246 réponses à ce sujet

[GigaTheToast]

Yeh because none of the other games had these kinds of problems. Need I remind you ME2's plot was almost completely pointless? That's a slightly bigger problem the just one plot-driving maguffin, but that doesn't make the game bad.

If it weren't for the ending, ME3 would be me favorite of the series, you can't tell me my opinion is wrong.

[AlanC9]

Noelemahc wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Noelemahc wrote...
The Crucible is established in advance, but with an unknown function<...>

True. But OTOH, Bio was pretty good about letting us know that something .... weird ... was going to happen when you actually activated the Crucible.

Yes, but not in a million years would you expect a Deus Ex Machina, or, as some prefer, Diabolus Ex Machina.

True. I expected to be surprised; I had no idea what the nature of the surprise would be.

I don't really follow you on the Cuttlefish Avatar. The SC didn't come across to me as being human in the first place --- it was obviously a psychic projection, with the kid being an available image from Shep's mind.

[CARL_DF90]

If Bioware really wanted to take some risks then they should have thrown in an ending where a few wrong decisions would have given us an "ALL IS LOST!" ending where we can lose and the cycle continues(like in ME2 where you can get everyone killed), but with Liara's little black boxes nestled safely on a bunch of other worlds. THAT would have been artistic!

Modifié par CARL_DF90, 16 avril 2012 - 06:37 .

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

CARL_DF90 wrote...

If Bioware really wanted to take some risks then they should have thrown in an ending where a few wrong decisions would have given us an "ALL IS LOST!" ending where we can lose and the cycle continues(like in ME2 where you can get everyone killed), but with Liara's little black boxes nestled safely on a bunch of other worlds. THAT would have been artistic!

I agree completely. That would have been a great scenario but apparently our decisions didn't hold enough weight in the story. Go figure.

[Noelemahc]

I don't really follow you on the Cuttlefish Avatar. The SC didn't come across to me as being human in the first place --- it was obviously a psychic projection, with the kid being an available image from Shep's mind.

I'm saying that a different IMAGE for the projection would've caused less ire from the players. The Virmire Casualty or a cuttlefish would have attracted far less derision, IMHO, even if the nonsense it says would stay the same (just with a different VA). It would also give the VS VAs more to do from an artistic point of view =)

If Bioware really wanted to take some risks then they should have thrown in an ending where a few wrong decisions would have given us an "ALL IS LOST!" ending where we can lose and the cycle continues(like in ME2 where you can get everyone killed), but with Liara's little black boxes nestled safely on a bunch of other worlds. THAT would have been artistic!

Most fanmade endings I've read include that in some form or another. Hilariously, more and more seem to include the yahg in the role of the Leading Race Of The Cycle. Hackett's words were not ignored, it seems =)

[crawfs]

to be fair with the "auto dialogue complaint" I just recently replayed ME1 as a renegade and noticed that most of the dialogue choices were actually pretty much the same and there were only a few dialogue options that were actually different. We were only really provided the "illusion" of moving the conversations forward. In reality Shepard says pretty much the same thing no matter what.

[Noelemahc]

crawfs wrote...

to be fair with the "auto dialogue complaint" I just recently replayed ME1 as a renegade and noticed that most of the dialogue choices were actually pretty much the same and there were only a few dialogue options that were actually different. We were only really provided the "illusion" of moving the conversations forward. In reality Shepard says pretty much the same thing no matter what.

Yes, but with that illusion of choice also comes a fun psychological effect. Depending on what you picked in the dialogue wheel, the interpretation of what Shepard says, EVEN WHEN IT'S THE SAME THING, is radically different. Compare the post-Eden-Prime-beacon dialogue for the various permutations. Other than the "shore leave" line, everything you may or may not pick will give the exact same line from Shepard, but the inferred meaning will be different. Kinda like KotOR2 could have several lines with the same dialogue option, but prefaced with [Persuade], [Lie], etc. Important for gameplay? No. Important for immersion? Heck yes.

[SalsaDMA]

GigaTheToast wrote...

Yeh because none of the other games had these kinds of problems. Need I remind you ME2's plot was almost completely pointless? That's a slightly bigger problem the just one plot-driving maguffin, but that doesn't make the game bad.

If it weren't for the ending, ME3 would be me favorite of the series, you can't tell me my opinion is wrong.

ME2 was pointless because ME3 failed to utilize ME2.

[Gexora]

This game is by no means perfect. It had ****load of issues. But so did all other ME. But because it was so epic, felt so involved and the plot was great, we forgave ME for stupidity of Virmire and ME2 for being railroaded into the crew abduction
ME3 has no such saving grace

[Scam_poo]

Ok, so you hate the writing and story and whatnot. But don't tell me Tuchanka, Thessia, Rannoch or Palaven weren't completely damn epic. Don't tell me this. Because you know you loved them.

[SumoMau]

In my opinion, the final was the best thing in the game. Easy to understand, exactly what i thinked when i played ME2, (as i wrote several times on italian forums)... I knew the end 1 year ago ... it was a logical end... exactly like Matrix. So no surprise for me.

But the rest of the game was without soul.

for me 7,5 of 10 (not more)

[Noelemahc]

Scam_poo wrote...

Ok, so you hate the writing and story and whatnot. But don't tell me Tuchanka, Thessia, Rannoch or Palaven weren't completely damn epic. Don't tell me this. Because you know you loved them.

Yes, yes we did. As the thread title says, "apart from the ending". I enjoyed most of the time spent with the game, it's just that the ending is so soul-crushingly depressing NO MATTER WHAT YOU DID OR DID NOT DO that it sort of tarnishes the whole thing. Ow.

[ImperatorMortis]

Aside from London, the ending, the small citadel, and the journal system I actually loved the rest of the game. Those are the only parts that I disliked/was annoyed by.

[anrock]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Aside from London, the ending, the small citadel, and the journal system I actually loved the rest of the game. Those are the only parts that I disliked/was annoyed by.

Just like me.

[Cainne Chapel]

I actually liked the citadel, big enough to get bothersome, yet not quite big enough be so goddamn boring like ME1.

Also we found out salarians used to eat flies... that alone is worth the price of admission to me... take those damn grays down a few pegs!

[RyuGuitarFreak]

It's not perfect, it was buggy beyond acceptable, it's not polished enough, it's flawed, it's not up to expectations, it's not up to what could have been. But yeah, it was great.

[crazyrabbits]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Any game as large as ME3 is bound to have some problems; basically anything can be picked apart like this. I'm certainly not denying that there are some issues with the game; trivialization of some supposedly major choices (ie Collector Base and rachni), sidelining or altering of characters (although most of my favourites got treated pretty well, so didn't bother me too much), and that horrible journal system. However, the parts that were done well were so good that I was willing to forgive all that. It's not like you couldn't really make similar criticisms towards the earlier games anyway.

Not only is that rue Cthulhu... ME2 and ME1 were picked apart on a regular basis back in the day.  Heck ME1's opening arc revolves around a few plot holes as well and tremendous leaps of logic.

But it worked for ME1, still loved it despite obvious flaws in the story telling, same with 2 and now same with 3.

Really if you want they ALL can be picked apart quite adeptly by one with enough time.  Even ME1's "perfect" storyline can fall when the microscope is turned on.

ME1 worked because (a) its goal was to establish the characters and the universe, and ( it didn't require the same suspension of disbelief / awareness of prior events that the sequels rely on. I've seen more than one person refer to ME1 as a game that was deliberately designed to look and feel like a hokey space opera, complete with grainy film stock effects and a wild plot.

Judging from what I've seen in the myriad videos and playthroughs, there's a huge difference between the atmosphere that's created from an ME1->ME2 import and the atmosphere and story that's created from ME2->ME3. Playing an ME2 import feels much different than playing without one - you're constantly getting updates and e-mails from old friends (without being in-your-face), cutscenes take into account the decisions you made in the previous game, there's extra conversation options based on whether or not you played the tie-in game and a generally different feeling, whereas none of that is present if you import.

In ME3, whether you import or not doesn't really matter - you still get the same result regardless of what choices you made in the prior games, there's a general feeling of railroading that never really goes away, the missions generally have the sense of a "greatest hits" reel, and the great narrative arcs (Rannoch, Tuchanka) were largely overshadowed by the fact that, even on a second or third playthrough, nothing you do really seems to matter to the overarching story or endgame. I think that's a shame.

Modifié par crazyrabbits, 16 avril 2012 - 09:26 .

[Chuvvy]

OP might want to add lack of actual sidequests.

[AlanC9]

Noelemahc wrote...

I don't really follow you on the Cuttlefish Avatar. The SC didn't come across to me as being human in the first place --- it was obviously a psychic projection, with the kid being an available image from Shep's mind.

I'm saying that a different IMAGE for the projection would've caused less ire from the players. The Virmire Casualty or a cuttlefish would have attracted far less derision, IMHO, even if the nonsense it says would stay the same (just with a different VA). It would also give the VS VAs more to do from an artistic point of view =)

Hmmm... I'll just take your word for it. Since I don't share the reaction myself, I won't pretend to understand it.

[chevyguy87]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

It's not perfect, it was buggy beyond acceptable, it's not polished enough, it's flawed, it's not up to expectations, it's not up to what could have been. But yeah, it was great.

You want bugs? Three words...... Fallout New Vegas play that and then come back and see if you still feel this way.

[XTR3M3]

I will agree with the OP title....ME3 was great if you take off the ending which I do now by alt+tab-ing right after marauder shields. Sure there were flaws like the journal, but I really enjoyed playing it..more so than even ME1 or ME2....with the HUGE exception of the end.

[Sdrol117]

Also, the romances besides Liara were terrible, and te game was just fetch quests. 

[Grey21]

I think people want to focus on the ending, it is something that still can be fixed. There is no point at criticizing the rest, at least not yet. Right now people want to point out what they hated about the ending so Bioware will hopefully take this as feedback for their DLC.

But they will never re-do the entire game. Perhaps once the DLC is out, people will find the time to criticize the rest of the game. And it certainly deserves it. I hate the whole formula behind it. The citadel is basically a big game lobby that transports you to liniear combat zones. As an destraction you also get a combined flying minigame and a delivery service minigame.

But the game primarily is about shooting in liniear areas. Narrative mode is unplayable because it shows how empty the game really is. think back to KOTOR, it would still be a good game in a narrative mode (in fact I originally played it as such). This game isn't much of a RPG and that is my biggest issue.

And there are plenty of other choices, most of which are related to the big issue. Like there being no consequences to out choices, it being too liniear, it being too shallow, etc. But after the terrible ending I don't see a lot of reason to point these things out. Bioware will make whatever they want to make, as terrible as it may be, DA2 and ME3 are proof of this. I just hope that they take the peace-offer of the fanbase, which is the indoctrination theory, and fix the ending. If I like it enough than we'll see that the future holds. If they don't fix it than I don't reallt have a reason to critize and help future game development as I won't dare to touch another Bioware game.

[crazyrabbits]

chevyguy87 wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

It's not perfect, it was buggy beyond acceptable, it's not polished enough, it's flawed, it's not up to expectations, it's not up to what could have been. But yeah, it was great.

You want bugs? Three words...... Fallout New Vegas play that and then come back and see if you still feel this way.

The thing with FNV was that, for every game-breaking bug there was, there were five more unintentional bugs that were hilarious and usually added more to the game in terms of enjoyment. I've seen a ton of videos with people praising the Doc Mitchell spinning head prologue glitch, the Gamestop pre-order pistol red exclamation glitch, Boone's bugged weapon stats and critical hit ratio, etc.

Whereas ME3 starts with a glitch (the face import bug) that ruins the immersion, and doesn't do much to acquit itself for the rest of the game. Turn the subtitles on? Typos everywhere. Disappearing enemies and some bugs that can stall progression (enemies appearing on a specific batlte scene on Mars can stop you from opening a gate to progress for several minutes). Bizarre running and walking animations. Some bugs that weren't really fixed from the demo (Anderson's stalled jumping over the barrier during the finale of the prologue, teleporting characters on Sur'Kesh, etc.)

[Mirajin]

GodWood wrote...

... with their space waifu.

I've always wondered....what the hell is a waifu!?