514 réponses à ce sujet

[Vasarkian]

The advertising is somehow linked to the New World Economy?

So... the Illuminati are responsible?!

[Wulfram]

It's not like they didn't have plenty of actually positive reviews they could quote, so I'm not sure why they chose to take that one out of context.

[Cainne Chapel]

L00p wrote...

abaris wrote...

L00p wrote...

The best salesman are the one that actually talk truthfully, because people come back to that guy again and again.

While those slick MFs that try their best to fu.ck customers over, are left to fight for the scraps of new customers that still don't know about ther shady practices, until they have fu.cked him over so many times, leaving him no other option than to - you guessed it - seeing "our" salesman.

There has been a time when this was the case.

But now we're living in the corporate world and marketing has become just another way of ripping you a new one. And they're certainly not fighting over scraps. They're fighting over the proceeds of customer stupidity.

The best saleman is still the one being truthful.
What salesmen we *do* have today, is another matter, and I agree with your sentiments.

And here we are at the core of the issue: if people don't want to express their consumer rights just because the product is a game, thats a dangerous spiral towards a worse future for the little man in a corporate world.

Thank Cthulhu we have began to take back the industry from the criminals, indie devs starting making money for real now, through Steam and other channels, and with the funding of Wasteland 2, I believe we are seeing the start of something great, with the turning upside-down of the whole industry.

People always get the leaders they deserve, not calling a company out on bullsh!t "just because their product is a game" is certainly one way of making the little man worse off.

Honestly... as i've been a gamer for the last 25 years... i still have a hard time seeing the big companies as criminals.  Do I always agree with their practicies? Heck no, thats why I dont frequent some of them, I speak with my wallet.
I also dont like Wal-mart corporation, so I dont shop there... doesn't slow them down.. Also not a fan of Microsofts practices... but they're still kicking.

Bottom line is no matter how much you DISLIKE a company, if they have the right product at the right price... people will still frequent them and wont care in the long run.  Its sad but thats how consumers are.  Indie devs have always had a way to make money, the issue is though, as wide spread as gaming is, publshing and producing were cost prohibitive.

Its a lot like the underground music business. New guys ALWAYS have a hard time getting their stuff out there, they can and do and go on to do a lot, but theres a lot on the producing end that needs to be done thats not always easy to do for a small dev.

Thus thank god for kickstarters and internet.  Funny you mention steam though... I still know people who will NEVER trust valve or steam.

To each their own I guess *shrug*

[abaris]

Cainne Chapel wrote...


Honestly... as i've been a gamer for the last 25 years... i still have a hard time seeing the big companies as criminals.  Do I always agree with their practicies? Heck no, thats why I dont frequent some of them, I speak with my wallet.
I also dont like Wal-mart corporation, so I dont shop there... doesn't slow them down.. Also not a fan of Microsofts practices... but they're still kicking.

It's not about being criminal. But it makes all the difference in the world if a certain company is led by an individual or individuals wanting to make a name for themselves and selling a vision or if it's led by a board that's responsible to a number of nameless shareholders.

Number one will always be more friendly and honest towards their customers.

[MICHELLE7]

Wulfram wrote...

It's not like they didn't have plenty of actually positive reviews they could quote, so I'm not sure why they chose to take that one out of context.

kinda makes you wonder what's the wisdom behind it (if there is any)...you'd think they'd know it'd tick some people off and stir up more controversy. Perhaps that's the intent...to keep people talking about the game...whether bad or good...who knows what their PR department is thinking at this point...smooth it over with an ending dlc...then stir it all back up with this.

[Emzamination]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

I do however think that if their advertising DOES upset or anger you...EVEN in the slightest... its probably best at this point to cut ties and move on.

DOnt get yourself worked up, this is gaming people! A luxury entertainment venue! Meant for those who seek entertainment and have fun! The moment were it becomes stressful or makes you angry... its time to cut that portion out and move on to something that doesn't.

Nothing good comes from getting worked up over something that has such a minimal impact in your life.

They can't cut ties and move on because subconciously they don't want to.The retakers are just way ward children who're a little worked up right now and need some time to cool down.They will loyally buy every future title and dlc if only to be able to complain in the game owner forum but aside from all that bioware still loves them.

[FutureBoy81]

and the spin doctors keep spinning ..

[XTR3M3]

I am willing to be most of the people who gave out those perfect scores either did so after only playing either the demo or a small part of the game. I bet if they were truthful and were asked "did you play it all the way through including the ending", their answers would start out with "well, no but....."

[Emzamination]

XTR3M3 wrote...

I am willing to be most of the people who gave out those perfect scores either did so after only playing either the demo or a small part of the game. I bet if they were truthful and were asked "did you play it all the way through including the ending", their answers would start out with "well, no but....."

That is a speculation and assupmption with no basis to justify your own anger. What is our community coming to these days?

[garf]

What community?

[lillitheris]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

I do however think that if their advertising DOES upset or anger you...EVEN in the slightest... its probably best at this point to cut ties and move on.

DOnt get yourself worked up, this is gaming people! A luxury entertainment venue! Meant for those who seek entertainment and have fun! The moment were it becomes stressful or makes you angry... its time to cut that portion out and move on to something that doesn't.

Nothing good comes from getting worked up over something that has such a minimal impact in your life.

Wrong. If nobody is held to a standard, then standards will be gone. I prefer to play something other than Call of Warfare 785 in the future.

You go ahead and do something else, we'll take care of it for you. No need to thank us.

[Dragoonlordz]

A smart business man can turn almost anything around to their advantage, it was clever, a smart move and whoever came up with it would have certainly earned their pay check this month. EA's agenda is to make money despite some who are unhappy. Members here many of them who are against it have their own agenda of damaging sales despite it selling well overall. EA are not going to switch their agenda with yours.

Like I said before, no smart business man goes and tells potential new customers that a group hated their products (none who wish to stay in business). They either do not bring it up or they put a positive spin on it like here but remaining within the framework of being honest. The image and description within it are accurate even if meaning spinning around the situation to positive instead of negative.

As also stated before I am beginning to question the emotional maturity of those who are still venting and outraged after a month about the last 10 minutes of a video game even if the previous two were great and most of the third was also good, it is still just a video game.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 avril 2012 - 05:37 .

[Emzamination]

garf wrote...

What community?

The bioware fanbase the retakers are trying to tear apart with their rebellion . The Loyalist must hold the line!

[Cainne Chapel]

lillitheris wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

I do however think that if their advertising DOES upset or anger you...EVEN in the slightest... its probably best at this point to cut ties and move on.

DOnt get yourself worked up, this is gaming people! A luxury entertainment venue! Meant for those who seek entertainment and have fun! The moment were it becomes stressful or makes you angry... its time to cut that portion out and move on to something that doesn't.

Nothing good comes from getting worked up over something that has such a minimal impact in your life.

Wrong. If nobody is held to a standard, then standards will be gone. I prefer to play something other than Call of Warfare 785 in the future.

You go ahead and do something else, we'll take care of it for you. No need to thank us.

Holding people to a standard is fine.  But if they fail your standard.  You move ont o something that does.  If I dont like a certain type of movie... I dont boycott it, I dont rail against the studio, I certainly dont take time out of my life to espouse its failings.  
I move on to something I do like, I do enjoy and engage in activity i find enjoyable like seeing a movie I perceive as good.

Why would I dwell on the bad? There's thousands of other games that come out every year OTHER than call of duty, I play a select few of those, I enjoy.  People who like CoD can play their CoD and I can play my WWE games or my RPGs, or my Saints rows and GTAs and Sims, and so forth.  There's rooms for all types of fandom in this industry.

As for me I dont NEED to do something else as I actively enjoy bioware games to this day.  But you can damn sure bet the day I stop enjoying them... I'll just be gone.  No fanfare, no need for long winded leaving speeches, I just leave.  Like i've done with the bevy of MMO communites i've been a part of over the years.

The day something stops entertaining me, is the day I stop with it.

Trust me in the long run it makes one much happier

[slimgrin]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

RACDB wrote...

EW may have provided the soap but the whiners sure know how to work up the lather.

What their PR dept is doing is insulting to the fans, the very people Bioware makes money from. So they can expect plenty of lather.

You mean the fans that are already screaming about boycotts, who have already stated that they will NEVER buy anything from BioWare or EA again, who are doing everything they can to try and get BioWare shut down as a company?

BioWare's insulting those fans?

Good.

Those fans still bought the game dude, and many others who have expressed intelligent criticism only to be met with more spin. Cause you know, the only thing wrong with the ending is that some fans need more closure. 

I think it's worth noting that the devs of DX3 came right out and apologized for the poor boss fights, even listing reasons for why they turned out that way. Bioware has never done something like this. All they do is misdirect and make excuses. There isn't an ounce of humility.

Modifié par slimgrin, 15 avril 2012 - 05:46 .

[gXs_2]

At the end of the day, EA is still a business and they have to sell products in order to stay in business. This is actually really clever marketing. As the old saying goes, there's no such thing as bad press.

[kbct]

Emzamination wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

I am willing to be most of the people who gave out those perfect scores either did so after only playing either the demo or a small part of the game. I bet if they were truthful and were asked "did you play it all the way through including the ending", their answers would start out with "well, no but....."

That is a speculation and assupmption with no basis to justify your own anger. What is our community coming to these days?

I heard a significant percentage of the perfect reviews didn't even mention the ending.

[AkiKishi]

kbct wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

I am willing to be most of the people who gave out those perfect scores either did so after only playing either the demo or a small part of the game. I bet if they were truthful and were asked "did you play it all the way through including the ending", their answers would start out with "well, no but....."

That is a speculation and assupmption with no basis to justify your own anger. What is our community coming to these days?

I heard a significant percentage of the perfect reviews didn't even mention the ending.

You should post your graph here

[paul165]

Wulfram wrote...

It's not like they didn't have plenty of actually positive reviews they could quote, so I'm not sure why they chose to take that one out of context.

This - they had a lot of genuine positive reviews to use - why resort to quote mining. After all quote mining is what you do when you don't have anything else to support your position.

[Spectre_Shepard]

they are implying we liked the ending.

they are lying, essentially.

[kbct]

BobSmith101 wrote...

You should post your graph here

This graph?

[Emzamination]

slimgrin wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

RACDB wrote...

EW may have provided the soap but the whiners sure know how to work up the lather.

What their PR dept is doing is insulting to the fans, the very people Bioware makes money from. So they can expect plenty of lather.

You mean the fans that are already screaming about boycotts, who have already stated that they will NEVER buy anything from BioWare or EA again, who are doing everything they can to try and get BioWare shut down as a company?

BioWare's insulting those fans?

Good.

Those fans still bought the game dude, and many others who have expressed intelligent criticism only to be met with more spin. Cause you know, the only thing wrong with the ending is that some fans need more closure. 

I think it's worth noting that the devs of DX3 came right out and apologized for the poor boss fights, even listing reasons for why they turned out that way. Bioware has never done something like this. All they do is misdirect and make excuses. There isn't an ounce of humility.

Those fans also had receipts if the game didn't meet their expectations but chose not to use them and instead throw more money at bioware's gate, Bioware is not at fault. The dev and writers at bioware have organic brains of their own just like you do and not only have the right to differ in opinion from you but take pride in their own creations as well, Bioware is not at fault.

[Emzamination]

kbct wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

You should post your graph here

This graph?

no

[Gatt9]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

L00p wrote...

abaris wrote...

L00p wrote...

The best salesman are the one that actually talk truthfully, because people come back to that guy again and again.

While those slick MFs that try their best to fu.ck customers over, are left to fight for the scraps of new customers that still don't know about ther shady practices, until they have fu.cked him over so many times, leaving him no other option than to - you guessed it - seeing "our" salesman.

There has been a time when this was the case.

But now we're living in the corporate world and marketing has become just another way of ripping you a new one. And they're certainly not fighting over scraps. They're fighting over the proceeds of customer stupidity.

The best saleman is still the one being truthful.
What salesmen we *do* have today, is another matter, and I agree with your sentiments.

And here we are at the core of the issue: if people don't want to express their consumer rights just because the product is a game, thats a dangerous spiral towards a worse future for the little man in a corporate world.

Thank Cthulhu we have began to take back the industry from the criminals, indie devs starting making money for real now, through Steam and other channels, and with the funding of Wasteland 2, I believe we are seeing the start of something great, with the turning upside-down of the whole industry.

People always get the leaders they deserve, not calling a company out on bullsh!t "just because their product is a game" is certainly one way of making the little man worse off.

Honestly... as i've been a gamer for the last 25 years... i still have a hard time seeing the big companies as criminals.  Do I always agree with their practicies? Heck no, thats why I dont frequent some of them, I speak with my wallet.
I also dont like Wal-mart corporation, so I dont shop there... doesn't slow them down.. Also not a fan of Microsofts practices... but they're still kicking.

Bottom line is no matter how much you DISLIKE a company, if they have the right product at the right price... people will still frequent them and wont care in the long run.  Its sad but thats how consumers are.  Indie devs have always had a way to make money, the issue is though, as wide spread as gaming is, publshing and producing were cost prohibitive.

Its a lot like the underground music business. New guys ALWAYS have a hard time getting their stuff out there, they can and do and go on to do a lot, but theres a lot on the producing end that needs to be done thats not always easy to do for a small dev.

Thus thank god for kickstarters and internet.  Funny you mention steam though... I still know people who will NEVER trust valve or steam.

To each their own I guess *shrug*

I'd argue your comparisons aren't similiar in this instance.  Wallmart's policies hurt it's employees,  not the consumers.  Microsoft offers a fully functioning product with no hidden charges,  the criticism leveled against it is monopolistic,  which again is largely invisible to the consumers.

Publishers OTOH,  directly impact the consumer.  With hidden costs,  draconian DRM,  and the ability to completely determine what types of products are offered.

A similiar comparison would be if Hollywood started announcing that the only movies worth making are copies of Pirates of the Carribbean,  because it's pulled in billions and "How could a horror movie or a comedy hope to compete with that?".  Then,  the last 30 minutes of every movie would cost an extra $5.  DVDs and BluRay's would require a constant internet connection to watch,  and you could only watch it 5 times before the disc would become non-functional.

In fact,  some of these practices were tried,  and resoundingly rejected by the public.  DivX as pushed by Circuit City was just such a model for home viewing,  one Hollywood really wanted,  and one they knew better than to force.

The gaming industry doesn't get that.  They're not interested in trying to establish a healthy market,  they're interested in increasing revenues at any cost,  and they apparently believe Gamers are idiots incapable of thinking.

I mean honestly,  look at the PS3 version of Skyrim.  They knew it was broken on release,  they have so little respect for Gamers that they pushed it out the door,  ignored it,  and think people will buy their next game too.

Look at ME3,  a good chunk of what was stated about the game was false.  Gamers are upset,  and EA has so little concern they use them as PR.

I doubt gamers will continue to buy because a future game is the "Right product",  gamers have historically proven that they'll walk away from your company without thought if you keep handing them bad products.  Many studios over the years have ended up bankrupt that way.