332 réponses à ce sujet

[bro_9009]

zenoxis wrote...
But the final blow for me came with this image:

Wow.. Just wow.. PR-machine in full throttle. Turn one of the worst reactions from fans to your game into a "great" thing and PR-opportunity.

[StElmo]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Oh My God! A company is trying to market its product by exaggerating and taking things out of context! This is seriously the first time such a thing has ever been done in the history of marketing!

Seriously, this is advertising. They aren't lying - the game has received a great many excellent scores, the ending is controversial (like it or not - and there are people who like it - it's got folks talking and debating and even, yes, speculating). Plus 95% of it is a very good game.

Go back and read through some of the things they said about this game.

This isn't like bethesdas overstatements, it's a lot worse then something you see for games that is generally accepted.

Also, that last 5% makes replaying the games impossible for some people, The reason why people replkayed ME2 was because of the high quality ending.

[shurryy]

xsdob wrote...

With a fanbase as crazy as this one, I don't blame them for being insulted by us and not wanting to associate with us.

We're rude, mean, spiteful, and we twist everything they say to fit a bull**** narrative we came up with, and only 1% of this whole fandom has the common sense to reel in the crazy nut job bat**** fans who do things that make us all look bad.

u mad bro?

[kegNeggs]

I see what you did there. I'd not put it like that but I agree on some points.

[Mystiq6]

StElmo wrote...
Go back and read through some of the things they said about this game.

This isn't like bethesdas overstatements, it's a lot worse then something you see for games that is generally accepted.

Also, that last 5% makes replaying the games impossible for some people, The reason why people replkayed ME2 was because of the high quality ending.

To be fair, I agree, the reason I'm not throwing myself at replaying ME3 is because the ending is just so bad but I don't think the good ending of ME2 is not the reason people replayed it. That would be true of any game with a decent ending.

People replayed ME2 not because the ending was good but because the game truly deserved that wonderful quote from Time magazine, "It's the Avatar of video games, but better written." I would love to rewind time, give ME3 at least a decent ending, and see what kind of quotes reviews produced about the game. The reviews could have been positively glowing, and there would be way more than 75 perfect scores. I'm sure most people would be willing to forgive the weaker parts of the game. I would.

(Although I suppose the "75 perfect scores" might well be different if the game had a good ending. One wonders how many of those were bought.)

Modifié par Mystiq6, 15 avril 2012 - 10:27 .

[Cyruge]

That's... disgusting. Using fan outrage as a means of making the game look good? It makes me sick.

[Phobius9]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Oh My God! A company is trying to market its product by exaggerating and taking things out of context! This is seriously the first time such a thing has ever been done in the history of marketing!

Seriously, this is advertising. They aren't lying - the game has received a great many excellent scores, the ending is controversial (like it or not - and there are people who like it - it's got folks talking and debating and even, yes, speculating). Plus 95% of it is a very good game.

I don't understand anyone saying that they hope Bioware sinks because of this, that's a thing I really, really hope does not happen

This.

[LordSlavius]

"No offence, but I f**king hate you and hope you die" xD

Smooth.

[Kroepoek]

If they want to turn this into a PR spin power to them. More souls to attract to let them realise Bioware cannot write a decent ending and it's complete ****e.

However, the part that gets me is "potentially devastating and deadly consequences from each decision" - 100 war assets to you sir!

[Mystiq6]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Oh My God! A company is trying to market its product by exaggerating and taking things out of context! This is seriously the first time such a thing has ever been done in the history of marketing!

Seriously, this is advertising. They aren't lying - the game has received a great many excellent scores, the ending is controversial (like it or not - and there are people who like it - it's got folks talking and debating and even, yes, speculating). Plus 95% of it is a very good game.

I don't understand anyone saying that they hope Bioware sinks because of this, that's a thing I really, really hope does not happen

That only justifies the email's existence. Does it need to exist? Sure, EA and Bioware are companies and need to make money. The game's price tanked very quickly, which is probably a clue as to how many units the game is pushing these days. The ending turned what should have been another fantastic, triple A, high budget title, what is otherwise probably one of the best games ever made, into something incredibly toxic for both Bioware and EA.

Does that justify how morally bankrupt it is? Certainly not. You can bet with the amount of spin Bioware and EA are doing to salvage it that the miscalculation made with the ending won't be a mistake Bioware is likely to repeat any time soon, pre-release promises or not. If Dragon Age 3 has a crap ending, even if absolutely nothing is said about the ending in any of its marketing efforts, that fans will be calling it another Mass Effect 3, and it will suffer the same fate as this. I hate EA as much as the next guy but for once they'll be on our side, if not for the same reasons: they won't let it happen.

Does that justify how morally bankrupt it is?

I see what I did there.

Modifié par Mystiq6, 15 avril 2012 - 10:50 .

[daecath]

zenoxis wrote...
it is my personal opinion that Bioware as a company has to die.

It's my opinion that it's too late. It seems like BioWare is dead already. I want to know what happened to the company that was started by three guys who spent their life savings to make games because they liked games. I want to know what happened to the company that had that kind of passion.

This doesn't feel like the BioWare I know. Maybe they can come back and make something great, but I doubt it. They're in bed with the devil. EA has a horrible reputation in the industry, most of it well deserved. And that's who BioWare has chosen to merge with. So yeah, I think the company started dying the second they signed the agreement with EA, and this is just them finally going flatline.

[daecath]

Mystiq6 wrote...
Does that justify how morally corrupt it is? Certainly not. You can bet with the amount of spin Bioware and EA are doing to salvage it that the miscalculation made with the ending won't be a mistake Bioware is likely to repeat any time soon, pre-release promises or not. If Dragon Age 3 has a crap ending, even if absolutely nothing is said about the ending in any of its marketing efforts, that fans will be calling it another Mass Effect 3, and it will suffer the same fate as this. I hate EA as much as the next guy but for once they'll be on our side, if not for the same reasons: they won't let it happen.

Then why won't they fix it this time? They will let it happen again, because they don't get it. They'll rush some piece of crap out, the fans will outcry, and they'll decide to dismantle the BioWare brand and distribute the resources to other areas.

[Mystiq6]

daecath wrote...

Mystiq6 wrote...
Does that justify how morally corrupt it is? Certainly not. You can bet with the amount of spin Bioware and EA are doing to salvage it that the miscalculation made with the ending won't be a mistake Bioware is likely to repeat any time soon, pre-release promises or not. If Dragon Age 3 has a crap ending, even if absolutely nothing is said about the ending in any of its marketing efforts, that fans will be calling it another Mass Effect 3, and it will suffer the same fate as this. I hate EA as much as the next guy but for once they'll be on our side, if not for the same reasons: they won't let it happen.

Then why won't they fix it this time? They will let it happen again, because they don't get it. They'll rush some piece of crap out, the fans will outcry, and they'll decide to dismantle the BioWare brand and distribute the resources to other areas.

I wish I had an answer for that, but I don't. I'm just as curious as anyone as to why this is playing out the way it is.

Why won't Bioware admit they messed up with the ending, regardless of perception (of what the ending means, either to us or to them)? (Blizzard sure would have, but then again Blizzard isn't capable of making a story this good.) Why won't they start an open dialog with the fans? PAX's Q&A was probably short on purpose. Why are they so tight-lipped on any details of the DLC? I can accept it. I don't like it, but I can accept it. Why does it seem like they're retconning the **** out of the ending with the DLC? Why won't they change the ending? Why is it going to take 3 months? Why does the ending have so many plot holes? Why won't they commit to making the ending DLC include game play? Will adding cinematics and extra dialog really satisy me? Probably not.

And what the hell is artistic integrity anyway?

Modifié par Mystiq6, 15 avril 2012 - 10:59 .

[Woodstock-TC]

the ad and its quote is the best sarcastic joke since Monty Pythons flying circus 

Modifié par Woodstock-TC, 15 avril 2012 - 11:00 .

[IrishRents]

zenoxis wrote...

After reading through all the statements that have been given by Bioware staff in response to the fan outcry over the ending, it is my personal opinion that Bioware as a company has to die. Take this post as you will, this is merely my opinion, I'm certain there are people out there that think Bioware can be redeemed later on in future games, but Bioware has gotten to a point where they're indirectly insulting the fans. Directly confronting us would be paramount to financial suicide so they've decided to hide the insults behind massive amounts of PR double talk thinking we won't find it. 

Artistic integrity, let's be honest, this is a defensive word, its only purpose was to attempt  to quell the uproar by tryin to validate the endings as they were. Their error was assuming people didn't know any better. Saying the ending was artistic is like saying the movie Barb Wire was artistic because it rips off of Casablanca. By constantly repeating the words "artistic integrity" over and over they do two things: 

1. They assume the customer isn't intelligent enough to realize it isn't artistic
2. They cheapen the meaning of the word art to include ripping off of things

Then of course there was the constant references to the 75 perfect scores they got from game critics. However, this was again another indirect insult towards fans. Essentially, what they've said is "you should like this game because game critics gave it a perfect score, ignore your own likes and dislikes and focus entirely on the critics, they know better than you do." Again, this is Bioware talking to the fans like they don't know any better and were incapable of figuring out what they liked, so they turn to the critics as another form of defense assuming that we the customers would be too ignorant to understand our own feelings and impressions of the ending, which only served to highlight the sheer absurdities of game critics as a profession. Why else is there such a massive disparity between the ratings being given on Amazon and Metacritic by average people and professional game critics?

But the final blow for me came with this image:


I can't even begin to express just how disgusted I was when I saw this. Bioware has attempted to turn the entire debacle (which they handled poorly from the word go btw) towards something in their favor with this ad. Once again, they assume that the customer doesn't know any better and by placing that quote from entertainment weekly they are entertaining the notion that any human being with half a brain wouldn't consult the internet to see why the game stirred up such controversy. Not only is the act of this distasteful, it is also a thinly veiled lie to anyone who doesn't know what the controversy is about. 

All of this can be coughed up to one major point and that is that Bioware thinks their customers simply aren't intelligent. They've made bad PR move after bad PR move, the only good one they've made is announcing that the EC DLC will be free. And no Bioware shouldn't die because they can't make good games, we the consumers know a good quality game. We see it; Mass Effect 3 had many moments that made it a good experience, but their attitude towards the customer, the people paying them money, is shameful and quite frankly idiotic.

Whether or not Bioware has changed its attitude towards the customer due to its interactions with EA or if its simply showing its true colors now is irrelevant, their view of the people paying them money has led them to this very epoch, where their fate will ultimately be chosen (ironic isn't it, making games of choice and what not) by the fans they think so lowly of.

Oh come off it! BioWare isn't going to stop marketing their product just because a large portion of fans didn't take to the ending! What attitude have they taken? If we go off the idea that they, BioWare, are deliberately insulting the fans with a poor ending, and defence of the ending, then I could say that they made 'A' (Spacebar) the master button just to upset me, me alone. They made a bad ending, and by the way; it is a subjective topic, claiming artistic integrity (though I don't ever remember BioWare saying this) is perfectly valid.

[DonYourAviators]

A while ago I was pondering this action and thinking how funny it'd be, but never thought it'd actually happen. So good. The endings are like the gift that keeps on giving.

[Laurencio]

It's not their fault people don't understand the term artistic integrity and try to twist its meaning. Artistic Integrity is in fact a valid concern, and it doesn't in any way imply that people do not understand the "art" behind it. It does not imply lesser intelligence, it does not imply lack of understanding and it does not imply that this game is magnificent art beyond all criticism. To see it as such is to read far more into the words than is actually there.

[Necroscope]

Artistic dintegrityeneration.

[Korubrus]

The start of the game could be called 'art'. Most of the game could perhaps be called 'art'. It was indeed a magnificent game!
But the ending can only be called a absolute clusterfuk of plot holes and confusion.

If Bioware needs to 'explain' their 'artful ending' to the majority of ME fans - its not art. It was a rushed ending, and it shows in how poorly it was executed.
And furthermore, I've NEVER ONCE heard of Bioware even ATTEMPT to 'EXPLAIN' in simple words their ending - why? Perhaps they dont even know, they threw the ending out there hoping it would 'slip under the radar' and hoping people would'nt be game enough to sound like they didn't understand it!

[Sarevok Synder]

HenchxNarf wrote...

You already did that. So you may want to revise your comment. However, Bioware has been pretty stellar to their fans. They're giving you free DLC which you don't deserve to clarify endings you didn't understand (apparently).

Wow, you like the ending, so this proves beyond all doubt that you are supremely intelligent (because you get it). You know those different colours really confused me, can you, like, explain it to me, but please put it in simple words?

[bro_9009]

It's just funny, reading statements about "art" and "artistic vision" while seeing so much PR-spin.

[Vox Draco]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

You already did that. So you may want to revise your comment. However, Bioware has been pretty stellar to their fans. They're giving you free DLC which you don't deserve to clarify endings you didn't understand (apparently).

Wow, you like the ending, so this proves beyond all doubt that you are supremely intelligent (because you get it). You know those different colours really confused me, can you, like, explain it to me, but please put it in simple words?

The funny thing is: The "artists" have made no attempt so far to really defend and/or explain their artistic ending. Sure, they won't change it, they say, because they stand to it. But why? what makes it so great? where are the authors of the ending stepping forward to protect their work?

instead they say: "We won't alter the end, but add more things to it"...This makes me laugh so much, because even though Starchild may remain etc...the fact that they are adding to their "art" is also a change and alteration. Like adding a nice hat to "MonaLisa" so she looks more fashionable. The picture remains the same, but still it is changed.  Bioware just refuses to admit it.

And by now I have the impression that Bioware is indeed so quiet about the ending because they still try to figure out themselves what its supposed to mean, including Walters and Hudson...

Modifié par Vox Draco, 15 avril 2012 - 11:28 .

[rivqa]

Mystiq6 wrote...

StElmo wrote...
Go back and read through some of the things they said about this game.

This isn't like bethesdas overstatements, it's a lot worse then something you see for games that is generally accepted.

Also, that last 5% makes replaying the games impossible for some people, The reason why people replkayed ME2 was because of the high quality ending.

To be fair, I agree, the reason I'm not throwing myself at replaying ME3 is because the ending is just so bad but I don't think the good ending of ME2 is not the reason people replayed it. That would be true of any game with a decent ending.

People replayed ME2 not because the ending was good but because the game truly deserved that wonderful quote from Time magazine, "It's the Avatar of video games, but better written." I would love to rewind time, give ME3 at least a decent ending, and see what kind of quotes reviews produced about the game. The reviews could have been positively glowing, and there would be way more than 75 perfect scores. I'm sure most people would be willing to forgive the weaker parts of the game. I would.

(Although I suppose the "75 perfect scores" might well be different if the game had a good ending. One wonders how many of those were bought.)

So true. When you think of the opportunity they lost...

[Grimwick]

Wow... if this is legit this just makes me sick...

[Benjo229]

Bump for intelligent post