409 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Ketten wrote...

I dread going through my ManShep Tali-romance playthrough.

Only my opinion, but I think you will love it. So long as you did enough to prevent some cliff-diving.

[BentOrgy]

CronoDragoon wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Tali's romance was way better in ME3 if only because Shepard never says "Captain's orders."

Ugh that was awful!

Oh? You found the lifeless and impersonal twenty second pre Cerberus base scene better? And lets not forget that "Photo," we received. Really, a hand full of squad banter doesn't make me feel attached; actual conversations with actual depth do.

Combine that with the insulting treatment of Jacob and Thane, and in short OP, yes, it was a staggering step backward. Unless your name is Liara.

That scene was far from lifeless and impersonal. And the writing for Tali on Rannoch surpasses anything in ME2.

Compared to the Garrus one? Which, mind you, is almost the exact same scene, but better written, and is longer. Really, Tali's scene felt so generic and cliché that I just couldn't be interested, and the scene afterward? My Shep's parting lines are "Thanks," and he then buggers off, leaving Tali behind. No ability to actually inject any personality or empathy at all. No chance to actually feel like my Shepard and Tali had an actual relationship. Its like Bioware danced around all the times where there WAS actual development, and left us players only the sex scene in the end; which wasn't even a sex scene, hell, it was less intimate than the one we got in ME2.

The "Rekindle," scene was just as bad; I call her up, we chat about her becoming an Admiral, then BANG, "Do you still love me?" "Yes." "Oh cool, but we can't be too obvious." And that's about it; the entire exchange lasts for about three minutes, and ends with "Still totally worth it." Which was the only line that actually meant anything to me, and even then, it was a slight laugh.

ME3's value (What little it has for me.) is almost entirely pulled from ME1 and ME2. Is that a good thing? In a way, it IS a part of a trilogy, so the emotional attachements we formed in the two previous titles should carry over into the final act, however; when I feel as though ALL of my emotional attachment is drawn from the two previous entries, that is not good at all. ME3 fails to stand on its own for me, in terms of empathy and character.

And most of her dialogue on Rannoch is squad banter, which, like I said; isn't enough for me to feel engaged. Don't get me wrong; I liked some of the lines given "Tell again if its too quiet for you to sleep," it was playful, and a direct reference to ME1, but it was still a collection of one-liners with no ability to probe deeper.

In the end; ME3 had the most shallow and unbalanced Romances I've seen in a long time. I had more fun with Dragon Quest's romances than I did here.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 16 avril 2012 - 04:38 .

[kglaser]

I only did Garrus's romance so far, and I loved it. I wouldn't change anything.

[lillitheris]

No love at all for my LI fix proposals (see sig)? Insufficiently engaging, other problems you can point out?

Lots of complaints, few suggestions

Modifié par lillitheris, 16 avril 2012 - 04:52 .

[Raiil]

lillitheris wrote...

No love at all for my LI fix proposals? Insufficiently engaging, other problems you can point out?

If you're referring to your link in your sig, unless I missed something in the first post, Thane and Jacob mancers still get screwed. 

[AlexPorto111]

webhead921 wrote...

I think they were the best in Me3, when compared to Me1 and Me2. Also, I don't get why people are upset about the Jacob thing. A character moves on and finds someone else? It happens in fiction all the time. Based on Me2, Jacob and femshep didn't even really seem to have that strong of a relationship to begin with.

This.

Seriously,the Liara Romance is amazingly well done.It was by far my favorite of the entire trilogy.

[RShara]

Valentia X wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

No love at all for my LI fix proposals? Insufficiently engaging, other problems you can point out?

If you're referring to your link in your sig, unless I missed something in the first post, Thane and Jacob mancers still get screwed. 

This   I looked at the thread, and it's good, but doesn't address the probs of Thane and Jacob.
For Thane, I submit This Flowchart

[BentOrgy]

webhead921 wrote...

I think they were the best in Me3, when compared to Me1 and Me2. Also, I don't get why people are upset about the Jacob thing. A character moves on and finds someone else? It happens in fiction all the time. Based on Me2, Jacob and femshep didn't even really seem to have that strong of a relationship to begin with.

Except that he was evidently the ONLY one to do so. It came out of nowhere, and coupled with Thane's death, is one of the most mind-numbing things to happen to the characters we became so invested in.

AlexPorto111 wrote...
This.

Seriously,the Liara Romance is amazingly well done.It was by far my favorite of the entire trilogy.

And its no secret that Liara-mancers got the infinitely better romance in ME3. I love Liara, truly, and it killed a piece of me to end it with her during Lair, but it just proves how one-sided so many things were in ME3.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 16 avril 2012 - 05:01 .

[Ketten]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Ketten wrote...

I dread going through my ManShep Tali-romance playthrough.

Only my opinion, but I think you will love it. So long as you did enough to prevent some cliff-diving.

Oh good. Then I might just enjoy it. There's no risk of immediately getting her when she's available and not screwing myself over by locking myself out of other quests right?

Modifié par Ketten, 16 avril 2012 - 05:03 .

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Ketten wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Ketten wrote...

I dread going through my ManShep Tali-romance playthrough.

Only my opinion, but I think you will love it. So long as you did enough to prevent some cliff-diving.

Oh good. Then I might just enjoy it. There's no risk of immediately getting her when she's available and not screwing myself over by locking myself out of other quests right?

To my knowledge, the only quests that expire by the time you recruit Tali are Grissom Academy and the mission where you rescue Victus's son. And a bunch of fetch quests, I guess.

[Raiil]

RShara wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

No love at all for my LI fix proposals? Insufficiently engaging, other problems you can point out?

If you're referring to your link in your sig, unless I missed something in the first post, Thane and Jacob mancers still get screwed. 

This   I looked at the thread, and it's good, but doesn't address the probs of Thane and Jacob.
For Thane, I submit This Flowchart

That works, and it even works with my personal headcanon of Thane and fem!Shep going on a citadel date at Shepard's second visit to the Citadel (after she realises that Thane is there). I could easily insert that in... where the hell is that stupid script... 

[FlyinElk212]

Funnily enough, I think EVERYONE's romance took a step back...except Kaidan's. With both genders.

Hell I think you could easily argue Dudeshep/Kaidan is the best romance in the game. INCREDIBLY well written and heart-felt for what I thought would just be a random "LOL U HAS PEEN BUT WILL TALK TO YOU SAME AS IF GIRL" romance. And the Femshep/Kaidan is equally as powerful.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 16 avril 2012 - 05:14 .

[leapingmonkeys]

Just one of the many ways in which ME3 is disconnected from the rest of the series.

[JKuz]

I think the whole thing (Hell, every problem with ME3) boils down to this:

They needed at least 1 more year.

Hell DAO had what? -5 years? Looking at BW's development cycles I think three years should be an accepted minimum to keep this kind of stuff from happening

[Roxy Lalonde]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Hell I think you could easily argue Dudeshep/Kaidan is the best romance in the game. INCREDIBLY well written and heart-felt for what I thought would just be a random "LOL U HAS PEEN BUT WILL TALK TO YOU SAME AS IF GIRL" romance. And the Femshep/Kaidan is equally as powerful.

I quite liked how there was a significant narrative difference between the nature of M!Shep/Kaidan and F!Shep/Kaidan. And it wasn't treated that way because of gender, either, it was a matter of how the relationship was timed. I liked that a lot. 

(Would've liked it a whole lot freakin' better if Ashley was a same-sex option too.)

Modifié par Roxy Lalonde, 16 avril 2012 - 05:43 .

[lillitheris]

Valentia X wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

No love at all for my LI fix proposals? Insufficiently engaging, other problems you can point out?

If you're referring to your link in your sig, unless I missed something in the first post, Thane and Jacob mancers still get screwed.

By and large, you're right. It would be able to add some of the fade to black scenes for Thane, since he hangs out at Huerta early on, but not Jacob.

Jacob is probably completely out anyway. I could see some kind of a DLC that might, if done prior to the attack, save Thane or at least give some more time. I doubt they're willing to remove the finale, though…and improving it might not be forthcoming either. Samara might feature in a DLC, but I'm not sure if they want to change her story.

Mainly the suggestions intend to make the Normandy LIs more natural…but with minor tweaks, each non-squad LI will be on the Citadel at some point and they should apply then.

Modifié par lillitheris, 16 avril 2012 - 06:12 .

[SilentK]

webhead921 wrote...

RShara wrote...

webhead921 wrote...

I think they were the best in Me3, when compared to Me1 and Me2. Also, I don't get why people are upset about the Jacob thing. A character moves on and finds someone else? It happens in fiction all the time. Based on Me2, Jacob and femshep didn't even really seem to have that strong of a relationship to begin with.

He says, "I love you."  

People say "I love you" all the time, in fact it is very common in monogomous relationships.  That doesn't mean the relationship is particularly strong.  I've always felt that Jacob's was more physical attraction than anything.  Kaidan, Garrus, and Thane all seemed to have more meaningful relationships than Jacob.  Why is so hard for people to accept that a potential LI ends up with someone else?

There is no way to talk to Jacob, at all. The last convo in ME2 with my romanced Jacob is just wonderful, and through out the romance-arc he really stepts up ast someone who is there for FemShep.



The scene in which FemShep firsts tries to ask him how he is coping with the actions of his father he says it's fine. And turns it around, checking how things are with FemShep.

Jacob: So Shepard, how about we turn it around? What are you carrying? What do you need to get rid of?
FemShep's choice of answers
* survivor guilt
* the burden of command
* loneliness
* None of your buisness

And they are great, I was just overjoyed at that for it was the first time someone really asked FemShep how she was doing. Then Liara did the same in LotSB, and now Joker in ME3. But that, for me, meant so so much. He says "I love you" and their last convo is as I said before, just great. I do not understand how we went from

I love you  ------------------------->  "Didn't expect to see you again"

What happened. Feels like TIM sent Jacob false pic's of her snogging Vega or something? Brynn outright tells FemShep that Jacob still loves her. But you cannot react to it. It's pretty much. "Hi, I stole your man. Now plz save my life", add troll-pic here pretty much. Because you cannot react to it. Always play paragon so I would probably have saved the trollop anyways but it would have been nice if I had had a renegade option to just walk away. Then follows the wonderful convo at the hospital, when Brynn wants to name their child after FemShep. No,that didn't hurt at all. Get some more salt, I'm not quite sucidal yet.

I loved Jacob in ME2 and have more than one FemShep with him, how many times do you think you would like to get dumped? I think that there should have been some way to save it, but it could have cost messing something else like perhaps a N7-mission. If it was a branching story, you could get dumped but you could also save it. Then it would be role playing-gold. I did the Ultimate Sacrifice with one of my wardens back in DA:O. I like to see different things. The Kaidan-arc gave me butterflies, and I can't wait to see it again. My FemShep's with Jacob, getting dumped kind of become less fun after that first time.

Modifié par SilentK, 16 avril 2012 - 06:17 .

[lillitheris]

I do have to disagree on Liara slightly. Even though it's otherwise well made, it still takes several discussions before the relationship is really back on even if you've carried it true from ME and ME2 (even if you do fix the LotSB bug).

Those problems are mainly what my suggestions affect…but if you have others – small, easy to implement – please do add.

[Raiil]

lillitheris wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

No love at all for my LI fix proposals? Insufficiently engaging, other problems you can point out?

If you're referring to your link in your sig, unless I missed something in the first post, Thane and Jacob mancers still get screwed.

By and large, you're right. It would be able to add some of the fade to black scenes for Thane, since he hangs out at Huerta early on, but not Jacob.

Jacob is probably completely out anyway. I could see some kind of a DLC that might, if done prior to the attack, save Thane or at least give some more time. I doubt they're willing to remove the finale, though…and improving it might not be forthcoming either. Samara might feature in a DLC, but I'm not sure if they want to change her story.

Mainly the suggestions intend to make the Normandy LIs more natural…but with minor tweaks, each non-squad LI will be on the Citadel at some point and they should apply then.

I find Jacob's situation unacceptable. I'm a die-hard Thanemancer, but I can come up with a workable solution for Jacob that doesn't require much tweaking, even if he can't come on the Normandy.

Much of BioWare's goodwill from the series came from the fact that people were willing to get emotionally invested. Severing that investment due to complete laziness is unacceptable. Not a lot of people romanced Jacob? Tough s--t, they should have stepped up their game and proven that they can worth with those numbers and shown those who didn't want to bone Liara- or Garrus, or Tali, or the VS- that they, in fact, are valued customers whose opinion matters. 

[Roxy Lalonde]

I don't know why people keep saying they only see Jacob's attraction to Shepard as a physical thing. In ME2 he can say that he loves her, which, regardless of your perception of a partner saying that, means something in the context of his character. Even if you take into account the cringe-worthy "Hey there, stud" tone that rears its head every now and again during the romance, I don't know why people keep saying it's a physical thing for him.

[Karrie788]

Roxy Lalonde wrote...

I don't know why people keep saying they only see Jacob's attraction to Shepard as a physical thing. In ME2 he can say that he loves her, which, regardless of your perception of a partner saying that, means something in the context of his character. Even if you take into account the cringe-worthy "Hey there, stud" tone that rears its head every now and again during the romance, I don't know why people keep saying it's a physical thing for him.

He only says that when she turns him down. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, or maybe I just don't like Jacob enough to give him the benefit of doubt, but it seemed like he said it just to get into her pants.

But tbh that scene felt out of place. The best scene in Jacob's romance was the second conversation, I think, when he asked her how she felt. I honestly liked it. There was some good material, too bad they threw it out the window.

Modifié par Karrie788, 16 avril 2012 - 06:28 .

[SilentK]

Karrie788 wrote...

Roxy Lalonde wrote...

I don't know why people keep saying they only see Jacob's attraction to Shepard as a physical thing. In ME2 he can say that he loves her, which, regardless of your perception of a partner saying that, means something in the context of his character. Even if you take into account the cringe-worthy "Hey there, stud" tone that rears its head every now and again during the romance, I don't know why people keep saying it's a physical thing for him.

He only says that when she turns him down. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, or maybe I just don't like Jacob enough to give him the benefit of doubt, but it seemed like he said it just to get into her pants.

But tbh that scene felt out of place. The best scene in Jacob's romance was the second conversation, I think, when he asked her how she felt. I honestly liked it. There was some good material, too bad they threw it out the window.

Brynn even tells FemShep that Jacob still loves her, one of the many happy points in the Jacob ME3-romance.....

[Nieseln]

Agree with all the comments in the original post, re: Liara.Given what you'd been through in ME1 and the ME2 SB DLC, the standard reactions felt a bit cold - to be honest, I don't think this was distant for 'artistic' reasons, I felt it was more to reduce costs, so that her dialogue would be the same regardless of whether you were in a relationship or not. The relationship dialogues and scenes when done were very good, but in between it felt as though the relationship didn't even exist.

Look towards Baldur's Gate (or even DA to a certain extent) for better in game dialogue.

Still compared to the travesty that the was the ending of ME3, this is just nit-picking.

[Roxy Lalonde]

Karrie788 wrote...

Roxy Lalonde wrote...

I don't know why people keep saying they only see Jacob's attraction to Shepard as a physical thing. In ME2 he can say that he loves her, which, regardless of your perception of a partner saying that, means something in the context of his character. Even if you take into account the cringe-worthy "Hey there, stud" tone that rears its head every now and again during the romance, I don't know why people keep saying it's a physical thing for him.

He only says that when she turns him down. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, or maybe I just don't like Jacob enough to give him the benefit of doubt, but it seemed like he said it just to get into her pants.

But tbh that scene felt out of place. The best scene in Jacob's romance was the second conversation, I think, when he asked her how she felt. I honestly liked it. There was some good material, too bad they threw it out the window.

Considering ME3, I can totally understand not wanting to give Jacob the benefit of the doubt in that respect. In the singular circumstances of ME2, though, I don't think Jacob would say that just to get in her pants. I mean, he does seem to be trying to avoid being like his father, who did some pretty .. dishonourable things. I hadn't known it was when she turns him down that he says that, though! I thought it was just a Renegade option that made him say it. Hmm.

I always wondered why Jacob's romance arc seemed so rushed. Playing ME2 blind I thought he was going to be the game's "Kaidan", except more badass. But then a wild Bad Writing appeared! Which I try not to pin onto unintentional racism on the part of the writers. Which I do end up pinning on unintentional racism. Aghhh.

[Karrie788]

SilentK wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Roxy Lalonde wrote...

I don't know why people keep saying they only see Jacob's attraction to Shepard as a physical thing. In ME2 he can say that he loves her, which, regardless of your perception of a partner saying that, means something in the context of his character. Even if you take into account the cringe-worthy "Hey there, stud" tone that rears its head every now and again during the romance, I don't know why people keep saying it's a physical thing for him.

He only says that when she turns him down. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, or maybe I just don't like Jacob enough to give him the benefit of doubt, but it seemed like he said it just to get into her pants.

But tbh that scene felt out of place. The best scene in Jacob's romance was the second conversation, I think, when he asked her how she felt. I honestly liked it. There was some good material, too bad they threw it out the window.

Brynn even tells FemShep that Jacob still loves her, one of the many happy points in the Jacob ME3-romance.....

I saw that scene on youtube. I'm not even a Jacobmancer but I had a sudden urge of booting DA2 and have Fem!Hawke horribly killed.