191 réponses à ce sujet

[T1l]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

dunno why you say it probably wont be patched. it would be trivial to nerf them to hell just for nightmare or somesuch

I would love nothing more than to see a rebalance of a lot of game mechanics officially by Bioware; and this is one of them that’s way up there on the list. There have been a couple of oversights by the developers in areas of the game, and it's to be expected. When the game goes live there are going to be people out there who think outside the box to break game difficulty and make mechanics unnecessarily easy or irrelevant. It's just human nature; as is not ironing out these errors in the first place.

By the by, Matthew, you're a credit to the community. I've seen your contributions in other threads and I think you're a saint for pulling apart some of the finer game mechanics and sharing them with the community. Thank you very much for doing that.

[aimlessgun]

To sum up the thread, Willpower is weak because:

-You can get high mana regen from spells/items
-High base mana regardless of investment.
-No chaincasting of DPS spells that gets interrupted by potions consumption.
-Potions are dumb (need substantially longer CD).

Willpower should increase your mana regen. I actually have like 45 willpower on my mage because for some reason my brain tricked me into reading 'increases mana regen' and I never checked up on it.

I don't think there is really a 'RP' defense for Willpower. Some people didn't realize it sucked, put a lot of points into it, and are angry that they wasted those points and don't want it to be true.

Or you're playing a self-imposed 'no mana potions' hardmode. Which I am seriously considering. No stimpacks/food
hardest difficulty Fallout 3 was quite fun.

People who refuse to limit themselves in some way to increase challenge are missing out. Sorry if you don't have the self-discipline to improve your gaming experience.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 07 décembre 2009 - 01:43 .

[themaxzero]

T1l wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...

dunno why you say it probably wont be patched. it would be trivial to nerf them to hell just for nightmare or somesuch

I would love nothing more than to see a rebalance of a lot of game mechanics officially by Bioware; and this is one of them that’s way up there on the list. There have been a couple of oversights by the developers in areas of the game, and it's to be expected. When the game goes live there are going to be people out there who think outside the box to break game difficulty and make mechanics unnecessarily easy or irrelevant. It's just human nature; as is not ironing out these errors in the first place.

By the by, Matthew, you're a credit to the community. I've seen your contributions in other threads and I think you're a saint for pulling apart some of the finer game mechanics and sharing them with the community. Thank you very much for doing that.

I don't, I just consider him another person who wants to control how other people play. Max Magic may be the power option but you don't have to play that way. While you can spam potions (both health and lyrium ones) you don't have too. I fact this very thread is proof that people can succeed in playing in a sub optimal way.

If you want to play sub optimal (and there will always be a sub optimal way) you can, if you want to power game, you can.


So why would there need to be a nerf? The fact is only power gamers care about class balance.

Modifié par themaxzero, 07 décembre 2009 - 01:52 .

[Matthew Young CT]

do you support having godmode as a tickbox in the options screen for every game? if not, why not?

eta: and ive already said i only want potions smacked hard with the nerf stick on hard/nightmare. i understand many people just want to rp or already find the game hard, i have no desire to make it harder for them. i just want a proper nightmare mode, that is actually really hard.

Modifié par Matthew Young CT, 07 décembre 2009 - 02:01 .

[T1l]

themaxzero wrote...

I don't, I just consider him another person who wants to control how other people play.

That's nice, but that second paragraph wasn't intended for you, nor was it directed at you, nor did I ask or want your opinion.

themaxzero wrote...

So why would there need to be a nerf? The fact is only power gamers care about class balance.

I wouldn't see a rebalance as a "nerf" if it was done by Bioware. I, personally, don't see this particular play-style as something the developers would have ever intended. I'm certainly not calling this cheating, per se, I just think it's exploiting game mechanics which weren't originally intended or foreseen. If Bioware chooses to rebalance potions to prevent this style of gameplay then I think that's proof enough that they, the makers of this game, don't believe that this is appropriate either.

The proof will be in their actions. Either Bioware will rebalance this in a patch, or they won't. Simple as that.

As for how you choose to play the game; I couldn't care less. It's a single player game. Why should I?

Modifié par T1l, 07 décembre 2009 - 01:59 .

[themaxzero]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

do you support having godmode as a tickbox in the options screen for every game? if not, why not?

We have one already its call console commands.

And yes I would support. Up to you if you want to click it.

[Matthew Young CT]

i dont consider it good design to force people to avoid the temptation of the easy route if they want an enjoyable gaming experience. maybe this is the fault of humans for lacking self control, but regardless of the reason the game should require a bit of effort to unlock godmode. and potions are damn near godmode.

[themaxzero]

T1l wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

I don't, I just consider him another person who wants to control how other people play.

That's nice, but that second paragraph wasn't intended for you, nor was it directed at you, nor did I ask or want your opinion.

themaxzero wrote...

So why would there need to be a nerf? The fact is only power gamers care about class balance.

I wouldn't see a rebalance as a "nerf" if it was done by Bioware. I, personally, don't see this particular play-style as something the developers would have ever intended. I'm certainly not calling this cheating, per se, I just think it's exploiting game mechanics which weren't originally intended or foreseen. If Bioware chooses to rebalance potions to prevent this style of gameplay then I think that's proof enough that they, the makers of this game, don't believe that this is appropriate either.

The proof will be in their actions. Either Bioware will rebalance this in a patch, or they won't. Simple as that.

As for how you choose to play the game; I couldn't care less. It's a single player game. Why should I?

Why do you need Bioware to patch there are already mods that up the CD on pots and rebalance skills. If your not happy with the balance in your game CHANGE IT.

[themaxzero]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

i dont consider it good design to force people to avoid the temptation of the easy route if they want an enjoyable gaming experience. maybe this is the fault of humans for lacking self control, but regardless of the reason the game should require a bit of effort to unlock godmode. and potions are damn near godmode.

Are you serious?

What difference does it make to you if someone else has a godmode (whether easy or hard to get)?

Their game, their rules.

[Jonfon_ire]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

i dont consider it good design to force people to avoid the temptation of the easy route if they want an enjoyable gaming experience. maybe this is the fault of humans for lacking self control, but regardless of the reason the game should require a bit of effort to unlock godmode. and potions are damn near godmode.

I'd have loved them to handle Potions the way The Witcher does, they work over time rather than instantly and can have side effects (poisoning), which makes sense (something that potent really should have a side effect, even a short term one).

[T1l]

themaxzero wrote...

Why do you need Bioware to patch there are already mods that up the CD on pots and rebalance skills. If your not happy with the balance in your game CHANGE IT.

What part of "If Bioware don't officially patch it, I ethically don't have a problem with other people doing it" do you not understand?

Was I not clear enough?

Modifié par T1l, 07 décembre 2009 - 02:12 .

[themaxzero]

T1l wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

Why do you need Bioware to patch there are already mods that up the CD on pots and rebalance skills. If your not happy with the balance in your game CHANGE IT.

What part of "If Bioware don't officially patch it, I ethically don't have a problem with other people doing it" do you not understand?

Was I not clear enough?

Then why are you even posting here? To complain about something that you don't think is a problem unless Bioware change then you will agree it was a problem?

I mean what?

[Matthew Young CT]

themaxzero wrote...
Are you serious?

yes...it seems almost every designer in the world agrees with me, since single player games tend to have some degree of difficulty, and no godmode.

What difference does it make to you if someone else has a godmode (whether easy or hard to get)?

zilch. if they want to mod it in they may knock themselves out.

Their game, their rules.

yes they can mod it as they wish. we're discussing the base game here. it should balanced to a degree.

[T1l]

themaxzero posted arguing for arguments sake...

Either re-read what I've posted, or don't. I don't care. You're not here for discussion, you're here for conflict.

[Matthew Young CT]

to be honest half the reason i want potions nerfed is so people stop moaning that willpower is useless and mages are op. its all very tiresome, when 90% of the arguments are simply caused by one broken mechanic

[GilgameshXD]

T1l wrote...

The main argument for stacking magic is that you can spam pots; and not just "spam pots, I'm taking one every fight", I mean, "spam pots, I'm taking one every cooldown". Until that gets fixed, if that ever gets fixed, that's the correct way of thinking about playing the game.

"But how do I cast Storm of the Century without running out of mana?" Potions.
"How do a maintain DPS in a fight?" Potions.
"How do I play the game without keeping a balance of magic and willpower?" Potions.
"How do I beat any encounter in the game?" Potions.

Abuse potions until you're blue in the face. It ruins the game balance completely. Hurrah. Stupid? Yes. Game breaking? Probably. Unintentional oversight by developers? Definitely. Will it be patched? Probably not.

This is just poor trolling now.

1) It doesn't take potions.
2) Only on boss fights, which applies to willpower mages as well since they waste more mana on weaker spells.
3) You don't, there is no balance between the two.
4) Assuming you suck hard, yeah. But crafted 99 lesser potions and that was enough to get me through nightmare mode on my max magic mage (actually, only about 60 were used).

I don't see why is this complicated, every point you put into willpower makes you mage weaker. Blame it on poor game design, or your personal choice to role play, or because potions killed your father and raped your mother and you just can't get over your anti-potion vendetta, it doesn't change the fact that you are gimping yourself and only making things harder in the long run.

[themaxzero]

T1l wrote...

themaxzero posted arguing for arguments sake...

Either re-read what I've posted, or don't. I don't care. You're not here for discussion, you're here for conflict.

*Laugh* Coming from the guy who can't even state what his opinion is.

If you all your going to is agree with whatever Bioware do then there really isn't any point to you posting is there? I can just read the patch notes or listen to Greg.

[T1l]

GilgameshXD wrote...

This is just poor trolling now.

1) It doesn't take potions.
2) Only on boss fights, which applies to willpower mages as well since they waste more mana on weaker spells.
3) You don't, there is no balance between the two.
4) Assuming you suck hard, yeah. But crafted 99 lesser potions and that was enough to get me through nightmare mode on my max magic mage (actually, only about 60 were used).

I don't see why is this complicated, every point you put into willpower makes you mage weaker. Blame it on poor game design, or your personal choice to role play, or because potions killed your father and raped your mother and you just can't get over your anti-potion vendetta, it doesn't change the fact that you are gimping yourself and only making things harder in the long run.

So you would agree to the statement "Bioware intentionally made Willpower a redundant stat." ?

You believe this is working as intended?

[themaxzero]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

to be honest half the reason i want potions nerfed is so people stop moaning that willpower is useless and mages are op. its all very tiresome, when 90% of the arguments are simply caused by one broken mechanic

If your a power gamer you don't need to spam pots.

If your an RPer you don't care either way.

[GilgameshXD]

T1l wrote...

GilgameshXD wrote...

This is just poor trolling now.

1) It doesn't take potions.
2) Only on boss fights, which applies to willpower mages as well since they waste more mana on weaker spells.
3) You don't, there is no balance between the two.
4) Assuming you suck hard, yeah. But crafted 99 lesser potions and that was enough to get me through nightmare mode on my max magic mage (actually, only about 60 were used).

I don't see why is this complicated, every point you put into willpower makes you mage weaker. Blame it on poor game design, or your personal choice to role play, or because potions killed your father and raped your mother and you just can't get over your anti-potion vendetta, it doesn't change the fact that you are gimping yourself and only making things harder in the long run.

So you would agree to the statement "Bioware intentionally made Willpower a redundant stat." ?

You believe this is working as intended?

Not at all, I think it's terrible design. The game is full of small things like that. Two Handers sucking so bad, daggers being the best dps weapon, high intial spell damage + crap spellpower scaling etc.

Of course the game is great fun none the less, it certinaly is a mess mechanics wise.

[T1l]

themaxzero wrote...

*Laugh* Coming from the guy who can't even state what his opinion is.

I literally stated what my opinion was in one sentence, in direct reply to you, with no other information in a single post. I don't know how more specific I can be with you. Are you handicapped? Do you have some type of leaning problem that prevents you from basic comprehension? If so, I apologise. If you do not, then I feel sorry for you.

[fro7k]

I have only ever advanced Morrigan's magic, and left willpower alone. Wynne on the other hand came with a lot of willpower at level 13 when I obtained her. It's a matter of striking the right balance I suppose. Not having to chug potions is infinitely better if you can help it.

[rumination888]

themaxzero wrote...

If your a power gamer you don't need to spam pots.

If your an RPer you don't care either way.

What? You can't pot up your spellpower, but you can pot up your mana. An intelligent power gamer would stack magic and spam lyrium potions.

Modifié par rumination888, 07 décembre 2009 - 02:36 .

[T1l]

Not at all, I think it's terrible design. The game is full of small things like that. Two Handers sucking so bad, daggers being the best dps weapon, high intial spell damage + crap spellpower scaling etc.

Of course the game is great fun none the less, it certinaly is a mess mechanics wise.

Then we're in agreement; I believe that it is a case of exactly that - poor design.

[themaxzero]

T1l wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

*Laugh* Coming from the guy who can't even state what his opinion is.

I literally stated what my opinion was in one sentence, in direct reply to you, with no other information in a single post. I don't know how more specific I can be with you. Are you handicapped? Do you have some type of leaning problem that prevents you from basic comprehension? If so, I apologise. If you do not, then I feel sorry for you.

What part of "If Bioware don't officially patch it, I ethically don't
have a problem with other people doing it" do you not understand?

Well since Bioware haven't patched you don't have a problem with it so there is no reason for you to be in this thread.

It was such a wishy washy , nothing response I just had to laugh.