80 réponses à ce sujet

[Matthew Young CT]

the toolset doesnt have a prayer of running a console haha. cant believe anyone would ever think that.



as for respec, this isnt some exotic feature that was amazingly popular, i'm sure bioware considered respec in DA and decided against it. i fail to see why they would suddenly change their minds and put in respecs. especially one with no balance like the mod

[Sloth Of Doom]

Flintlock brings up a point here that i think a majority of people whining about no respec don't seem to understand:



Respeccing was left out f the game on purpose. Your companions level the way they do based on the character designs of those who created the characters. The game was designed to be played as is, adding a mod that changes core functionality is akin to cheating. why would bioware bother catering to whiners and cheaters when they could be doing something productive to move their IP forward?

[Darpaek]

camirish1 wrote...

Just because it would not be worth it to you doesn't mean it is worthless to others.

The converse is also true.  Because it has worth to you, doesn't denote worth for others as well.

Bio already bent over backward, delaying the game for almost a year, for you and your enjoyment.  Would you ask for more after they've already catered so much to your specific gaming demands?  Is your specific gaming style so important that you and yours merit even a slight diversion of DLC resources that would allow ALL to have more enjoyment instead of simply the few?

And I love the camp chest mod!  Definitely a must have!

[camirish1]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Seifz wrote...

camirish1 wrote...

Bottom of the gaming barrel? The respec mod (along with the camp chest) are the most popular mods currently in DA:O and are often claimed as a must for players on the PC. Judging from your post, you seemed to be mistaken in the fact that all DLC must be hours worth of content. The fact that the respec mod took only 2 weeks to make leads me to believe it could just be patched over in a console game update.

Just because it would not be worth it to you doesn't mean it is worthless to others.

No, but those "others" would much rather the developers spend their time on more worthwhile projects, such as more actual content.  There are only X zots to go around, and I don't want them wasting Y of them on such a worthless mod for the consoles.

Agreed, and if they make such a patch for the consoles, then they will feel obligated to readjust the power level of the game to compensate since you can now change your character dependant on the situation, which means either changing the game for those who don't want it too or having to make dlc with two different power levels due to whether or not the player has the respec option (in addition to the normal power level changes).

The game can already been beaten solo on Nightmare (not an easy task however).  Adding anymore characters to your party is just making it easier.  The game doesn't need rebalancing because of respecing; it just gives you more options to play around with.

[Seifz]

camirish1 wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Seifz wrote...

camirish1 wrote...

Bottom of the gaming barrel? The respec mod (along with the camp chest) are the most popular mods currently in DA:O and are often claimed as a must for players on the PC. Judging from your post, you seemed to be mistaken in the fact that all DLC must be hours worth of content. The fact that the respec mod took only 2 weeks to make leads me to believe it could just be patched over in a console game update.

Just because it would not be worth it to you doesn't mean it is worthless to others.

No, but those "others" would much rather the developers spend their time on more worthwhile projects, such as more actual content.  There are only X zots to go around, and I don't want them wasting Y of them on such a worthless mod for the consoles.

Agreed, and if they make such a patch for the consoles, then they will feel obligated to readjust the power level of the game to compensate since you can now change your character dependant on the situation, which means either changing the game for those who don't want it too or having to make dlc with two different power levels due to whether or not the player has the respec option (in addition to the normal power level changes).

The game can already been beaten solo on Nightmare (not an easy task however).  Adding anymore characters to your party is just making it easier.  The game doesn't need rebalancing because of respecing; it just gives you more options to play around with.

I'm willing to bet that 95% of players won't ever finish the game on Nightmare and that 99% of them won't do it solo.  You can't balance a game for the top 5% of players and expect everyone else to still enjoy it.  Just look at all of the "this game is too hard" topics, the adjustments to easy/normal difficulties, etc.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Can I get a respec mod for this thread? It's too hard to follow.

[Staylost]

Console needs respec.



And you guys: It obviously limits gameplay. The iterations of unique group combinations increases greatly with a total respec.



Regardless of how much PC users don't want consoles to get respec, it is an easy thing for Bioware to do. Simply zero out all preselected NPC stats/abilities when they join and let us choose them. If you are worried about having a set background for these characters, then just make those set backgrounds the autolevel preference.



Besides, this is an easy chance for Bioware to make good on their promise to bring PC user generated content to the consoles.

[bclagge]

Seifz wrote...

immortal_scream wrote...

there was a post back in november,on the kotaku live chat,and one of the developers said that they're working on putting the toolset onto the consoles.a bit of a heads up?

The only post I remember was one that said the toolset would never work on the consoles due to memory limitations (hi, 512MB of system memory in 2009) and that they were considering the possibility of getting user-generated content to work on the PS3 platform.  I highly doubt that they'll do it, though, since Sony greatly restricts things like that.

I would just like to point to Unreal Tournament 3 as an example.  This game has a large and dedicated modding community that produce content like it's going out of style.  Epic Games was able to work with Sony so that all maps and mods are available on the PS3 version of the game!  People with the PC version make the maps and mods and do a special cook for a PS3 version.  Then they make both the PC and PS3 versions available for download.  PS3 players can then download it to their PC and transfer it over with a flash drive to their PS3.

Just food for thought - I don't think Sony is the speed bump you suggest it is.

[Mordaedil]

Staylost wrote...

it is an easy thing for Bioware to do.

GTFO. Seriously.

[Darpaek]

Staylost wrote...

And you guys: It obviously limits gameplay. The iterations of unique group combinations increases greatly with a total respec.

OBVIOUSLY!  That must be why with the hundreds of thousands of copies of DA:O out there, the Raven (at the time of this post's writing) has barely 100,000 page views and 750 recommendations (one of them, mine).

Modifié par Darpaek, 06 décembre 2009 - 08:21 .

[FlintlockJazz]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Can I get a respec mod for this thread? It's too hard to follow.

Sure, I know how to do real life respecs...

*Hefts a big hammer*

Stay very, very still, otherwise I might respec out your ability to walk...

[Maria Caliban]

immortal_scream wrote...

nice answers there, but some justification would be appreciated

Why would someone justify not adding something to a game that was never intended to be there. There are also mods that let you see Morrigan's boobies, do we need a BioDev to come in an justify why that's not going to be a console DLC?

[Staylost]

Mordaedil wrote...

Staylost wrote...

it is an easy thing for Bioware to do.

GTFO. Seriously.

Please don't bring that type of immature conversation onto this site.

Apparently amateurs did it in two weeks, yet it is not easy for Bioware?

Perhaps you thought I meant "easy" as in "make a sandwich" easy. I did not. It would obiviously take work. But you are being disingenuous. Easy it is, when compared to making mods of equal value (since you have been rude before, I feel the need to explain this although it is obvious: value, here, is in the utility of the user of such mod).

[Darpaek]

Maria Caliban wrote...

immortal_scream wrote...

nice answers there, but some justification would be appreciated

Why would someone justify not adding something to a game that was never intended to be there. There are also mods that let you see Morrigan's boobies, do we need a BioDev to come in an justify why that's not going to be a console DLC?

In all fairness to Morrigan's boobies - the devs did render her nipples beneath that underwear for intended ease-of-use for the modding community...

[Surberus]

I dont want a respec, I just want group members that havent leveled along as far when they join up. And a lot of this had more to do with certain chars personalities.



I'd love to have a sword and board in my group, but Alistair pisses me the eff off and I dont want to play an s&b myself.



I'd love to have to 2 crowd control healer mages in my group, but I hate Morrigan, which leaves me playing a mage with Wynne (who I enjoy)



I love Sten, but would preefer if he wasn't stuck with a 2hander. I enjoy Leliana but wish she didnt have wasted points in Archery, which I dont use. I would use Zevran, but he annoyed me in that very first conversation and I dont really feel like dealing with him now.



The characters I actually enjoy are Leliana, Wynne and Sten - Wynne is the only one who is close to a build I actually want so the rest I feel like Im starting behind. Though I do let Sten run in the direction he has already started so as not to waste points.



I understand the OP's desire for a respec mod, but really I just want more control over my group mates.



I know that's not the point - the point being, hey, you just grouped up with these people, this is who they are, love 'em or leave 'em. Well most of them get left.

[Seifz]

bclagge wrote...

Seifz wrote...

immortal_scream wrote...

there was a post back in november,on the kotaku live chat,and one of the developers said that they're working on putting the toolset onto the consoles.a bit of a heads up?

The only post I remember was one that said the toolset would never work on the consoles due to memory limitations (hi, 512MB of system memory in 2009) and that they were considering the possibility of getting user-generated content to work on the PS3 platform.  I highly doubt that they'll do it, though, since Sony greatly restricts things like that.

I would just like to point to Unreal Tournament 3 as an example.  This game has a large and dedicated modding community that produce content like it's going out of style.  Epic Games was able to work with Sony so that all maps and mods are available on the PS3 version of the game!  People with the PC version make the maps and mods and do a special cook for a PS3 version.  Then they make both the PC and PS3 versions available for download.  PS3 players can then download it to their PC and transfer it over with a flash drive to their PS3.

Just food for thought - I don't think Sony is the speed bump you suggest it is.

I said that Sony greatly restricts things like that, and it's true.  As far as I know, UT3 is the only game that's managed to get mods on the PS3.  I truly don't know why that is, but it wouldn't surprise me if Sony just says "no" a lot.  Besides, EA/BioWare have to consider the effects of having user-generated content on 2/3 platforms, since Microsoft certainly won't allow it.  That might just be a bad business decision.  Hard to say.

Regardless, there's nothing "easy" about any of this.

[Darpaek]

Staylost wrote...

Easy it is, when compared to making mods of equal value (since you have been rude before, I feel the need to explain this although it is obvious: value, here, is in the utility of the user of such mod).

No one denies the value of a respec DLC for the console kiddies.  Your arguments suggest that such a feature is necessary for the game's enjoyment.  OBVIOUSLY, you are incorrect because not every PC user uses a respec mod (I'd take it a step further and say only a small minority use a respec mod).

However, it is impossible for you to quantify the added enjoyment factor from a respec DLC and, it is absolutely impossible for you to translate the "fun factor" into replayability.

I can guarantee, on the other hand, that using those DLC assets to make something that EVERYONE could enjoy would at least have the potential to boost the "fun factor" for everyone - instead of catering to a tantrum-throwing niche.

Therefore, all of your arguments in favor of respec DLC are based upon flawed premises and insubstantiated warrants and should be summarily dismissed and ignored until the console kiddie crowd can develop a substantial argument in favor of respec DLC.

BTW - can't you take your saved games off the console with a flash drive?  Therefore, wouldn't it be possible for you console kiddies to figure out how a computer works and make your own saved game editor allowing you to respec as you see fit?

[Staylost]

Darpaek wrote...

Staylost wrote...

Easy it is, when compared to making mods of equal value (since you have been rude before, I feel the need to explain this although it is obvious: value, here, is in the utility of the user of such mod).

No one denies the value of a respec DLC for the console kiddies.  Your arguments suggest that such a feature is necessary for the game's enjoyment.  OBVIOUSLY, you are incorrect because not every PC user uses a respec mod (I'd take it a step further and say only a small minority use a respec mod).

However, it is impossible for you to quantify the added enjoyment factor from a respec DLC and, it is absolutely impossible for you to translate the "fun factor" into replayability.

I can guarantee, on the other hand, that using those DLC assets to make something that EVERYONE could enjoy would at least have the potential to boost the "fun factor" for everyone - instead of catering to a tantrum-throwing niche.

Therefore, all of your arguments in favor of respec DLC are based upon flawed premises and insubstantiated warrants and should be summarily dismissed and ignored until the console kiddie crowd can develop a substantial argument in favor of respec DLC.

BTW - can't you take your saved games off the console with a flash drive?  Therefore, wouldn't it be possible for you console kiddies to figure out how a computer works and make your own saved game editor allowing you to respec as you see fit?

I never came close to suggesting that it was needed for enjoyment of the game.

Quantifying added enjoyment factors? You have stooped to heckling me, then? How could anyone ever quantify an enjoyment factor? This argument path is trash.

I haven't thrown a tantrum, I've made a reasoned position, while you appear to be getting emotional.

My arguments are not flawed, nor are they insubstatiated. But the fact that you use insults while trying to make this a debate would, in most debating circles, already make me the winner.

Your BTW seems like a great idea, but for some reason I think if Xboxlive figured out you did that, they would boot you.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Respeccing was left out f the game on purpose. Your companions level the way they do based on the character designs of those who created the characters. The game was designed to be played as is, adding a mod that changes core functionality is akin to cheating.

By that logic im a filthy cheater for having a chest in the camp. And the totally gamebreaking no helmets mod. I feel dirty.

Some examples how i've used the mod.

1) I want a melee rogue. I cba to play one. I dont like zevran. I changed leliana's 5 archery talents to 5 in dual wielding. So sue me. Vice versa I may want to have zevran, but I'd like a ranged damager.

2) I want to have oghren in my party for the banter. Alistair bores me after 2 playthroughs of him tanking. I change Oghren's 2handed talents into sword and board ones. Thats one gamebreaking advantage right there.

3) Nightmare runs require healing at certain points. Wynne is boring. Morrigan is not. I pick 3 1-st level spells from branches im never going to use, including the totally wasted spider transform point and invest in some spirit healer talents.

I get to hear new banter, play with different characters and not have a completely mismatched group.

Pardon while I visit the confession to repent for my sin.

[Darpaek]

That's the point I'm trying to make! You and your cohorts have yet to make an argument that can either be substantiated (ie - 62% of all PC users Respec) or that isn't an appeal to an anecdote ("more replayability!")



And if you don't want to suggest necessity - then don't use words like "obviously." Because, nothing you have said is obvious.



And when someone else presents you with a solution to your problem, is it your first tendency to think of reasons why it can't be done? If so, we might as well sit here and let the Blight overtake us! =D

[Seifz]

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Respeccing was left out f the game on purpose. Your companions level the way they do based on the character designs of those who created the characters. The game was designed to be played as is, adding a mod that changes core functionality is akin to cheating.

By that logic im a filthy cheater for having a chest in the camp. And the totally gamebreaking no helmets mod. I feel dirty.

Some examples how i've used the mod.

1) I want a melee rogue. I cba to play one. I dont like zevran. I changed leliana's 5 archery talents to 5 in dual wielding. So sue me. Vice versa I may want to have zevran, but I'd like a ranged damager.

2) I want to have oghren in my party for the banter. Alistair bores me after 2 playthroughs of him tanking. I change Oghren's 2handed talents into sword and board ones. Thats one gamebreaking advantage right there.

3) Nightmare runs require healing at certain points. Wynne is boring. Morrigan is not. I pick 3 1-st level spells from branches im never going to use, including the totally wasted spider transform point and invest in some spirit healer talents.

I get to hear new banter, play with different characters and not have a completely mismatched group.

Pardon while I visit the confession to repent for my sin.

That's all well and good, but that's not how BioWare designed those characters.  Leliana might work out just fine as a dual-wielding Rogue, but you generally get her early enough to do that if you want to anyway.  Oghren is a bezerker.  He has dialogue about it, he teaches it, etc.  He's not a tank.  Morrigan is just about the last person I'd expect any benevolent spirits to help.  She's not that kind of person.

This game is about the story and the characters. It wouldn't make any sense at all for BioWare to release a mod that allows you to completely change the characters.

[Darpaek]

Seifz wrote...

That's all well and good, but that's not how BioWare designed those characters.  Leliana might work out just fine as a dual-wielding Rogue, but you generally get her early enough to do that if you want to anyway.  Oghren is a bezerker.  He has dialogue about it, he teaches it, etc.  He's not a tank.  Morrigan is just about the last person I'd expect any benevolent spirits to help.  She's not that kind of person.

This game is about the story and the characters. It wouldn't make any sense at all for BioWare to release a mod that allows you to completely change the characters.

I agree with you on the issue, but I don't agree with the argument.  Also - this argument doesn't warrant them NOT release a respec DLC for the console kiddies.

I'm a story **** - and when I started respec-ing, I justified to myself that Leli's backstory sounded a lot more like a "dagger under the skirts" spy than a "bow slung over the shoulder" spy.  I would suggest that dually makes more sense for her, whereas stealth-based Zevran makes a lot more sense as an archery assassin.

As per Oghren - I've made him dually warrior because it's so much faster of a fighting style than 2h.  Plus, without Indomitable or Shield Wall, he's always getting thrown around by baddies and charges back into the fight immediately.  The story **** in me sees this as far more beserking behavior.

And Morrigan can learn SS at lvl 14 within the vanilla game.  I don't respec her specialization for story reasons - but I don't put points into it, either, at least until near the end game.  Nothing says that an SS necessarily has to have a benevolent spirit - just Wynne's spirit happens to be benevolent.    Think of the Fade Spirit from Asunder, for example.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

That's all well and good, but that's not how BioWare designed those
characters.  Leliana might work out just fine as a dual-wielding Rogue,
but you generally get her early enough to do that if you want to
anyway.  Oghren is a bezerker.  He has dialogue about it, he teaches
it, etc.  He's not a tank.  Morrigan is just about the last person I'd
expect any benevolent spirits to help.  She's not that kind of person.

This
game is about the story and the characters. It wouldn't make any sense
at all for BioWare to release a mod that allows you to completely
change the characters.

I would've never been able to have all baldur's Gate 2 NPC in my party and hear their banter if not for the Level 1 NPC Mod.

I played my first run without outside interference, as originally intended and for the story, but after that has been done, I want some new blood and voices to keep me company in the subsequent runs.

And Morrigan is able to become a spirit healer in the vanila game, so the "Morrigan is just about the last person I'd expect any benevolent spirits to help. She's not that kind of person." part of your argument is not valid.

I only ever changed talents, never stat points or skills.

Modifié par Heals.like.Jesus, 06 décembre 2009 - 09:19 .

[Rasputin-2]

I guess this is what has happened to this generation of gamers. If the game doesn't suit your needs, create a mod to basically "cheat" your way through it. Make it interesting and use what was given to you to start with,

[thegreateski]

Yes. . . I can see it now.



Wynne, formerly the sweet old lady, becomes a necromancer and takes great delight in summoning clouds of entrophic death to choke the life out her enemy.



That sounds like her.