15 réponses à ce sujet

[Dmasterman]

Usually when you make friends with your companions they care for you more and show their compassion. While Rivalry can get a different form of compassion.

However during the last Straw, should you have a friendship Anders, he seems to be fully aware of being his crime and ackknowledges what he did and seems to agree with his decision (with little regret)

Whilst a Rival Anders seems to understand his flaw and blames the spirit (Justice) within him to controlling him

[Foolsfolly]

Solution to what? I happen to prefer the Rival Anders character more than the Friend Anders, but that's just me.

[Arthur Cousland]

Either way, Anders expects to be killed for his actions, as a willing martyr, and is surprised if Hawke decides to spare him. I don't think one way is more noble than the other, though a rival Anders seems to be more "in character" when the chantry goes boom.

As a friend, Anders seems to be more in control of his body, while as a rival, Justice often takes over. On the friend path, Anders accepts the responsibility for his actions, while as a rival, he blames Justice. It is possible that Justice heavily influenced blowing up the chantry in both situations.

[Dmasterman]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

Either way, Anders expects to be killed for his actions, as a willing martyr, and is surprised if Hawke decides to spare him. I don't think one way is more noble than the other, though a rival Anders seems to be more "in character" when the chantry goes boom.

As a friend, Anders seems to be more in control of his body, while as a rival, Justice often takes over. On the friend path, Anders accepts the responsibility for his actions, while as a rival, he blames Justice. It is possible that Justice heavily influenced blowing up the chantry in both situations.

It's one thing when he states that he did this crime on his own

it's another if he says something that possesses him takes away his free will and does it

[KainD]

Because if you are friendly with Anders it means that you agree with him on the subject, and he feels supported by his friend, even though he thinks he has gone a little too far. And that's the thing, my Hawke for example DOES agree with Anders and his actions, and wouldn't even want him to feel bad about it, and thus friendship makes sense.

[Cantina]

I never in all my games rivaled romanced Anders; I just
cannot bring myself to do it. By choosing the rivalry path, you are essentially
on the side of the Templars and that makes my skin crawl. I have seen videos of
the rivalry romance path on Youtube and honestly, I am not a fan of it. Anders
seems more disconnected and distant then the friendship path making it even
harder to grasp him as a person.

I know at the end of the game he knew what he did was wrong
but at the same time too necessary. I always spare his life and runaway with
him at the end. Of course my character is like Anders on many levels and of
course toss in the fact she loves him deeply.

[keesio74]

I believe Anders and Merrill are the two characters best served rivaling. Merrill for obvious reasons. Anders, only because when you rival him, you try to sway him from his radical path. It didn't really hit me until I read the difference between rival and friendship at the end where when you rival him, you learn how much Anders has lost control of Justice and he is aware of it vs friendship where he never comes to this realization. It's kind of like Merrill except with Merrill you finally "get through to her" when she smashes the mirror. Too bad Anders was always meant to fail his "get through" attempt.

[keesio74]

Cantina wrote...

I never in all my games rivaled romanced Anders; I just
cannot bring myself to do it. By choosing the rivalry path, you are essentially
on the side of the Templars and that makes my skin crawl.

That is true. My issue is that he is more moderate in Acts 1 and 2 so I usually end up friending him. But by Act 3 he starts to spiral out of control and it is there where I want to really dissuade him. It is his Justice quest where I really really did not like what he was up to (and I refuse to help him distract that cleric). But usually by that time my friendship is too high with him and can't slip down fast enough into rivalry.

[keesio74]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

 It is possible that Justice heavily influenced blowing up the chantry in both situations.

I think it is highly likely. It is just that when you rival him, you are constantly questioning him and it forces him to think about what is really going on vs when you friend him, you are supporting him and never force him to recognize what Justice is doing.

[Arthur Cousland]

On the rivalry path, you also get more dialogue from Anders' "better half", which may be a good thing if you like seeing Justice take over and yell at Hawke.

[Big I]

Cantina wrote...
By choosing the rivalry path, you are essentially on the side of the Templars and that makes my skin crawl.

I was never on the side of the Templars when rivalling Anders, I was on the side of not thinking the vengeance crazed spirit possessing your mind and body was a good thing.

[LobselVith8]

keesio74 wrote...

I believe Anders and Merrill are the two characters best served rivaling. Merrill for obvious reasons.

What are the "obvious reasons" for Merrill? I didn't see a reason for Hawke to oppose her in rivalry. Merrill used magic proficiently for several years, she never abused her blood magic abilities, she was trying to construct an Eluvian so the People could benefit from the technology, she knew the risks involved, and she was willing to die for the risk of giving the elves a chance to restore their culture and prosper. Gaider has addressed that Merrill researched the lore on the Eluvian, and extrapolated information from the shard. She did her research. I found Merrill's goal admirable, and I wish Hawke was as proactive as Merrill was.

keesio74 wrote...

Anders, only because when you rival him, you try to sway him from his radical path. It didn't really hit me until I read the difference between rival and friendship at the end where when you rival him, you learn how much Anders has lost control of Justice and he is aware of it vs friendship where he never comes to this realization.

It seems more like Anders is tortured on the rivalry path, because he can't reconcile his symbiosis with Justice, which is the result of Hawke persuading Anders that his decision to merge with Justice was wrong, as well as opposing Anders' efforts to emancipate the mages from the Chantry controlled Circle. I didn't see a reason to rival him.

keesio74 wrote...

It's kind of like Merrill except with Merrill you finally "get through to her" when she smashes the mirror. Too bad Anders was always meant to fail his "get through" attempt.

Merrill gives up the Eluvian on Friendship as well. I honestly don't see how Hawke can "get through" to Merrill when Hawke is completely ignorant about the Eluvian, so he is basically telling a Dalish elf what to do with elven technology that he knows next to nothing about. All Hawke can do is make a guess about what he (or she) thinks is the right decision.

[Ryzaki]

@OP: It's a YMMV situation.

I prefer to rival Anders because my Hawke's a fan of moderation. While my Hawke does believe Circles are necessary (he'd rather the Chantry find somewhere else to sulk to steal a quote from Garrus) he's not all "RRRRRR all mages should die! [not unless they're blood mages anyway]."

[nightscrawl]

I prefer rival Anders by a huge margin. I'm in the middle of a first rivalmance play, so I'm excited to see how it turns out.

Generally I feel that the loss of control that you see in a rival is much more interesting and really seems to flow with all else that is going on around him. On the other hand, I do dislike that Anders basically blames Justice for the final act. It wasn't Justice that guilted me into helping him after he finally admitted to lying to me about what the reagents were for. Anders knew full well what he was doing then. I think that a combination of the two would have been a bit better, though admittedly it doesn't work with their friend/rival system as they have it in DA2.

Anders and Merrill in particular are the best examples of how your relationship and interactions with those companions can change based on your friend/rival status and why it's such a compelling method of working with the relationships in the game.

One of my favorite responses during PAX East was after a question about Anders...

From David Gaider...

I liked what happened to Anders. I think if I was to go back and do anything differently -- developing by hindsight is always an option for us obviously... -- but if I had the opportunity to go back, I think what I would have liked to have done is started in Act 1 an Anders that was a little bit close, I mean he had this big change -- I'm sure everyone knows what it is, it's not a spoiler -- he had become one with Justice, because we wanted to bring two characters forward, not just one. So I think if I went back I would have started with an Anders that was a little bit closer to when he was in Awakening, so the player could be on the same sort of journey with him. BUT, I don't disagree with the idea that he made this journey, that he had become a different character and had developed. Maybe not how a player who played Awakening might have expected, but I think that applies to other characters as well. Things are going to happen to those characters, things are going to happen as a result of your choices that are not what you might expect. Some of them will be, some of them won't be. But I think we'll do our best to make them interesting.

And I think this really illustrates where they wanted to go with Anders, even if they ended up not executing it as well as they might have done.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 17 avril 2012 - 08:43 .

[Always Alice]

In the Friendship path, Anders and Justice merge because his views are being supported, so he has no reason to question himself.On a rivalry path, his methods and views are questioned so he starts to second guess himself, causing him to resist Justice's influence which results in a visible split between the two.

I happen to vastly prefer the rivalry path to the friendship path, and this is coming from someone who generally sides with the mages at the end. The rivalry path is just so heartbreakingly beautiful and gut-wrenching; you can really see his breakdown and all the tragedy that surrounds him. The biggest reason I like the rivalry path is because you make him rethink his methods, and realize that voluntarily merging with a spirit is probably not the best idea. So in that case, you could say that it's more "noble," but really it all comes down to personal opinion.

My only annoyance with the rivalry path is that it assumes you're always siding with the templars, when really you could share similar views but disagree with how he goes about it (i.e Justice).