MerinTB wrote...
It obviously doesn't have EQUAL value to Magic, no.
Just like Dex or Con on a Warrior doesn't have equal value to Str.
I think most people were, at worst, advocating at 2 to 1 ratio.
Hey, I was just replying to the guy who said that they think a mage who has balanced MAG/WIL is best.
But I'll humour you, assuming 2:1 ratio.
Max magic mage
350 mana
~150 spellpower
125 mana per lesser lyrium pot
2:1 ratio mage
470 mana
~122 spellpower
111 mana per lesser lyrium pot
A max magic mage has ~12.6% more damage. The difference between the two is 120 mana, which is equivalent to 1 lesser lyrium pot for the max magic mage (actually, max magic mage recovers 125 mana, but for the sake of the arguement, lets round it to 120).
15 mana/sec
Max Magic mage: 23 seconds of casting, 24th chug lesser lyirum pot, 8 seconds more of casting. Which is 34.9 casts over 32 seconds.
2:1 Mage: 31 casts over 31 seconds.
30 mana/sec
Max magic mage: 11 seconds of casting, 12th second chug lesser lyrium pot, 4 more seconds of casting. Which is 16.9 casts over 16 seconds.
2:1 mage: 15 casts over 15 seconds.
In both cases, the max magic mage STILL gets more casts per second, while having harder checks for his spells as well. Simply put, the game gives you enough base mana that increasing spellpower is better than getting more mana through WIL.
And seriously, the guy who assumes that you're OOM once you cast winter's grasp? Thinking is flawed, because you start with much more mana than that. If you have crap base mana like his numbers suggest, then obviously WIL becomes much better and needs to be improved upon by spending points.
But the fact that you already start with a CRAP TON of mana (around 350 at lvl 22 with end-game equips) even if you put every free attribute point to magic means that putting points in MAG is better since you already have a sizeable mana pool to cast spells with.
all the examples you list, DragoonKain3, of spell combos are character builds to do X - deal most damage in the least amount of time PLUS using spells and items to boost up mana regen and all the potions in the world.
Considering spells that boost mana regen are stuff you should be getting anyways, and potions are dirt cheap to make, then I don't see the problem here.
Someone might not want to use the spell lines to get the rejuvenation, spell bloom, death syphon.
Unless you're only one mage in your party, you can have one iteration between all your mages quite easily.
And if you're only running 1 mage, then you're already running a sub-optimal party.
Also, the extra mana from Willpower allows you to keep more sustained buffs running longer. Sometimes you are playing the mage who's point in the party is to keep everyone else dealing more damage and be more protected as opposed to casting tons of spells.
??? You're the mage, the lifeblood of the party. Everyone should be doing their best to support the mage, not the other way around.
The only class that deals higher DPS than you is the DW rogue, and even then he doesn't need your help apart from heals and CCs, both of which benefit more from high spellpower since you already have a lot of mana.
Mana potions, mana recovery spells, won't help when sustained abilities use up all your maximum mana
And really now, what spells help the entire party that are worth keeping up that does NOT do intense mana drain? Telekinetic weapons + Miasma? For what, 110 mana upkeep? Once you spend all 350 mana, turn on those two sustains, you still have 240 max mana to regen.
I really fail to see how you can use up ALL 350 mana with sustains unless you like turning on ALL your sustains just for the hell of it (and spend a lot of wasted talent points at it). I mean, Rock Armor/Arcane Shield/Spell Shield need not be on unless you're under attack (not to mention it only helps you and not the party), while stuff like Haste/Cleansing Aura gives you mana drain so you need some mana in your pool to keep it up.
Shimmering Shield is of course exempt, because its broken in that it does NOT turn off when you're OOM just like all other sustains that drain mana. Yeah, major exploit there.
In anycase, I still fail to see how sustains are any better than stuff like Spell Clash, Entropic Death, Blizzard, Cone of Cold, Force Field, etc. Considering how powerful these talents are, it makes more sense to have your party built around supporting these talents, rather than have the mage support the team by using sustains.
Not to say that the sustain-based mage is not viable... just sub-optimal in comparison to the spell slinging mage, who can do 1800+ spell clashes, 1000+ entropic deaths, set up shatters via Cone of Cold, save people from dying with Force Field, lay waste to an entire army of trash mobs via Blizzard + Death Cloud, etc. etc..
To a certain line of thinking, as you outlined, all points in Magic make sense.
That line of thinking, however, is FAR from the only effective way, let alone only way, to play a mage.
It might not be the only VIABLE way to play a mage, but heck, I've yet to see anyone give a better way to play the mage apart from abusing the Shimmering Shield exploit.
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cast them after it had been a good idea to do so.
