitter (an independently made fighting game)

"I think it's a good crystallization of what it is to genuinely create a game where your hands aren't so tightly bound by a publisher." 

While I'm not here to smack talk EA/Bioware's relationship as I have no REAL foundation for that claim, I'd like to think of ways we can (as a fan base) help Bioware succeed as a company. I'm not trying to demonize EA either. I understand the realistic expectations from companies and how things are run. I'd like to see Bioware succeed and I'd love to find more ways to find a format that not only sells well, but caters to us as fans of the role playing genre. 

This is also ultra positive thinking as I know this thread might not even make it to any of the developers. 

Modifié par GunMoth, 15 avril 2012 - 01:09 .

[Maria Caliban]

*read post*
*reloads*
*reads post*

Much better.

[GunMoth]

Maria Caliban wrote...

*read post*
*reloads*
*reads post*

Much better.

Yeah text color really messes up everything. I figure I could just copy/paste my answers in a separate post. Uguuu. 

[GunMoth]

MyAnswers :x

1. Dialog and Voice Acting

Adding more dialog options that reflect the players class, race, gender, companions who are in your party, and information you have come across in previous sections. Even if there aren't many dialog options it adds more replayability and an illusion of player agency. Also make the "good / bad" options a bit more ambiguous (don't put them in the same place every time "top option = paragon"). Make the player think about what they'd like to say. Someone in the gameplay suggestions thread said that you could press "shift" or right click options to see the full text. Therefore allowing people to selection which option is truly what they want to say. Paraphrasing is misleading. 

As for voice acting, I honestly do not mind a silent protagonist even if a given company could afford to hire a different voice actor for every race/gender/whatever. Though I do understand that for many casual players it fleshes out their character a bit more for them. Though I would gladly give that up to have the race option back. 

2. Return of Race / Origins

I'm fine with something more ambiguous like Skyrim where you start off as a "prisoner from wherever" as it allows the player to develop their background/role play. However, for a casual player you are going to need a "call to arms" or "hero's calling" type event to occur in order to make the player feel that their character is integral to the plot. 
I would trade voice acting for a chance to play as a female tal-vashoth who escaped from the Qun's gender / societal expectations and is fighting off the spread of the Qun. Assuming the Qunari is an important part of DA3. Cough. Cough. 

3. Difficulty and Strategy

"To the first point, I would say I think a lot more than just FF should be customizable. Around launch time I talked about this but one of the things I would have liked to see is a list of rules (FF, damage reduction, immunities...etc) and an ability to scale them. Each one would have a numerical assignment and then based on the sum of all of them it would give you a score and a rough difficulty term for convenience sake. So for example, I might play at a 92 (of 100) and that would qualify as 'Insane' and another player may have very similar things as me but some things turned way down and have a 77 and be 'Hard'. The label would really just give a way for you to better gauge how hard the game will be relative to a more traditional system." -- Luke Barret the hero of the people

I would also like a system more like Demon's Souls or Skyrim that allows you to equip anything to anyone. However the equipment should have stat parameters that determine whether or not said character can use them. It should also be more beneficial for certain characters to min/max/specialize in higher difficulties. 

4. Artistic Direction

I felt the aesthetic of DA2 was a step in the wrong direction. I have a large amount of respect for the art team, but the emphasis on "Dark fantasy violence / sex" went a bit overboard. Especially with the new stylistic art approach. I feel that a subtle / classy / elegent touch on those subjects is the way to go. The Witcher 2 showed exposed body parts and was like "these genitals are beautiful" rather than making a big deal out of it. (Though Witcher 1 was extremely immature in terms of the sex department). Dark Souls also used sexual pandering, but with purpose. DARK SOULS SPOILERS: There is an NPC Gwynevere who has large breasts and she "convinces the player" to help her. Turns out the real Gwynevere isn't there and the fake one you speak to is an illusion cast by her younger brother to trick the player character into oppressing/destroying mankind. Ruh Roh. 

5. Player Agency

:C Both? This one is hard for me. I honestly like the first one better as it allows Bioware a bit more freedom with new installments / their overall narrative. 

6. Character Development / Romances

Origins better. Their problems didn't overshadow who they were/their personalities, where as Fenris, Merril and Anders WERE their problems. It made both broships and friendships extremely hard to achieve emotionally in this game. As a heterosexual female I found myself wishing I could romance Aveline.  However, I would love to see more complex romances that require more effort. For example, I LOVED Sten in DAO. He required very specific dialog / storyline progression points to unlock certain dialog. You also needed to earn his respect so that he could see you as a formidable equal. I'm a bit tired of LIs who look up to you / see you as this warrior goddess that is awe-inspiring. 

7. ANCIENT EVIL

After playing the Mass Effect series I can say with complete confidence that you don't need an ancient evil. I felt that I sat through the plot mainly to see the conclusions of the Geth x Quarian, the Salarians x Krogan, the Rachni x Society etc. There are so many gray spiritual, ethical and societal issues that require a lot of critical thinking and analysis. While they didn't have any immediate negative reprocussions I always found myself really inspired by a lot of the minor issues in the game. Moreso than the inigmatic reapers. You don't need an ancient evil. You need to challenge your audience. DA2 was close, but many of the issues were muddled with other issues and it was all kind of jumbled into a twisted narrative. Though I will say, the act with the Qunari sent me on an emotional rollercoaster. If there were more good mages in Kirkwall I think that the oppression would have been way easier to empathize with. But every mage we encountered was evil. D: 

Modifié par GunMoth, 15 avril 2012 - 12:53 .

[wowpwnslol]

The game difficulty is quite easy to solve: make the AI more "smart" on higher difficulty levels. No more of making bosses have million HP and one hit kill damage.

[GunMoth]

wowpwnslol wrote...

The game difficulty is quite easy to solve: make the AI more "smart" on higher difficulty levels. No more of making bosses have million HP and one hit kill damage.

But much of that could easily be countered with many of the broken game mechanics. Such as the Berserker build that literally turns Nightmare into a session of Dynasty Warriors. 

I think one of the main issues is trying to balance difficulties between casual players and players who are looking for a difficult / engaging strategy game. Not a game where enemies can literally fall onto the map from any angle. There also needs a bit more effort put into map design as well. More "Choke points" / strategic elements.

[wowpwnslol]

GunMoth wrote...

But much of that could easily be countered with many of the broken game mechanics. Such as the Berserker build that literally turns Nightmare into a session of Dynasty Warriors. 

The 2h warriors in DA2 were not unbalanced to due broken skills - in fact the talent trees were perfect. The thing that made them seem overpowered is relative crappyness of other 2 classes. Such as mage's underpowered AoE spells and CC which lasted like 1 second on NM or rogue's poor survivability and inability to deal with numerous trash mobs, being pretty much a single target wonder.Warrior was done right. Other classes were screwed.

[GunMoth]

wowpwnslol wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

But much of that could easily be countered with many of the broken game mechanics. Such as the Berserker build that literally turns Nightmare into a session of Dynasty Warriors. 

The 2h warriors in DA2 were not unbalanced to due broken skills - in fact the talent trees were perfect. The thing that made them seem overpowered is relative crappyness of other 2 classes. Such as mage's underpowered AoE spells and CC which lasted like 1 second on NM or rogue's poor survivability and inability to deal with numerous trash mobs, being pretty much a single target wonder.Warrior was done right. Other classes were screwed.

Okay, yes, this.
You're right.
Though I think its my perspective on what I was expecting from DA2. I wasn't expecting that nightmare COULD be played as a hack and slash, but was expecting it to be played as a strategy/commandwheel/pause and play type game. The fact that the other classes can't perform as well makes it seem OP, rather that them simply being UP (though the mages were definitely UP -- I saw the assassins as more of the middle ground "this is how the game should feel on nightmare" type class.) 

Hmhmhm. 

[GunMoth]

Filament wrote...

There is a 'nuclear warfare' mage build that trashes the game pretty much as easily as the berserker builds do, I believe.

I'm actually replaying through the game on nightmare as a mage and came across that and the blood/primal build. It seems to require a bit more effort as Hawke gets overshadowed by his/her mage companion counterparts. Though it seems to work well so far. 


Definitely not as good as the Berserker. At least not at the point Im at anyway. 

Modifié par GunMoth, 15 avril 2012 - 01:26 .

[LolaLei]

1. Dialog and Voice Acting - Hm, that's a tough one. I have no idea how to answer that one.

2. Return of Race / Origins - There are two ways that I can think of off the top of my head that they could do this. The first taking the approach of ME1, where you pick from a set of character background options (orphan, sole survivor etc) and companions/NPC's would react to you accordingly. OR they could give you origin epilogues based on your characters class, so if you played as a rogue then you'd start off on the streets doing pick pocketing mini quests or something until you're caught and then the game really kicks in, or if you play as a Mage maybe you're part of the Mage rebellion and you do a bunch of mini quests helping the leader to gather resources to attack the Templars etc; so you'd still get your DA:O style origins epilogues but it would be on a smaller scale, based on class instead of your characters race.

3. Difficulty and Strategy - A balance between the DA:O and DA2 combat systems would need to be implimented. Maybe you could have the option to adjust things in the gameplay menu to make the game more old school RPG strategy based in combat or fast paced like in DA2.

4. Artistic Direction - I like the direction Bioware suggested at PAX regarding characters physical customisation, having their iconic outfit but adding different pieces of clothing/armor to it so that it becomes personal to each individual character. As for the art style, I didn't mind how DA2 looked but it did lack a distinct atmosphere. I felt that although Kirkwall looked depressing it was due to the areas being dull and samey rather than it being depressing in a dark foreboding way. I'd like to see the art style in DA3 have ambience, with each area looking drastically different to the other, so if we're at an Orlesian ball then the art style should be flamboyant and luxurious, but then we get thrown into the dungeons and the art style changes drastically to become dark, dank and eerie. Background noise/ambience should play a big part in this too as sound effects often add something extra to the feel and immersion of a game.

5. Player Agency - I think the big choices we make in the games should definitely carry over to the latest one, but I would also like to see the little things we done play apart in DA3 too. To use ME3 as an example, in ME1 we had the option to collected Matriarch Dilinaga's Writings and purchase the Elkoss Combine Armory License. During the course 3 games Shepard had a harmless fan who idolised him/her, by ME3 you meet him again and discover he has a he has a doctoral degree in Xenoscience, if you collected up all the data from the first game and was nice to him every time you saw him then he gives you his dissertation on dark energy matter and you're able to use the Elkoss License and Matriarch Dilinaga's Writings to gain more war assets to add to your final assault. So a seemingly small and pointless mission you'd completely forgotten about in ME1 ended up playing a big role in the ME3. I'd like to see things like that happen in DA3.

6. Character Development / Romances - Here's a big issue for me. I absolutely adored the characters and relationships/romances in DA:O because you were given the option to get to know them at your leisure throughout the whole game. You'd meet them as acquaintances, gradually find out more about them as the friendship blossomed into something deep and meaningful, then slowly flirt options would be introduced until you could decide if you wanted to take the relationship onto the next level and have a full blown romance with them or turn them down. In DA2 even though the characters were well written the whole thing felt like a flirt/flirt/kiss/shag/kiss event and as such I wasn't able to bond with them the way I had in DA:O. In DA2 you couldn't just pop in for a chat to get to know them better and they never really went into details about their past beyond what seemed to define them (in Fenris' case being a slave.) I already know Anders hates the mistreatment of Mages and Merrill wants to fix her magic mirror but what else defines them? What do they enjoying doing? What was their childhood like? What happened to the cute/sad little stories that the characters in DA:O used to tell us about? Why can't I give Anders a hug/kiss whenever I bloody well want? It felt as though DA2 rush the companion interactions and thats something I hope changes in DA3, I'd like to see them to revert back to the depth of interactions we had in DA:O.

7. ANCIENT EVIL - I have no problem with Bioware using the ancient evil plot device or a more political Mages/Templars type story arc. The import thing they need to do is to make sure the story is clear, epic and executed/implimented correctly. If they continue with the Mage/Templar story arc from DA2 then this time round they need to make sure that both sides are easier to sympathise with, because the Templars would go on about how terrible the Mages are yet we only ever saw the Mages doing bad things in retaliation to being abused by the Templars, you'd visit the Gallows and hear about how the Templars would rape and torture the Mages but you never really heard much about the Templars plight and their suffering (aside from the brief description Cullen gives about his torture at the hands of the Mages in DA:O.) The ratio of sympathetic Templar characters compared to the vast numbers of sympathetic Mage characters were vastly out numbered and as such most people considered the Templars to be the bad guys, which is something Bioware confirmed that they didn't want to happen, it was supposed to be subjective dependant on the players own beliefs.

And thats my 2 cents worth lol.

Modifié par LolaLei, 15 avril 2012 - 01:42 .

[wowpwnslol]

Another point that I would like to mention, which might not be that important to others is solo play. In solo play the warrior has enough survivability and versatility to survive, while other classes seem to struggle. An example: Yesterday I was playing the escort the Qunari mage quest on my solo mage. The final fight features enemies immune to both fire and eletricity. Trying to kill them with winter's grasp/cone of cold and autoattacks is frustrating to say the least. With warrior it was a simple matter of hitting mighty blow, scythe and using an occasional potion until everything was dead. With mage, I had problems outdamaging the commander's healing aura thanks to crappy damage and long cooldown on spells.

[GunMoth]

 Thank you Lola! And I love the idea about the mini origins stories. Some of them (In DA:O) were pretty lengthy compared to others. While I liked it, they could easily pull off shorter ones that aren't as heavy on any technical / financial level. 

Just enough to give you context on whats happening in the world and establish who you are and what you may be involved in / or who you may betray in the long run (like if youre a mage rebel who feels like things have gotten out of hand. A human seeker / chantry person who may disagree with the circle and possibly support mages. Or -- because I'm not letting go of this Qunari thing -- A tal vashoth who has an entirely distinct perspective because of the society you came from. 

There's quite a bit of wiggle room given a lot of the things they hinted at at the end of DA2. 

And I COMPLETELY agree with the companion thing.  
I also don't mind the ancient evil but I feel its possible to tell a compelling story without it. 

[GunMoth]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Another point that I would like to mention, which might not be that important to others is solo play. In solo play the warrior has enough survivability and versatility to survive, while other classes seem to struggle. An example: Yesterday I was playing the escort the Qunari mage quest on my solo mage. The final fight features enemies immune to both fire and eletricity. Trying to kill them with winter's grasp/cone of cold and autoattacks is frustrating to say the least. With warrior it was a simple matter of hitting mighty blow, scythe and using an occasional potion until everything was dead. With mage, I had problems outdamaging the commander's healing aura thanks to crappy damage and long cooldown on spells.

This is quite true. 

In my answer to my own questions I included something that one of the dudes said about difficulty being changed to a number / slider system. Its hard for me to articulate so go to my "gameplay section" on that post.

But I felt (In ME2) that Biotics suffered the same issue. Maybe if cooldown was faster and spells did less damage, but you could do combos that did something similar to Biotic Explosions in Mass Effect 3? 

[LolaLei]

GunMoth wrote...

 Thank you Lola! And I love the idea about the mini origins stories. Some of them (In DA:O) were pretty lengthy compared to others. While I liked it, they could easily pull off shorter ones that aren't as heavy on any technical / financial level. 

Just enough to give you context on whats happening in the world and establish who you are and what you may be involved in / or who you may betray in the long run (like if youre a mage rebel who feels like things have gotten out of hand. A human seeker / chantry person who may disagree with the circle and possibly support mages. Or -- because I'm not letting go of this Qunari thing -- A tal vashoth who has an entirely distinct perspective because of the society you came from. 

There's quite a bit of wiggle room given a lot of the things they hinted at at the end of DA2. 

And I COMPLETELY agree with the companion thing.  
I also don't mind the ancient evil but I feel its possible to tell a compelling story without it. 

An origin epilogue was severly missing in DA2 and it was something they could have easily implimented because there was only one choice of character (Hawke.) All they had to do was add an epilogue where Hawke and his family are going about their daily lives in Ferelden, you do a bunch of mini quests like killing a bunch of spiders in the families basement or conversing with a bunch of locals in town etc, y'know normal mudane things to give you the chance to immerse yourself in the role of Hawke and get to know his family, then all of a sudden the blight could kick in and their home gets destroyed *cue Hawke 'n' co escaping to Kirkwall.*

Witnessing the loss Hawke suffered would have helped the player bond with their character and his family, so when Bethany/Carver died at the hands of the dark spawn and his mum gets killed you'd actually sympathise with Hawkes plight and grow more attached to him.

For DA3 I want them to SHOW us the extent of our new protagonists plight, not just TELL us. I need to witness important events like that for myself.

[GunMoth]

LolaLei wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

 Thank you Lola! And I love the idea about the mini origins stories. Some of them (In DA:O) were pretty lengthy compared to others. While I liked it, they could easily pull off shorter ones that aren't as heavy on any technical / financial level. 

Just enough to give you context on whats happening in the world and establish who you are and what you may be involved in / or who you may betray in the long run (like if youre a mage rebel who feels like things have gotten out of hand. A human seeker / chantry person who may disagree with the circle and possibly support mages. Or -- because I'm not letting go of this Qunari thing -- A tal vashoth who has an entirely distinct perspective because of the society you came from. 

There's quite a bit of wiggle room given a lot of the things they hinted at at the end of DA2. 

And I COMPLETELY agree with the companion thing.  
I also don't mind the ancient evil but I feel its possible to tell a compelling story without it. 

An origin epilogue was severly missing in DA2 and it was something they could have easily implimented because there was only one choice of character (Hawke.) All they had to do was add an epilogue where Hawke and his family are going about their daily lives in Ferelden, you do a bunch of mini quests like killing a bunch of spiders in the families basement or conversing with a bunch of locals in town etc, y'know normal mudane things to give you the chance to immerse yourself in the role of Hawke and get to know his family, then all of a sudden the blight could kick in and their home gets destroyed *cue Hawke 'n' co escaping to Kirkwall.*

Witnessing the loss Hawke suffered would have helped the player bond with their character and his family, so when Bethany/Carver died at the hands of the dark spawn and his mum gets killed you'd actually sympathise with Hawkes plight and grow more attached to him.

For DA3 I want them to SHOW us the extent of our new protagonists plight, not just TELL us. I need to witness important events like that for myself.

This is true, especially given the circumstances under which we meet Hawke's family. I felt some of the dialog that Hawke's mother says is very un-motherly. Such as blaming you for things in a fit of grief. No parent would ever do that to a child. At least, no parent I would have an emotional attachment for. Also, life as an apostate would be a fantastic origins story.

While many people criticize Bioware using the same format (hero's call) you could say the same for Zelda, Elder Scrolls etc. I want them to try new things of course, but it was painfully obvious that they wanted to experiment with DA2. Rather than keeping things that fans liked in the process they removed a lot of important experiences that a fantasy game should offer. 

[LolaLei]

GunMoth wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

 Thank you Lola! And I love the idea about the mini origins stories. Some of them (In DA:O) were pretty lengthy compared to others. While I liked it, they could easily pull off shorter ones that aren't as heavy on any technical / financial level. 

Just enough to give you context on whats happening in the world and establish who you are and what you may be involved in / or who you may betray in the long run (like if youre a mage rebel who feels like things have gotten out of hand. A human seeker / chantry person who may disagree with the circle and possibly support mages. Or -- because I'm not letting go of this Qunari thing -- A tal vashoth who has an entirely distinct perspective because of the society you came from. 

There's quite a bit of wiggle room given a lot of the things they hinted at at the end of DA2. 

And I COMPLETELY agree with the companion thing.  
I also don't mind the ancient evil but I feel its possible to tell a compelling story without it. 

An origin epilogue was severly missing in DA2 and it was something they could have easily implimented because there was only one choice of character (Hawke.) All they had to do was add an epilogue where Hawke and his family are going about their daily lives in Ferelden, you do a bunch of mini quests like killing a bunch of spiders in the families basement or conversing with a bunch of locals in town etc, y'know normal mudane things to give you the chance to immerse yourself in the role of Hawke and get to know his family, then all of a sudden the blight could kick in and their home gets destroyed *cue Hawke 'n' co escaping to Kirkwall.*

Witnessing the loss Hawke suffered would have helped the player bond with their character and his family, so when Bethany/Carver died at the hands of the dark spawn and his mum gets killed you'd actually sympathise with Hawkes plight and grow more attached to him.

For DA3 I want them to SHOW us the extent of our new protagonists plight, not just TELL us. I need to witness important events like that for myself.

This is true, especially given the circumstances under which we meet Hawke's family. I felt some of the dialog that Hawke's mother says is very un-motherly. Such as blaming you for things in a fit of grief. No parent would ever do that to a child. At least, no parent I would have an emotional attachment for. Also, life as an apostate would be a fantastic origins story.

While many people criticize Bioware using the same format (hero's call) you could say the same for Zelda, Elder Scrolls etc. I want them to try new things of course, but it was painfully obvious that they wanted to experiment with DA2. Rather than keeping things that fans liked in the process they removed a lot of important experiences that a fantasy game should offer. 

In a way I'm kinda glad they ballsed DA2 up by using a completely new main character and a completely new storyline, imagine if DA2 had been a continuation of DA:O with our Warden or with the Morrigan/Flemeth/God baby story arc and completely messed it up by rushing it out of the door and cutting corners, that would have been absolutely gutting!

So it's a good thing that they decided to experiment with Hawkes story, hopefully they've learnt enough via trial and error to come up with something much better for DA3. I doubt it'll be as good as DA:O because theres no way they'll have 5 + years to spend on making it but I think it'll definitely be a lot better than DA2... or at least I bloody hope so anyway!

Modifié par LolaLei, 15 avril 2012 - 02:05 .

[GunMoth]

LolaLei wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

 Thank you Lola! And I love the idea about the mini origins stories. Some of them (In DA:O) were pretty lengthy compared to others. While I liked it, they could easily pull off shorter ones that aren't as heavy on any technical / financial level. 

Just enough to give you context on whats happening in the world and establish who you are and what you may be involved in / or who you may betray in the long run (like if youre a mage rebel who feels like things have gotten out of hand. A human seeker / chantry person who may disagree with the circle and possibly support mages. Or -- because I'm not letting go of this Qunari thing -- A tal vashoth who has an entirely distinct perspective because of the society you came from. 

There's quite a bit of wiggle room given a lot of the things they hinted at at the end of DA2. 

And I COMPLETELY agree with the companion thing.  
I also don't mind the ancient evil but I feel its possible to tell a compelling story without it. 

An origin epilogue was severly missing in DA2 and it was something they could have easily implimented because there was only one choice of character (Hawke.) All they had to do was add an epilogue where Hawke and his family are going about their daily lives in Ferelden, you do a bunch of mini quests like killing a bunch of spiders in the families basement or conversing with a bunch of locals in town etc, y'know normal mudane things to give you the chance to immerse yourself in the role of Hawke and get to know his family, then all of a sudden the blight could kick in and their home gets destroyed *cue Hawke 'n' co escaping to Kirkwall.*

Witnessing the loss Hawke suffered would have helped the player bond with their character and his family, so when Bethany/Carver died at the hands of the dark spawn and his mum gets killed you'd actually sympathise with Hawkes plight and grow more attached to him.

For DA3 I want them to SHOW us the extent of our new protagonists plight, not just TELL us. I need to witness important events like that for myself.

This is true, especially given the circumstances under which we meet Hawke's family. I felt some of the dialog that Hawke's mother says is very un-motherly. Such as blaming you for things in a fit of grief. No parent would ever do that to a child. At least, no parent I would have an emotional attachment for. Also, life as an apostate would be a fantastic origins story.

While many people criticize Bioware using the same format (hero's call) you could say the same for Zelda, Elder Scrolls etc. I want them to try new things of course, but it was painfully obvious that they wanted to experiment with DA2. Rather than keeping things that fans liked in the process they removed a lot of important experiences that a fantasy game should offer. 

In a way I'm kinda glad they ballsed DA2 up by using a completely new main character and a completely new storyline, imagine if DA2 had been a continuation of DA:O with our Warden or with the Morrigan/Flemeth/God baby story arc and completely messed it up by rushing it out of the door and cutting corners, that would have been absolutely gutting!

So in a way it's a good thing they decided to experiment with Hawkes story, hopefully they've learnt enough via trial and error to come up with something much better for DA3. I doubt it'll be as good as DA:O because theres no way they'll have 5 + years to spend on making it but I think it'll definitely be a lot better than DA2... or at least I bloody hope so anyway!

Mhmhm! I wouldnt have wanted to continue the Warden's story. It works in Mass Effect, but Dragon Age has SO much I want to be involved in all over the place and there is a lot of potential for great origins/character development. History isn't fixed or solved by one person. There are many. It gives you the chance to meet new characters etc etc  

Yeahyeah, I liked the way DA2 ended. I just hated the process. By the time it all wrapped up I was like "OOOhhhh this is really just a prologue for DA3. Okay." and I love the Qunari / Mage conflict. So I was pretty excited. Oh and I forgot to mention your point about the art style and Kirkwall being pretty depressing / boring. I think a very stylistic artstyle makes for wonderful environment oppurtunities. Wind Waker was one of my favorite zeldas because the dungeons were so vibrant / colorful but also had the potential to be elegant/beautiful/scary (underwater castle stage whoa man). 

And sort of off topic: I think that some sort of "ancient evil" or some sort of political conspiracy regarding religious histroy that resides inside the fade would also be interesting for a potential conflict. Especially since its going to be a lot of templars vs. mages. Perhaps there's some sort of missing link or information regarding mages and the maker or uggh I don't know. Blahblahblah rambling.  

[GunMoth]

alsoalsolalso maybe we will meet the baby god in DA3. Something about a woman being spotted near the mountain ridge near Orlais?

[LolaLei]

I'd like the art style to be impressive this time round because I love nothing more than to stop a moment and take in the scenery.

I'd love, for example to discover in DA3 an area in the game down by the docks at night in which you can see stars in the sky, the moonlight reflecting off the water and see the flickering lights of houses and taverns in the distance as you listen to the ambient sounds of the sea lapping against stone and the creak of wooden boats on the water, then as you slowly approach the town/city you start to hear celebrations in the distance, gradually getting louder until you're smack bang in the middle of the festivities, where the mood changes to fast paced and excitable as you see people partying in the streets and paper lanterns hanging over head... but thats just me over romanticising things LOL.

[LolaLei]

On a different topic, David Gaider said at PAX that they will be going back to the romance/companion interaction style of DA:O when they come to make DA3. He heavily hinted that we'd be able to return to "camp fire" style conversations during which we'd get to ask our companions questions, get to know them better, talk to them about the missions and give them a hug/kiss whenever we feel like it. BUT he also suggested that we'd only be able to do that "in camp" so during battles and quests we wouldn't be able to just talk to them whenever we felt like it, like we did in DA:O, which sounds like a good compromise to me.

So I think we will probably get auto dialogue during battle/quests in which our companions will make comments about the mission/area and then when we return to camp we can have a full blown conversation with them again, which will be more realistic. They also said that they can do even better than the interactions in DA:O, so I'm hoping they'll draw inspiration from ME3 and have our companions take time off duty to relax, socialise with the other companions and hang out with our character.

[GunMoth]

Oh man I would have loved that too. Even in DA2 with the tavern at night by the docks. But Orlais better be spectacular. Especially after Leliana's upsell of the culture there. How everything is bright / vibrant and its warm so you don't have to wear clunky things. A lot of crazy fashion (facepaint, hairstyles, strappy boots) / chants being sung at all times from the grand--chantry--cathedral thing. But a lot of assassins and espionage. I hope its a colorful / beautiful game.

Assuming, you know, its Orlais. But I think "somewhere more French" is kind of a huge hint.

[LolaLei]

GunMoth wrote...

Oh man I would have loved that too. Even in DA2 with the tavern at night by the docks. But Orlais better be spectacular. Especially after Leliana's upsell of the culture there. How everything is bright / vibrant and its warm so you don't have to wear clunky things. A lot of crazy fashion (facepaint, hairstyles, strappy boots) / chants being sung at all times from the grand--chantry--cathedral thing. But a lot of assassins and espionage. I hope its a colorful / beautiful game.

Assuming, you know, its Orlais. But I think "somewhere more French" is kind of a huge hint.

Did you play the MotA dlc? That was very pretty and a nice change from the dull browns of Kirkwall. I suspect the rich parts of Orlais will be like that but on a much larger, more impressive scale with a different art style. Plus I want an Orlesian Masquerade Ball and/or some sort of street festival (like Mardi Gras but in keeping with the games theme.)

[GunMoth]

LolaLei wrote...

On a different topic, David Gaider said at PAX that they will be going back to the romance/companion interaction style of DA:O when they come to make DA3. He heavily hinted that we'd be able to return to "camp fire" style conversations during which we'd get to ask our companions questions, get to know them better, talk to them about the missions and give them a hug/kiss whenever we feel like it. BUT he also suggested that we'd only be able to do that "in camp" so during battles and quests we wouldn't be able to just talk to them whenever we felt like it, like we did in DA:O, which sounds like a good compromise to me.

So I think we will probably get auto dialogue during battle/quests in which our companions will make comments about the mission/area and then when we return to camp we can have a full blown conversation with them again, which will be more realistic. They also said that they can do even better than the interactions in DA:O, so I'm hoping they'll draw inspiration from ME3 and have our companions take time off duty to relax, socialise with the other companions and hang out with our character.

Considering they removed it from DA2 and I didn't really notice, it is completely fine that they removed that feature. Especially if they expand on the party dialog options that were featured in DA2 and random party banter. 

Hopefully camp is a bit better looking though. I think that was my ONLY issue with DA:O. For some reason the camp layout bugged me? Though I can't articulate why or think of another game with a similar setup. I think the closest things are Dark Souls and Demon's Souls where you have the nexus and the firelink shrine. Which are both neat because they're sort of settled in broken down ancient ruins (firelink) and a dimension that is kind of metaphical (the nexus). But they're large enough for NPCs to sort of hide in their own little nooks. Which was great because you rescued a lot of people with conflicting religious ideologies so -- it made sense. 

Still not sure how to articulate it / fix it without making rediculous demands. Like giving everyone their own personalized little "area?" Or Tent? But thats just silly. D: 

Modifié par GunMoth, 15 avril 2012 - 02:42 .