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[tractrpl]

I've noticed that characters that are favs of guys tend to be despised by women players and vice versa. Ones that guys tend to despise, like Jack, are kinda forgiven by female players and vice versa. No?

[Karrie788]

tractrpl wrote...

I don't understand the Liara hate unless your a) a woman and/or an adept. If you're not an adept, her biotic abilities are just so damn useful that you take her everywhere in ME1 and long for a character with her abilities in ME2, and then jump for joy realizing you can have her almost the entire way in ME3. In truth, I didn't like her character in ME2, and in ME3 it was weird. Thought she was cute in ME1 when she was more innocent, but her usefulness as a squadmate cannot be repeated often enough.

How does being a woman make you more likely to hate Liara?
Oh, she's a very useful squadmate, I actually bring her along sometimes when I want singularity; on the other hand I barely use Tali although she's one of my favourites. Same with Miranda. Doesn't mean I enjoy her character.

[Pathero]

Diana Allers wasn't that bad compared to some. Personally I loathed Kai Leng. Just an absolute ponce.

Next on the list has got to be Jacob.

[wizardryforever]

Zix13 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I take it you haven't actually spoken to her, aside from the recruitment and loyalty missions, huh?

Did you ever bother to listen to her in ME3?

She isn't a serial killer, she's just angry and does whatever the hell she wants. She's killed people, but she doesn't make it a habit. She doesn't feel remorse for the people she kills (Most of the time the people she kills are scum anyway), but that doesn't automatically make her a horrible person, otherwise every single character in the entire franchise would be on the same level.

I take it you didn't talk to anyone on purgatory or watch her murder the disturbed guy on Pragia. She's a sociopath and enjoys killing people. You have a very selective memory. 

Purgatory was a slave-trading ring disguised as a prison, and some of the things that happened there were just horrendous.  Did you find Jack's "talk to" location on the Citadel?  It's in the club's bathroom, where she recounts being gang-raped on the Purgatory, and killing several attackers defending herself, but it wasn't enough.  They raped her anyway.  And let's not forget that Cerberus was conditioning her to attack whenever she felt threatened, and building her biotic abilities up to extreme levels.

As for Aresh, she actually doesn't kill him unless you egg her on.  It's a simple matter of saying "Jack, he's trapped in his past.  You need to move on from yours."  And presto, she lets him go.  Who's got the selective memory again?

[tractrpl]

Kolotosa wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

I don't understand the Liara hate unless your a) a woman and/or an adept. If you're not an adept, her biotic abilities are just so damn useful that you take her everywhere in ME1 and long for a character with her abilities in ME2, and then jump for joy realizing you can have her almost the entire way in ME3. In truth, I didn't like her character in ME2, and in ME3 it was weird. Thought she was cute in ME1 when she was more innocent, but her usefulness as a squadmate cannot be repeated often enough.

Whether or not she's useful doesn't factor into why I don't like her. I don't like her character (and her voice irritates me), and I can get by perfectly well without ever using her until the game forces her onto me. You can jump for joy all you want, and I'll continue to ignore her as much as I am permitted.

I bet your a woman. Look at my earlier post about characters that are favs of men tend to be despised by women and vice versa. Jacob is another good example. The dudes seem to universally hate him. Garrus is different. We like him as a bro but it seems less women find him appealing for obvious reasons, like the fact he's not human for one.

[Pathero]

tractrpl wrote...

I've noticed that characters that are favs of guys tend to be despised by women players and vice versa. Ones that guys tend to despise, like Jack, are kinda forgiven by female players and vice versa. No?

I quite liked Jack (eventually) she did at least seem to go through some fairly poignant character development, unlike Jacob.  I also hold an intese dislike for Ashley.

[PistolPete7556]

Allers. Least favorite squad members: Kaidan and Jacob

[DirtySHISN0]

tractrpl wrote...

Kolotosa wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

I don't understand the Liara hate unless your a) a woman and/or an adept. If you're not an adept, her biotic abilities are just so damn useful that you take her everywhere in ME1 and long for a character with her abilities in ME2, and then jump for joy realizing you can have her almost the entire way in ME3. In truth, I didn't like her character in ME2, and in ME3 it was weird. Thought she was cute in ME1 when she was more innocent, but her usefulness as a squadmate cannot be repeated often enough.

Whether or not she's useful doesn't factor into why I don't like her. I don't like her character (and her voice irritates me), and I can get by perfectly well without ever using her until the game forces her onto me. You can jump for joy all you want, and I'll continue to ignore her as much as I am permitted.

I bet your a woman. Look at my earlier post about characters that are favs of men tend to be despised by women and vice versa. Jacob is another good example. The dudes seem to universally hate him. Garrus is different. We like him as a bro but it seems less women find him appealing for obvious reasons, like the fact he's not human for one.

and his rocket face.

[wizardryforever]

Karrie788 wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

I don't understand the Liara hate unless your a) a woman and/or an adept. If you're not an adept, her biotic abilities are just so damn useful that you take her everywhere in ME1 and long for a character with her abilities in ME2, and then jump for joy realizing you can have her almost the entire way in ME3. In truth, I didn't like her character in ME2, and in ME3 it was weird. Thought she was cute in ME1 when she was more innocent, but her usefulness as a squadmate cannot be repeated often enough.

How does being a woman make you more likely to hate Liara?
Oh, she's a very useful squadmate, I actually bring her along sometimes when I want singularity; on the other hand I barely use Tali although she's one of my favourites. Same with Miranda. Doesn't mean I enjoy her character.

Strangely enough, women are more likely to judge other women than they are men.  The reverse seems to also be true for men, though.  It's done on an unconscious level; you don't even realize you're doing it.  I think tractrpl's point was that "hate" is a strong word for someone like Liara, with few faults to speak of.

[Karrie788]

tractrpl wrote...

I bet your a woman. Look at my earlier post about characters that are favs of men tend to be despised by women and vice versa. Jacob is another good example. The dudes seem to universally hate him. Garrus is different. We like him as a bro but it seems less women find him appealing for obvious reasons, like the fact he's not human for one.

You must be trolling.

[chris fenton]

Liara for squad mate.
Allers for all else.

[Karrie788]

wizardryforever wrote...

Strangely enough, women are more likely to judge other women than they are men.  The reverse seems to also be true for men, though.  It's done on an unconscious level; you don't even realize you're doing it.  I think tractrpl's point was that "hate" is a strong word for someone like Liara, with few faults to speak of.

That's true, it happens a lot IRL.
Personally though I don't "hate" Liara. Yes, she does irritate me, but I wouldn't go as far as saying I hate her.

[tractrpl]

Karrie788 wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

I don't understand the Liara hate unless your a) a woman and/or an adept. If you're not an adept, her biotic abilities are just so damn useful that you take her everywhere in ME1 and long for a character with her abilities in ME2, and then jump for joy realizing you can have her almost the entire way in ME3. In truth, I didn't like her character in ME2, and in ME3 it was weird. Thought she was cute in ME1 when she was more innocent, but her usefulness as a squadmate cannot be repeated often enough.

How does being a woman make you more likely to hate Liara?
Oh, she's a very useful squadmate, I actually bring her along sometimes when I want singularity; on the other hand I barely use Tali although she's one of my favourites. Same with Miranda. Doesn't mean I enjoy her character.

I think women are more social beings. They're willing to forgive a person's lack of utility if they have a "nice personality". Bleh. I need useful squadmates to save the galaxy. If you're not useful to me in that regard, I don't care about your story, I want you the hell off of my ship. Tali's ok even though the nerfed her in ME2 and ME3 mostly because she's integral to the story of fixing up the Normandy and negotiating peace between the quarians and the geth. If she wasn't useful in that regard, I'd want her the hell of my ship as well. As it was, there wasn't very many useless squadmates in ME3 other than EDI to be honest, and she doesn't need to be a squadmate.

[Jealous Beauty]

I take it you didn't talk to anyone on purgatory or watch her murder the disturbed guy on Pragia. She's a sociopath and enjoys killing people. You have a very selective memory.

I think the idea is that Jack can be redeemed/rehabilitated depending on how Shepard interacts with her in ME2.  She's a product of an extremely abusive upbringing, but she's able to overcome that if you "paragonize" her enough.

[Calliope]

Ashley
For some reason she just irritates the hell out of me......

[JosieFrances]

tractrpl wrote...

I've noticed that characters that are favs of guys tend to be despised by women players and vice versa. Ones that guys tend to despise, like Jack, are kinda forgiven by female players and vice versa. No?

I do really like Jack, however I disagree because I really didn't like Jacob in ME2. He seemed to improve in ME3 a little but still not so much ><

And Garrus is Awesome and very tempting to have a romance with (If I didn't Love Kaidan so much  haha) but yeah Garrus is one of the best characters in the franchise! I think it just depends on the person and what their tastes are, rather than the sex of the person.

[Pathero]

Karrie788 wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

I bet your a woman. Look at my earlier post about characters that are favs of men tend to be despised by women and vice versa. Jacob is another good example. The dudes seem to universally hate him. Garrus is different. We like him as a bro but it seems less women find him appealing for obvious reasons, like the fact he's not human for one.

You must be trolling.

I hated Garrus so much in ME1.  I just couldn't like him.  He seemed so whiney, and dispite having had a life full of experiences still needed to have Shepard there to validate his choices (or tell him he was wrong) it just seemed like he was only missing the emo fringe sometimes.

Contrast to ME2 where he became a very moral black and white kind of guy.  Made him more compelling.
I think they did a good job in ME2 of presenting you with a character, highlighting their flaws and then (usually in the loyalty mission) you find out why they are the way they are.  You then help them deal with the flaws.

Jacob just didn't seem to have any character.  At all.  Very bland

[Tom Lehrer]

Zix13 wrote...


I take it you didn't talk to anyone on purgatory or watch her murder the disturbed guy on Pragia. She's a sociopath and enjoys killing people. You have a very selective memory. 

If you talk to her you can tell her not to kill the guy on Pragia and will later on she will tell you she is happy she did not kill him. In deed talk about selective memory if you talk to her she talks about her reasons for killing. She does not feel sorry for killing people because the people she kills are seen as threats to her own life.

[Dot.Shadow]

Of the major characters:
Jacob Taylor. I dunno, he just didn't reveal anything important about himself which made me care.

Minor characters:
Diana Allers - War Asset farm.

[tractrpl]

Calliope wrote...

Ashley
For some reason she just irritates the hell out of me......

I liked her enough in ME1, but I she pissed me off in Horizon. For my renegade male shep I would bang Ash, then bang Miri, then bang Ash again in ME3, just use 'em as toys. About as much as they deserve.

[wizardryforever]

tractrpl wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

I don't understand the Liara hate unless your a) a woman and/or an adept. If you're not an adept, her biotic abilities are just so damn useful that you take her everywhere in ME1 and long for a character with her abilities in ME2, and then jump for joy realizing you can have her almost the entire way in ME3. In truth, I didn't like her character in ME2, and in ME3 it was weird. Thought she was cute in ME1 when she was more innocent, but her usefulness as a squadmate cannot be repeated often enough.

How does being a woman make you more likely to hate Liara?
Oh, she's a very useful squadmate, I actually bring her along sometimes when I want singularity; on the other hand I barely use Tali although she's one of my favourites. Same with Miranda. Doesn't mean I enjoy her character.

I think women are more social beings. They're willing to forgive a person's lack of utility if they have a "nice personality". Bleh. I need useful squadmates to save the galaxy. If you're not useful to me in that regard, I don't care about your story, I want you the hell off of my ship. Tali's ok even though the nerfed her in ME2 and ME3 mostly because she's integral to the story of fixing up the Normandy and negotiating peace between the quarians and the geth. If she wasn't useful in that regard, I'd want her the hell of my ship as well. As it was, there wasn't very many useless squadmates in ME3 other than EDI to be honest, and she doesn't need to be a squadmate.

It seems like you have difficulty with the concept of story and gameplay segregation.  Don't worry, there is help for your condition. 

But seriously though, I base my opinion on each squadmates on a) their personality, their importance to the narrative, and c) their interactions with others.  Gameplay concerns are secondary to all of that.  For certain classes, Mordin was almost useless as a squadmate.  Does that mean that he is a bad character?  Hardly.  Putting aside his awesome personality and mission, he's necessary to the plot.  But he is also the most useless character during the suicide mission, followed closely by Thane.  You can't just look at the gameplay to judge these guys.  It just seems so shallow.

[tractrpl]

JosieFrances wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

I've noticed that characters that are favs of guys tend to be despised by women players and vice versa. Ones that guys tend to despise, like Jack, are kinda forgiven by female players and vice versa. No?

I do really like Jack, however I disagree because I really didn't like Jacob in ME2. He seemed to improve in ME3 a little but still not so much ><

And Garrus is Awesome and very tempting to have a romance with (If I didn't Love Kaidan so much  haha) but yeah Garrus is one of the best characters in the franchise! I think it just depends on the person and what their tastes are, rather than the sex of the person.

My next paragon male shep will save Kaiden, I think. My paragons always romance Liara, and Kaiden was always a more useful squadmate to me. Besides, I'd like to see what happens if a male shep saves Kaiden.

[Karrie788]

Pathero wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

I bet your a woman. Look at my earlier post about characters that are favs of men tend to be despised by women and vice versa. Jacob is another good example. The dudes seem to universally hate him. Garrus is different. We like him as a bro but it seems less women find him appealing for obvious reasons, like the fact he's not human for one.

You must be trolling.

I hated Garrus so much in ME1.  I just couldn't like him.  He seemed so whiney, and dispite having had a life full of experiences still needed to have Shepard there to validate his choices (or tell him he was wrong) it just seemed like he was only missing the emo fringe sometimes.

Contrast to ME2 where he became a very moral black and white kind of guy.  Made him more compelling.
I think they did a good job in ME2 of presenting you with a character, highlighting their flaws and then (usually in the loyalty mission) you find out why they are the way they are.  You then help them deal with the flaws.

Jacob just didn't seem to have any character.  At all.  Very bland

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everybody should like Garrus. I'm cool with people hating Garrus, actually, there are very valid reasons to dislike him. But he's very popular among female ME fans, and Jacob wasn't liked by a lot of girls either, so tractrpl's post left me quite confused.
I admit I overreacted in that last post. Apologies.

[LastFadingSmile]

tractrpl wrote...

I bet your a woman. Look at my earlier post about characters that are favs of men tend to be despised by women and vice versa. Jacob is another good example. The dudes seem to universally hate him. Garrus is different. We like him as a bro but it seems less women find him appealing for obvious reasons, like the fact he's not human for one.

I am a woman. I don't like Liara. I also don't like Jacob, which is in direct opposition to your little theory about gender relations. I'm not sure why you can't just accept that people like/don't like people for reasons other than "what use are they to me" and move on without tossing around baseless generalisations inclined to inflame, but maybe we should all aspire to have such a utilitarian view of the people around us. Boy, that sounds like fun.

[tractrpl]

wizardryforever wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

I don't understand the Liara hate unless your a) a woman and/or an adept. If you're not an adept, her biotic abilities are just so damn useful that you take her everywhere in ME1 and long for a character with her abilities in ME2, and then jump for joy realizing you can have her almost the entire way in ME3. In truth, I didn't like her character in ME2, and in ME3 it was weird. Thought she was cute in ME1 when she was more innocent, but her usefulness as a squadmate cannot be repeated often enough.

How does being a woman make you more likely to hate Liara?
Oh, she's a very useful squadmate, I actually bring her along sometimes when I want singularity; on the other hand I barely use Tali although she's one of my favourites. Same with Miranda. Doesn't mean I enjoy her character.

I think women are more social beings. They're willing to forgive a person's lack of utility if they have a "nice personality". Bleh. I need useful squadmates to save the galaxy. If you're not useful to me in that regard, I don't care about your story, I want you the hell off of my ship. Tali's ok even though the nerfed her in ME2 and ME3 mostly because she's integral to the story of fixing up the Normandy and negotiating peace between the quarians and the geth. If she wasn't useful in that regard, I'd want her the hell of my ship as well. As it was, there wasn't very many useless squadmates in ME3 other than EDI to be honest, and she doesn't need to be a squadmate.

It seems like you have difficulty with the concept of story and gameplay segregation.  Don't worry, there is help for your condition. 

But seriously though, I base my opinion on each squadmates on a) their personality, their importance to the narrative, and c) their interactions with others.  Gameplay concerns are secondary to all of that.  For certain classes, Mordin was almost useless as a squadmate.  Does that mean that he is a bad character?  Hardly.  Putting aside his awesome personality and mission, he's necessary to the plot.  But he is also the most useless character during the suicide mission, followed closely by Thane.  You can't just look at the gameplay to judge these guys.  It just seems so shallow.

Mordin is useful as a research scientist. Most people forget that without Mordin you can't get any upgrades. Plus he's integral to the story. Therefore, he is useful. This is how I judge characters. Remember, I play as if it was me in real life there. If you're not useful, then I don't want you. You're background story is meaningless next to the realization that we're here to defeat the Reapers. Your "story" is meaningless compared to that.