274 réponses à ce sujet

[Menethra]

Tazzmission wrote...

GBJ13 wrote...

Sigh, every survey has shown that people dislike the ending. Reddit, BSN, etc. The Pro-Ending Modification Group dramatically exceeds the Pro-Keep the Ending the same group on FB. In order to believe, the majority of fans "liked" the ending you have to believe:
1. People who liked the ending are incredibly dispassionate and not willing to defend it.
2. The people who post on the internet are not in any way a representative sample of fans in general.
3. People who have not posted are pro or indifferent on the ending.
4. Space Magic.

Again, it's impossible to known conclusively what's the majority opinion without good accurate scientific polling. However, the more logical inference is "most people dislike the ending"

I had professors who worked as political consultants during the 1994 and 2010 who talked about those experts/campaign managers who didn't feel that emerging grass roots movements were representative of the national mood. They looked pretty foolish now. A lot of times the loudest voices are just saying exactly what everybody else wants to say.

no offence but this hole backlash is so out of controll to where if someone says they stand by liking the endings they are verbally insulted

i myself have been insulted as have other people

i dont give a crap if anyone hates  the ending but it dosent give anyone a right to insult me with name calling


and i wont deny i have retaliated against those that have done nothing but provoke a situation with me

It works both ways, you're trying to paint the world in one colour dude.

If someone makes a negative thread or questions bioware you'll find people there defending bioware with great zeal just as you'll find people in pro ending threads doing the same, no one side is perfect. I've seen some people such as dridengx (pro ender) insulting people for being invested in the game.

Is that right? No it's not, is it right for someone to tell you to basically f**k off because of your opinion? No it's not but as i said earlier complaining about people complaining doesn't solve anything.

Modifié par Menethra, 15 avril 2012 - 06:06 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

aberdash wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

So what would you call filing a complaint with the FTC and the BBB, or threatening lawsuits other than "trying to gain media attention"?

RME came out against that.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I'm talking about people with RME banners in their signatures asking for such. I'm done with you. You are in denial, your lieing and your making false statements in order to promote your comment via omission which is hypocritical given your first comment in this thread about lie by omission. You are doing the very same and pretending your not.

That's a nice attempt to bow out gracefully without admitting you're wrong. The actions of the individual also do not reflect the actions of the whole.

Really? Because I saw plenty of people with the Retake banner in their sigs supporting it and saying they were going to do it as well.

[aberdash]

Father_Jerusalem wrote.

Really? Because I saw plenty of people with the Retake banner in their sigs supporting it and saying they were going to do it as well.

And I saw plenty of people saying the guy who did it was an idiot so what is your point?

social.bioware.com/%20http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10065503/7

Modifié par aberdash, 15 avril 2012 - 04:33 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

aberdash wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote.

Really? Because I saw plenty of people with the Retake banner in their sigs supporting it and saying they were going to do it as well.

And I saw plenty of people saying the guy who did it was an idiot so what is your point?

The point is, Retakers were actively seeking media attention, despite your assertion that they were not. 

[aberdash]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The point is, Retakers were actively seeking media attention, despite your assertion that they were not. 

And again you are assuming intent. Neither you or Dragonlordz can present any evidence of RME actively seeking media attention.

[GBJ13]

I think the thread is going a bit off the rails. The problem with the Entertainment Weekly quote in the ad is what I thought this thread was out.
1. Is the statement regarding fan outcry a lie? No. It is factually true. I can't think of a video game with this much discussion of the meaning
2. Is it independently misleading? No. If that was all it said, it wouldn't be a problem.
3. Next to the 75 perfect scores, is it misleading? Yes. The implication is the fan discussion of the ending is related to the perfect scores. For example, a review of the 6th Sense which talked about the ending and the positive reviews would not be misleading. The ending is one of the best parts of the movie. The majority of outcry about the ending has been overwhelmingly negative. (whether it's representative or not). That's why it rubs people the wrong way and it is misleading to customers unfamiliar with the product.

Hopefully, it's not a real advertisement. I think it'd be in poor taste.

[Father_Jerusalem]

aberdash wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The point is, Retakers were actively seeking media attention, despite your assertion that they were not. 

And again you are assuming intent. Neither you or Dragonlordz can present any evidence of RME actively seeking media attention.

Oh good grief. You accuse BioWare of lying and manipulating and being evil, then do the same things yourself, and can't understand how that makes you a hypocrite. I'm not going to waste another second of my life on you.

[aberdash]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Oh good grief. You accuse BioWare of lying and manipulating and being evil, then do the same things yourself, and can't understand how that makes you a hypocrite. I'm not going to waste another second of my life on you.

So by the strawman can I assume you admit you are wrong but don't want to actually say it?

[thunderhawk862002]

GBJ13 wrote...

I think the thread is going a bit off the rails. The problem with the Entertainment Weekly quote in the ad is what I thought this thread was out.
1. Is the statement regarding fan outcry a lie? No. It is factually true. I can't think of a video game with this much discussion of the meaning
2. Is it independently misleading? No. If that was all it said, it wouldn't be a problem.
3. Next to the 75 perfect scores, is it misleading? Yes. The implication is the fan discussion of the ending is related to the perfect scores. For example, a review of the 6th Sense which talked about the ending and the positive reviews would not be misleading. The ending is one of the best parts of the movie. The majority of outcry about the ending has been overwhelmingly negative. (whether it's representative or not). That's why it rubs people the wrong way and it is misleading to customers unfamiliar with the product.

Hopefully, it's not a real advertisement. I think it'd be in poor taste.

^Exactly

[matthewmi]

Love the ad it's true, big fan reaction and perfect scores.

[GBJ13]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

GBJ13 wrote...

Sigh, every survey has shown that people dislike the ending. Reddit, BSN, etc. The Pro-Ending Modification Group dramatically exceeds the Pro-Keep the Ending the same group on FB. In order to believe, the majority of fans "liked" the ending you have to believe:
1. People who liked the ending are incredibly dispassionate and not willing to defend it.
2. The people who post on the internet are not in any way a representative sample of fans in general.
3. People who have not posted are pro or indifferent on the ending.
4. Space Magic.

Again, it's impossible to known conclusively what's the majority opinion without good accurate scientific polling. However, the more logical inference is "most people dislike the ending"

I had professors who worked as political consultants during the 1994 and 2010 who talked about those experts/campaign managers who didn't feel that emerging grass roots movements were representative of the national mood. They looked pretty foolish now. A lot of times the loudest voices are just saying exactly what everybody else wants to say.

I have no doubt (imho) that a huge amount of people disliked the ending, those being 'vocal' in their dislike does not mean all those 'non vocal' people agree on wanting it changed, it does not mean they all want it changed the same way either.

No, you're correct. There's no uniformity in the desires that I've seen.  That's why I just said "pro-ending modification" instead of using "clarification" "alternative ending" or enhancement.

You're also not incorrect that the the nonvocal and vocal communities may have different preferences. However, there's almost no data proving this difference and no logical reason to assume such divergence. There was a thread where people posted their age and how they felt about the ending.   The data seemd to be what you'd expect given the average age of gamer is 34.    There is some concern about self-selecting, but all it indicates is a pretty strong enthisam gap between the pro-ending and pro-ending modification camps.

In other words, at this point in time, it's highly unlikely, but not impossible for the pro-ending to be the majority. Arguing that that position is "clealry" the majority is pretty unfounded and requires a great deal of unlikely assumptions to be true.

That doesn't mean the either opinion is invalid. Numeriousity is not the same as truth.

[RocketManSR2]

*Peeks in topic*
Well, nothing but more pointless bickering, trolling, and flaming. Swell.

[thunderhawk862002]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

*Peeks in topic*
Well, nothing but more pointless bickering, trolling, and flaming. Swell.

Why even post then?

[RocketManSR2]

It was just as meaningful as the rest of the crap ITT.

[HenchxNarf]

"Oh my gah, it's the truth! Must rage and complain until it goes away!" That's all I see here.

It may not say exactly what you want it to, but it is the truth.

Deal with it.

[Dridengx]

Good for EA and Bioware haha so they gave away your cupcakes, use your rage to sell their game, and now completely wrecked you with free DLC. You never had a chance. Best news is the game is selling good regardless of your cries and refunds

Modifié par Dridengx, 15 avril 2012 - 05:23 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

HenchxNarf wrote...

"Oh my gah, it's the truth! Must rage and complain until it goes away!" That's all I see here.

It may not say exactly what you want it to, but it is the truth.

Deal with it.

It used to be *rageragerageHOWDAREBIOWARELIErageragerage*

Now it's *rageragerageHOWDAREBIOWARETELLTHETRUTHrageragerage*

I mean, honestly. There's just no winning here.

[HenchxNarf]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

"Oh my gah, it's the truth! Must rage and complain until it goes away!" That's all I see here.

It may not say exactly what you want it to, but it is the truth.

Deal with it.

It used to be *rageragerageHOWDAREBIOWARELIErageragerage*

Now it's *rageragerageHOWDAREBIOWARETELLTHETRUTHrageragerage*

I mean, honestly. There's just no winning here.

And really. It's one of those situations where even if you win, you lose kind of things.

[thunderhawk862002]

Dridengx wrote...

Good for EA and Bioware haha so they gave away your cupcakes, use your rage to sell their game, and now completely wrecked you with free DLC. You never had a chance. Best news is the game is selling good regardless of your cries and refunds

Yeah it's selling as well as Enter the Matrix.  And what other AAA games were released last month again?  How were sales after the initial first week?  As good as Skyrim right?

[Dude_in_the_Room]

You guys complained and complained and wouldn't let it go and they used it to their benefit.  I honestly don't believe anyone thought this wasn't a selling point for this game.

[Dridengx]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

Good for EA and Bioware haha so they gave away your cupcakes, use your rage to sell their game, and now completely wrecked you with free DLC. You never had a chance. Best news is the game is selling good regardless of your cries and refunds

Yeah it's selling as well as Enter the Matrix.  And what other AAA games were released last month again?  How were sales after the initial first week?  As good as Skyrim right?

oh, I'm sorry, you mad? You know very well the sales numbers are at a franchise high for Mass Effect. Sales first week were also higher than any ME game as well. oo? now we're comparing games to do what exactly? you think that IF skyrim sold more that somehow disproves that ME3 sold a franchise high for Bioware or that ME3 didn't sell well? get a clue lol

Modifié par Dridengx, 15 avril 2012 - 05:41 .

[AxisEvolve]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
It used to be *rageragerageHOWDAREBIOWARELIErageragerage*

Now it's *rageragerageHOWDAREBIOWARETELLTHETRUTHrageragerage*

I mean, honestly. There's just no winning here.

Two can play that game.

It sounds like they can do no wrong to you to me. Some will praise anything Bioware does. 

[GBJ13]

It's an interesting market strategy. I've already commented earlier in the thread that two statements placed together are misleading. So I don't think ti's a good plan for those people who are already questioning Bioware's brand. I don't think this is going to work. The more they draw attention to the ending, the more criticism tends to be generated. Quite a few publications whose initial reviews were positive on the ending or ignored discussing the ending, now have podcats or other forums were they criticize or debate the ending. They're being sucked into a negative story for them.

Therefore, I think it's a misstep by Bioware. Even if it does produce a short-term benefit, it's only exacerbating the long-term image problems. I recognize they're in a tough position. I would probably advertise the MP in their shoes. There are lot of good things about the MP. (I know there are lots of flaws too). Those who don't like the MP don't appear to have a similarly intense negative response as those who dislike the ending. I think that's a better advertisement campaign for them.

[AtreiyaN7]

Oh, the EW ad and presumably the article again too! I agree with the EW article linked in that other idiotic thread. Also, the ad is not inaccurate - especially since the game did, in fact, provoke a huge response.

[Father_Jerusalem]

AxisEvolve wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
It used to be *rageragerageHOWDAREBIOWARELIErageragerage*

Now it's *rageragerageHOWDAREBIOWARETELLTHETRUTHrageragerage*

I mean, honestly. There's just no winning here.

Two can play that game.

It sounds like they can do no wrong to you to me. Some will praise anything Bioware does. 

I've criticised BioWare heavily for issues that are actually issues, such as the reuse of maps in DA2, and the statement that there are enough assets in SP to get all the endings.

Please, though, strawman more.