191 réponses à ce sujet

[Schyzm]

Dark83 wrote...

We get 115 mana at level 1, and 6 per level. At level 20, it's 235 base. Pumping 60 points into Willpower gives 535 mana vs 235. So 10 spells vs 4 spells, roughly, before being slowed by drinking. So roughly two more spells in the first 10 rounds.
They have a 60 Spellpower difference, which is 20.4 with CoC, 6 with Tempest/Blizzard, 24 with Inferno. 36 with Fireball, 6 with Stinging Swarm and an extra 0.3 modifier with Mana Clash. So long as you have enough spells, the slight loss of damage is easily countered by sheer quantity of spells. If you have sustains up, the spells/drink ratio goes to Willpower more as well. It's also easier to get Spellpower items than Mana/Stamina if you're sticking with robes/staves.

no amount of willpower allows you to cast more spells than a person who put zero points into willpower.

[Inarai]

Schyzm wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

We get 115 mana at level 1, and 6 per level. At level 20, it's 235 base. Pumping 60 points into Willpower gives 535 mana vs 235. So 10 spells vs 4 spells, roughly, before being slowed by drinking. So roughly two more spells in the first 10 rounds.
They have a 60 Spellpower difference, which is 20.4 with CoC, 6 with Tempest/Blizzard, 24 with Inferno. 36 with Fireball, 6 with Stinging Swarm and an extra 0.3 modifier with Mana Clash. So long as you have enough spells, the slight loss of damage is easily countered by sheer quantity of spells. If you have sustains up, the spells/drink ratio goes to Willpower more as well. It's also easier to get Spellpower items than Mana/Stamina if you're sticking with robes/staves.

no amount of willpower allows you to cast more spells than a person who put zero points into willpower.

Reading:  You should try it!

Dark83 wrote...

We get 115 mana at level 1, and 6 per
level. At level 20, it's 235 base. Pumping 60 points into Willpower
gives 535 mana vs 235. So 10 spells vs 4 spells, roughly, before being
slowed by drinking. So roughly two more spells in the first 10 rounds.

Emphasis mine.  And that's no meager difference, either.  That means you'll go through most fights in the game without even touching lyrium, and likely drop your opponents faster.

[Schyzm]

Inarai wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

We get 115 mana at level 1, and 6 per level. At level 20, it's 235 base. Pumping 60 points into Willpower gives 535 mana vs 235. So 10 spells vs 4 spells, roughly, before being slowed by drinking. So roughly two more spells in the first 10 rounds.
They have a 60 Spellpower difference, which is 20.4 with CoC, 6 with Tempest/Blizzard, 24 with Inferno. 36 with Fireball, 6 with Stinging Swarm and an extra 0.3 modifier with Mana Clash. So long as you have enough spells, the slight loss of damage is easily countered by sheer quantity of spells. If you have sustains up, the spells/drink ratio goes to Willpower more as well. It's also easier to get Spellpower items than Mana/Stamina if you're sticking with robes/staves.

no amount of willpower allows you to cast more spells than a person who put zero points into willpower.

Reading:  You should try it!

Dark83 wrote...

We get 115 mana at level 1, and 6 per
level. At level 20, it's 235 base. Pumping 60 points into Willpower
gives 535 mana vs 235. So 10 spells vs 4 spells, roughly, before being
slowed by drinking. So roughly two more spells in the first 10 rounds.

Emphasis mine.  And that's no meager difference, either.  That means you'll go through most fights in the game without even touching lyrium, and likely drop your opponents faster.

unlimited lyrium=unlimited mana.  and no you aren't "slowed by drinking" since drinking takes like .3 seconds and all spells have cooldowns.  you also won't "drop your opponents faster" if anything you will drop them slower because your spells will do less damage before they go on cooldown.  if "not touching lyrium" is a virtue to you then ok fine, but considering it's not an actual advantage in any conceivable manner I'm tempted to ignore your biased meaningless opinion.

again it'd be nice if people who actually knew the game commented on it instead of random fanbois trying to justify combat mechanics.  

[Matthew Young CT]

this discussion is so boring as long as potions are unchanged. as is willpower for mages is totally pointless unless your sustained abilities are reeeally stretching your mana pool.

[Inarai]

Schyzm wrote...

Inarai wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

We get 115 mana at level 1, and 6 per level. At level 20, it's 235 base. Pumping 60 points into Willpower gives 535 mana vs 235. So 10 spells vs 4 spells, roughly, before being slowed by drinking. So roughly two more spells in the first 10 rounds.
They have a 60 Spellpower difference, which is 20.4 with CoC, 6 with Tempest/Blizzard, 24 with Inferno. 36 with Fireball, 6 with Stinging Swarm and an extra 0.3 modifier with Mana Clash. So long as you have enough spells, the slight loss of damage is easily countered by sheer quantity of spells. If you have sustains up, the spells/drink ratio goes to Willpower more as well. It's also easier to get Spellpower items than Mana/Stamina if you're sticking with robes/staves.

no amount of willpower allows you to cast more spells than a person who put zero points into willpower.

Reading:  You should try it!

Dark83 wrote...

We get 115 mana at level 1, and 6 per
level. At level 20, it's 235 base. Pumping 60 points into Willpower
gives 535 mana vs 235. So 10 spells vs 4 spells, roughly, before being
slowed by drinking. So roughly two more spells in the first 10 rounds.

Emphasis mine.  And that's no meager difference, either.  That means you'll go through most fights in the game without even touching lyrium, and likely drop your opponents faster.

unlimited lyrium=unlimited mana.  and no you aren't "slowed by drinking" since drinking takes like .3 seconds and all spells have cooldowns.  you also won't "drop your opponents faster" if anything you will drop them slower because your spells will do less damage before they go on cooldown.  if "not touching lyrium" is a virtue to you then ok fine, but considering it's not an actual advantage in any conceivable manner I'm tempted to ignore your biased meaningless opinion.

again it'd be nice if people who actually knew the game commented on it instead of random fanbois trying to justify combat mechanics.  

Sure, it does mean unlmited mana - but it slows you down...  Not much, sure (but it's closer to a complete second, and given the pace some battles see...), but in some particularily harder fights, that can make a huge diference.  Now, perhaps potions should be patched.  But by maintaining a balance between the two stats (and you can weight it however you want), your mage WILL be more effective, especially in relation to any healing or control spells, for which there is often an immediate need, and drinking a potion + casting time is too long.  Spells that stop an opponent, for example, interrupt actions.  I can't use that to for that effect if I have to drink a potion first, because the effect I'm trying to stop has already gone off.  An excessive reliance on potions takes away a lot of your tactical options.

Besides that, there's also characters with a lot of sustains to consider - they need to be able to run all their sustain, and mana potions won't do that.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Some people play good characters who don't steal from everyone in sight and shake down little girls for rewards when they rescue them. In that case money is more tight and you'll have more trouble affording lots of pots to abuse. Anyways, I don't like chugging pots and I do like sustained abilities. So I'll keep a balance of willpower and magic on a standard mage tye. And I'll definately cast more spells in the initial stages of the battle than a pure magic mage. Peace.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 08 décembre 2009 - 08:20 .

[Schyzm]

Inarai wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

Inarai wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

We get 115 mana at level 1, and 6 per level. At level 20, it's 235 base. Pumping 60 points into Willpower gives 535 mana vs 235. So 10 spells vs 4 spells, roughly, before being slowed by drinking. So roughly two more spells in the first 10 rounds.
They have a 60 Spellpower difference, which is 20.4 with CoC, 6 with Tempest/Blizzard, 24 with Inferno. 36 with Fireball, 6 with Stinging Swarm and an extra 0.3 modifier with Mana Clash. So long as you have enough spells, the slight loss of damage is easily countered by sheer quantity of spells. If you have sustains up, the spells/drink ratio goes to Willpower more as well. It's also easier to get Spellpower items than Mana/Stamina if you're sticking with robes/staves.

no amount of willpower allows you to cast more spells than a person who put zero points into willpower.

Reading:  You should try it!

Dark83 wrote...

We get 115 mana at level 1, and 6 per
level. At level 20, it's 235 base. Pumping 60 points into Willpower
gives 535 mana vs 235. So 10 spells vs 4 spells, roughly, before being
slowed by drinking. So roughly two more spells in the first 10 rounds.

Emphasis mine.  And that's no meager difference, either.  That means you'll go through most fights in the game without even touching lyrium, and likely drop your opponents faster.

unlimited lyrium=unlimited mana.  and no you aren't "slowed by drinking" since drinking takes like .3 seconds and all spells have cooldowns.  you also won't "drop your opponents faster" if anything you will drop them slower because your spells will do less damage before they go on cooldown.  if "not touching lyrium" is a virtue to you then ok fine, but considering it's not an actual advantage in any conceivable manner I'm tempted to ignore your biased meaningless opinion.

again it'd be nice if people who actually knew the game commented on it instead of random fanbois trying to justify combat mechanics.  

Sure, it does mean unlmited mana - but it slows you down...  Not much, sure (but it's closer to a complete second, and given the pace some battles see...), but in some particularily harder fights, that can make a huge diference.  Now, perhaps potions should be patched.  But by maintaining a balance between the two stats (and you can weight it however you want), your mage WILL be more effective, especially in relation to any healing or control spells, for which there is often an immediate need, and drinking a potion + casting time is too long.  Spells that stop an opponent, for example, interrupt actions.  I can't use that to for that effect if I have to drink a potion first, because the effect I'm trying to stop has already gone off.  An excessive reliance on potions takes away a lot of your tactical options.

Besides that, there's also characters with a lot of sustains to consider - they need to be able to run all their sustain, and mana potions won't do that.

there's not much point in running many sustains, especially to start a fight.  the rest of what you said is also wrong to a similar degree.  I've fought every fight on nightmare, drinking is irrelevant because, again, spells have COOLDOWNS!!!!!<----read.  it doesn't take away your tactical options or any other such nonsense.  really play the damn game, fanboi theorycrafting and being aggressively wrong isn't helping you.

[Inarai]

Schyzm wrote...

Inarai wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

Inarai wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

We get 115 mana at level 1, and 6 per level. At level 20, it's 235 base. Pumping 60 points into Willpower gives 535 mana vs 235. So 10 spells vs 4 spells, roughly, before being slowed by drinking. So roughly two more spells in the first 10 rounds.
They have a 60 Spellpower difference, which is 20.4 with CoC, 6 with Tempest/Blizzard, 24 with Inferno. 36 with Fireball, 6 with Stinging Swarm and an extra 0.3 modifier with Mana Clash. So long as you have enough spells, the slight loss of damage is easily countered by sheer quantity of spells. If you have sustains up, the spells/drink ratio goes to Willpower more as well. It's also easier to get Spellpower items than Mana/Stamina if you're sticking with robes/staves.

no amount of willpower allows you to cast more spells than a person who put zero points into willpower.

Reading:  You should try it!

Dark83 wrote...

We get 115 mana at level 1, and 6 per
level. At level 20, it's 235 base. Pumping 60 points into Willpower
gives 535 mana vs 235. So 10 spells vs 4 spells, roughly, before being
slowed by drinking. So roughly two more spells in the first 10 rounds.

Emphasis mine.  And that's no meager difference, either.  That means you'll go through most fights in the game without even touching lyrium, and likely drop your opponents faster.

unlimited lyrium=unlimited mana.  and no you aren't "slowed by drinking" since drinking takes like .3 seconds and all spells have cooldowns.  you also won't "drop your opponents faster" if anything you will drop them slower because your spells will do less damage before they go on cooldown.  if "not touching lyrium" is a virtue to you then ok fine, but considering it's not an actual advantage in any conceivable manner I'm tempted to ignore your biased meaningless opinion.

again it'd be nice if people who actually knew the game commented on it instead of random fanbois trying to justify combat mechanics.  

Sure, it does mean unlmited mana - but it slows you down...  Not much, sure (but it's closer to a complete second, and given the pace some battles see...), but in some particularily harder fights, that can make a huge diference.  Now, perhaps potions should be patched.  But by maintaining a balance between the two stats (and you can weight it however you want), your mage WILL be more effective, especially in relation to any healing or control spells, for which there is often an immediate need, and drinking a potion + casting time is too long.  Spells that stop an opponent, for example, interrupt actions.  I can't use that to for that effect if I have to drink a potion first, because the effect I'm trying to stop has already gone off.  An excessive reliance on potions takes away a lot of your tactical options.

Besides that, there's also characters with a lot of sustains to consider - they need to be able to run all their sustain, and mana potions won't do that.

there's not much point in running many sustains, especially to start a fight.  the rest of what you said is also wrong to a similar degree.  I've fought every fight on nightmare, drinking is irrelevant because, again, spells have COOLDOWNS!!!!!<----read.  it doesn't take away your tactical options or any other such nonsense.  really play the damn game, fanboi theorycrafting and being aggressively wrong isn't helping you.

So, it's wrong because you say so?  Sorry, but you're a damn idiot.  Drop the assumptions.

Modifié par Inarai, 08 décembre 2009 - 08:46 .

[AsheraII]

I don't give a flying # about "what's the best spec" or "what kills mobs fastest". I enjoy playing however I see fit, and if I rather teach Wynne to be a pseudo warrior instead of a bloodmage, then why should I care? I clear content just like everyone else. I don't care if it takes me 5 seconds longer to do so, I rather enjoy myself doing it.



Min/Maxing, in whatever game you may come up with, but ESPECIALLY in single player games, is in my opinion something for loosers, the kind of crowd that "beats game in X hours" and then shelves it. The difference from using cheats really isn't that big. If the game was identically hard for every conceivable class/party/spec setup, then the min/maxers would probably be the first to go look for cheats.



Sorry, but I don't buy a game to shelve it after rushing through everything within 3 hours. My idea of fun is to explore the game, and find little things myself, making do with what I have available, no matter the good or bad mistakes I made previously (like leaving Lotharing without doing a single quest there, nor even visiting the tavern, to next kill Wynne in the Mage tower because she pissed of Morri). Min/Maxers would probably call me a loser for doing that. I prefer to see myself as a winner, for living with those "mistakes" (decisions would be a better word) and getting through with the game without failsave abuse.

[Gliese]

^ It doesn't give your initial argument much weight when you first state that playing in your prefered way is perfectly fine and enjoyable (implying this is totally subjective) then goes on to say that the min/maxers are losers and are doing it wrong.



I enjoy both RP and min/maxing, the latter usually gains more weight as I've thoroughly exhausted game content while RPing and start to focus on the optimal combat/efficiency aspects of the game more.

[Sylixe]

Zarenthar wrote...

foolish_sagacity wrote...

Can't kill something if I run out of juice, can I? Willpower is a vital stat. I have 550 mana and only boss fights require me to THINK of a mana potion...though I try not to use those too much. I prefer being able to cast many varieties of spells than a handful of very powerful arcane bolts.

Obviously you fail to understand a core aspect of the game... Mages have infinite mana. The OP is completely right Willpower is completely worthless for casters* put every single points in magic and rape things X5 faster... You're gonna finish the game with an absurd amount of gold a/w so the most efficient way to proceed is to go for full power and chug mana pots like there's no tomorrow. You won't even use THAT much. If you want to balance things out though I'd say 25 points.

I want to know what exactly you consider an "absurd" amoutn of gold in game?  I have played through many times and there is NEVER enough gold for all the items i would want for my main group of characters?  It's also a good idea as has been said to bump up your WP if you are going use a lot of sustained effects.  Otherwise i have to agree that pumping up your dmg output is a smarter idea by game design.

[Sam -stone- serious]

Tested and confirmed, Magic is -all- you need as a mage. Doing 180ish damage with freeze against the "normal" 110ish is a HUGE difference.

[drmoose00]

Unless you think that using potions is incredibly lame (and it is, since your enemies don't use potions).  Then, Willpower is fantastic.

exactly

[drmoose00]

Psychoray wrote...

Man, It's a shame Bioware didn't put the lyrium potion addiction system in...

you mean a system to make it less effective the more it is used? that would be "useful", and legit

[Schneidend]

A balance is definitely my preference, especially if you only have one Mage in the party. I like to make Morrigan a Spirit Healer or Wynne and Arcane Warrior and only use either of them at a time. On my current playthrough I had Morrigan focus solely on Magic, and she kills nearly her entire mana pool after just a single cycle of Group Heal, Cone of Cold, Winter's Grasp, and Crushing Prison while Telekinetic Weapons is active.

[Rogue500000]

I disagree that wil is useless. At first I dumped a lot of points into mag. Spells were powerful, but the mage was always out of mana. A few spells and you're out and away go the potions ... really annoying.



When I played the game again I focused on wil instead. With all the buffs my Morrigan has about 70+wil and 50mag before the final chapter. I noticed that she rarely uses potions, because her mana supply is huge and it regenerates really fast so even with long battles there's no shortage.



I use her primarily to heal the party and to hinder the more powerful enemies (freeze them, crushing prison, death/misdir/whatnot hex etc. etc.).



What I would like to know is if mana regen rate depends on the amount of total mana. Because if it does, then wil becomes even less useless. For example, does a character with 500 total mana regenerate mana faster than a character with total 200 mana? or not?

[Seagloom]

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