53 réponses à ce sujet

[termokanden]

Amaranthy wrote...

I have always thought tech powers more of a debuff against shields, barriers and armor than pure damage.

Ah I give up. Nobody reads my walls of text

[Amaranthy]

termokanden wrote...

Amaranthy wrote...

I have always thought tech powers more of a debuff against shields, barriers and armor than pure damage.

Ah I give up. Nobody reads my walls of text

Read it now. I used Energy Drain+Overload combo against Geth on insanity, it was quite useful but cryo blast+incinerate was simply bad. You had to wait for the enemies to freeze up in order to get the tech explosion from incinerate. I didn't try any other combos so I just sticked with Liara' singularity and my Sentinel's double throw.

[capn233]

forsaken gamer wrote...

You can cast  evolved Sabatoge beforehand, which does 100% more tech damage to the target for 10 seconds.  You can then also cast Cryo Blast , which weakens armor X %, then incinerate from EDI and yourself (Engineer), and you can take down an Atlas Mech fairly quickly that way, for example.  It's not a combo, but it's doing a lot of damage, especially if you've evolved incinerate for an additional 40% over 8 seconds and an additional 50% to armor.  

I don't know which class/team does more damage.  We would have to look at the numbers and break it down.  

Yeah Sabotage helps substantially.  The numbers would be nice.  I don't think evolved tech explosions match biotic explosions with the bonuses, but tech vulnerability and tech combos might take down some targets in around the same time, maybe faster.

Biotics have the advantage of Warp/Throw with magic reset on detonation.

[CuseGirl]

darthclide wrote...

I am biotic, and I NEEDED overload/incinerate to last the game... If anything they are more powerful to me... So many enemies with shields.

::nods:: the Marauders and Cerberus agents, all sheilded....then that stupid Barrier machine on the wall? smh, hate that thing...

[LordMollecht]

its supposed to be weaker isn't it? Its supposed to be more about stripping defenses and crowd control than direct damage.

[Mara Shep]

I find personally I can use Tech to greater effect, and I usually have a Biotic on my team, so I am covered there. I love Overload - if I have Garrus he has the chain reaction, and for me I used Neural shock. Along with Liara or Javic and we are unstoppable.

Also, the Turret/Drone mean an additional party member!

[slramsey86]

darthclide wrote...

I am biotic, and I NEEDED overload/incinerate to last the game... If anything they are more powerful to me... So many enemies with shields.

dark channel and warp can set up biotic explosions even with enemies that have shields. Biotics own in this game.

[termokanden]

Reave can set up explosions on protected targets as well.

Stasis can do it on those without armor.

[slramsey86]

Yea setting up biotic explosions is way too easy.

[bennyjammin79]

I just steam rolled through the game as an Infiltrator. Cryo explosions and tech bursts everywhere.

[Disciple888]

Some good points here. Thanks for sharing, capn.

Anyways, I'm not arguing that the Tech skillset is ineffective. Obviously, it works, and works well. My point is, compared to the Biotic skillset (Detonate evolutions, Throw Recharge Combo evolution) and taking into consideration squadmate comboability, Tech characters are still weaker than Biotic characters in ME3, all things considered. I don't think people can refute that by saying "oh! such and such combo is great!" No doubt. It's just that biotic combos are better due to evolution paths.

[Malanek]

Yep, they're not bad but Biotics are overpowered in ME3.

[termokanden]

Disciple888 wrote...

Some good points here. Thanks for sharing, capn.

Anyways, I'm not arguing that the Tech skillset is ineffective. Obviously, it works, and works well. My point is, compared to the Biotic skillset (Detonate evolutions, Throw Recharge Combo evolution) and taking into consideration squadmate comboability, Tech characters are still weaker than Biotic characters in ME3, all things considered. I don't think people can refute that by saying "oh! such and such combo is great!" No doubt. It's just that biotic combos are better due to evolution paths.

I would really like to make/see a comparison of killing speeds for tech/biotics.

But ultimately both are completely overpowered. I think they simply went much too far in buffing powers against protected enemies. At the same time, I love the idea of the combo system.

[Disciple888]

Well, you can set off Biotic detonations every ~1s with Liara's 100% CD Singularity and Throw + Recharge Combo, so I'm pretty sure Biotics clear mobs faster. Tech probably has the advantage against mini-bosses tho, just like in ME2.

[slramsey86]

Disciple888 wrote...

Well, you can set off Biotic detonations every ~1s with Liara's 100% CD Singularity and Throw + Recharge Combo, so I'm pretty sure Biotics clear mobs faster. Tech probably has the advantage against mini-bosses tho, just like in ME2.

[termokanden]

Disciple888 wrote...

Well, you can set off Biotic detonations every ~1s with Liara's 100% CD Singularity and Throw + Recharge Combo, so I'm pretty sure Biotics clear mobs faster. Tech probably has the advantage against mini-bosses tho, just like in ME2.

Yeah you're probably right about Liara's insane cooldowns tipping the scales in favor of biotics. Feels a bit unfair to me though. We need an overpowered tech squadmate

[Ishiken]

Disciple888 wrote...

Well, you can set off Biotic detonations every ~1s with Liara's 100% CD Singularity and Throw + Recharge Combo, so I'm pretty sure Biotics clear mobs faster. Tech probably has the advantage against mini-bosses tho, just like in ME2.

Tech can take down Nemesis, Atlas, Brutes, and Banshees much faster than Biotic Explosions, while Biotic Explosions can take out Phantoms and the smaller mobs faster. But seriously Sabotage + 2 second CD Incinerate spam does insane damage. Since it's +200% damage overall on armor, so you are doing literally 1900 dmg to armor every 2 seconds, which is a lot more than Biotic combos. I personally had an easier run with an Engineer since the smaller mobs was a joke and it's the mini-boss mobs like the Banshees that's trouble especially in the last fight in London, where you are rushed by them.

Only reason why Biotics seem stronger than Eng is due to Liara having a 2 second cooldown with Singularity. If they changed Liara's Singularity to 4 seconds, then it would not seen to be so insane. The other point is that an Eng with Tali can basically have Tech Vulnerability up on a single mob permanently. But since ME3 literally has zero bosses like the Praetorian in ME2, Tech seems weaker compared to Biotics. If ME3 had a more bigger mobs then Tech would seem overpowered compared to Biotics.

And I really don't know how Biotics were that much better than Tech in Insanity in ME2 since every enemy had protection.

Modifié par Ishiken, 16 avril 2012 - 05:38 .

[Disciple888]

Ishiken wrote...

Disciple888 wrote...

Well, you can set off Biotic detonations every ~1s with Liara's 100% CD Singularity and Throw + Recharge Combo, so I'm pretty sure Biotics clear mobs faster. Tech probably has the advantage against mini-bosses tho, just like in ME2.

Tech can take down Nemesis, Atlas, Brutes, and Banshees much faster than Biotic Explosions, while Biotic Explosions can take out Phantoms and the smaller mobs faster. But seriously Sabotage + 2 second CD Incinerate spam does insane damage. Since it's +200% damage overall on armor, so you are doing literally 1900 dmg to armor every 2 seconds, which is a lot more than Biotic combos. I personally had an easier run with an Engineer since the smaller mobs was a joke and it's the mini-boss mobs like the Banshees that's trouble especially in the last fight in London, where you are rushed by them.

Only reason why Biotics seem stronger than Eng is due to Liara having a 2 second cooldown with Singularity. If they changed Liara's Singularity to 4 seconds, then it would not seen to be so insane. The other point is that an Eng with Tali can basically have Tech Vulnerability up on a single mob permanently. But since ME3 literally has zero bosses like the Praetorian in ME2, Tech seems weaker compared to Biotics. If ME3 had a more bigger mobs then Tech would seem overpowered compared to Biotics.

And I really don't know how Biotics were that much better than Tech in Insanity in ME2 since every enemy had protection.

Agree on Tech taking down mini-boss mobs faster.  This was also the case in ME2, where Drone was a boss killer.  But the overwhelming majority of enemy waves you face in the game are generally smaller mobs.  Disagree regarding the Phantom tho.  You can just Stasis it.

Agree on Liara's Singularity spam being one of the main reasons Biotics are stronger than Tech.

Biotics were better than Tech in Insanity in ME2 for several reasons:

Throw/Pull >>>> Cryo Blast
Squadmate Drone has insane CD
Overload only did damage against shields iirc
Reave

[Jestina]

In ME2 the only thing an engineer had to worry about was barriers...and warp ammo can deal with that. Engineer was the easiest class for me to get through ME2's insanity. ME3 is just a joke, with a poorly thought out combat system.

[termokanden]

Jestina wrote...

In ME2 the only thing an engineer had to worry about was barriers...and warp ammo can deal with that. Engineer was the easiest class for me to get through ME2's insanity. ME3 is just a joke, with a poorly thought out combat system.

It's easy, but I don't think it was poorly thought out. I actually love the mechanics (well, apart from the weight system and EMS). They're just too powerful compared to the enemies you face.

[Unfair_Banana]

I thought the same for a while, but completely re-spec'd my all-drone Engineer so I could try the Sabotage+Incinerate combo...And that is freakin' sweet.

In MP, me and my friends got a little bored of using purely Biotics, so we all grabbed a tech class. Quarian Sabotages, then my MHE uses Overload...Geth go down like a cake at fat camp

[Athenau]

When an engineer's throwing around sabotage buffed overloads for 6000 damage per pop, I don't think you can call biotics clearly superior.

[Ishiken]

Disciple888 wrote...

Agree on Tech taking down mini-boss mobs faster.  This was also the case in ME2, where Drone was a boss killer.  But the overwhelming majority of enemy waves you face in the game are generally smaller mobs.  Disagree regarding the Phantom tho.  You can just Stasis it.

Agree on Liara's Singularity spam being one of the main reasons Biotics are stronger than Tech.

Biotics were better than Tech in Insanity in ME2 for several reasons:

Throw/Pull >>>> Cryo Blast
Squadmate Drone has insane CD
Overload only did damage against shields iirc
Reave

Strictly in ME2
1. Pull/Throw is 2 abilities compared to 1 ability of Cryo Blast, so that is hardly a fair comparison.
2. Combat Drone for Squadmates had 30 second CD and combat drone for Shepard had 3 second CD. I don't know how 30 second CD is "insane". I am assuming that "insane" here means ridiculously low.
3. And Warp only did damage against Barriers.
4. Reave is a bonus power that everyone can get including Engineers.

In ME3:
It was Bioware's reasoning that there shouldn't be too many "boss" type mobs since it was too video gamey. Strictly speaking Biotics and Tech in ME3 were equally powerful, however Biotics are meant to take out the little mobs faster while Tech can take down the big mobs faster. The reason Biotics seem powerful is only due to game trying to rush the player with little players. Objectively speaking they are pretty much equal in power. Stasis is a bonus power, so all classes have access to the ability.

Modifié par Ishiken, 16 avril 2012 - 08:17 .

[Disciple888]

Ishiken wrote...

Disciple888 wrote...

Agree on Tech taking down mini-boss mobs faster.  This was also the case in ME2, where Drone was a boss killer.  But the overwhelming majority of enemy waves you face in the game are generally smaller mobs.  Disagree regarding the Phantom tho.  You can just Stasis it.

Agree on Liara's Singularity spam being one of the main reasons Biotics are stronger than Tech.

Biotics were better than Tech in Insanity in ME2 for several reasons:

Throw/Pull >>>> Cryo Blast
Squadmate Drone has insane CD
Overload only did damage against shields iirc
Reave

Strictly in ME2
1. Pull/Throw is 2 abilities compared to 1 ability of Cryo Blast, so that is hardly a fair comparison.
2. Combat Drone for Squadmates had 30 second CD and combat drone for Shepard had 3 second CD. I don't know how 30 second CD is "insane". I am assuming that "insane" here means ridiculously low.
3. And Warp only did damage against Barriers.
4. Reave is a bonus power that everyone can get including Engineers.

In ME3:
It was Bioware's reasoning that there shouldn't be too many "boss" type mobs since it was too video gamey. Strictly speaking Biotics and Tech in ME3 were equally powerful, however Biotics are meant to take out the little mobs faster while Tech can take down the big mobs faster. The reason Biotics seem powerful is only due to game trying to rush the player with little players. Objectively speaking they are pretty much equal in power. Stasis is a bonus power, so all classes have access to the ability.

Throw OR Pull was better than Cryo Blast.  Cryo Blast was a gimped ability (4.5s cd versus 3s cd for similar Biotic CC), there are several posts in ME2 Strategy builds decrying it for anything other than a flavor power.

30s CD for Squadmates is insanely high.  Drone doesn't last that long on Insanity, and it locks out their other powers.  Shep's CD for Drone was great, but once again, Tech < Biotics.

Warp could combo.  Overload couldn't.

We're arguing Biotics > Tech, not classes.  Engineers could definitely get Reave, but Reave is still a Biotic power.