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Did the romances clearly take a step back?


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#101
howieloader

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[quote]RShara wrote...

[quote]Wulfram wrote....
[quote]CerealWar wrote...

Shepard and Co. just standing there gawking while Thane fights for his life was just terrible. So much went wrong with that level. Introducing Leng as Shepard's rival/ foil. Aggh!

[/quote]

I took it that they couldn't safely get a shot in with all the cool martial arts stuff going on, so it didn't bother me too much.[/quote]
[/quote]
Sorry, there were TONS of places where they could have gotten shots in.  Not to mention the martial arts were kinda sad.
I mean...who charges a sword?  When they're holding a gun?

Picture analysis of KL vs Thane
[/quote]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I looked at your "analysis" and you've got a real problem... You can't appreciate art...
(Edit: Isn't quoting properly, weird.)

Modifié par howieloader, 15 avril 2012 - 11:22 .


#102
Asch Lavigne

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rivqa wrote...

mrbthq wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

Man, almost everything took a step back. Dialogue(and indirectly romances), exploration, freedom/non-linearity, character writing/motivations, theme(largely in the ending, but elsewhere as well), etc, etc, etc.

Only thing that seemed to take a step forward was gameplay, and only in certain ways(no more vehicle combat or mini-games, the shooting/cover aspects were pretty much perfected but they seem to have jsut given up on the rest).


This.


So very true, although I'll give them Rannoch and Tuchanka.


I also strongely agree with these statements. Though to me Tuchanka blew Rannoch out of the water.

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 15 avril 2012 - 11:18 .


#103
Auztin

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I liked the Ash Love Interest scene.It was similiar to the love scenes in action movies.

Modifié par Auztinito, 15 avril 2012 - 11:20 .


#104
rivqa

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Asch Lavigne wrote...

rivqa wrote...

mrbthq wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

Man, almost everything took a step back. Dialogue(and indirectly romances), exploration, freedom/non-linearity, character writing/motivations, theme(largely in the ending, but elsewhere as well), etc, etc, etc.

Only thing that seemed to take a step forward was gameplay, and only in certain ways(no more vehicle combat or mini-games, the shooting/cover aspects were pretty much perfected but they seem to have jsut given up on the rest).


This.


So very true, although I'll give them Rannoch and Tuchanka.


I also strongely agree with these statements. Though to me Tuchanka blew Rannoch out of the water.


I agree with that too -- Rannoch was excellent, Tuchanka was amazing.

#105
howieloader

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Vigil_N7 wrote...

You romanced Liara, you have no right to complain

She's so shoved down our throats that I'm sure she'd still be up for a threesome with Ash if Shepard asked her too


And yet, I have... and so have others...

Image IPB

#106
spacehamsterZH

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I've done the Liara, Miranda and Garrus romances so far. ME3 has far more frequent references to the romance subplots than the other two games did. Invalid complaint is invalid.

#107
Sublyminal

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Liaramancers complaining, what else is new? You guys have it GREAT compared to us Talimancers. Just look at the love scene you get. All we get is a ****ing fade to black, first the shopped pic and then a fade to black, gimme a break.

#108
Huyna

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Romances, romances...

I completed Lair of Shadow Yagh, but Liara said that they were intimate with Shepp "years ago".
Must be a glitch, maybe they will fixe it.

However, certain thins can be hardly fixed with patch. I can honestly say, that i expected more dialogs on romance part. Actually, i expected more dialogs (any kind of) in ME3, but, alas it did not happen, As well as so many things.
Though i liked Ashley LI story ark. Short, yes, but good. Feel sorry for those Shepps that romanced  Miranda/Jack.

And no Samara romance option. That could've been... interesting.

Modifié par Huyna, 15 avril 2012 - 11:59 .


#109
howieloader

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spacehamsterZH wrote...

I've done the Liara, Miranda and Garrus romances so far. ME3 has far more frequent references to the romance subplots than the other two games did. Invalid complaint is invalid.


The game has much less conversation than either of the 2 games before it, and I'm supposed to believe it has more frequent references to the romance subplots... Uh, no, it doesn't, and even if it did the general consensus at least in this thread seems to be that the romance dialogues have lacked emotion and in some cases feel disingenuous...

Poorly made point is poorly made... Am I doing that correctly?

Modifié par howieloader, 15 avril 2012 - 11:59 .


#110
Grimwick

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Huyna wrote...

I completed Lair of Shadow Yaghm but Liara said that they were intimate with Shepp "years ago".
Must be a glitch, myabe they will fixed it.


It's a confirmed bug. She is supposed to have some related dialogue to LotSB if you get back together again, you can find it on yt.

Unfortunately, as much as I would like it to be, it is unlikely to get patched. <_<

#111
Huyna

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Grimwick wrote...

It's a confirmed bug. She is supposed to have some related dialogue to LotSB if you get back together again, you can find it on yt.

Unfortunately, as much as I would like it to be, it is unlikely to get patched. <_<



Funny thing, she did confirm that Shepp participated in "Kill the Yagh" operation along with her, but that's it.

Anyway, they fixed somewhat similiar bug in DA2 eventually (Leilana had special line of dialog is Warden romanced her in DA:O, but, due glitch, it could never come up in DA2).  Took them months, though, and fan made patch was already available.  

Modifié par Huyna, 15 avril 2012 - 12:04 .


#112
Phobius9

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Zall wrote...

I felt like the Jack romance was perfect, despite the little screntime Jack got. Quality over quantity, she made me squeal like a little girl each time.

Overall, the romances were pretty good. I'd even dare to say, that getting dumped by Jacob is realistic and not worth all the outrage. If Jack had dumped Shepard and would get pregnant with some space pirate she was sincerely in love with - so what? As long as Jack was happy, I wouldn't mind.

/unpopular opinion


Disclaimer: I never romanced Jacob.

I actually thought that Jacob 'moving on' as it were was quite a refreshing and bold move. I liked that fact that, like Aveline in DA2, some of the characters felt like they had lives outside of Shepard's influence. It's always bugged me that everyone seems to be throwing themselves at Sheaprd left, right and centre. To have someone turn around and say "you know what, I can do better" feels more realistic. I dare say I wouldn't like it had I had Jacob as my LI, but then I doubt you're supposed to. Just like in real life - people make other people angry. It sucks, but then I think that was the point.

#113
UniqueNickname

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There is a option to renew the romance during Shadow Broker DLC and that's however is not taken into account in ME3. Also, I would stay with Liara on Shadow Broker ship in the first place after destruction of Collector base. My girlfriend is a damn Shadow Broker, what I should care about being charged of treason back on Earth...

But still you have to admit it went better for us than for others ...

#114
Arppis

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Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Just curious, can FemShep off Jacob?


Jeez people and their need to kill someone because their feelings got hurt...

#115
Bocks

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Are Liarafans seriously complaining? You get the one woman who clears the cipher, saves your body, becomes the Shadow Baker, finds the Crucible, writes your name is the stars, has the best romance scenes, has the best goodbye, has the most dialogue (even on the citadel), is one of the best squadmates, is pretty much on your squad from the get-go and you're COMPLAINING?

How do you think us people who romanced the ME2 characters feel?

No, really, how do you think we feel?

#116
SaladinDheonqar

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The whole reaffirming thing on the citadel was frankly appalling. Right when Liara joined me on Mars, I expected our relationship from the previous two games to kick in immediately and be taken to new heights over the course of ME3. Instead, we got friendzoned by her until you had to tell her again what you told her in LotSB. Even after that, things like the time capsule and the mind meld/memory share being available to non-romancers (and having no real difference if you did) just took away the uniqueness of the relationship. And she arguably had the best romance in the game! What does that say about the others?

#117
Grimwick

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Bocks wrote...

Are Liarafans seriously complaining? You get the one woman who clears the cipher, saves your body, becomes the Shadow Baker, finds the Crucible, writes your name is the stars, has the best romance scenes, has the best goodbye, has the most dialogue (even on the citadel), is one of the best squadmates, is pretty much on your squad from the get-go and you're COMPLAINING?

How do you think us people who romanced the ME2 characters feel?

No, really, how do you think we feel?


Look.. we know you have the worst deal and frankly that is what is so appalling.
Liara's romance had a lot of problems too.. many of the scenes you mention are generic and not romance specific. Liara has a lot less romance specific content than other characters actually (ME2 excluded) and the whole alienation thing screams bad writing. Despite her having some amazing scenes its overall a disappointent.. which is what makes it so awful that other romances have it WORSE off.

I can't imagine, that if Liara is described as the 'best', how bad the others are and that's the tragedy.

On a side note we have the right to complain so don't patronise us as I do actually agree that you got it worse off. 

#118
Acturas

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OP completely agree, I thought exactly the same. By the sounds of things though it was a lot worse for others!

#119
cogsandcurls

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Phobius9 wrote...

Zall wrote...

I felt like the Jack romance was perfect, despite the little screntime Jack got. Quality over quantity, she made me squeal like a little girl each time.

Overall, the romances were pretty good. I'd even dare to say, that getting dumped by Jacob is realistic and not worth all the outrage. If Jack had dumped Shepard and would get pregnant with some space pirate she was sincerely in love with - so what? As long as Jack was happy, I wouldn't mind.

/unpopular opinion


Disclaimer: I never romanced Jacob.

I actually thought that Jacob 'moving on' as it were was quite a refreshing and bold move. I liked that fact that, like Aveline in DA2, some of the characters felt like they had lives outside of Shepard's influence. It's always bugged me that everyone seems to be throwing themselves at Sheaprd left, right and centre. To have someone turn around and say "you know what, I can do better" feels more realistic. I dare say I wouldn't like it had I had Jacob as my LI, but then I doubt you're supposed to. Just like in real life - people make other people angry. It sucks, but then I think that was the point.


I think you would have a point if the Jacobmancers were (ingame) allowed to get angry. But the problem is that they aren't. You can't RP Shep being angry about it, or wanting to pick a fight with either Jacob or Brynn. The dialogue just doesn't exist. She can say something about "what about us" to Jacob, and Jacob will shrug it off it having been no big deal because Shep was under house arrest. Then, Shep can go and talk to Brynn about it, and Brynn will admit that she knows Jacob was in love with you when she started dating him but she doesn't regret it, because she knows that "[she] is better for him." That's actually really interesting from a characterisation POV! What can a cheated Shep say in response to that?

She can say "I'm done discussing this with you" (paraphrased). That's it. You can't slap her. You can't call her out on her attitude. You can't shout at her. And then later you still get the conversation with Jacob about him being a dad and Brynn wanting to name the baby after Shep. And the AUTO-DIALOGUE is "I'm happy for you. Really." Shep just can't call them out at all.

I feel like there are two issues going on here: firstly, that Jacob cheats at all. But say for the sake of argument we all agree that it's an interesting story development for Jacob to cheat? We come to problem #2: the game does not give players the resources to RP any sense of anger or betrayal on Shep's end.

I'm not even a Jacobmancer but, looking from the outside, I think the latter problem might actually be even worse than the first.

#120
Lyrandori

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In my opinion...

1) The "disconnection" (seemingly so, with reasons) from Liara and Shepard in ME3 (as LI's) compared to how it was portrayed in ME1 and followed in ME2's Shadow Broker is indeed very annoying and unfitting. If Shepard romanced Liara in ME1, remained loyal to her in ME2 and resumed the romance via LoSB, then there's no reasons why Liara would go "friend zone" with Shepard in ME3, only to have Shepard forced to reaffirm his/her love for Liara and his/her interest to "spend the rest of my life" with Liara. That one was just out of nowhere. When Liara said "just friends" I totally went numb and dumbstruck, staring at her and wondering "WTF BioWare? Forgot I romanced her? A little problem with story cohesion by any chance?". And of course it made that scene very unfitting and I pretty much had to correct it via head-canon (again, something I have to fix myself with my imagination). So, for that part, I agree.

2) With this said, I disagree however about Liara's placement / room in the Normandy. By that I mean that Liara should NOT be in Shepard's personal cabin. The Normandy is NOT the "couple"'s private apartment nor Liara's house on a beach, and it's not Shepard's home either. It's a war / reconnaissance ship that belongs to the Alliance, and chances are that the Alliance would grant specific space for specific personnel (just use some suspension of disbelief). Something else to consider, what would others on the ship think about that? Their Commander has a private cabin, spacious and comfortable, would "live" there with her beloved Liara, could have all sorts of fun and comforting and relaxing moments with her, while them poor "lesser" personnel have to do with shared rooms or have to go on a leave on their rented apartments on the Citadel and whatnot if they want to have some free time for themselves? That would be unacceptable.

What if Garrus, Vega, Ashley/Kaidan and Co. would like to have their own loved one with them on the Normandy? Just like Shepard? Could they? Should they? Would the Alliance agree? Would Shepard have anything to say about it? What would be "fair"? Anyway, I don't really like ME3 overall for many reasons, but that part... sorry but I have to compose with the fact that it's a time of war and exactly because of that Shepard and everyone else should stay focused (like Liara often says, and says so during LoSB after the fight is done). If Liara wants to "see" Shepard and have some time for themselves, then meeting at the cabin for that amount of time, and not repeating that too often could be acceptable, especially for something like Liara's time capsule project thing, that's appropriate. For a moment like the Liara's romance scene, that's an exception of sort just like it was in ME1's romance scene, and just like it was in ME2's DLC, those are cherished and important short-lasting moments. But for them to actually share the cabin permanently? No way, not under my watch.

I mean MY Shepard wouldn't accept it. Even if she'd die for Liara without a single moment of hesitation, and would totally marry her and have those blue babies by the dozens. It's the Normandy, c'mon. There's others on the ship, it's a team, a family, respect amongst each others. I just wouldn't want to share my personal cabin (which already by itself is a great advantage for the commanding officer to have) with Liara. I'm on duty on the Normandy I'm not on a leash. Some exceptions could occur, yes, some, but nothing permanent, nothing to distract from the tasks at hand.

Must remain focused, galaxy to save * (takes deep breath Mordin-style) * otherwise, problematic.

Modifié par Lyrandori, 15 avril 2012 - 12:49 .


#121
BatmanPWNS

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Vexille wrote...

I just want to know how Liara is able to break into my cabin repeatedly...


This.

I need better security. Then again she's the annoying SB, so she'll probably have cameras in my room.

#122
Oranet

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Well, when I ran my femshep and Jacob said (referencing Miranda), "She deserves a better man than me." I began ignoring him completely. Given he is a candidate for romance, the inference in that statement is, but I'm fine for you. And then in ME3 he goes and knocks up someone else...a one two punch if you romanced him in ME2 if ever I saw one. He seems more like his father wasthan not.

#123
Hyperion II

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I romanced every female option for maleshep from the first and second game.
They all sucked.

Ashley dislikes me for half of the game.
Jack and Miranda were demoted to extra (barely).
Tali and the photo was a kick in the teeth.
OP has sumed up Liara's.

I accepted it 'cause I thought the Ending will reward me in some way.
Shame on you Bioware and shame on me for trusting you after DA II.

#124
Phobius9

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cogsandcurls wrote...

Phobius9 wrote...

Zall wrote...

I felt like the Jack romance was perfect, despite the little screntime Jack got. Quality over quantity, she made me squeal like a little girl each time.

Overall, the romances were pretty good. I'd even dare to say, that getting dumped by Jacob is realistic and not worth all the outrage. If Jack had dumped Shepard and would get pregnant with some space pirate she was sincerely in love with - so what? As long as Jack was happy, I wouldn't mind.

/unpopular opinion


Disclaimer: I never romanced Jacob.

I actually thought that Jacob 'moving on' as it were was quite a refreshing and bold move. I liked that fact that, like Aveline in DA2, some of the characters felt like they had lives outside of Shepard's influence. It's always bugged me that everyone seems to be throwing themselves at Sheaprd left, right and centre. To have someone turn around and say "you know what, I can do better" feels more realistic. I dare say I wouldn't like it had I had Jacob as my LI, but then I doubt you're supposed to. Just like in real life - people make other people angry. It sucks, but then I think that was the point.


I think you would have a point if the Jacobmancers were (ingame) allowed to get angry. But the problem is that they aren't. You can't RP Shep being angry about it, or wanting to pick a fight with either Jacob or Brynn. The dialogue just doesn't exist. She can say something about "what about us" to Jacob, and Jacob will shrug it off it having been no big deal because Shep was under house arrest. Then, Shep can go and talk to Brynn about it, and Brynn will admit that she knows Jacob was in love with you when she started dating him but she doesn't regret it, because she knows that "[she] is better for him." That's actually really interesting from a characterisation POV! What can a cheated Shep say in response to that?

She can say "I'm done discussing this with you" (paraphrased). That's it. You can't slap her. You can't call her out on her attitude. You can't shout at her. And then later you still get the conversation with Jacob about him being a dad and Brynn wanting to name the baby after Shep. And the AUTO-DIALOGUE is "I'm happy for you. Really." Shep just can't call them out at all.

I feel like there are two issues going on here: firstly, that Jacob cheats at all. But say for the sake of argument we all agree that it's an interesting story development for Jacob to cheat? We come to problem #2: the game does not give players the resources to RP any sense of anger or betrayal on Shep's end.

I'm not even a Jacobmancer but, looking from the outside, I think the latter problem might actually be even worse than the first.


You know what? They're all valid points and I agree with all of them. I did go on YouTube to see what responses you could give, and on reflection I agree that they are lacking. The ability to slap Jacob or whatever is missing. Other crew mates should take a stand on the matter to. I would've liked Liara or whoever was with you at the time to voice their own opinions on the matter. I'll admit, the situation seems like it's half-baked. Bioware had a good concept, they just didn't run with it as far as they could, I guess.

#125
kalasaurus

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I've done two playthroughs with the Kaidan and Garrus romances.

Garrus is busy doing calibrations or talking with other squadmates. I guess I wasn't so bothered by his lack of dialogue since he's actually on the Normandy for most of the game (not as much as Liara, but almost). It would have been nice if I didn't have to rekindle his romance TWICE though. He gets on the Normandy, my Shepard kisses him and tells him they have some catching up to do... So, he waits until 3/4 into the game to ask her if she's sure about them together??? The sniping match date was perfect, though... I can't complain when looking at the VS, Thane, and Jacob romances. The sex scene with Garrus was a joke I must say. 3 seconds of kissing...

Kaidan... gone half the game. I guess I can understand the build up of gaining back his trust, but this Shepard stayed loyal to him for THREE games. She looked past his behavior on Horizon and later Mars. He waits to rekindle their romance, and they never talk again until they're having sex. The sex scene was rolling around in their underwear... waaaa?

From what I've seen, Liara gets the most facetime but she doesn't seem to have much more romance-exclusive dialogue than Kaidan or Garrus. I know there's a war going on, but if you're in a relationship with someone, why sleep in different rooms if you're already having sex? It seemed like they wanted to keep the door open if we wanted to change our minds before the sex scene.

Modifié par GlassElephant, 15 avril 2012 - 01:03 .