514 réponses à ce sujet

[kbct]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

KBCT you should know, at least for most people.

They'll adjust and spin the numbers to support their facts... we all do it. Heck I'm sure you're guilty of it too.

Sad part is we use the numbers only to aid in our arguments vs each other....we should all stop doing that I think, it serves us no purpose in the long run.

But on my side i'd go with NPD over VGC every time. But then even NPD can be off so *shrug*

I present my information not to counter the other people. I present it so other readers can decide for themselves. If I see "spin" I like to expose it.

NPD is the preferred source for sales estimates. In fact, that is why Microsoft used NPD to say Xbox sold 934K copies in March even though the VGC data was available earlier and showed a higher number.

Maybe that is also why VGC revised down their estimates by 20% in North America after NPD showed lower sales.

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

KBCT you should know, at least for most people.

They'll adjust and spin the numbers to support their facts... we all do it. Heck I'm sure you're guilty of it too.

Sad part is we use the numbers only to aid in our arguments vs each other....we should all stop doing that I think, it serves us no purpose in the long run.

But on my side i'd go with NPD over VGC every time. But then even NPD can be off so *shrug*

I present my information not to counter the other people. I present it so other readers can decide for themselves. If I see "spin" I like to expose it.

NPD is the preferred source for sales estimates. In fact, that is why Microsoft used NPD to say Xbox sold 934K copies in March even though the VGC data was available earlier and showed a higher number.

Maybe that is also why VGC revised down their estimates by 20% in North America after NPD showed lower sales.

Then why in the last thread were you pushing some unknown quote from an unknown person who 'claimed' was part of the industry as form of evidence to back up your statements even though aforementioned person provided no proof was such.

[kbct]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Then why in the last thread were you pushing some unknown quote from an unknown person who 'claimed' was part of the industry as form of evidence to back up your statements even though aforementioned person provided no proof was such.

There is all sorts of evidence available. If you want to consider that MSFT uses NPD instead of VGC for their information, you can use that as evidence instead.

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Then why in the last thread were you pushing some unknown quote from an unknown person who 'claimed' was part of the industry as form of evidence to back up your statements even though aforementioned person provided no proof was such.

There is all sorts of evidence available. If you want to consider that MSFT uses NPD instead of VGC for their information, you can use that as evidence instead.

To quote you.

It has to with methodology

You used unknown source to back up your statements due to personal bias in a situation. The word of a random person who makes a claim which you used as proof. No different to for example me saying Bob said x, y or z so thats evidence to a, b or c being true even if Bob had no inside knowledge of the situation or provided no proof had such. You will use anything regardless of validity in order to argue your position aka your methodology. Just like most people.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2012 - 07:09 .

[kbct]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You used unknown source to back up your statements due to personal bias in a situation. The word of a random person who makes a claim which you used as proof. No different to for example me saying Bob said x, y or z so thats evidence to a, b or c being true even if Bob had no inside knowledge of the situation or prodived no proof had such.

You can reread my post:

http://social.biowar...6310/9#11421184

and the article:

http://www.gamasutra...php?story=18919

And then consider VGC revised down their estimates by 20% in North America to better match the NPD estimates.

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You used unknown source to back up your statements due to personal bias in a situation. The word of a random person who makes a claim which you used as proof. No different to for example me saying Bob said x, y or z so thats evidence to a, b or c being true even if Bob had no inside knowledge of the situation or provided no proof had such. You will use anything regardless of validity in order to argue your position aka your methodology. Just like most people.

You can reread my post:

http://social.biowar...6310/9#11421184

and the article:

http://www.gamasutra...php?story=18919

And then consider VGC revised down their estimates by 20% in North America to better match the NPD estimates.

Nice try, for someone who claims does not use spin you just attempted it by way of omission.

Here's what my comment referred to and I bolded the element of interest.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Then why in the last thread were you pushing some unknown quote from an unknown person who 'claimed' was part of the industry as form of evidence to back up your statements even though aforementioned person provided no proof was such.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2012 - 07:14 .

[kbct]

[quote]Dragoonlordz wrote...

Then why in the last thread were you pushing some unknown quote from an unknown person who 'claimed' was part of the industry as form of evidence to back up your statements even though aforementioned person provided no proof was such.[/quote]
[/quote]

This is the quote from the comment section of that article:

"I work at a Videogame publisher and we definitely trust NPD more. Most people think NPD tends to under-report by at least 10% because their multiplier for Wal-Mart has a tendency to be off at the SKU level. VGChartz, on the other hand, is often referred to at the "Dirty Data" and people joke that the "data doesn't care where it came from."

What do you know? Microsoft trusts NPD more too. I haven't seen NPD revise up their data. I've only seen VGQ revise down their data - by 20%!!! Oops.

[Emzamination]

[quote]kbct wrote...

[quote]Dragoonlordz wrote...

Then why in the last thread were you pushing some unknown quote from an unknown person who 'claimed' was part of the industry as form of evidence to back up your statements even though aforementioned person provided no proof was such.[/quote]
[/quote]

This is the quote from the comment section of that article:

Anonymous

"I work at a Videogame publisher and we definitely trust NPD more. Most people think NPD tends to under-report by at least 10% because their multiplier for Wal-Mart has a tendency to be off at the SKU level. VGChartz, on the other hand, is often referred to at the "Dirty Data" and people joke that the "data doesn't care where it came from."

What do you know? Microsoft trusts NPD more too. I haven't seen NPD revise up their data. I've only seen VGQ revise down their data - by 20%!!! Oops.[/quote]

Yep, that guys word is pure gold.

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Then why in the last thread were you pushing some unknown quote from an unknown person who 'claimed' was part of the industry as form of evidence to back up your statements even though aforementioned person provided no proof was such.

This is the quote from the comment section of that article:

"I work at a Videogame publisher and we definitely trust NPD more. Most people think NPD tends to under-report by at least 10% because their multiplier for Wal-Mart has a tendency to be off at the SKU level. VGChartz, on the other hand, is often referred to at the "Dirty Data" and people joke that the "data doesn't care where it came from."

What do you know? Microsoft trusts NPD more too. I haven't seen NPD revise up their data. I've only seen VGQ revise down their data - by 20%!!! Oops.

They did not revise down their data at the time you were ranting on about that anon quote. A person who made claims about validity of VGC and same of NPD. You took his "works in the industry" as proof without the person providing such and used his quote in your arguements (some of which only relied on it alone), to make your points and further your stance.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2012 - 07:27 .

[kbct]

Emzamination wrote...

Yep, that guys word is pure gold.

Did you even read the article? Plenty of evidence inside.

Modifié par kbct, 15 avril 2012 - 07:28 .

[kbct]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

They did not revise down their data at the time you were ranting on about that anon quote. A person who made claims about validity of VGC and same of NPD. You took his "works in the industry" as proof without the person providing such and used his quote in your arguements (some of which only relied on it alone), to make your points and further your stance.

The article provides plenty of evidence. VGC has been known to revise their data by 100% or more. The article shows that it is based on VGC's methodology.

The comment confirmed what the article was saying - in a funny way. However, the article was evidence, not the comment.

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

They did not revise down their data at the time you were ranting on about that anon quote. A person who made claims about validity of VGC and same of NPD. You took his "works in the industry" as proof without the person providing such and used his quote in your arguements (some of which only relied on it alone), to make your points and further your stance.

The article provides plenty of evidence. VGC has been known to revise their data by 100% or more. The article shows that it is based on VGC's methodology.

The comment confirmed what the article was saying - in a funny way. However, the article was evidence, not the comment.

Which goes back to my question why in the last thread did you keep throwing his statement up as evidence so often even at times only his statement in order to push your stance and agenda? Like I also said it says a lot about your own methodology. Almost everyone here uses whatever evidence they can find to back up their positions based on personal bias in any given situation. My point being your no different so you shouldn't be saying you do not use spin and such in your arguments as you certainly do like me and everyone else here including EA. This leads back to the topic at hand which is spinning data to suit ones own agenda. EA did it just like everyone else does it, the difference is EA is out to make money as a business it is beneficial.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2012 - 07:40 .

[Emzamination]

kbct wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Yep, that guys word is pure gold.

Did you even read the article? Plenty of evidence inside.

When the author listed a wikipedia page (Which can be Altered by Anyone) as his/her source their opinion on such matters diminished into invalidity.

[kbct]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Which goes back to my question why in the last thread did you keep throwing his statement up as evidence so often even at times only his statement in order to push your stance and agenda? Like I also said it says a lot about your own methodology. Almost everyone here uses whatever evidence they can find to back up their positions based on personal bias in any given situation. My point being your no different so you shouldn't be saying you do not use spin and such in your arguments as you certainly do like me and everyone else here including EA.

Here you go. This is my post in that thread.

kbct wrote...

Have you seen this article?

http://www.gamasutra...php?story=18919

It says in the article that VGChartz sales data can retroactively change by 100% or more. Bits of sales data comes from retailers and then they estimate the total sales. The methodology to estmate the sales can change dramatically which in turn can dramatically change the sales estimates.

In addition, VGChartz says there is zero actual data for the entire European market. That means it's pure extrapolation. What does that mean for the rest of the world? At least the North America has the NPD Group which uses actual sales data. VGChartz have dramatically changed their sales estimates when it conflicts with NPD Group data.

Here is one of the comments below the article:

"I work at a Videogame publisher and we definitely trust NPD more. Most people think NPD tends to under-report by at least 10% because their multiplier for Wal-Mart has a tendency to be off at the SKU level. VGChartz, on the other hand, is often referred to at the "Dirty Data" and people joke that the "data doesn't care where it came from."

I would like to see confirming evidence from other sources. NPD data would be great, however I want to see actual sales, not shipped units to retailers.

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Which goes back to my question why in the last thread did you keep throwing his statement up as evidence so often even at times only his statement in order to push your stance and agenda? Like I also said it says a lot about your own methodology. Almost everyone here uses whatever evidence they can find to back up their positions based on personal bias in any given situation. My point being your no different so you shouldn't be saying you do not use spin and such in your arguments as you certainly do like me and everyone else here including EA. This leads back to the topic at hand which is spinning data to suit ones own agenda. EA did it just like everyone else does it, the difference is EA is out to make money as a business it is beneficial.

Here you go. This is my post in that thread.

kbct wrote...

Have you seen this article?

http://www.gamasutra...php?story=18919

It says in the article that VGChartz sales data can retroactively change by 100% or more. Bits of sales data comes from retailers and then they estimate the total sales. The methodology to estmate the sales can change dramatically which in turn can dramatically change the sales estimates.

In addition, VGChartz says there is zero actual data for the entire European market. That means it's pure extrapolation. What does that mean for the rest of the world? At least the North America has the NPD Group which uses actual sales data. VGChartz have dramatically changed their sales estimates when it conflicts with NPD Group data.

Here is one of the comments below the article:

"I work at a Videogame publisher and we definitely trust NPD more. Most people think NPD tends to under-report by at least 10% because their multiplier for Wal-Mart has a tendency to be off at the SKU level. VGChartz, on the other hand, is often referred to at the "Dirty Data" and people joke that the "data doesn't care where it came from."

I would like to see confirming evidence from other sources. NPD data would be great, however I want to see actual sales, not shipped units to retailers.

That is one of many in that thread. Some of which you only relied on that persons quote alone to make your points.

You know this, I know this so why are you denying it. Could it be because you wish to spin it around to your advantage? But yet you claim you do not use such... Hmm.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2012 - 07:42 .

[kbct]

Emzamination wrote...

When the author listed a wikipedia page (Which can be Altered by Anyone) as his/her source their opinion on such matters diminished into invalidity.

Did you read the article? It quotes Brett Walton, VGC's founder.

[kbct]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

That is one of many in that thread. Some of which you only relied on that persons quote alone to make your points.

You know this, I know this so why are you denying it. Could it be because you wish to spin it around to your advantage? But yet you claim you do not use such... Hmm.

Here is another post:

kbct wrote...

pikey1969 wrote...

Actually I m 99 percent sure, NPD still only measures NA. They're not some hackjob operation like VGChartz where they throw around 'guesstimates'. They use proper sources and far better techniques actually credited by industry analysts, and part of that is why NPD focuses on one region that they actually know about and have proper connections for.

Read what someone in the industry said:

"I work at a Videogame publisher and we definitely trust NPD more. Most people think NPD tends to under-report by at least 10% because their multiplier for Wal-Mart has a tendency to be off at the SKU level. VGChartz, on the other hand, is often referred to at the "Dirty Data" and people joke that the "data doesn't care where it came from."

The comment made the same points as pikey1969. Someone else evidently agreed with him. Also, I already posted the link to the article earlier.

Modifié par kbct, 15 avril 2012 - 07:52 .

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

That is one of many in that thread. Some of which you only relied on that persons quote alone to make your points.

You know this, I know this so why are you denying it. Could it be because you wish to spin it around to your advantage? But yet you claim you do not use such... Hmm.

Tell me what post you are talking about then.

As you wish. Just remember you asked for it.

kbct wrote...

pikey1969 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

kbct wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

nvm, its useless trying to explain anything to a brick wall.

Yeah, here was your link before you ninja-editted it.

http://www.vgchartz....e=Mass Effect 3

Now what does it say about North America, professor?

NPD cares about global sales, not just NA.

Actually I m 99 percent sure, NPD still only measures NA. They're not some hackjob operation like VGChartz where they throw around 'guesstimates'. They use proper sources and far better techniques actually credited by industry analysts, and part of that is why NPD focuses on one region that they actually know about and have proper connections for.

Read what someone in the industry said:

"I work at a Videogame publisher and we definitely trust NPD more. Most people think NPD tends to under-report by at least 10% because their multiplier for Wal-Mart has a tendency to be off at the SKU level. VGChartz, on the other hand, is often referred to at the "Dirty Data" and people joke that the "data doesn't care where it came from."

A complete full quote including all you replied to. Proved my point.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2012 - 07:51 .

[Emzamination]

kbct wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

When the author listed a wikipedia page (Which can be Altered by Anyone) as his/her source their opinion on such matters diminished into invalidity.

Did you read the article? It quotes Brett Walton, VGC's founder.

Without a source to the original statement like any professional journalist would provide, anyone could've said that and need I remind you of the wikipedia page being listed as a source. This Author's word is not to be trusted.

[kbct]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

A complete full quote including all you replied to. Proved my point.

See post above.

Modifié par kbct, 15 avril 2012 - 07:54 .

[kbct]

Emzamination wrote...

kbct wrote...

Did you read the article? It quotes Brett Walton, VGC's founder.

Without a source to the original statement like any professional journalist would provide, anyone could've said that and need I remind you of the wikipedia page being listed as a source. This Author's word is not to be trusted.

So, the article is bad? Not the VGC data? Whatever.

Modifié par kbct, 15 avril 2012 - 07:57 .

[Emzamination]

kbct wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

kbct wrote...

Did you read the article? It quotes Brett Walton, VGC's founder.

Without a source to the original statement like any professional journalist would provide, anyone could've said that and need I remind you of the wikipedia page being listed as a source. This Author's word is not to be trusted.

So, the article is bad? Not the VGC data? Whatever.

The Two go hand and hand hence the need for the Article so both are bad.

[Dridengx]

""I work at a Videogame publisher" yeah, that sounds like a real winner I would believe in. he can't even form his sentence properly "I work for a video game publisher" 'at a" is more used for a video rental store or something. "I work at a Blockbuster"<-- sounds more like him lol. good job Kbct, your self ownage always gives me laughs each day

Modifié par Dridengx, 15 avril 2012 - 08:02 .

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

A complete full quote including all you replied to. Proved my point.

See post above.

As said proved my point, you used an unknown source quoted from some random anon on the internet as evidence to rebuke another person and further your stance and personal bias in that situation. A method you are willing to use and een here shown to use yet one you claim do not use.

[Dridengx]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

A complete full quote including all you replied to. Proved my point.

See post above.

As said proved my point, you used an unknown source quoted from some random anon on the internet as evidence to rebuke another person and further your stance and personal bias in that situation. A method you are willing to use and een here shown to use yet one you claim do not use.

he's extremely dense and wouldn't admit to his own name if you threw his birth certificate in his face. stop trying, he's already been exposed lol