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whay not make dragon age 3 with kickstarter


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#26
wsandista

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Maria Caliban wrote...

HanErlik wrote...

The Witcher 2, a far superior game to DA:II in many ways, was done with $6.5 million. Making a game is not very expensive, but promotions are very expensive. CoD:MW2's advertisement budget was three times bigger than its production cost.

Bioware can't use Kickstarter, because Bioware is a division of EA Games.

Given that the biggest expense on a software project is salary, couldn't that just mean tha CDProjket can pay its workers less because the cost of living isn't as expensive in Poland?


Yes wages are the bulk of the production cost of anything, but advertising is often a larger expense in the total cost. I remember seeing DA2 commercials a few weeks after it was released on Comedy Central, just like I saw ME3 ads almost every night during The Colbert Report last month. Those ads promote the game to the target audience, which means more total sales, so EA would be insane not to try marketing their products to their consumers since relying on word-of-mouth to spur sales generally means a game has to be both popular and excellent which is a very rare combination. 

Modifié par wsandista, 17 avril 2012 - 05:20 .


#27
Realmzmaster

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wsandista wrote...

Action-cRPGs compete with action games more than they compete with the more D&D(before 4ed) style cRPGs. The point that I was trying to make was that by making games more like Action-RPGs(goes for D&D as well) will mean that players who prefer more tactical RPGs will be less inclined to buy the games. Also the market is not only smaller in terms of consumers but producers, and since BW is one of the few(if not the only) AAA producers active in this niche market, losing the foothold they have could have severe consequences for them.


Actually losing the foothold will not have as much of an adverse affect on Bioware/EA as it will on the DA franchise. Bioware has many parts from the Mass Effect team to the Star Wars team. If Star Wars becomes a big money maker (It appears to be headed that way)  like WOW for Actvision Blizzrd, the lost of DA will not be dire. It would be dire for the fans of tactical party based cRPGS

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 17 avril 2012 - 08:59 .


#28
leeboi2

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What's even the point of this thread, seriously?...

#29
addiction21

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leeboi2 wrote...

What's even the point of this thread, seriously?...


It is the new cool thing so some decided to lob it like a grenade at the big mean coroporations.

I have thrown about 500$ at 2 projects and thats it for now. I am going to wait to see how they turn out. DoubleFine and Wasteland 2 but I am waiting to see how these turn out first.

#30
Sylvius the Mad

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Maria Caliban wrote...

HanErlik wrote...

The Witcher 2, a far superior game to DA:II in many ways, was done with $6.5 million. Making a game is not very expensive, but promotions are very expensive. CoD:MW2's advertisement budget was three times bigger than its production cost.

Bioware can't use Kickstarter, because Bioware is a division of EA Games.

Given that the biggest expense on a software project is salary, couldn't that just mean tha CDProjket can pay its workers less because the cost of living isn't as expensive in Poland?

That's a good point.  Edmonton is not a cheap place to employ people.

#31
wsandista

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Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Action-cRPGs compete with action games more than they compete with the more D&D(before 4ed) style cRPGs. The point that I was trying to make was that by making games more like Action-RPGs(goes for D&D as well) will mean that players who prefer more tactical RPGs will be less inclined to buy the games. Also the market is not only smaller in terms of consumers but producers, and since BW is one of the few(if not the only) AAA producers active in this niche market, losing the foothold they have could have severe consequences for them.


Actually losing the foothold will not have as much of an adverse affect on Bioware/EA as it will on the DA franchise. Bioware has many parts from the Mass Effect team to the Star Wars team. If Star Wars becomes a big money maker (It appears to be headed that way)  like WOW for Actvision Blizzrd, the lost of DA will not be dire. It would be dire for the fans of tactical party based cRPGS


True Star Wars does look like it will be quite profitable for EA/Bioware, but what happens when it's popularity wanes like WOW's seems to be. Blizzard is going to release Diablo 3 in a month, also the expanisions for Starcraft 2 will be released (relatively) soon. What alternative to StarWars does Bioware have if they lose that foothold? They have already angered many of the Dragon Age fans, and driven quite a few of the Mass Effect fans beserk. The severe consequence for them is mainly the loss of reputation, which is vital. Many people bought DAO because of Bioware's stellar reputation earned from games like KOTOR, NWN, and the BG series. So if they lose their sterling repuation for crafting some of the best party-based cRPGs avaliable, any new franchises they try to create will not have the instant appeal to many RPG enthusiasts as previous games released with the Bioware label had.

As far as the loss for fans of party-based ©RPGs, nature abhors a vaccum, logically some new company would rise to fill the niche Bioware would vacate.

Of course I don't want this to happen, I would be estatic if Bioware returned to their party-based roots and started releasing titles of Baldur's Gate 2 caliber again. I thnk Dragon Age has the potenial to get there but it has a lot of ground to cover.

#32
Realmzmaster

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wsandista wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Action-cRPGs compete with action games more than they compete with the more D&D(before 4ed) style cRPGs. The point that I was trying to make was that by making games more like Action-RPGs(goes for D&D as well) will mean that players who prefer more tactical RPGs will be less inclined to buy the games. Also the market is not only smaller in terms of consumers but producers, and since BW is one of the few(if not the only) AAA producers active in this niche market, losing the foothold they have could have severe consequences for them.


Actually losing the foothold will not have as much of an adverse affect on Bioware/EA as it will on the DA franchise. Bioware has many parts from the Mass Effect team to the Star Wars team. If Star Wars becomes a big money maker (It appears to be headed that way)  like WOW for Actvision Blizzrd, the lost of DA will not be dire. It would be dire for the fans of tactical party based cRPGS


True Star Wars does look like it will be quite profitable for EA/Bioware, but what happens when it's popularity wanes like WOW's seems to be. Blizzard is going to release Diablo 3 in a month, also the expanisions for Starcraft 2 will be released (relatively) soon. What alternative to StarWars does Bioware have if they lose that foothold? They have already angered many of the Dragon Age fans, and driven quite a few of the Mass Effect fans beserk. The severe consequence for them is mainly the loss of reputation, which is vital. Many people bought DAO because of Bioware's stellar reputation earned from games like KOTOR, NWN, and the BG series. So if they lose their sterling repuation for crafting some of the best party-based cRPGs avaliable, any new franchises they try to create will not have the instant appeal to many RPG enthusiasts as previous games released with the Bioware label had.

As far as the loss for fans of party-based ©RPGs, nature abhors a vaccum, logically some new company would rise to fill the niche Bioware would vacate.

Of course I don't want this to happen, I would be estatic if Bioware returned to their party-based roots and started releasing titles of Baldur's Gate 2 caliber again. I thnk Dragon Age has the potenial to get there but it has a lot of ground to cover.


WOW's popularity may be waning , but it is still a cash cow for Activion Blizzard which allows them to take as much time with other projects as they wish. WOW has had 8 years of stellar revenues and only now shows some signs of slowing down. WOW is still a highly profitable product, just like Steam is for Valve.
If SWTOR becomes the cash cow for Bioware then a steady stream of revenue means bigger budgets and the ability to maybe take more time with projects.

Bioware has not left it party based roots. DA2 for all its flaws is still one of the few  party based  cRPG out there. The only other cRPG games that have a party included  Dungeon Seige III and Mass Effect 3.

Is DA2 like DAO? No. Is DAO like BG or NWN? No. DAO and DA2 are closer in concept than DAO and BG (or NWN). IMHO.

#33
wsandista

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Realmzmaster wrote...

WOW's popularity may be waning , but it is still a cash cow for Activion Blizzard which allows them to take as much time with other projects as they wish. WOW has had 8 years of stellar revenues and only now shows some signs of slowing down. WOW is still a highly profitable product, just like Steam is for Valve.
If SWTOR becomes the cash cow for Bioware then a steady stream of revenue means bigger budgets and the ability to maybe take more time with projects.

Bioware has not left it party based roots. DA2 for all its flaws is still one of the few  party based  cRPG out there. The only other cRPG games that have a party included  Dungeon Seige III and Mass Effect 3.

Is DA2 like DAO? No. Is DAO like BG or NWN? No. DAO and DA2 are closer in concept than DAO and BG (or NWN). IMHO.


Yes a steady stream of revenue does negate the need to rapidly release titles to generate revenue.

But look at the next two titles Blizzard is releasing StarCraft2: Heart of the Swarm and Diablo 3. Both of those titles are continuations of franchises that have already been established, and neither one of those franchises has disappointed fans the way Dragon Age or Mass Effect has.

It's about reputation, Blizzard has a reputation for giving it's customers what they're expecting(varies between games), Bethesda has a reputation for creating "sandbox" games that focus more on exploration than the main plot. Biowares reputation for making outstanding tactical party-based cRPGs with great characters and a good plot was dealt a blow with Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3, which for various reasons greatly disappointed fans. If fans aren't expecting a title to be great they will not buy it in it's first week of release(let alone preorder a copy). Dragon Age 3 could severly damage Biowares reputation with certain groups of fans if it is not executed well.

For all the problems some fans had with Skyrim, it is still a sandbox that focuses more on exploration than the mainplot. From what I've seen StarCraft 2 is still a strategy game, and Diablo 3 looks like it will play like a Diablo game. DA2 did not feel tactical to me, it didn't feel like any PC i created was as close to their companions as my PCs in NWN, DA:O, NWN2:MotB, or BG(1or2). DA2 was not what I expected(or wanted) from a game marketed as a tactical party-based cRPG.

And yes paty-based cRPGs, paticularly tactical ones, have been slacking off in production in recent years but that trend seems to be reversing. Baldur's Gate is being re-released and the developers have stated that their intent is to make BG3. Wasteland 2 is being made(thanks to kickstarter), so there is another (hopefully) good party-based cRPG incoming. Finally Obsidian seems to be considering starting up an original cRPG franchise that will be like the stats-heavy cRPGs.

#34
Realmzmaster

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wsandista wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

WOW's popularity may be waning , but it is still a cash cow for Activion Blizzard which allows them to take as much time with other projects as they wish. WOW has had 8 years of stellar revenues and only now shows some signs of slowing down. WOW is still a highly profitable product, just like Steam is for Valve.
If SWTOR becomes the cash cow for Bioware then a steady stream of revenue means bigger budgets and the ability to maybe take more time with projects.

Bioware has not left it party based roots. DA2 for all its flaws is still one of the few  party based  cRPG out there. The only other cRPG games that have a party included  Dungeon Seige III and Mass Effect 3.

Is DA2 like DAO? No. Is DAO like BG or NWN? No. DAO and DA2 are closer in concept than DAO and BG (or NWN). IMHO.


Yes a steady stream of revenue does negate the need to rapidly release titles to generate revenue.

But look at the next two titles Blizzard is releasing StarCraft2: Heart of the Swarm and Diablo 3. Both of those titles are continuations of franchises that have already been established, and neither one of those franchises has disappointed fans the way Dragon Age or Mass Effect has.

It's about reputation, Blizzard has a reputation for giving it's customers what they're expecting(varies between games), Bethesda has a reputation for creating "sandbox" games that focus more on exploration than the main plot. Biowares reputation for making outstanding tactical party-based cRPGs with great characters and a good plot was dealt a blow with Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3, which for various reasons greatly disappointed fans. If fans aren't expecting a title to be great they will not buy it in it's first week of release(let alone preorder a copy). Dragon Age 3 could severly damage Biowares reputation with certain groups of fans if it is not executed well.

For all the problems some fans had with Skyrim, it is still a sandbox that focuses more on exploration than the mainplot. From what I've seen StarCraft 2 is still a strategy game, and Diablo 3 looks like it will play like a Diablo game. DA2 did not feel tactical to me, it didn't feel like any PC i created was as close to their companions as my PCs in NWN, DA:O, NWN2:MotB, or BG(1or2). DA2 was not what I expected(or wanted) from a game marketed as a tactical party-based cRPG.

And yes paty-based cRPGs, paticularly tactical ones, have been slacking off in production in recent years but that trend seems to be reversing. Baldur's Gate is being re-released and the developers have stated that their intent is to make BG3. Wasteland 2 is being made(thanks to kickstarter), so there is another (hopefully) good party-based cRPG incoming. Finally Obsidian seems to be considering starting up an original cRPG franchise that will be like the stats-heavy cRPGs.


There are some irons in the fire but most are at least 3 years off. BG1 and BG2 is just a remake of an existing game. It may be aimed at gamers who do not own the originals, but you can get them from GOG. So it is a remake not a re-release. The games never went off sale.

There is no real reason for someone who already owns the games to get the improved versions unless they add much more content. Just improving the graphics would not be enough for me to care and just adding a new area that really does not affect the plot is not a big deal.  I own the original collectors editions. They are still using the Infinity Engine, so the grahics may be good but I doubt they will match games like Skyrim. So the remake is not aimed at me.

A lot of what you have stated is maybes. BG3 is a maybe depending on how well their remake of BG1 and BG2 do. If the sales are not there BG3 will be a no go.

Wasteland has possibilities. The money has been raised and the release has been set for October 2013. The same team that did Wasteland is back along with Obsidian. I think the release date is very optimistic.

 Obsidian is thinking about an original cRPG franchise (but it will be involved with Wasteland until at least October 2013 or beyond), but Obsidian also gave us Dungeon Seige III and Alpha Protocol on one end and Fallout:New Vegas on the other. So the quality is all over the map. I am not optimistic about the new franchise if it happens. I will keep an eye on development.

I had high hopes for Dungeon Seige III hoping it would improve on ! and II, but sadly it did not.

I will wait and see what happens. There are a few independents that are making cRPGs, but none with the story telling ability of Bioware.

As far as the fans being disappointed with DA2 or ME3. Most are upset with ME3 because of the ending which is the last 10 minutes. So many are judging the game on that premise instead of the entire package . The rest of the game is brilliant. 

DA2 had potential. If the team had not rush development it could have been very good or excellent game instead of just (IMHO) a good game. I still like DA2 others do not. Others like Witcher 2 and Skyrim I do not for various reasons.

As I tell gamers YMMV.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 19 avril 2012 - 02:47 .


#35
wsandista

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Realmzmaster wrote...


There are some irons in the fire but most are at least 3 years off. BG1 and BG2 is just a remake of an existing game. It may be aimed at gamers who do not own the originals, but you can get them from GOG. So it is a remake not a re-release. The games never went off sale.

There is no real reason for someone who already owns the games to get the improved versions unless they add much more content. Just improving the graphics would not be enough for me to care and just adding a new area that really does not affect the plot is not a big deal.  I own the original collectors editions. They are still using the Infinity Engine, so the grahics may be good but I doubt they will match games like Skyrim. So the remake is not aimed at me.

A lot of what you have stated is maybes. BG3 is a maybe depending on how well their remake of BG1 and BG2 do. If the sales are not there BG3 will be a no go.

Wasteland has possibilities. The money has been raised and the release has been set for October 2013. The same team that did Wasteland is back along with Obsidian. I think the release date is very optimistic.

 Obsidian is thinking about an original cRPG franchise (but it will be involved with Wasteland until at least October 2013 or beyond), but Obsidian also gave us Dungeon Seige III and Alpha Protocol on one end and Fallout:New Vegas on the other. So the quality is all over the map. I am not optimistic about the new franchise if it happens. I will keep an eye on development.

I had high hopes for Dungeon Seige III hoping it would improve on ! and II, but sadly it did not.

I will wait and see what happens. There are a few independents that are making cRPGs, but none with the story telling ability of Bioware.

As far as the fans being disappointed with DA2 or ME3. Most are upset with ME3 because of the ending which is the last 10 minutes. So many are judging the game on that premise instead of the entire package . The rest of the game is brilliant. 

DA2 had potential. If the team had not rush development it could have been very good or excellent game instead of just (IMHO) a good game. I still like DA2 others do not. Others like Witcher 2 and Skyrim I do not for various reasons.

As I tell gamers YMMV.


Disappointment is disappointment, ME3 was brilliant other than the auto-dialouge and the ending true, but those two things have RUINED the franchise for many fans(or at least the ones who are angry enough to rage about it). I agree with you that DA2 had potential but it was rushed and messy, and still disappointed many fans even if they thought that the premise is good. If you are expecting to be disappointed with a game, the chance that you will be disappointed rises dramatically. Dragon Age 2 was a good game(IMO), it just was not what I was expecting after having played DAO.

The BG remake is not aimed at those who own a working copy of BG(I'm about to start speculating here), but at those who enjoyed the game but lost/sold it and those who have been hearing about what a great game it was for years on various forums but never played it(this statement assumes that those groups also prefer a hardcopy to a download and would not buy products from GOG, who knows why).

I agree with you that Obsidian is hit-and-miss with their games, but we will have to wait and see before we can judge the quality of whatever they're cooking up. Like you said when they do something right it is outstanding.

The point I was trying to make was that they're expecting some renewed intrest in tactical cRPGs and certain compaines are attempting to capitialize on it by producing products they hope will appeal to consumers. Is it definite, no. Will there be some low-quality games in produced , of course.

My main hope is that Bioware will notice and start producing games closer to what made them the best cRPG developer(IMO).

#36
Melca36

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Realmzmaster wrote...

[

WOW's popularity may be waning , but it is still a cash cow for Activion Blizzard which allows them to take as much time with other projects as they wish. WOW has had 8 years of stellar revenues and only now shows some signs of slowing down. WOW is still a highly profitable product, just like Steam is for Valve.
If SWTOR becomes the cash cow for Bioware then a steady stream of revenue means bigger budgets and the ability to maybe take more time with projects.

Bioware has not left it party based roots. DA2 for all its flaws is still one of the few  party based  cRPG out there. The only other cRPG games that have a party included  Dungeon Seige III and Mass Effect 3.

Is DA2 like DAO? No. Is DAO like BG or NWN? No. DAO and DA2 are closer in concept than DAO and BG (or NWN). IMHO.


Guild Wars 2 will  leach another 2-3 million subscribers off of WOW. 

#37
Realmzmaster

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Melca36 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

[

WOW's popularity may be waning , but it is still a cash cow for Activion Blizzard which allows them to take as much time with other projects as they wish. WOW has had 8 years of stellar revenues and only now shows some signs of slowing down. WOW is still a highly profitable product, just like Steam is for Valve.
If SWTOR becomes the cash cow for Bioware then a steady stream of revenue means bigger budgets and the ability to maybe take more time with projects.

Bioware has not left it party based roots. DA2 for all its flaws is still one of the few  party based  cRPG out there. The only other cRPG games that have a party included  Dungeon Seige III and Mass Effect 3.

Is DA2 like DAO? No. Is DAO like BG or NWN? No. DAO and DA2 are closer in concept than DAO and BG (or NWN). IMHO.


Guild Wars 2 will  leach another 2-3 million subscribers off of WOW. 


A decline in subscriptions for WOW was inevitable. WOW has been going strong for over 8 years and still claims a large portion of the market. Both SWTOR and the upcoming Guild Wars 2 along with a decline in the Eastern markets have played a part in the subscription drops. 
Nevertheless WOW is still a cash cow for Actvision-Blizzard and will be so for some time to come. This fact allows companies like Blizzard and Valve to take as much time as they want with other products like Starcraft or Diablo. 

A steady stream of revenue is essential to any business. Blizzard and Valve can do this without having to release products periodically to provide that stream.

EA is late to the game with SWTOR and Origins. They are hoping to establish that stream of revenue. Whether they succed are not is to be determined. 

#38
FedericoV

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Realmzmaster wrote...

 Obsidian is thinking about an original cRPG franchise (but it will be involved with Wasteland until at least October 2013 or beyond), but Obsidian also gave us Dungeon Seige III and Alpha Protocol on one end and Fallout:New Vegas on the other. So the quality is all over the map. I am not optimistic about the new franchise if it happens. I will keep an eye on development.


Alpha Protocol is a brilliant game. It's rough and has some plain weak points. But I enjoyed it a lot nonetheless.

#39
Realmzmaster

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FedericoV wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

 Obsidian is thinking about an original cRPG franchise (but it will be involved with Wasteland until at least October 2013 or beyond), but Obsidian also gave us Dungeon Seige III and Alpha Protocol on one end and Fallout:New Vegas on the other. So the quality is all over the map. I am not optimistic about the new franchise if it happens. I will keep an eye on development.


Alpha Protocol is a brilliant game. It's rough and has some plain weak points. But I enjoyed it a lot nonetheless.


Alpha Protocol is a brilliant game in your humble opinion.  Unfortunately, many did not share your opinion.  It is like DA2, which I enjoyed nonetheless. 
Dungeon Seige III is simply painful. 

#40
FedericoV

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Realmzmaster wrote...

Alpha Protocol is a brilliant game in your humble opinion.  Unfortunately, many did not share your opinion.  It is like DA2, which I enjoyed nonetheless.


Yes, it's a positive opinion just like your previous negative ones. I guess we're even :D.

Btw, who are those "many" who disliked AP? The many critics, the same critics who incensed DA2 and ME3 knowing that they were just lying about those games and lied about Obsidian's AP and FO:NV too ****ing about bugs (then giving a perfect score to Skyrim who has lot more bugs than those games, just like anything Bethesda). Last time I cheked, the user score for AP in Metacritic was way higher than DA2 (and even ME3).

The critics have killed AP before it has a chance: but the people who have actually played it (don't take it as a loaded question, just curiosity: have you played it?) know that the game is way better than what the "professional reviewer" (LOL) have to say on the matter.

The difference between DA2 and AP is quite simple (in my experience, off course): AP has a soul while DA2 has not. The way both games were designed, produced, marketed and released explains everything. AP was played by very few people because of bad reviews and most people who have played it, actually liked it. DA2 was played by a lot of people thanks to marketing and hype, the critics "strangely" have helped it but most people who have played it, actually did not liked it a lot.

Modifié par FedericoV, 20 avril 2012 - 01:24 .


#41
DeadPoolX

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FedericoV wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Alpha Protocol is a brilliant game in your humble opinion.  Unfortunately, many did not share your opinion.  It is like DA2, which I enjoyed nonetheless.


Yes, it's a positive opinion just like your previous negative ones. I guess we're even :D.

Btw, who are those "many" who disliked AP? The many critics, the same critics who incensed DA2 and ME3 knowing that they were just lying about those games and lied about Obsidian's AP and FO:NV too ****ing about bugs (then giving a perfect score to Skyrim who has lot more bugs than those games, just like anything Bethesda). Last time I cheked, the user score for AP in Metacritic was way higher than DA2 (and even ME3).

The critics have killed AP before it has a chance: but the people who have actually played it (don't take it as a loaded question, just curiosity: have you played it?) know that the game is way better than what the "professional reviewer" (LOL) have to say on the matter.

The difference between DA2 and AP is quite simple (in my experience, off course): AP has a soul while DA2 has not. The way both games were designed, produced, marketed and released explains everything. AP was played by very few people because of bad reviews and most people who have played it, actually liked it. DA2 was played by a lot of people thanks to marketing and hype, the critics "strangely" have helped it but most people who have played it, actually did not liked it a lot.

I played AP and thought it was terrible.  Fortunately, I didn't waste much money since I got it cheap on a Steam sale.

My problems boil down to these:

1. Control Issues -- AP was really designed with a gamepad in mind.  It works with the mouse-and-keyboard, but only barely.  The controls just aren't very responsive and seem awkward.

2. Hacking -- The hacking mini-game is atrocious.  It's blindingly hard to see what's happening and it's difficult beyond reason.  I've read that most people recommend using a gamepad while sitting back a few feet to complete it. 

Why should I do that?  I bought a PC game and I expect to play it like a PC game.  That means sitting at a normal distance in front of my monitor and using the mouse-and-keyboard.  If I'd wanted a console experience, I'd play games on a console.

3. Save Game Options -- This game doesn't let you manually save wherever and whenever you want.  It doesn't even do quicksave, if I recall correctly.  Instead, it's an RPG where only checkpoints and save points are used. 

That's insane.  RPGs are long games, especially when decisions are involved.  I rarely replay games, so I have no intention of replaying the entire game simply to get a different result.  I expect to save the game and load it to try out different choices.  Plus, without the ability to save, it stifles exploration.  I won't try new and different approaches if dying means having to redo the last 30 minutes of gameplay. 

No, the lack of a manual save doesn't make the game more challenging, it simply makes it more frustrating.  The ability to save should be there.  If someone doesn't want it, then they can simply avoid using it. 

There's no reason to remove usability options under the guise of "making it challenging."  That's something to do with gameplay itself, not disabling a feature of the hardware.

4. Dialogue -- You have a very limited window in which to respond to people when in a discussion.  Some people might like this, but I certainly don't.

I want to think over what they said and respond carefully.  I don't have time to do that if I have to pick a choice immediately. 

Yeah, some people might say it's more realistic, but so would limiting the player to one life, where if they die, there's no continuing on.  In other words, realism often takes a backseat to gameplay.  This is, after all, a game, which is intended to be entertaining.  If I want the constraints of real life, I don't need to buy a game.

Modifié par DeadPoolMK, 20 avril 2012 - 05:02 .


#42
-Semper-

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DeadPoolMK wrote...

1. Control Issues -- AP was really designed with a gamepad in mind.  It works with the mouse-and-keyboard, but only barely.  The controls just aren't very responsive and seem awkward.


there's nothing wrong with mouse+keyboard. controlling the hacking game with the mouse is a bit clumsy but in no way complicated. i've got no problems with response.

DeadPoolMK wrote...

2. Hacking -- The hacking mini-game is atrocious.  It's blindingly hard to see what's happening and it's difficult beyond reason.


besides the other minigames this one is the most difficult one, yes. but at least it gives a challenge where challenge is needed! just compare it with other games (like fallout 3) where the minigames are fukkin' easy... after doing them once i was bored to death and wished to get rid of them. btw if you don't like them you can buy items to skip them completely...

DeadPoolMK wrote...

3. Save Game Options -- This game doesn't let you manually save wherever and whenever you want.  It doesn't even do quicksave, if I recall correctly.


so what?! the checkpoints are placed fairly and often. where would the challenge be if you could just quicksave everywhere and save-load your way through the game? if you need checkpoints to get all the content out of a game instead of playing it again there's simply something wrong with you ;)

DeadPoolMK wrote...

4. Dialogue -- You have a very limited window in which to respond to people when in a discussion.  Some people might like this, but I certainly don't.


well... as an agent you have to think and react under pressure, sometimes even let your instincts guide you - that was the intent of the design decision which was integrated in a perfect way. in fact ap was the first game where dialgoues felt like real conversations between people without dropping you out of atmosphere.

Modifié par -Semper-, 20 avril 2012 - 05:59 .


#43
Realmzmaster

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FedericoV wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Alpha Protocol is a brilliant game in your humble opinion.  Unfortunately, many did not share your opinion.  It is like DA2, which I enjoyed nonetheless.


Yes, it's a positive opinion just like your previous negative ones. I guess we're even :D.

Btw, who are those "many" who disliked AP? The many critics, the same critics who incensed DA2 and ME3 knowing that they were just lying about those games and lied about Obsidian's AP and FO:NV too ****ing about bugs (then giving a perfect score to Skyrim who has lot more bugs than those games, just like anything Bethesda). Last time I cheked, the user score for AP in Metacritic was way higher than DA2 (and even ME3).

The critics have killed AP before it has a chance: but the people who have actually played it (don't take it as a loaded question, just curiosity: have you played it?) know that the game is way better than what the "professional reviewer" (LOL) have to say on the matter.

The difference between DA2 and AP is quite simple (in my experience, off course): AP has a soul while DA2 has not. The way both games were designed, produced, marketed and released explains everything. AP was played by very few people because of bad reviews and most people who have played it, actually liked it. DA2 was played by a lot of people thanks to marketing and hype, the critics "strangely" have helped it but most people who have played it, actually did not liked it a lot.


I admit AP is not as bad as Dungeon Siege III. Yes, I have played the game. The controls if you are using mouse and keyboard are barely functional and the save points are fixed like in some jRPGs I have played. That  is two strikes. The third strike is the hacking mini-game which is far more trouble than its worth. AP shows lack of polish (much like DA2) in certain aspects.

#44
FedericoV

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Realmzmaster wrote...

I admit AP is not as bad as Dungeon Siege III. Yes, I have played the game. The controls if you are using mouse and keyboard are barely functional and the save points are fixed like in some jRPGs I have played. That  is two strikes. The third strike is the hacking mini-game which is far more trouble than its worth. AP shows lack of polish (much like DA2) in certain aspects.


I respect your opinion and I imagine we will agree to disagree. I've played it with the gamepad on the PC and it was mostly fine (that's the way I play every game who's been developed with that controller in mind and I find it better than m/k for third person's titles). I have no issues with the save points: it fits action RPGs better than save/reload systems.

I agree that the game wasn't polished and as I said in my first post, it has some plain and blatant weakness. But I had a lot of fun with it, especially with the branching storyline. As a whole it was a good gaming experience. In general, I don't get all the negativity from the critics when other games who shows the same number of problems get a free pass.

#45
Realmzmaster

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FedericoV wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I admit AP is not as bad as Dungeon Siege III. Yes, I have played the game. The controls if you are using mouse and keyboard are barely functional and the save points are fixed like in some jRPGs I have played. That  is two strikes. The third strike is the hacking mini-game which is far more trouble than its worth. AP shows lack of polish (much like DA2) in certain aspects.


I respect your opinion and I imagine we will agree to disagree. I've played it with the gamepad on the PC and it was mostly fine (that's the way I play every game who's been developed with that controller in mind and I find it better than m/k for third person's titles). I have no issues with the save points: it fits action RPGs better than save/reload systems.

I agree that the game wasn't polished and as I said in my first post, it has some plain and blatant weakness. But I had a lot of fun with it, especially with the branching storyline. As a whole it was a good gaming experience. In general, I don't get all the negativity from the critics when other games who shows the same number of problems get a free pass.


I respect your opinion.  We can agree to disagree. I usually do not play with a game pad on the PC.. The mouse is my preferred controller of choice. I may have to change that stance. I cannot use the keyboard with my left hand the way I use to. Arthritis in the left hand limits mobility. May be easier if I use a game controller.

I have problems with checkpoints because it does not allow me to save when I want where I want like other cRPGs. It harkens back to the days when you could only save at an inn. I have become spoiled by saving anywhere at anytime, because it easier when you have children . Happily they are now all grown.

My big gripe with Dungeon Siege II and III is that they took away that capability.

#46
DeadPoolX

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-Semper- wrote...

there's nothing wrong with mouse+keyboard. controlling the hacking game with the mouse is a bit clumsy but in no way complicated. i've got no problems with response.

I'm glad it worked for you.  However, I had problems and in my opinion, the game handled poorly with the mouse-and-keyboard.

-Semper- wrote...

besides the other minigames this one is the most difficult one, yes. but at least it gives a challenge where challenge is needed! just compare it with other games (like fallout 3) where the minigames are fukkin' easy... after doing them once i was bored to death and wished to get rid of them. btw if you don't like them you can buy items to skip them completely...

Mini-games are extras added into the game.  They should be mildly challenging, but not to the absurd degree the hacking game was in AP. 

-Semper- wrote...

so what?! the checkpoints are placed fairly and often. where would the challenge be if you could just quicksave everywhere and save-load your way through the game? if you need checkpoints to get all the content out of a game instead of playing it again there's simply something wrong with you ;)

You're missing my point.  The option to save/load whenever you want should be there for those of us who wish to make use of it.  If you dislike the idea or find it "too easy" then don't use it.  It's really as simple as that.

As I said, I don't replay games, especially RPGs.  They're too long and too full of mindless busywork to wade through a second or third time.  Being able to load my game where I want and continue from there bypasses whatever content I've already completed so I can try something different right then and there. 

#47
Cimeas

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The usual price of an AAA single player game, whether that be Mass Effect 3, DA2, Medal of Honor, Borderlands 2, Skyrim or Fallout 3(although not BF3/COD/TOR scale of course) is between $23m and $40m. You can add another 20 to include marketing.

I would say that over the past 2 years and 2 months since starting full time development, ME3 has cost $32-36m to develop and EA has spent $25m on marketing.

#48
Brockololly

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While a Kickstarter doesn't make sense given BioWare's position, I really wish we'd be able to see an old school isometric view, Infinity Engine style Dragon Age game with less emphasis on cinematic presentation and expensive VO and more on the actual narrative and consequence and customization. I'd really just like to see some of the big developers have some measure of diversity in the games they make.Why does every game have to be some blockbuster or a free to play, microtransaction laden facebook social game? Where did the middle ground go? I guess thats why I'm incredibly excited for Wasteland 2 and only tepid towards whatever BioWare is doing next.

#49
syllogi

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There's also the Shadowrun Kickstarter project to get excited about, it looks promising.

I miss Westwood and the old Maxis, and am not a fan of EA's business practices, generally, but it's entirely possible that DA:O would not have been finished without Bioware's purchase. I am not thrilled with DA2 or ME3, but I'd rather see Bioware continue to make games, even if they're not catering to me, than see them go out of business. Claiming they could just go indie is probably not realistic.

#50
Guest_BrotherWarth_*

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johnxtreeme wrote...

The usual price of an AAA single player game, whether that be Mass Effect 3, DA2, Medal of Honor, Borderlands 2, Skyrim or Fallout 3(although not BF3/COD/TOR scale of course) is between $23m and $40m. You can add another 20 to include marketing.

I would say that over the past 2 years and 2 months since starting full time development, ME3 has cost $32-36m to develop and EA has spent $25m on marketing.


Where the hell did you get that number? It's completely ridiculous. EA has a marketing department on staff, marketing all of their games. They advertise on just a handful of TV channels and do most of their advertising in print and online.