315 réponses à ce sujet

[Asharad Hett]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Asharad Hett wrote...

Control = TIM and can never be the best ending. Keeping the reapers around can never be the best ending. Destroying yourself whilst controlling your enemies is nonsensical.

Not a fact.

If we're going to discuss it, I'd like to hear more.  My OPINION is that the repears are pure evil and that controlling pure evil cannot end well, especially if you destroy yourself in the process.

[Eudaemonium]

I think the point of Control is that it ostensibly leaves the galaxy in a much better place vis-a-vis the geth and the mass relays, but in doing so you take an incalculable risk. The issue with Control is that, while Shepard might be able to control the Reapers, there is no guarantee how absolute this control is, how long it will last, or even whether Shepard her/himself might eventually come to agree with the Reapers' original goals (its a long time until the end of the universe). The survival of the Citadel and Mass Relays only compounds this risk, since in all likelihood the Citadel will still remain the centre of galactic civilisation, permitting future Reaper invasions to potentially follow through with their original intended plans. I think this is how Control is meant to be taken, hence the subtle smile the Catalyst gives (that Shepard does not see) when she/he chooses this option. While the galaxy is in a better place now, there is an enormous risk that it might not be the case later: that is the risk you take.

[ArchDuck]

Asharad Hett wrote...
 If we're going to discuss it, I'd like to hear more.  My OPINION is that the repears are pure evil and that controlling pure evil cannot end well, especially if you destroy yourself in the process.

What if "fly into a blackhole" is your one and only order?

Modifié par ArchDuck, 15 avril 2012 - 07:40 .

[Asharad Hett]

ArchDuck wrote...

Asharad Hett wrote...
 If we're going to discuss it, I'd like to hear more.  My OPINION is that the repears are pure evil and that controlling pure evil cannot end well, especially if you destroy yourself in the process.

What if "fly into a blackhole" is your one and only order?

I'm destroyed... can I give the order?

[Geneaux486]

Lookout1390 wrote...
Do you have a fact stating otherwise?

Space magic 

Once again, terrible writing has left us little to make sense of.

You choose to see it that way, but that is not the way it is.

[KingKhan03]

Haha really? Give me a break The Reapers have murdered trillions on trillions...They are getting destroyed you know the objective from mass effect 1!?

[Dragoni89]

If you want to be the Illusive man. Which weirdly you fought the whole time *facepalm

[Bill Casey]

The Reaper King is in your head...
You're seeing the child that was killed by the Reapers...

The Reaper King couldn't take this form if he wasn't digging in your head...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 15 avril 2012 - 07:45 .

[Geneaux486]

Dragoni89 wrote...

If you want to be the Illusive man. Which weirdly you fought the whole time *facepalm

The Illusive Man indoctrinated himself jamming Reaper tech into his body and was incapable of taking control.  Shepard succesfully took control without doing the horrible things TIM did.  How can you say they're similar?

[Skarwael]

It looked to me that the relays got destroyed in control aswell. They might not explode, but they fall apart... quite badly. So badly they might just as well be destroyed :S

I always thought it was the paragon ending because it was the only ending with the apparent possibility of saving everyone, and not changing life as we know it (synthesis). People often say "The Illusive man wanted to control them, so it must be evil". That depends entirely on motivation - Renegade Shep might choose it because he/she wants to become a god or something, Paragon Shep might choose it because they'd prefer not to wipe out the Geth and kill EDI. Also, Star Brat doesn't say that you can't force the reapers to line up and file directly into their nearest star / blackhole. That'll kill 'em.

Another thing - if Star Brat is an evil genocidal maniac, why would he even give you the option of destroying the reapers? He could be trolling you with that option just as easily as control.

But I digress.

[Meltemph]

"You will die, you will lose everything you have/are" Umm...

It's a trap. >.>

Modifié par Meltemph, 15 avril 2012 - 07:46 .

[Commander Shepard the Grey Warden]

I strongly appreciate Geneaux486 right now.

[Bill Casey]

Skarwael wrote...

Another thing - if Star Brat is an evil genocidal maniac, why would he even give you the option of destroying the reapers? He could be trolling you with that option just as easily as control.

Shepard has to make the choice for himself, or it ruins his higher brain functions...
The Reapers employ psychological conditioning to bring people around to their way of thinking...
The more control they exert, the less useful a thrall becomes...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 15 avril 2012 - 07:52 .

[Asharad Hett]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Dragoni89 wrote...

If you want to be the Illusive man. Which weirdly you fought the whole time *facepalm

The Illusive Man indoctrinated himself jamming Reaper tech into his body and was incapable of taking control.  Shepard succesfully took control without doing the horrible things TIM did.  How can you say they're similar?

Because.... well..... THEY ARE. lol

[Geneaux486]

Commander Shepard the Grey Warden wrote...

I strongly appreciate Geneaux486 right now.

I'm essentially beating my head against a metaphorical brick wall, but thanks

Another thing - if Star Brat is an evil genocidal maniac, why would he even give you the option of destroying the reapers? He could be trolling you with that option just as easily as control.

The Catalyst isn't giving you the choices.  It didn't design the Crucible, it didn't build it, it didn't plug it into the Citadel, and it can't activate it.  The Catalyst is an expositional tool, merely telling you how you can activate the weapon that your side build. 

Modifié par Geneaux486, 15 avril 2012 - 07:50 .

[Vox Draco]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Assuming that Shepard continues to exist after the control ending, and his will is not simply imprinted onto the Reapers, Shepard is no longer human, and thus not guaranteed to be corrupted.

You don't need to be human to get corrupted (Reapers), you don't even need a body to get corrupted (Starchild)

There are so many unknowns about what Starchild says, and we have to make a decsion through which open window we want to plunge into an unknown darkness. that's the problem with this current ending, we have so much to speculate, it's not fun anymore...

[Meltemph]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...
Do you have a fact stating otherwise?

Space magic 

Once again, terrible writing has left us little to make sense of.

You choose to see it that way, but that is not the way it is.

No, it really is terribly written.  Your "facts" are taking everything the starchild is as being written as an info dump.  If it is to be taken at face value(just like every point in ME, right? Everything is always taken at face value in this game) then it is just a silly way to end an otherwise good story.

Modifié par Meltemph, 15 avril 2012 - 07:50 .

[Geneaux486]

Meltemph wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...
Do you have a fact stating otherwise?

Space magic 

Once again, terrible writing has left us little to make sense of.

You choose to see it that way, but that is not the way it is.

No, it really is terribly written.  Your "facts" are taking everything the starchild is as being written as an info dump.  If it is to be taken at face value(just like every point in ME, right? Everything is always taken at face value in this game) then it is just a silly way to end an otherwise good story.

No, it really isn't terribly written.  Taking the game at face value is precisely where my facts (not sure why you'd put that in quotations) come from.  That and supplementary developer comments, though for me all those did was confirm what I already assumed.  Based on the information in the game.  Funny how that turned out.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 15 avril 2012 - 07:53 .

[Talogrungi]

Your only source of information about the choices that you're asked to make is the creator of the Reapers; the entity responsible for incomprehensible suffering and death.

Personally, I'm not going to commit suicide just because this entity tells me it's a good idea.

[Geneaux486]

Talogrungi wrote...

Your only source of information about the choices that you're asked to make is the creator of the Reapers; the entity responsible for incomprehensible suffering and death.

Personally, I'm not going to commit suicide just because this entity tells me it's a good idea.

And the actual source of those choices is a weapon that organics designed, built, and deployed.

[KingKhan03]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...
Do you have a fact stating otherwise?

Space magic 

Once again, terrible writing has left us little to make sense of.

You choose to see it that way, but that is not the way it is.

No, it really is terribly written.  Your "facts" are taking everything the starchild is as being written as an info dump.  If it is to be taken at face value(just like every point in ME, right? Everything is always taken at face value in this game) then it is just a silly way to end an otherwise good story.

No, it really isn't terribly written.  Taking the game at face value is precisely where my facts (not sure why you'd put that in quotations) come from.  That and supplementary developer comments, though for me all those did was confirm what I already assumed.  Based on the information in the game.  Funny how that turned out.

But what the game has told us from Mass Effect 1 is that we have to destroy the reapers they are evil and responsible for the death of trillions. Now in the end of Mass Effect 3 we get the "reaper creator" essentially telling us but wait! you can control them or merge synthetic and organic life! Why would I even consider this? The Reapers are responsible for so many deaths they need to be destroyed imo.

[ArchDuck]

Talogrungi wrote...

Personally, I'm not going to commit suicide just because this entity tells me it's a good idea.

Whoa, how did you chose none of the endings?

[Bill Casey]

You're not supposed to take the ending at face value though...
The ending is supposed to be an "ambiguous ending" that generates "lots of speculation..."
"From everyone..."

Taking the ending at face value is not lots of speculation...
From everyone...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 15 avril 2012 - 07:58 .

[Meltemph]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...
Do you have a fact stating otherwise?

Space magic 

Once again, terrible writing has left us little to make sense of.

You choose to see it that way, but that is not the way it is.

No, it really is terribly written.  Your "facts" are taking everything the starchild is as being written as an info dump.  If it is to be taken at face value(just like every point in ME, right? Everything is always taken at face value in this game) then it is just a silly way to end an otherwise good story.

No, it really isn't terribly written.  Taking the game at face value is precisely where my facts (not sure why you'd put that in quotations) come from.  That and supplementary developer comments, though for me all those did was confirm what I already assumed.  Based on the information in the game.  Funny how that turned out.

No, it really isn't terribly written.

Ya, ya it is.

 

Taking the game at face value is precisely where my facts (not sure why you'd put that in quotations) come from.  That and supplementary developer comments, though for me all those did was confirm what I already assumed.  Based on the information in the game.  Funny how that turned out. 

So you are claiming that the intent of the ending wasnt to cause speculation?  Also, the comments dont support your case that the ending was good, only that the ending happened exactly like the child said, which would make the ending even worse.  The reason people are trying to rationalize the starbrat as a liar is because the only other conclusion is that the writer thought control and synthesis makes sense.  Also, means that the writers think that writing into the evolution of the universe taht synthetics will always destroy the organics, is an intelligent question.  

[The Angry One]

Bill Casey wrote...

So assuming the child was real, The Reaper King is taking the form of the child I watched the Reapers murder in the opening...

Think about what a monumental dick this creature is for a second...
He's quite clearly inside my head to some extent at least, because he's taken the form of the child I watched murdered by his minions...

You know, that's a good point.
The Catalyst takes the form of the kid Shepard saw murdered, who she's been having nightmare's about all this time... and doesn't call him on it?

As spacebaby smugly declares that organic life is preserved, you'd think Shepard would blurt out "What about the boy who's form you're copying? You didn't preserve him, did you? You made him die a painful, fiery death in terror! Now you have the gall to use his form and his voice to spread your propaganda?"