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whay not make dragon age 3 with kickstarter


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#51
HiroVoid

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DeadPoolMK wrote...

-Semper- wrote...

besides the other minigames this one is the most difficult one, yes. but at least it gives a challenge where challenge is needed! just compare it with other games (like fallout 3) where the minigames are fukkin' easy... after doing them once i was bored to death and wished to get rid of them. btw if you don't like them you can buy items to skip them completely...

Mini-games are extras added into the game.  They should be mildly challenging, but not to the absurd degree the hacking game was in AP. 

If they were too hard for you, then why didn't you level up the skill that made the mini-games easier.  The best way to think about them is they really aren't a mini-game as much as they're a feature in the game you can choose to improve on through both skill and putting points in that area.

They were a great change of pace from the easy as heck mini-games that's in every other game.

#52
HanErlik

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Brockololly wrote...

While a Kickstarter doesn't make sense given BioWare's position, I really wish we'd be able to see an old school isometric view, Infinity Engine style Dragon Age game with less emphasis on cinematic presentation and expensive VO and more on the actual narrative and consequence and customization. I'd really just like to see some of the big developers have some measure of diversity in the games they make.Why does every game have to be some blockbuster or a free to play, microtransaction laden facebook social game? Where did the middle ground go? I guess thats why I'm incredibly excited for Wasteland 2 and only tepid towards whatever BioWare is doing next.

Wouldn't an Obsidian made Dragon Age be wonderful? They did great job in New Vegas and I think Avallone is one of the very few person can save the Dragon Age franchise.

#53
Guest_BrotherWarth_*

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HanErlik wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

While a Kickstarter doesn't make sense given BioWare's position, I really wish we'd be able to see an old school isometric view, Infinity Engine style Dragon Age game with less emphasis on cinematic presentation and expensive VO and more on the actual narrative and consequence and customization. I'd really just like to see some of the big developers have some measure of diversity in the games they make.Why does every game have to be some blockbuster or a free to play, microtransaction laden facebook social game? Where did the middle ground go? I guess thats why I'm incredibly excited for Wasteland 2 and only tepid towards whatever BioWare is doing next.

Wouldn't an Obsidian made Dragon Age be wonderful? They did great job in New Vegas and I think Avallone is one of the very few person can save the Dragon Age franchise.


New Vegas had a ridiculous amount of bugs at launch. And not just annoying bugs, but dozens of game-crashing bugs. Was it a good game if you ignore their lazy QC and extremely slow patches? Sure. But they're a shoddy developer. But let's not forget about KOTOR 2 and Alpha Protocol, 2 more titles where their lazy QC caused severe problems. Obsidian is a decent developer, but even at their worst I'll take Bioware over Obsidian any day.

#54
DeadPoolX

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Brockololly wrote...

While a Kickstarter doesn't make
sense given BioWare's position, I really wish we'd be able to see an old
school isometric view, Infinity Engine style Dragon Age game with less
emphasis on cinematic presentation and expensive VO and more on the
actual narrative and consequence and customization.

Assuming you can zoom out far enough in DA3, you should have something similar to an isometric view.  Personally, I don't feel that sort of view is necessary, but I'm all for options that allow everyone to get what they want.

Brockololly wrote...

Why does every game have to be some blockbuster or a
free to play, microtransaction laden facebook social game?

Because it's profitable to do that.  Remember, game companies are businesses and at the heart of every business is the need to make as much money as possible.  That doesn't mean every decision they make is right (or wrong), but eventually everything comes down to money.

#55
HanErlik

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BrotherWarth wrote...

HanErlik wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

While a Kickstarter doesn't make sense given BioWare's position, I really wish we'd be able to see an old school isometric view, Infinity Engine style Dragon Age game with less emphasis on cinematic presentation and expensive VO and more on the actual narrative and consequence and customization. I'd really just like to see some of the big developers have some measure of diversity in the games they make.Why does every game have to be some blockbuster or a free to play, microtransaction laden facebook social game? Where did the middle ground go? I guess thats why I'm incredibly excited for Wasteland 2 and only tepid towards whatever BioWare is doing next.

Wouldn't an Obsidian made Dragon Age be wonderful? They did great job in New Vegas and I think Avallone is one of the very few person can save the Dragon Age franchise.


New Vegas had a ridiculous amount of bugs at launch. And not just annoying bugs, but dozens of game-crashing bugs. Was it a good game if you ignore their lazy QC and extremely slow patches? Sure. But they're a shoddy developer. But let's not forget about KOTOR 2 and Alpha Protocol, 2 more titles where their lazy QC caused severe problems. Obsidian is a decent developer, but even at their worst I'll take Bioware over Obsidian any day.


I, for one, prefer a buggy but deep and rich RPG to a shiny but poor and dumped one. Bugs are not a real issue to me, bugs can be fixed but no patch can add depth to a dumped down game. Besides, the bug problem of Alpha Protocol and FO:NV were publishers' fault.

#56
Realmzmaster

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HanErlik wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

HanErlik wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

While a Kickstarter doesn't make sense given BioWare's position, I really wish we'd be able to see an old school isometric view, Infinity Engine style Dragon Age game with less emphasis on cinematic presentation and expensive VO and more on the actual narrative and consequence and customization. I'd really just like to see some of the big developers have some measure of diversity in the games they make.Why does every game have to be some blockbuster or a free to play, microtransaction laden facebook social game? Where did the middle ground go? I guess thats why I'm incredibly excited for Wasteland 2 and only tepid towards whatever BioWare is doing next.

Wouldn't an Obsidian made Dragon Age be wonderful? They did great job in New Vegas and I think Avallone is one of the very few person can save the Dragon Age franchise.


New Vegas had a ridiculous amount of bugs at launch. And not just annoying bugs, but dozens of game-crashing bugs. Was it a good game if you ignore their lazy QC and extremely slow patches? Sure. But they're a shoddy developer. But let's not forget about KOTOR 2 and Alpha Protocol, 2 more titles where their lazy QC caused severe problems. Obsidian is a decent developer, but even at their worst I'll take Bioware over Obsidian any day.


I, for one, prefer a buggy but deep and rich RPG to a shiny but poor and dumped one. Bugs are not a real issue to me, bugs can be fixed but no patch can add depth to a dumped down game. Besides, the bug problem of Alpha Protocol and FO:NV were publishers' fault.


What good is a deep and rich RPG if you cannot play it because of game breaking bugs? How will I know it rich and deep if I cannot play it? Yes the bugs can be fixed with patches, but then I have to wait to play the game I just spent money on. Which means the game is basically a coaster until it gets patched. I can at least play a dumped down game that runs correctly. I can then come to the forum and tell the developers what I think of the content of the game rather than complain about the shoddy programming and QA of a buggy deep rich RPG that got released .

#57
Miquel93

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DeadPoolMK wrote...
3. Save Game Options -- This game doesn't let you manually save wherever and whenever you want.  It doesn't even do quicksave, if I recall correctly.  Instead, it's an RPG where only checkpoints and save points are used. 

That's insane.  RPGs are long games, especially when decisions are involved.  I rarely replay games, so I have no intention of replaying the entire game simply to get a different result.  I expect to save the game and load it to try out different choices.  Plus, without the ability to save, it stifles exploration.  I won't try new and different approaches if dying means having to redo the last 30 minutes of gameplay. 

No, the lack of a manual save doesn't make the game more challenging, it simply makes it more frustrating.  The ability to save should be there.  If someone doesn't want it, then they can simply avoid using it. 

There's no reason to remove usability options under the guise of "making it challenging."  That's something to do with gameplay itself, not disabling a feature of the hardware.

4. Dialogue -- You have a very limited window in which to respond to people when in a discussion.  Some people might like this, but I certainly don't.

I want to think over what they said and respond carefully.  I don't have time to do that if I have to pick a choice immediately. 

Yeah, some people might say it's more realistic, but so would limiting the player to one life, where if they die, there's no continuing on.  In other words, realism often takes a backseat to gameplay.  This is, after all, a game, which is intended to be entertaining.  If I want the constraints of real life, I don't need to buy a game.

About this two complains... I think than more than failures, were great design desicions.

The use of checkpoints wasn't to make the game more challenging, but to make you live with the choices you make without going back. But even then, you could save any checkpoint in the game anytime, and replay it whenever you want. So, they combined the two systems to make their design decision work the better they could. I think it works fine, I don't know what people complains about it (yes, you can't save anytime you want, but every checkpoint can be saved, so no big deal. Especially when the missions are at best 30 minutes long). I just love the fact of being forced of carry on my decisions, and deal with the consequences (and in this game, can be big).

And the dialog system, I admit I'm in love with it. The time limit is used precisely to think fast your decisions, and in a game with a heavy effort to give us an ambiguous morality of things and tough choices, that makes even harder to make the decision. And the great thing is, when you have to chose, because of the time limit, you never feel that you made the right choice, your allways thinking: what if...?
I wouldn't say is important the fact that is more realistic or not, but is satisfiying as hell (for me, at least), and do what pretends (make you doubt, and think fast) great.

But well, with Alpha Protocol I might be the less objective person in Earth. I simply love it. It would be probably in my top 10 best CRPG of all time. (yes, of all time, how crazy is that).

#58
wsandista

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HanErlik wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

HanErlik wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

While a Kickstarter doesn't make sense given BioWare's position, I really wish we'd be able to see an old school isometric view, Infinity Engine style Dragon Age game with less emphasis on cinematic presentation and expensive VO and more on the actual narrative and consequence and customization. I'd really just like to see some of the big developers have some measure of diversity in the games they make.Why does every game have to be some blockbuster or a free to play, microtransaction laden facebook social game? Where did the middle ground go? I guess thats why I'm incredibly excited for Wasteland 2 and only tepid towards whatever BioWare is doing next.

Wouldn't an Obsidian made Dragon Age be wonderful? They did great job in New Vegas and I think Avallone is one of the very few person can save the Dragon Age franchise.


New Vegas had a ridiculous amount of bugs at launch. And not just annoying bugs, but dozens of game-crashing bugs. Was it a good game if you ignore their lazy QC and extremely slow patches? Sure. But they're a shoddy developer. But let's not forget about KOTOR 2 and Alpha Protocol, 2 more titles where their lazy QC caused severe problems. Obsidian is a decent developer, but even at their worst I'll take Bioware over Obsidian any day.


I, for one, prefer a buggy but deep and rich RPG to a shiny but poor and dumped one. Bugs are not a real issue to me, bugs can be fixed but no patch can add depth to a dumped down game. Besides, the bug problem of Alpha Protocol and FO:NV were publishers' fault.


I don't see how "deep and rich" exactly means that you have to deal with a lot of bugs, they're not mutually exclusive as I understand. Have you ever played NWN2:SoZ? In the initial release it had several major bugs, not to mention it made playing the OC or MotB impossible, and I had to wait a loooong time for it to be resolved. That being said critism of Obsidian for bugs in F:NV have to be applied to EVERY Bethesda game seing as they also have them. Obsidian is a good developer(IMO), but I think that they need to focus on creating their own IP instead making titles for other companies IP.

#59
DeadPoolX

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Miquel93 wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...
3. Save Game Options -- This game doesn't let you manually save wherever and whenever you want.  It doesn't even do quicksave, if I recall correctly.  Instead, it's an RPG where only checkpoints and save points are used. 

That's insane.  RPGs are long games, especially when decisions are involved.  I rarely replay games, so I have no intention of replaying the entire game simply to get a different result.  I expect to save the game and load it to try out different choices.  Plus, without the ability to save, it stifles exploration.  I won't try new and different approaches if dying means having to redo the last 30 minutes of gameplay. 

No, the lack of a manual save doesn't make the game more challenging, it simply makes it more frustrating.  The ability to save should be there.  If someone doesn't want it, then they can simply avoid using it. 

There's no reason to remove usability options under the guise of "making it challenging."  That's something to do with gameplay itself, not disabling a feature of the hardware.

4. Dialogue -- You have a very limited window in which to respond to people when in a discussion.  Some people might like this, but I certainly don't.

I want to think over what they said and respond carefully.  I don't have time to do that if I have to pick a choice immediately. 

Yeah, some people might say it's more realistic, but so would limiting the player to one life, where if they die, there's no continuing on.  In other words, realism often takes a backseat to gameplay.  This is, after all, a game, which is intended to be entertaining.  If I want the constraints of real life, I don't need to buy a game.

About this two complains... I think than more than failures, were great design desicions.

The use of checkpoints wasn't to make the game more challenging, but to make you live with the choices you make without going back. But even then, you could save any checkpoint in the game anytime, and replay it whenever you want. So, they combined the two systems to make their design decision work the better they could. I think it works fine, I don't know what people complains about it (yes, you can't save anytime you want, but every checkpoint can be saved, so no big deal. Especially when the missions are at best 30 minutes long). I just love the fact of being forced of carry on my decisions, and deal with the consequences (and in this game, can be big).

And the dialog system, I admit I'm in love with it. The time limit is used precisely to think fast your decisions, and in a game with a heavy effort to give us an ambiguous morality of things and tough choices, that makes even harder to make the decision. And the great thing is, when you have to chose, because of the time limit, you never feel that you made the right choice, your allways thinking: what if...?
I wouldn't say is important the fact that is more realistic or not, but is satisfiying as hell (for me, at least), and do what pretends (make you doubt, and think fast) great.

But well, with Alpha Protocol I might be the less objective person in Earth. I simply love it. It would be probably in my top 10 best CRPG of all time. (yes, of all time, how crazy is that).


Well, you and I obviously disagree on these points.  Since you like AP so much, there's really no way for me to convey myself properly.  Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you enjoyed AP.  I didn't, but to each their own.

BTW, it's nice to see someone online who can have a difference of opinion without resorting to flaming the other person or acting like a troll.  I'm not being sarcastic here.  I like that you commented in a polite and thoughtful manner.  That's unusual online, but very much appreciated. :)

Modifié par DeadPoolMK, 22 avril 2012 - 09:24 .


#60
TheShadowWolf911

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why not kickstarter for certain features in the game?

#61
Sylvius the Mad

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TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

why not kickstarter for certain features in the game?

That's not a terrible idea.  Whenever we ask for a toggle (like being able to turn off the PC's voice) or for a platform-specific feature, that's something with a significant development cost and an undefined return.  Fan-funding would solve the return problem.

#62
Fisto The Sexbot

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addiction21 wrote...

adi4444 wrote...

Filament wrote...

I'd like an ancillary product in the form of a Journeys 2 tablet RPG, but as I understand it, kickstarter is for companies that need a kickstart... EA could fund this just fine.


EA will dumb down evry game to make it appeal for the masses just like they did with dragon age origin 


Just like Neverwinter was dumbed down from BG? Just like KotOR was dumbed down? Just like Jade Empire? OMG A SONIC THE HEDGEHOG RPG ON A HANDHELD!!!!


Wait that was long before EA ever came in the picture.


It could not have anything to do with it being a common practices for BioWare to "dumbdown the games"

Let me get the rest of the simple buzzword rhetoric out the way. Streamlined, sell out, corporate shills, console kiddy crowd, CoD crowd, old school, hardcore, real fans.... did I miss anything?


Those games may have been more streamlined compared to BG, but they were nothing close to being as bad and dumbed down as Dragon Age 2. Jade Empire was the exception but that was made by Laidlaw.

Neverwinter Nights also came with a toolset that still enables the release of quality modules even today.

#63
Fisto The Sexbot

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BrotherWarth wrote...

HanErlik wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

While a Kickstarter doesn't make sense given BioWare's position, I really wish we'd be able to see an old school isometric view, Infinity Engine style Dragon Age game with less emphasis on cinematic presentation and expensive VO and more on the actual narrative and consequence and customization. I'd really just like to see some of the big developers have some measure of diversity in the games they make.Why does every game have to be some blockbuster or a free to play, microtransaction laden facebook social game? Where did the middle ground go? I guess thats why I'm incredibly excited for Wasteland 2 and only tepid towards whatever BioWare is doing next.

Wouldn't an Obsidian made Dragon Age be wonderful? They did great job in New Vegas and I think Avallone is one of the very few person can save the Dragon Age franchise.


New Vegas had a ridiculous amount of bugs at launch. And not just annoying bugs, but dozens of game-crashing bugs. Was it a good game if you ignore their lazy QC and extremely slow patches? Sure. But they're a shoddy developer. But let's not forget about KOTOR 2 and Alpha Protocol, 2 more titles where their lazy QC caused severe problems. Obsidian is a decent developer, but even at their worst I'll take Bioware over Obsidian any day.


New Vegas > modern BioWare. Fairly complex RPG vs. polished turd (Dragon Age 2)? I'll take everything that's not called Dragon Age 2 any day.

#64
Fisto The Sexbot

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Brockololly wrote...

While a Kickstarter doesn't make sense given BioWare's position, I really wish we'd be able to see an old school isometric view, Infinity Engine style Dragon Age game with less emphasis on cinematic presentation and expensive VO and more on the actual narrative and consequence and customization. I'd really just like to see some of the big developers have some measure of diversity in the games they make.Why does every game have to be some blockbuster or a free to play, microtransaction laden facebook social game? Where did the middle ground go? I guess thats why I'm incredibly excited for Wasteland 2 and only tepid towards whatever BioWare is doing next.


Same here. If the WRPG genre gets developers like brian fargo back who has already promised that he's gonna listen to fan feedback multiple times, while BioWare has done nothing other than say "We never asked for your input", then people that want an RPG should know better where to take their business.

I'd rather get a fan-funded Kickstarter 2 million dollar project from BioWare than Dragon Age 2, and if not, well...

#65
wsandista

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Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

HanErlik wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

While a Kickstarter doesn't make sense given BioWare's position, I really wish we'd be able to see an old school isometric view, Infinity Engine style Dragon Age game with less emphasis on cinematic presentation and expensive VO and more on the actual narrative and consequence and customization. I'd really just like to see some of the big developers have some measure of diversity in the games they make.Why does every game have to be some blockbuster or a free to play, microtransaction laden facebook social game? Where did the middle ground go? I guess thats why I'm incredibly excited for Wasteland 2 and only tepid towards whatever BioWare is doing next.

Wouldn't an Obsidian made Dragon Age be wonderful? They did great job in New Vegas and I think Avallone is one of the very few person can save the Dragon Age franchise.


New Vegas had a ridiculous amount of bugs at launch. And not just annoying bugs, but dozens of game-crashing bugs. Was it a good game if you ignore their lazy QC and extremely slow patches? Sure. But they're a shoddy developer. But let's not forget about KOTOR 2 and Alpha Protocol, 2 more titles where their lazy QC caused severe problems. Obsidian is a decent developer, but even at their worst I'll take Bioware over Obsidian any day.


New Vegas > modern BioWare. Fairly complex RPG vs. polished turd (Dragon Age 2)? I'll take everything that's not called Dragon Age 2 any day.


Complexity in RPGs, you are insane my friend they need to be streamlined so 5-year olds can play them. Next you'll be asking for actual role-playing in RPGs, how can I play a game if I have to use my imagination.

#66
TheShadowWolf911

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indeed, that would just be silly!

its not like RPGs were for a target audience of those who actually use their minds instead of twitchy fingers!

#67
FieryDove

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(Waves white flag)

Let's just go all the way. What is an RPG?

/thread lock

#68
Sutekh

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FieryDove wrote...

(Waves white flag)

Let's just go all the way. What is an RPG?

An RPG:

Image IPB

Does that answer your question? :P

#69
FieryDove

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Sutekh wrote...

Does that answer your question? :P


No the salad on head interfere's with my player agency. If iconic salad must stand I not only need but demand Italian dressing.

#70
Sutekh

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FieryDove wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

Does that answer your question? :P


No the salad on head interfere's with my player agency. If iconic salad must stand I not only need but demand Italian dressing.

What  is it with you people and Italian dressing? It's not the 80's anymore. With the new technology, we can have Caesar now.

I'll give you the ammunitions suffer from a bit of railroading, and the resulting explosion is a bit overdone, though.

#71
FieryDove

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Sutekh wrote...

What  is it with you people and Italian dressing? It's not the 80's anymore. With the new technology, we can have Caesar now.

I'll give you the ammunitions suffer from a bit of railroading, and the resulting explosion is a bit overdone, though.


In your example A it clearly shows that is NOT a caesar salad. In fact if you touch that salad at all with your fingers you *will* twitch.  Therefore...I suggest this as a compromise:


Image IPB

There, no dressing required at all. Ends all debates and everyone is happy. (except frogs)