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Is Bioware's filtering of feedback too unbalanced?


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#126
bEVEsthda

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Maria Caliban wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

I have this creeping feeling that Bioware might have been listening more to feedback from fans who already like DA2, than investigating why those who disliked DA2 with such vehemence, did so. If that is the case, the only thing that DA3 will accomplish is that the DA2-fans will get a better, more polished game. Will that sell?

They're listening to people who like the game but would like to see improvements as opposed to those who dislike the game? That's a sound strategy.


Why would that be a sound strategy? I don't see the logic. It would be logical, if DA2 was the first game in a new franchise, and its market performance had been such, that it's clear it has a future. But nothing of that is true for DA2.

DA2 breaks one of the premier, golden rules of marketing: Don't change the contents under a label with the intention to appeal to a new market group. The fact that the DA label was Bioware's most successful ever, makes it just a bigger folly. Then, when this results in just the kind of disaster that could/should have been expected, why is it a sound strategy to persist?


BioWare develops the games it wants to develop and EA will pay it to develop. High level decisions are not something they listen to the fans on nor should they. A game developer sinks or swims on its own ideas and skills, not polling the fanbase for features. 


This is a business. As I understood it when D.G explained it: Bioware makes the game they "want"  at every boss level, all the way up to the top. So the game they "want" to make is a business decision (as it should be). Where this game was envisioned, we don't know. Hopefully the vision comes from a group of Bioware developers, without external indoctrination. This, unfortunately, I do not believe in.
And since it is a business decision, it's absolutely vital to understand the market. ...And that, of course, is the really hard part.

But hard or not, name one game, that has been envisioned inside EA, that has been successful? And even if you find one (not one purchased), my point still holds: EA are not good at understanding their markets. Whatever tools they're employing, are failing them. So why not listen to the feedback from those who represent the reason DA2 failed? What is there to lose?  Those who liked DA2 can certainly not help them! And why not use the previous success as a starting point?

They are not using their success as a starting point. They are trying to improve on their failure. But they are, hopefully, listening to feedback, and, again hopefully, Posted Image they will manage to unbreak the voiced protagonist and dialog wheel. Posted Image

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 16 avril 2012 - 05:54 .


#127
bEVEsthda

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AlexJK wrote...
Sales figures didn't, and can't, prove anything of the sort. The difference could be due to any combination of:
- marketing
- price
- box art
- other games released at the same time
- genre of game
- reviews
- quality of game
- content of game

And so on.


Sales figures tell a great deal. They're actually readable. You can for instance see that most copies of DA2 sold, where sold due to early expectations and reputation of DA:O. After that, it's dead. And the reason there is no DA2:ultimate, with DLC content, is that retailers don't want to have anything to do with anything DA2. That not clear enough to you?

It will be quite interesting to see how Bioware/EA intends to market DA3.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 16 avril 2012 - 06:17 .


#128
Thor Rand Al

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bEVEsthda wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

I have this creeping feeling that Bioware might have been listening more to feedback from fans who already like DA2, than investigating why those who disliked DA2 with such vehemence, did so. If that is the case, the only thing that DA3 will accomplish is that the DA2-fans will get a better, more polished game. Will that sell?

They're listening to people who like the game but would like to see improvements as opposed to those who dislike the game? That's a sound strategy.


Why would that be a sound strategy? I don't see the logic. It would be logical, if DA2 was the first game in a new franchise, and its market performance had been such, that it's clear it has a future. But nothing of that is true for DA2.

I hate saying somethin that I know the devs have said without giving proof/quote's but with so many forums and stuff it's hard to remember where u saw it at. But to get to the point, the devs have said that they liked the direction DA2 went, yes there was flaws and they are listening to our feedback, they have also said there was some things in Origins that they liked.  They are not going to go back but are moving forward.

Mark Darrah
"I am proud of what DA2 accomplished in several areas. It is certainly not without flaws.
We have things to learn from BOTH Dragon Age games as well as other titles."
"Going foreward, we will try to learn from both titles. They both have good aspects.
Will this please everyone? I doubt it. But hopefully, most people will see things that they can love."
http://social.biowar.../index/10245444

#129
slashthedragon

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bEVEsthda wrote...

AlexJK wrote...
Sales figures didn't, and can't, prove anything of the sort. The difference could be due to any combination of:
- marketing
- price
- box art
- other games released at the same time
- genre of game
- reviews
- quality of game
- content of game

And so on.


Sales figures tell a great deal. They're actually readable. You can for instance see that most copies of DA2 sold, where sold due to early expectations and reputation of DA:O. After that, it's dead. And the reason there is no DA2:ultimate, with DLC content, is that retailers don't want to have anything to do with anything DA2. That not clear enough to you?

It will be quite interesting to see how Bioware/EA intends to market DA3.


Didn't Amazon.com offer to take the game back and refund your money?  Or is that just with ME3?

#130
Wozearly

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Maria Caliban wrote...

No one said you couldn't be involved in the discussion. The issue is whether BioWare listens to you and weighs your feedback as much as that of someone who likes the voiced protagonist.


I hear what you're saying, but its only one way of looking at it. What matters most is the method and reason behind making decisions.

What you're proposing casts Bioware in the role of game "artists". The decisions are essentially creative ones about what the artist wants to do, and other people's views are largely irrelevant provided that what they do sells well enough to cover costs (including minimum required profit).

Higher weighting will naturally be given to people who agree with the decision - partly ego, partly because it provides evidence that the decisions will translate into acceptable sales. For anyone who doesn't like the game and doesn't buy it because of the decisions, that's fine. After all, its art.

To persuade an artist's decision-making process to change, it either needs to become clear that it will result in a failure to cover costs (ie, mass rejection forces reality to sink in, artistic tantrums about philistines, but ultimately an acceptance that food on the table is more important), or the artist(s) need to be personally persuaded by the merits of a different decision that can appeal equally to them (ie, emotional persuasion, not with logical reasoning), or an appeal to every artist's inner desire for congratulation and appreciation - which can result in some unexpected "Well, you asked for this, so actually I thought I'd do it for you".

Whist creative individuals often have an element of this to them, and they may carry a disproportionate power over decision-making, its relatively rare for a company to make decisions in this way.

The opposite end of the spectrum casts Bioware in the role of a game "corporation". In this instance, the aim of decision-making is to increase profitability, which means maximising short-term (and arguably long-term) sales. In this instance, weighting is defined by whether a decision will change someone's behaviour.

Assuming Bioware has perfect information on that, then in principle decision-making is blind to whether someone is a current customer or not for products with a short lifecycle, such as games - everyone is a potential customer for the new product.

So if a large group of potential customers really value a voiced protagonist, and the absence of it will result in them not buying the game, that will add significant weight to the decision. Note that this isn't specifically because of volume. A larger proportion could prefer a silent protagonist, but if they will still buy a game with a voiced protagonist then their preferences carry less weight as their behaviour will be unchanged. In principle, you could make a series of decisions that caused many potential customers some level of annoyance, but which resulted in a lot more people buying the game (and screw the fans, etc.)

In reality, its not that clear cut. Its partly an advertising problem and partly a segmentation problem. If you have non-customers who would have bought your product if they knew enough about it, that can be solved by advertising (up to the point where additional advertising spend fails to generate enough sales to cover its expenses).

The bigger problem is customers who don't buy your product because it fails to appeal. This may be because that segment of similar-minded customers value a combination of qualities which is absent in your product, but were you to provide them, you would face a dramatic drop in sales amongst your existing customers from a different segment who value different things. In reality, the only way to address this and appeal to multiple segments is to a) understand them, and B) create different products and target them accordingly. 

Some companies can get away with creating something that is relatively innoffensive to all segments, but that also tends to make it relatively unattractive. In a market with open competition, they'll almost certainly suffer against rivals who are more focused on specific segments, so you only tend to see this when markets are distorted in some way (e.g. lack of competition, or one company in control of distribution) or when a company produces a relatively generic product at such large volumes that they can afford to maintain a far lower price point through economies of scale. This gives them the opportunity to offer a different kind of value for money - cheap n' cheerful, versus quality and priced accordingly.

To persuade a corporate decision-maker presumes that they don't have perfect information, and so will give greater weighting to decisions where its clear it will impact purchase decisions and/or where a large volume of feedback proposes a similar change. They will also tend to give a higher weighting to existing customers, because its a more stable and well-understood market segment, and because significant gains would need to be made in sales from new customers to justify the expense and risk of affecting the existing customer base.

So...erm...the screw the fans version is actually the one which listens more closely to fan feedback. Remember that the next time you see someone rant about how Bioware / EA are only interested in profit. ;)


Both extremes have strengths and flaws, and the reality is probably a fusion of both models and lots more people who work for Bioware and sit somewhere in between.

Influential creative people - Mark Darrah, David Gaider, Mike Laidlaw, may need to be influenced by more emotional persuasion, (ie. not ranting, not producing vast lists of statistics, not stamping on their artistic beliefs)...if indeed they allow themselves to be influenced at all by feedback. They may be willing to uphold their ideas, or ideas they are championing from feedback, irrespective of what statistics Corporate decision-makers wave at them.

Others will be more inclined to listen to the more rational, logic-driven arguments and genuine (ie, non ranty) feedback that shows how important different decisions are, and therefore their impact on the game's sales and fan base. They may be willing to stand their ground in defiance of a creative individual's strongly-held belief that they know what's best.

Both sides can persuade the other, both can champion or ignore feedback from specific players. The only consistent reccomendation is not to be ranty, as all it'll do is ensure your viewpoint is swiftly dismissed by all concerned. ;)

Modifié par Wozearly, 16 avril 2012 - 07:54 .


#131
Dakota Strider

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Thor Rand Al wrote...

I hate saying somethin that I know the devs have said without giving proof/quote's but with so many forums and stuff it's hard to remember where u saw it at. But to get to the point, the devs have said that they liked the direction DA2 went, yes there was flaws and they are listening to our feedback, they have also said there was some things in Origins that they liked.  They are not going to go back but are moving forward.

Mark Darrah
"I am proud of what DA2 accomplished in several areas. It is certainly not without flaws.
We have things to learn from BOTH Dragon Age games as well as other titles."
"Going foreward, we will try to learn from both titles. They both have good aspects.
Will this please everyone? I doubt it. But hopefully, most people will see things that they can love."
http://social.biowar.../index/10245444


Considering that in many ways, DA2 could be considered a step backwards in the overall perspective, going back to DAO style, would be considered a forward step.  

#132
Thor Rand Al

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Dakota Strider wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

I hate saying somethin that I know the devs have said without giving proof/quote's but with so many forums and stuff it's hard to remember where u saw it at. But to get to the point, the devs have said that they liked the direction DA2 went, yes there was flaws and they are listening to our feedback, they have also said there was some things in Origins that they liked.  They are not going to go back but are moving forward.

Mark Darrah
"I am proud of what DA2 accomplished in several areas. It is certainly not without flaws.
We have things to learn from BOTH Dragon Age games as well as other titles."
"Going foreward, we will try to learn from both titles. They both have good aspects.
Will this please everyone? I doubt it. But hopefully, most people will see things that they can love."
http://social.biowar.../index/10245444


Considering that in many ways, DA2 could be considered a step backwards in the overall perspective, going back to DAO style, would be considered a forward step.  

Ya but it's clearly been said they won't be goin bk to Origins style.  The word going forward is used a lot with the devs.

#133
seraphymon

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Thor Rand Al wrote...
I hate saying somethin that I know the devs have said without giving proof/quote's but with so many forums and stuff it's hard to remember where u saw it at. But to get to the point, the devs have said that they liked the direction DA2 went, yes there was flaws and they are listening to our feedback, they have also said there was some things in Origins that they liked.  They are not going to go back but are moving forward.

Mark Darrah
"I am proud of what DA2 accomplished in several areas. It is certainly not without flaws.
We have things to learn from BOTH Dragon Age games as well as other titles."
"Going foreward, we will try to learn from both titles. They both have good aspects.
Will this please everyone? I doubt it. But hopefully, most people will see things that they can love."
http://social.biowar.../index/10245444


No doubt some feel that, especially  ML, but i seriously doubt all Bioware does. They are always required to say stuff like that. Hard to tell wether lies or not, as they say oh this game  had some stuff right and wrong. But they say that about almost any game but never really go into too much detail. If i worked on something i didnt like, or thought was a failure creatively wise would say so full heartily, unless of course under obligation not to, which Bioware is under.

#134
seraphymon

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Thor Rand Al wrote...
Ya but it's clearly been said they won't be goin bk to Origins style.  The word going forward is used a lot with the devs.


Whats ironic is the way their talks are, they are still hanging around most of DA2 implements. So if its more on DA2, then that is still not going forward. and putting stuff back in that was taken out, is course going back, but is actually a step forward. Since taking that stuff out in the first place was a step backwards.

#135
Thor Rand Al

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seraphymon wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...
I hate saying somethin that I know the devs have said without giving proof/quote's but with so many forums and stuff it's hard to remember where u saw it at. But to get to the point, the devs have said that they liked the direction DA2 went, yes there was flaws and they are listening to our feedback, they have also said there was some things in Origins that they liked.  They are not going to go back but are moving forward.

Mark Darrah
"I am proud of what DA2 accomplished in several areas. It is certainly not without flaws.
We have things to learn from BOTH Dragon Age games as well as other titles."
"Going foreward, we will try to learn from both titles. They both have good aspects.
Will this please everyone? I doubt it. But hopefully, most people will see things that they can love."
http://social.biowar.../index/10245444


No doubt some feel that, especially  ML, but i seriously doubt all Bioware does. They are always required to say stuff like that. Hard to tell wether lies or not, as they say oh this game  had some stuff right and wrong. But they say that about almost any game but never really go into too much detail. If i worked on something i didnt like, or thought was a failure creatively wise would say so full heartily, unless of course under obligation not to, which Bioware is under.


Each dev that I've seen so far have said that DA2 was a good game but it did have flaws.  Laidlaw has said this, Darrah as stated in my previous post has said that, I can't remember what Gaider has said but they admit there was flaws but they are also proud of what they did accomplish.  I seriously doubt that's a lie.  Especially when they come right out and say "It is certainly not without flaws." 
The game was not a failure as much as some people wished it was, heck if you really want proff that DA2 was not a failure look on Tumblr and search for Hawke and Dragon Age 2.  There's constantly stuff being either uploaded or talked about.  That doesn't say failure to me because those posts are active with positive feed.
I'm not tryin to start anything but I honestly believe that some people have a hard time letting go of Origins (they can't and won't accept) that they won't be happy with anything that DA comes out with unless they do go back to that way and do bring back the Warden.  That's not going to happen just like as much as I'd love it to, it won't happen for Hawke either.

#136
Thor Rand Al

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seraphymon wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...
Ya but it's clearly been said they won't be goin bk to Origins style.  The word going forward is used a lot with the devs.


Whats ironic is the way their talks are, they are still hanging around most of DA2 implements. So if its more on DA2, then that is still not going forward. and putting stuff back in that was taken out, is course going back, but is actually a step forward. Since taking that stuff out in the first place was a step backwards.

Going forward means NOT going back to Origins style, that's what a lot of people want and when you see the devs make that comment about going forward they are commenting about certain comments from some who want the Origins style back.

#137
Aly666

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bEVEsthda wrote...

 
I try to be positive about what was hinted at PAX, and keep a good mood about DA3. But:..
Excuse me, I know that I have warned about this many times before. I don't want to come on as nagging or repetitive. Still, I also got disturbing vibes from PAX. I have this creeping feeling that Bioware might have been listening more to feedback from fans who already like DA2, than investigating why those who disliked DA2 with such vehemence, did so. If that is the case, the only thing that DA3 will accomplish is that the DA2-fans will get a better, more polished game. Will that sell?



Nothing wrong with dragon age 2... The fighting is great the game is just poorly constructed to me atleast. Yes origins had a great story , amazing map , awesome companions , and awesome battles. That doesn't mean dragon age 2 sucked...? Cause i bet you played more then once like everyone else. I too have great expectations for the new upcoming dragon age. Bioware just has to listen to us thats it if we've been here through the beginning (BIOWAREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE) don't you think we know whats wrong and how things could be improved like i said. Dage 2 could of been fixed with an expansion but oh well 

#138
Thor Rand Al

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No offense but why do I get the feeling that if the devs, each one came on here and said We are not going back to Dragon Age: Origins style, (which they've basically done as I quoted earlier) that even then people would not accept it and find some way to wiggle an arguement around those words to what they want them to mean??

#139
seraphymon

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Thor Rand Al wrote...
Each dev that I've seen so far have said that DA2 was a good game but it did have flaws.  Laidlaw has said this, Darrah as stated in my previous post has said that, I can't remember what Gaider has said but they admit there was flaws but they are also proud of what they did accomplish.  I seriously doubt that's a lie.  Especially when they come right out and say "It is certainly not without flaws." 
The game was not a failure as much as some people wished it was, heck if you really want proff that DA2 was not a failure look on Tumblr and search for Hawke and Dragon Age 2.  There's constantly stuff being either uploaded or talked about.  That doesn't say failure to me because those posts are active with positive feed.
I'm not tryin to start anything but I honestly believe that some people have a hard time letting go of Origins (they can't and won't accept) that they won't be happy with anything that DA comes out with unless they do go back to that way and do bring back the Warden.  That's not going to happen just like as much as I'd love it to, it won't happen for Hawke either.



Thing is they are requireed to say so. its hard to take it to heart, when they all say the same note. To me ML is the only one i believe that truly likes the way it went based on the detail he goes in with explaining, and how he has felt  towards origins, its a bunch of other stuff throught the years, even dating back to before DA2. Of course no doubt EA coulda been a big part of it as well, and perhaps they are proud of what they accomplished given the time restiant and budget, but thats as far ass im willing to believe. They will say without flaws since they have to give something. but they say the same of origins, (which is true) but its gonna be said the same way about any game, as none is ever perfect. Its PR speak. Just because stuff is talked about doesnt mean its a success as well, not when something like DA2 was. Perhaps if it was a standalone game, and or not from bioware the negativity wouldnt be as high, but it was a sequel from Bioware, but even then now with the ME3 backlash, it kinda reignites the flame, along with now talks about DA3. and I believe that is a misconception of people just wanting origins. I dont speak for anyone, but for me its not wanting origins. Its wanting a good game, that took the time it neededd to be a good game, not fix what wasnt broken, and not strip out what made origins a great game. As for the protag, ive always said the same thing. I dont mind a new protag, as long as the previous is completely done. For some people  their warden is, but not mine or the ones that went through the mirror with Morrigan, hinting at a return. Hawke i could care less about and dont care to see him again, but i do sympathize with those that liked him and do, because like the wardens, his story wasnt finished as well.

Thor Rand Al wrote...
Going forward means NOT going back to Origins style, that's what a lot of people want and when you see the devs make that comment about going forward they are commenting about certain comments from some who want the Origins style back.


No again another misconception, its not just about going back to origins, its about already taking step back with DA2, and going back and then going forward. LIke  at a juncition, tkaing the wrong one, requires backtracking in order to actually move forward. Actually improving from Origins, instead of just giving us a DA2 V2. or trying to improve from that standpoint.

because i agree with the OP in this thread, the balance seems kinda unfair so far, with just more praising of DA2, with just throwing a bone to origin fans, even though it was the superior game.

#140
Mmw04014

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Thor Rand Al wrote...
Going forward means NOT going back to Origins style, that's what a lot of people want and when you see the devs make that comment about going forward they are commenting about certain comments from some who want the Origins style back.


They need to find a middle ground between these two games. I don't want DA2, the improved version just like a lot of people don't want Origins, the improved version. The only difference is that right now it feels like it will be DA2, the improved version, despite it being the less successful model.

Modifié par Mmw04014, 17 avril 2012 - 12:25 .


#141
Melca36

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Thor Rand Al wrote...

seraphymon wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...
Ya but it's clearly been said they won't be goin bk to Origins style.  The word going forward is used a lot with the devs.


Whats ironic is the way their talks are, they are still hanging around most of DA2 implements. So if its more on DA2, then that is still not going forward. and putting stuff back in that was taken out, is course going back, but is actually a step forward. Since taking that stuff out in the first place was a step backwards.

Going forward means NOT going back to Origins style, that's what a lot of people want and when you see the devs make that comment about going forward they are commenting about certain comments from some who want the Origins style back.



The developers have acknowledged mistakes with the game. They never said they were going back to Origins but would bring back elements from Origins that they removed.

They also said they were keeping what worked in DA:2

#142
Thor Rand Al

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Melca36 wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

seraphymon wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...
Ya but it's clearly been said they won't be goin bk to Origins style.  The word going forward is used a lot with the devs.


Whats ironic is the way their talks are, they are still hanging around most of DA2 implements. So if its more on DA2, then that is still not going forward. and putting stuff back in that was taken out, is course going back, but is actually a step forward. Since taking that stuff out in the first place was a step backwards.

Going forward means NOT going back to Origins style, that's what a lot of people want and when you see the devs make that comment about going forward they are commenting about certain comments from some who want the Origins style back.



The developers have acknowledged mistakes with the game. They never said they were going back to Origins but would bring back elements from Origins that they removed.

They also said they were keeping what worked in DA:2

^^^^^^ This, what Melca says!!! Exactly

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 17 avril 2012 - 12:45 .


#143
Thor Rand Al

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Mmw04014 wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...
Going forward means NOT going back to Origins style, that's what a lot of people want and when you see the devs make that comment about going forward they are commenting about certain comments from some who want the Origins style back.


They need to find a middle ground between these two games. I don't want DA2, the improved version just like a lot of people don't want Origins, the improved version. The only difference is that right now it feels like it will be DA2, the improved version, despite it being the less successful model.

Middle ground is taking what people liked about both games and putting them into the next with whatever else they got planned.

#144
Mmw04014

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Thor Rand Al wrote...

Mmw04014 wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...
Going forward means NOT going back to Origins style, that's what a lot of people want and when you see the devs make that comment about going forward they are commenting about certain comments from some who want the Origins style back.


They need to find a middle ground between these two games. I don't want DA2, the improved version just like a lot of people don't want Origins, the improved version. The only difference is that right now it feels like it will be DA2, the improved version, despite it being the less successful model.

Middle ground is taking what people liked about both games and putting them into the next with whatever else they got planned.


Then we agree. Alienating fans of DA2 isn't going to do them any favors, but disregarding the wishes of the Origin's fans is only going to make Bioware look even worse. We'll see if they actually manage to do that though.

I'm actually more excited about what they are going to reveal than the actual game at this point. I wanna see if they truly can reconcile these two games.

#145
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*

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@Mmw04014 what I read in posts of BW as I understand it they are developping DA3 and they are taking things from DAO and DA2 to create the next DA game.

So this means things stay as they are as in DA2 and there are things that will come back that were done in DAO.

One thing I know for sure because it was stated was "showing affection to your LI when you want it to". Just like you could when you romanced Alistair in DAO. And there are more things but they do not make it official but are looking at it how they can implement it.

#146
Mmw04014

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sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

@Mmw04014 what I read in posts of BW as I understand it they are developping DA3 and they are taking things from DAO and DA2 to create the next DA game.

So this means things stay as they are as in DA2 and there are things that will come back that were done in DAO.

One thing I know for sure because it was stated was "showing affection to your LI when you want it to". Just like you could when you romanced Alistair in DAO. And there are more things but they do not make it official but are looking at it how they can implement it.


I'm taking the "I'll believe it when I see it" approach. Yes, these are things they've said but Bioware has been saying a lot of things lately. The Mass Effect team has been blatantly lying for a while now and even though it's a different team, they are still under the Bioware banner. So all these things they are saying sound good and all, but until I see it implemented, I won't believe it.

Not that I'm writing DA3 off or being a total Debbie Downer, but I just need to see it to believe it. I am very happy with Bioware stance on not talking about something without being able to show it though. We can move past abstracts and actually get into it.

#147
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Melca36 wrote...
They also said they were keeping what worked in DA:2

Assuming anything worked in DA2.

Middle ground is taking what people liked about both games and putting them into the next with whatever else they got planned.

2+2=4, 2+2=6, middel ground betweet two is 2+2=5, it doesnt't mean it's correct.
If you mix one barrel of honey and one barrel of dirt you'll get two barrels of dirt.

#148
ianvillan

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My main problem is that they got rid of almost everything about Origins and put all new ideas in to DA2, so in there opinion there must of been nothing that was any good about Origins.

You can even see this in the interviews they did before DA2 came out, how they would say How Origins was a bad game and they changed up DA2 to be better all around.

So how can they decide what was good about Origins when they never liked any of it in the first place, For DA3 we will get 90% Dragon Age 2 and 5% skyrim with 5% Origins but they will just talk more about the Origins content they are adding.

#149
SeanMurphy2

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Sometimes I still feel angry about it.

I am replaying Origins now. I am just reminded how much I love the game. I love the top down view, the art, landscapes, the dialogue system and being able to choose your race.

What still upsets me is that I don't think Bioware appreciates how great that stuff was. Seemed too casual about getting rid of it.

We lose top down view because they don't have the time to implement it. We lose the dialogue system for the tone based wheel. Lot of pre-release interviews criticising Origin art style in favour of some Kurosawa style. No more choice of race in favour of iconic Hawke character.

Sometimes I feel it is a different worldview. You start a DA game, you can't choose your race and you can't zoom out. Intuitively feel something lacking. Not need to wait for feedback that you cut a lot of great features without realising it.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 17 avril 2012 - 11:01 .


#150
Guest_Begemotka_*

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Cultist wrote...

Melca36 wrote...
They also said they were keeping what worked in DA:2

Assuming anything worked in DA2.

Middle ground is taking what people liked about both games and putting them into the next with whatever else they got planned.

2+2=4, 2+2=6, middel ground betweet two is 2+2=5, it doesnt't mean it's correct.
If you mix one barrel of honey and one barrel of dirt you'll get two barrels of dirt.


As I am sure the DA team has been following the ME3 brownie-storm closely,Mr Gaider was perfectly right reiterating the DA team`s statement on the BW blog that they will NOT talk about anything specific unless they have something to show. Promising things they could not deliver / could be misinterpreted / would never make it to the shipped game is shooting yourself in the foot. As far as I can remember,they explicitly WARNED the fans at PAX that what they are showing are IDEAS,which,in my definition,are subject to change.
As to what extent do they listen to constructive feedback and the ideas presented remains to be seen.
I still do think they are at least trying to reconcile the two DA games,as well as the divided fanbase.
If,without sacrificing the RPG genre on the altar of FPS (first-person swordfestB)),they manage to deliver a fantastic RPG that has the best of both worlds and does not alienate either side of the fanbase,it would appeal to a wider demographic and increase sales,obviously. They are not a non-profit organization.

It is,therefore,in their interest as well as ours that we do give feedback and make it constructive - if you did not like DA2, tell them why.Same with Origins. But I have not reinvented the wheel here,I suppose.=]

Modifié par Begemotka, 17 avril 2012 - 12:31 .