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Willpower is useless for mages


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#76
trashmonk

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Gliese wrote...

I find it a bit telling that almost noone is even thinking about putting points into anything besides magic or wil as a mage, never mind the discussion at hand. What does that say about the viability of the other 4 stats? That's not good..


We're mages....why the hell do I need to be dextrous, strong, consitut...ed, and OK maybe a mage should be a "cunning" person, but in this game Cunning = Armor Penetration and I don't need that.

As long as Alistair is making sure all the angry people are hitting him, who cares how strong or tough I am? I don't.

#77
Gliese

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trashmonk wrote...

Gliese wrote...

I find it a bit telling that almost noone is even thinking about putting points into anything besides magic or wil as a mage, never mind the discussion at hand. What does that say about the viability of the other 4 stats? That's not good..


We're mages....why the hell do I need to be dextrous, strong, consitut...ed, and OK maybe a mage should be a "cunning" person, but in this game Cunning = Armor Penetration and I don't need that.

As long as Alistair is making sure all the angry people are hitting him, who cares how strong or tough I am? I don't.


I just think that if every stat were meaningful enough to all classes to cnosider investing in, it would diversify the available effective options and enhance gameplay.
The best example I can think of when it comes to broken stats are cunning, subpar attribute for all classes including tanks, that's not good. :/

#78
trashmonk

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Gliese wrote...

trashmonk wrote...

Gliese wrote...

I find it a bit telling that almost noone is even thinking about putting points into anything besides magic or wil as a mage, never mind the discussion at hand. What does that say about the viability of the other 4 stats? That's not good..


We're mages....why the hell do I need to be dextrous, strong, consitut...ed, and OK maybe a mage should be a "cunning" person, but in this game Cunning = Armor Penetration and I don't need that.

As long as Alistair is making sure all the angry people are hitting him, who cares how strong or tough I am? I don't.


I just think that if every stat were meaningful enough to all classes to cnosider investing in, it would diversify the available effective options and enhance gameplay.
The best example I can think of when it comes to broken stats are cunning, subpar attribute for all classes including tanks, that's not good. :/


Rogues can use Cunning as a replacement for Strength with the Lethality talent...assuming that one is not broken the way Dexterity damage on daggers was, I don't actually know, haven't tried myself yet.

Rogues also use it to qualify for lock picking and stealth checks.

#79
Palathas

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trashmonk wrote...

Rogues can use Cunning as a replacement for Strength with the Lethality talent...assuming that one is not broken the way Dexterity damage on daggers was, I don't actually know, haven't tried myself yet.

Rogues also use it to qualify for lock picking and stealth checks.


Cunning is definitely a Rogue stat and is working extremely well with my Duelist/Assassin. I've taken strength just high enough to wear some half decent light armour and I have two items that reduce threat so sneaking around and hitting things with a poisoned backstab cleans them up pretty quick. I've worked mostly on DEX and CUN with a splash of STR, WILL. Now that my Stealth is up fairly high I don't miss the CON unless I get swarmed.

I either use Alistair or Shale in Defensive mode to keep the baddies occupied.

Modifié par Palathas, 07 décembre 2009 - 02:41 .


#80
MerinTB

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Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Yeah, see, I'd rather have the mental resistance bonus AND the extra mana and not spend every 2nd or 3rd action drinking a potion then re-turning on my sustaineds that shut off due to running out of mana.

Or I could crunch numbers and do math and not play a single-player CRPG but instead need to game the system for the best possible selections ever. While I'm at it I might as well use a mod to just give me unlimited mana so I don't have to use potions at all. And then since I'm already there I could just turned off the cool-down timers on all spells. There we go.

Yeah, so, crunch your numbers and figure out the best way to win fights the fastest - if that is what makes the game fun for you, go to town!
Just don't come back later and complain the game is too easy.


not everyone enjoys being an intentional retard in the hope they don't break the game.  maybe you have more practice than we do?


Not everyone is an insulting min-max munchkin who's only way to have fun is to cut every corner.

Some people buy the story-based CRPGs to, well, role-play.

If you need to find the best formulas and only the surest way to kill things as that is your only idea of fun, knock yourself out with some MMOs.


you don't need any formula to figure out how bad willpower is.  just happen to know where the infinite potions are.  typical fanboi response though, showing aggression coupled with a complete lack of understanding about the game.


No, YOU don't need any formula for YOU to base your OPINION on willpower being bad.
YOU have no problem with using ridiculous numbers of potions so YOU see no need for Willpower.
YOU have no problem with a character being so slanted during creation and leveling that it isn't an RPG you are playing but a "tactical game where you have to best guess which row to put your numbers in for maximum effect."

But feel free to let loose with the ad hominem attacks.  Everytime someone devolves their argument to calling someone a "fanboi", I know the person using the logical fallacy has the losing argument.  If all you have is name-calling and belittling then you really have no argument.

Willpower is useless TO YOU and to those who THINK LIKE YOU.  To other people, like me, it's one of many stats on a character in an RPG that you can raise and have multiple reasons for doing so.

My complete lack of understanding allowed me to win the last battle of the game on my first try with my Rogue who was built for non-combat - a combat that saw my only mage, the Shape-shifting Morrigan, die before the Big Bad was even down a quarter health.  But yeah, I obviously am making those big mistakes like putting points in Con and Willpower on a Rogue so my character obviously sucked so bad.

:whistle:

Modifié par MerinTB, 07 décembre 2009 - 02:28 .


#81
Lacan2

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Dark83 wrote...

Hm.
Let us look at Winter's Grasp. 20 mana, 36 + 0.36*SP damage.

It takes 4 attributes to get an extra Winter's Grasp off. Let us compare it as if you have 20 mana base, with greater lyrium potions.
With a base SP of 0, we have 4 Mag vs 4 Will. So Winter's Grasp does 37.44 vs 36.

4 Mag
Round 1: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 2: Potion
Round 3: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 4: Potion
Round 5: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 6: Potion
Round 7: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 8: Potion
Round 9: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Total Damage: 187.2
Damage Per Round: 20.8

4 Wil
Round 1: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 2: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 3: Potion
Round 4: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 5: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 6: Potion
Round 7: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 8: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 9: Potion
Total Damage: 216
Damage Per Round: 24

Essentially, so long as your potions can restore the higher manapool, will results in greater damage in a greater amount of time - depending on your spell rotation. Spellpower is too weak in the calculations, really.


Don't post this trash! Anyone with an IQ above 80 can see what you did here (and it's absurdly flawed).

That's nowehere NEAR what a base mage has. The base mage has far more mana, you just reduced willpower to a low enough level to increase pot frequency in order to make a (nonexistant) point.

Nice try though, but that's so idiotic it makes me laugh. :lol: Don't ever post again without thinking first.

Modifié par Lacan2, 07 décembre 2009 - 02:43 .


#82
Atmosfear3

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The stat/attribute system in this game is flawed anyways. You get such little return for each point invested.



I also agree with the OP, willpower is not very useful considering the abundance of pots. Hey, I'm just playing the game thats given to me, I care not how "realistic" something is. If I wanted realism I'll go outside and play sports.

#83
soteria

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MerinTB wrote...
...

My complete lack of understanding allowed me to win the last battle of the game on my first try with my Rogue who was built for non-combat - a combat that saw my only mage, the Shape-shifting Morrigan, die before the Big Bad was even down a quarter health.  But yeah, I obviously am making those big mistakes like putting points in Con and Willpower on a Rogue so my character obviously sucked so bad.

:whistle:


This last part doesn't really add anything to your post.  First, I think a lot of players have said that they found the final battle to be fairly easy, so being able to beat it on your first try is nothing terribly astonishing.  Second, how do you build.... anything, really, for "non-combat"?  You can't exactly put talent points in Wondrous Item Creation.  Saying "I beat the final boss" really doesn't do anything for your argument, especially since most of the people you're arguing with probably think the game is too easy anyway.  I mean, /golfclap?

#84
soteria

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Dark83 wrote...

Hm.
Let us look at Winter's Grasp. 20 mana, 36 + 0.36*SP damage.

It takes 4 attributes to get an extra Winter's Grasp off. Let us compare it as if you have 20 mana base, with greater lyrium potions.
With a base SP of 0, we have 4 Mag vs 4 Will. So Winter's Grasp does 37.44 vs 36.

4 Mag
Round 1: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 2: Potion
Round 3: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 4: Potion
Round 5: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 6: Potion
Round 7: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 8: Potion
Round 9: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Total Damage: 187.2
Damage Per Round: 20.8

4 Wil
Round 1: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 2: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 3: Potion
Round 4: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 5: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 6: Potion
Round 7: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 8: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 9: Potion
Total Damage: 216
Damage Per Round: 24

Essentially, so long as your potions can restore the higher manapool, will results in greater damage in a greater amount of time - depending on your spell rotation. Spellpower is too weak in the calculations, really.



Let's try it again with something that resembles an actual mage, with just 100 mana.  We'll ignore potion and spell cooldowns, and pretend our potions give full mana to both mages.  I'll stick with your 4 magic/4 willpower, though, for easier comparison.

4 magic
Round 1: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 2: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 3: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 4: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 5: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 6: Potion
Round 7: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 8: Winter's Grasp 37.44
Round 9: Winter's Grasp 37.44

Total damage:  299.52

4 will
Round 1: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 2: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 3: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 4: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 5: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 6: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 7: Potion
Round 8: Winter's Grasp 36
Round 9: Winter's Grasp 36

Total damage:  288

Actually, the only point when the 4 will mage is at an advantage is in round 6, when the other mage has to pop a potion a round sooner.  Really, willpower is only useful if you cast purely support spells that don't scale.  CC needs spellpower to stick, and damage wants spellpower to deal damage.

#85
GHL_Soul_Reaver

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will power is damn usefull, you need a mana battery in some sort of way and I do not think that Shale would co-operate in being such, likewise you need a stamina battery for other classes.

#86
MerinTB

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soteria wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
...

My complete lack of understanding allowed me to win the last battle of the game on my first try with my Rogue who was built for non-combat - a combat that saw my only mage, the Shape-shifting Morrigan, die before the Big Bad was even down a quarter health.  But yeah, I obviously am making those big mistakes like putting points in Con and Willpower on a Rogue so my character obviously sucked so bad.

:whistle:


This last part doesn't really add anything to your post.  First, I think a lot of players have said that they found the final battle to be fairly easy, so being able to beat it on your first try is nothing terribly astonishing.  Second, how do you build.... anything, really, for "non-combat"?  You can't exactly put talent points in Wondrous Item Creation.  Saying "I beat the final boss" really doesn't do anything for your argument, especially since most of the people you're arguing with probably think the game is too easy anyway.  I mean, /golfclap?


I was accused of having a complete lack of understanding of the game.  This is typical from people who think mages are OP, that you are insane if you don't play an AW mage, that you have to max Magic stat yoru mage.  I was merely pointing out that I won the game, including the last battle, with neither an MC mage nor a maxed out Magic stat mage, nor really any mage (again, Morrigan, whom I used at least half the time for shape shifting) went down very early.

If I suffered from "a complete lack of understanding about the game" then I doubt I would have been able to, on the fly, figure out how to win the last battle with ONLY MY ROGUE.  That was all.  I was not looking for praise, nor saying it was difficult - just pointing out that I understood the game well enough to basically solo what should be (whether it is or not) the toughest fight of the game.

Non-combat rogue means that I didn't put all my points in Dex.  Means I maxed out non-combat skills first.  If you look at my Rogue's build you can see that I spread out talents and stat points in a far from max efficiency means.  That's it, that's all I was pointing out.  That you can play the game to have fun, RP your character, not min-max beyond reason, and STILL win without difficulty.

If the game is too easy regardless, then you cannot gimp yourself because it should be easy to win regardless.  If you have to max out your character (magic character, or certain stats / spells only) then I and others shouldn't be able to win the game easily without doing so.

The logic of "Willpower is useless" falls apart completely on two levels, regardless of any argument others make:

1 - Multiple, multiple people saying that it isn't useless to them - hence it is useful to someone, and therefore not useless
2 - If it was necessary to max out the Magic stat for maximum spellpower, and therefore using Willpower instead is dumb as it "gimps" your character, then people who DON'T max out their Magic stat should be frustrated and having a harder time than they are reporting.

The fact of the matter is that it is a matter of opinion whether putting points into Willpower is worth it or not.  Some say it isn't, some say it is.
Because you can do math and prove that you get more damage over time with a higher Magic stat by not putting points in Willpower and using potions to compensate ONLY means that you do more damage over time, and that STILL doesn't equate to Willpower being useless.  It only equates to Willpower being unimportant to those who are concerned with max damage over time.

And that's the end of my discussing this.  Rant on.

#87
DaeFaron

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I shall never play an arcane warrior/blood mage simply because of these forums. Everybody praises those two specs and how they can solo nightmare no problem, since I play on normal why should I willingly make a 'god' powered character?

#88
Schyzm

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MerinTB wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Yeah, see, I'd rather have the mental resistance bonus AND the extra mana and not spend every 2nd or 3rd action drinking a potion then re-turning on my sustaineds that shut off due to running out of mana.

Or I could crunch numbers and do math and not play a single-player CRPG but instead need to game the system for the best possible selections ever. While I'm at it I might as well use a mod to just give me unlimited mana so I don't have to use potions at all. And then since I'm already there I could just turned off the cool-down timers on all spells. There we go.

Yeah, so, crunch your numbers and figure out the best way to win fights the fastest - if that is what makes the game fun for you, go to town!
Just don't come back later and complain the game is too easy.


not everyone enjoys being an intentional retard in the hope they don't break the game.  maybe you have more practice than we do?


Not everyone is an insulting min-max munchkin who's only way to have fun is to cut every corner.

Some people buy the story-based CRPGs to, well, role-play.

If you need to find the best formulas and only the surest way to kill things as that is your only idea of fun, knock yourself out with some MMOs.


you don't need any formula to figure out how bad willpower is.  just happen to know where the infinite potions are.  typical fanboi response though, showing aggression coupled with a complete lack of understanding about the game.


No, YOU don't need any formula for YOU to base your OPINION on willpower being bad.
YOU have no problem with using ridiculous numbers of potions so YOU see no need for Willpower.
YOU have no problem with a character being so slanted during creation and leveling that it isn't an RPG you are playing but a "tactical game where you have to best guess which row to put your numbers in for maximum effect."

But feel free to let loose with the ad hominem attacks.  Everytime someone devolves their argument to calling someone a "fanboi", I know the person using the logical fallacy has the losing argument.  If all you have is name-calling and belittling then you really have no argument.

Willpower is useless TO YOU and to those who THINK LIKE YOU.  To other people, like me, it's one of many stats on a character in an RPG that you can raise and have multiple reasons for doing so.

My complete lack of understanding allowed me to win the last battle of the game on my first try with my Rogue who was built for non-combat - a combat that saw my only mage, the Shape-shifting Morrigan, die before the Big Bad was even down a quarter health.  But yeah, I obviously am making those big mistakes like putting points in Con and Willpower on a Rogue so my character obviously sucked so bad.

:whistle:


oh I had some points in willpower in my playthrough, but I eventualy stopped because it became pretty evident its not a great idea.

the combat mechanics are not subjective.  why do all the slobbering fanbois think that everything they do is subjective, could it be because they universally make such bad decisions?

#89
Inarai

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Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Yeah, see, I'd rather have the mental resistance bonus AND the extra mana and not spend every 2nd or 3rd action drinking a potion then re-turning on my sustaineds that shut off due to running out of mana.

Or I could crunch numbers and do math and not play a single-player CRPG but instead need to game the system for the best possible selections ever. While I'm at it I might as well use a mod to just give me unlimited mana so I don't have to use potions at all. And then since I'm already there I could just turned off the cool-down timers on all spells. There we go.

Yeah, so, crunch your numbers and figure out the best way to win fights the fastest - if that is what makes the game fun for you, go to town!
Just don't come back later and complain the game is too easy.


not everyone enjoys being an intentional retard in the hope they don't break the game.  maybe you have more practice than we do?


Not everyone is an insulting min-max munchkin who's only way to have fun is to cut every corner.

Some people buy the story-based CRPGs to, well, role-play.

If you need to find the best formulas and only the surest way to kill things as that is your only idea of fun, knock yourself out with some MMOs.


you don't need any formula to figure out how bad willpower is.  just happen to know where the infinite potions are.  typical fanboi response though, showing aggression coupled with a complete lack of understanding about the game.


No, YOU don't need any formula for YOU to base your OPINION on willpower being bad.
YOU have no problem with using ridiculous numbers of potions so YOU see no need for Willpower.
YOU have no problem with a character being so slanted during creation and leveling that it isn't an RPG you are playing but a "tactical game where you have to best guess which row to put your numbers in for maximum effect."

But feel free to let loose with the ad hominem attacks.  Everytime someone devolves their argument to calling someone a "fanboi", I know the person using the logical fallacy has the losing argument.  If all you have is name-calling and belittling then you really have no argument.

Willpower is useless TO YOU and to those who THINK LIKE YOU.  To other people, like me, it's one of many stats on a character in an RPG that you can raise and have multiple reasons for doing so.

My complete lack of understanding allowed me to win the last battle of the game on my first try with my Rogue who was built for non-combat - a combat that saw my only mage, the Shape-shifting Morrigan, die before the Big Bad was even down a quarter health.  But yeah, I obviously am making those big mistakes like putting points in Con and Willpower on a Rogue so my character obviously sucked so bad.

:whistle:


oh I had some points in willpower in my playthrough, but I eventualy stopped because it became pretty evident its not a great idea.

the combat mechanics are not subjective.  why do all the slobbering fanbois think that everything they do is subjective, could it be because they universally make such bad decisions?


Actually, personal experience and anecdote is, by definition, subjective.  On the other hand, hard numbers aren't.

#90
rmp

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I like to have lots of sustained buffs, so I put lots of points into willpower.

#91
Tonya777

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You know on my lvl 24 mage I do notice my spells are pretty weak and that my mana never runs out



Maybe on my next mage I'll try doing less willpower on them

#92
DaeFaron

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When I make my mage, I already have the stats planned out. For every level, I'll do 2 in magic, 1 in willpower.

#93
Schyzm

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Inarai wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Yeah, see, I'd rather have the mental resistance bonus AND the extra mana and not spend every 2nd or 3rd action drinking a potion then re-turning on my sustaineds that shut off due to running out of mana.

Or I could crunch numbers and do math and not play a single-player CRPG but instead need to game the system for the best possible selections ever. While I'm at it I might as well use a mod to just give me unlimited mana so I don't have to use potions at all. And then since I'm already there I could just turned off the cool-down timers on all spells. There we go.

Yeah, so, crunch your numbers and figure out the best way to win fights the fastest - if that is what makes the game fun for you, go to town!
Just don't come back later and complain the game is too easy.


not everyone enjoys being an intentional retard in the hope they don't break the game.  maybe you have more practice than we do?


Not everyone is an insulting min-max munchkin who's only way to have fun is to cut every corner.

Some people buy the story-based CRPGs to, well, role-play.

If you need to find the best formulas and only the surest way to kill things as that is your only idea of fun, knock yourself out with some MMOs.


you don't need any formula to figure out how bad willpower is.  just happen to know where the infinite potions are.  typical fanboi response though, showing aggression coupled with a complete lack of understanding about the game.


No, YOU don't need any formula for YOU to base your OPINION on willpower being bad.
YOU have no problem with using ridiculous numbers of potions so YOU see no need for Willpower.
YOU have no problem with a character being so slanted during creation and leveling that it isn't an RPG you are playing but a "tactical game where you have to best guess which row to put your numbers in for maximum effect."

But feel free to let loose with the ad hominem attacks.  Everytime someone devolves their argument to calling someone a "fanboi", I know the person using the logical fallacy has the losing argument.  If all you have is name-calling and belittling then you really have no argument.

Willpower is useless TO YOU and to those who THINK LIKE YOU.  To other people, like me, it's one of many stats on a character in an RPG that you can raise and have multiple reasons for doing so.

My complete lack of understanding allowed me to win the last battle of the game on my first try with my Rogue who was built for non-combat - a combat that saw my only mage, the Shape-shifting Morrigan, die before the Big Bad was even down a quarter health.  But yeah, I obviously am making those big mistakes like putting points in Con and Willpower on a Rogue so my character obviously sucked so bad.

:whistle:


oh I had some points in willpower in my playthrough, but I eventualy stopped because it became pretty evident its not a great idea.

the combat mechanics are not subjective.  why do all the slobbering fanbois think that everything they do is subjective, could it be because they universally make such bad decisions?


Actually, personal experience and anecdote is, by definition, subjective.  On the other hand, hard numbers aren't.


there exists objectivity outside digitization, sorry.  one can have arguments either way, but at no time should anyone intelligent be under the impression that its just "whatever."  the hilarious part about the subjective obsessed fanbois is it's used more as a cover than as a statement of reality.

#94
RoudyRogue

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Schyzm wrote...

Inarai wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Yeah, see, I'd rather have the mental resistance bonus AND the extra mana and not spend every 2nd or 3rd action drinking a potion then re-turning on my sustaineds that shut off due to running out of mana.

Or I could crunch numbers and do math and not play a single-player CRPG but instead need to game the system for the best possible selections ever. While I'm at it I might as well use a mod to just give me unlimited mana so I don't have to use potions at all. And then since I'm already there I could just turned off the cool-down timers on all spells. There we go.

Yeah, so, crunch your numbers and figure out the best way to win fights the fastest - if that is what makes the game fun for you, go to town!
Just don't come back later and complain the game is too easy.


not everyone enjoys being an intentional retard in the hope they don't break the game.  maybe you have more practice than we do?


Not everyone is an insulting min-max munchkin who's only way to have fun is to cut every corner.

Some people buy the story-based CRPGs to, well, role-play.

If you need to find the best formulas and only the surest way to kill things as that is your only idea of fun, knock yourself out with some MMOs.


you don't need any formula to figure out how bad willpower is.  just happen to know where the infinite potions are.  typical fanboi response though, showing aggression coupled with a complete lack of understanding about the game.


No, YOU don't need any formula for YOU to base your OPINION on willpower being bad.
YOU have no problem with using ridiculous numbers of potions so YOU see no need for Willpower.
YOU have no problem with a character being so slanted during creation and leveling that it isn't an RPG you are playing but a "tactical game where you have to best guess which row to put your numbers in for maximum effect."

But feel free to let loose with the ad hominem attacks.  Everytime someone devolves their argument to calling someone a "fanboi", I know the person using the logical fallacy has the losing argument.  If all you have is name-calling and belittling then you really have no argument.

Willpower is useless TO YOU and to those who THINK LIKE YOU.  To other people, like me, it's one of many stats on a character in an RPG that you can raise and have multiple reasons for doing so.

My complete lack of understanding allowed me to win the last battle of the game on my first try with my Rogue who was built for non-combat - a combat that saw my only mage, the Shape-shifting Morrigan, die before the Big Bad was even down a quarter health.  But yeah, I obviously am making those big mistakes like putting points in Con and Willpower on a Rogue so my character obviously sucked so bad.

:whistle:


oh I had some points in willpower in my playthrough, but I eventualy stopped because it became pretty evident its not a great idea.

the combat mechanics are not subjective.  why do all the slobbering fanbois think that everything they do is subjective, could it be because they universally make such bad decisions?


Actually, personal experience and anecdote is, by definition, subjective.  On the other hand, hard numbers aren't.


there exists objectivity outside digitization, sorry.  one can have arguments either way, but at no time should anyone intelligent be under the impression that its just "whatever."  the hilarious part about the subjective obsessed fanbois is it's used more as a cover than as a statement of reality.


1. I quoted all this because it looks cool with all the little boxes and I thought I should continue it.

2. Whoever it is that brought up willpower on a rogue is an idiot because this topic isn't about rogues, it's about willpower on wizards. Stick with the topic nimrod or.

3. Why wouldn't you want the best situation possible for your battles? What you call "cutting corners" is in actuallity thoroughly thought out tactic. According to your logic, in order to not "cut corners" the player should not use any characters but the PC in battle and you should unequip all items/weapons. We wouldn't want things too easy.

4. Merlin whatever sounds like a tool.

#95
Inarai

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Schyzm wrote...

Inarai wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Yeah, see, I'd rather have the mental resistance bonus AND the extra mana and not spend every 2nd or 3rd action drinking a potion then re-turning on my sustaineds that shut off due to running out of mana.

Or I could crunch numbers and do math and not play a single-player CRPG but instead need to game the system for the best possible selections ever. While I'm at it I might as well use a mod to just give me unlimited mana so I don't have to use potions at all. And then since I'm already there I could just turned off the cool-down timers on all spells. There we go.

Yeah, so, crunch your numbers and figure out the best way to win fights the fastest - if that is what makes the game fun for you, go to town!
Just don't come back later and complain the game is too easy.


not everyone enjoys being an intentional retard in the hope they don't break the game.  maybe you have more practice than we do?


Not everyone is an insulting min-max munchkin who's only way to have fun is to cut every corner.

Some people buy the story-based CRPGs to, well, role-play.

If you need to find the best formulas and only the surest way to kill things as that is your only idea of fun, knock yourself out with some MMOs.


you don't need any formula to figure out how bad willpower is.  just happen to know where the infinite potions are.  typical fanboi response though, showing aggression coupled with a complete lack of understanding about the game.


No, YOU don't need any formula for YOU to base your OPINION on willpower being bad.
YOU have no problem with using ridiculous numbers of potions so YOU see no need for Willpower.
YOU have no problem with a character being so slanted during creation and leveling that it isn't an RPG you are playing but a "tactical game where you have to best guess which row to put your numbers in for maximum effect."

But feel free to let loose with the ad hominem attacks.  Everytime someone devolves their argument to calling someone a "fanboi", I know the person using the logical fallacy has the losing argument.  If all you have is name-calling and belittling then you really have no argument.

Willpower is useless TO YOU and to those who THINK LIKE YOU.  To other people, like me, it's one of many stats on a character in an RPG that you can raise and have multiple reasons for doing so.

My complete lack of understanding allowed me to win the last battle of the game on my first try with my Rogue who was built for non-combat - a combat that saw my only mage, the Shape-shifting Morrigan, die before the Big Bad was even down a quarter health.  But yeah, I obviously am making those big mistakes like putting points in Con and Willpower on a Rogue so my character obviously sucked so bad.

:whistle:


oh I had some points in willpower in my playthrough, but I eventualy stopped because it became pretty evident its not a great idea.

the combat mechanics are not subjective.  why do all the slobbering fanbois think that everything they do is subjective, could it be because they universally make such bad decisions?


Actually, personal experience and anecdote is, by definition, subjective.  On the other hand, hard numbers aren't.


there exists objectivity outside digitization, sorry.  one can have arguments either way, but at no time should anyone intelligent be under the impression that its just "whatever."  the hilarious part about the subjective obsessed fanbois is it's used more as a cover than as a statement of reality.


Sure.  But it's not anecdote or personal experience, those are inherently subjective.

Besides, you make it obvious you aren't objective; you're characterizing people you disagree with you with language meant to be derogatory.  This so-called tactic is really only seem when an argument cannot be marshalled.  This happens to call whatever anecdotal evidence you might provide into further question, in large part due to the problems with human memory(Seriously:  Eyewitness testimony?  Worst evidence there is).

#96
Inarai

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*Sorry, double post*

Modifié par Inarai, 07 décembre 2009 - 05:09 .


#97
Torias

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How about we place nice with others and not quote stupidly large amounts of text and then add one paragraph at the bottom?



If you want to quote, quote their last paragraph and add your own... :P

#98
Palathas

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RoudyRogue wrote...

1. I quoted all this because it looks cool with all the little boxes and I thought I should continue it.

2. Whoever it is that brought up willpower on a rogue is an idiot because this topic isn't about rogues, it's about willpower on wizards. Stick with the topic nimrod or.

3. Why wouldn't you want the best situation possible for your battles? What you call "cutting corners" is in actuallity thoroughly thought out tactic. According to your logic, in order to not "cut corners" the player should not use any characters but the PC in battle and you should unequip all items/weapons. We wouldn't want things too easy.

4. Merlin whatever sounds like a tool.


1& 2. Yeah, let us fill a thread page with irrelevant quotes. Heh, you're no angel yourself. They are Mages, not Wizards. What was that about nimrods?

3. This is commonly known as Metagaming [1]. Some RPG purists look down on this practice. I figure if it makes you happy then go for it, it's not affecting my play experience so why shouldn't you be happy playing the way you want?


[1] - Metagaming: In role-playing games, a player is metagaming when they use knowledge that is not available to their character in order to change the way they play their character (usually to give them an advantage within the game), such as knowledge of the mathematical nature of character statistics, or the statistics of a creature that the player is familiar with but the character has never encountered. In general, it refers to any gaps between player knowledge and character knowledge which the player acts upon.

#99
Gliese

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Dragon Age doesn't operate on rounds, it's real time. So how can chugging a potion be equivalent to casting Winter's Grasp? That is, unless you've actually measured the time for the respective events and found that they match.

#100
Kaosgirl

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Schyzm wrote...
the combat mechanics are not subjective.  


The desire to min/max exclusively according to them is, however.

Modifié par Kaosgirl, 07 décembre 2009 - 06:05 .