133 réponses à ce sujet

[matthewmi]

Love how folks pull stats out of thin air 95 % this and 50% that lol there is no way of knowing how many want a new end, and making up stats.doesn't make your argument stronger.

[Reanimated One]

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Quintega wrote...

ALso I'd like to point out I'm sick of the ones not happy with then ending being classified as the minority. WE are the majority only a minority of us are complaining about it. But stores where I live are saying different. people look happy when they buy it then they return it and say the ending was S*** And the BBB is even calling bioware out http://www.forbes.co...usiness-bureau/

As for the minority/majority thing...don't care either way. I find it hard to see it as a majority at this point because of sale numbers being around 1.3 million, and roughly 1 million of that has been vocally negative about it. Hell, most of the people I talked to around here either liked the ending, or didn't like it and wanted more closure, but never outright hatred for it. But perhaps the minority is so vocal it becomes the majority. After all, not everyone cares or follows this stuff regularly. 

Sales numbers have nothing to do with how well recieved the ending was.

Especially since they dropped sharply after the first week.

[Blastback]

Overule wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

What would constitute an appropriate setup for a twist ending?

Layers upon layers of subtle hints dropped the entire length of the narrative from the 1st installment. That's an appropriate setup for a twist ending that's been built up for 5 years.

For a twist to work, you need to be able to look back at the experiance with your new knowledge an pick up subtle hints and clues that you never noticed until now. 

Like how in KotOR, the plot twist was forshadowed almost a dozen times with lines like, "The lure of the Dark Side can be difficult to resist.  I fear this quest to find the Star Forge could lead you down an all to familar path" or "What greater weapon is there than to turn an enemy to your cause.? To use thier own knowledge against them?"

You have to have been setting it up and droping hints thoughout the experiance. 

[translationninja]

wolfstanus wrote...

Because they are only paid to play for a little bit... Sometimes they get the game in a beta/demo formate. They. Ant play a game for 25+ hours then make a review that in of itself takes another day then do it again on the next game. They too are on deadlines

The formula is simple, BioWare admittedly still had TIM voice recorded in December. This alone is enough to know that THE VAST MAJORITY of reviews were in the works before the game was even completed.

Now knowing this is ME, looking at the few cool new features, the whole damn gaming press basically wrote rave reviews without even having played a whole game. And why not? Hey, it's BioWare's ME rite? What else than "grand" could it be.

This is also the reason the very same people went so vitriolic against complaining consumers. Because they were caught with their pants down in an extremely embarrassing situation and the only way to alleviate it was to pretend there's "vocal minorities" at work etc.

This game release is one of the biggest cluster****s in the history of big game releases, that's the elephant in the room.

Never mind those "social media opinion shaping" and "viral marketing" firm reps you see popping in left and right announcing how AMAZING ME3 is.

It's not only BioWare losing face, it's the entire gaming media being caught red-handed in a royal screw-up of epic proportions.

You know who you are fellas.

[Reanimated One]

matthewmi wrote...

Love how folks pull stats out of thin air 95 % this and 50% that lol there is no way of knowing how many want a new end, and making up stats.doesn't make your argument stronger.

No, but when all you have to go on is polls that people have voted on...... and I don't know what those numbers are so I am not going to make them up. I thought it was in the 70%+ of people who did not like it, but I could be wrong.

[Repearized Miranda]

Overule wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Nope. Vendetta blatantly foreshadows Catalyst on Thessia

I call bull****. You cannot say that he was well foreshadowed. He's meant to be the conclusion to an epic triology.

Mentioning him in one scene in the latter half of the third installment is not appropriately setting up a twist ending for a series. It just isn't.

I've seen opinions where it wasn't a twist! There's a video on YT that explains that - let's call him Joe:

In this video, I saw a Codex entry from ME that stated his appearance - a "Being of Light" while the Ind. Theory states that - one sees what appears to be a ghost/ghastly figure. Is this not how Joe looked?

Given the Indoc. theory, it was also stated that the unfamiliar takes the form of the familiar, so the subject recognizes it. (ie: that was the very point of Legion's mission with the data clusters - frequently deemed by both him and Shepard as "memories" or his geth-talk for the gun Shepard carried as this was also used explaining how to take down an actual Reaper)

Joe, the "friendly ghost," Shepard knew - only never outright said: "But you died!" as this would be a dead giveaway to what was going on. Yet, for the sake of argument, if Shepard had said this, how ironic would that be?

And barring saying who/what he is, who does he sound like? What verb has been used throughout the series by the main antagonists most often? (One has thrown it in our faces for two - err, 1.2 games)

Again, we (Shepard) have no clue who or what this thing actually is, but being human, we relate to humans better - thus Joe's form.

The dreams - which human nature says Shepard feels guilty - or should I say - reinforces it. Yet, Indoc, says that such tech messes up your thinking. We've seen this with Saren and TIM and both struggle with the PoS (Power of Suggestion) And what ends up "supposedly" happening?

These theories are very plausible; it's the thought that Joe came out of nowhere while Indoc. Theory was sholved down our throats. Which is more likely believable - not necessarily better - nor are these terms interchangeable, really. Even if you thoroughly and repeatedly read the Codex regarding the BoL, that was two games ago unless that planet was in ME2 or ME3 somewhere stating the same thing. If so, who looked for it?

If anything, given these theories, it's possible both were used, but again, it depends on which you're willing to bite and how much.

But yes, twists - just because often doesn't sit well. Look at Cerberus, but TIM could have really let them loose on you, so it may not have been "just because" after all.

[matthewmi]

Wow game sales dropped after the first week!!!! They always drop sharply after the first week in all forms of entertainment media.

[Quintega]

It doesn't matter who the BBB work for the fact is EA is already ranked as the worst company in America by one review board, and another is now calling them out on false advertising. The point is People need to stop being passive about it and actually stand up when they are mad rather then sit there and go "okay" I didn't hate the ending at first I just thought it was lame. But I haven't been able to get invested in running my other characters through because each time I just think RED BLUE or GREEN. The ending more killed it for me because I just don't care about it. The game ends the same no matter what. As for the majority comment. It is more for the people who keeping being snobbish about it with their "there there" head patting comments I see. Those comments are the reason I posted that comment.

EA though needs to get its act together as well as bioware and stop sabotaging their games

[LinksOcarina]

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Quintega wrote...

ALso I'd like to point out I'm sick of the ones not happy with then ending being classified as the minority. WE are the majority only a minority of us are complaining about it. But stores where I live are saying different. people look happy when they buy it then they return it and say the ending was S*** And the BBB is even calling bioware out http://www.forbes.co...usiness-bureau/

As for the minority/majority thing...don't care either way. I find it hard to see it as a majority at this point because of sale numbers being around 1.3 million, and roughly 1 million of that has been vocally negative about it. Hell, most of the people I talked to around here either liked the ending, or didn't like it and wanted more closure, but never outright hatred for it. But perhaps the minority is so vocal it becomes the majority. After all, not everyone cares or follows this stuff regularly. 

Sales numbers have nothing to do with how well recieved the ending was. People buy the game, play it, hate the ending. Sales numbers only take into account the original purchase, nothing more. Besides, most of those sales are the first day of release. I also have yet to meet someone in real life or off the Bioware forums that actually liked the ending, not that it proves anything.

Well, i liked them, although I liked them in a different way, philosophically mostly. I did want more closure..and I am getting it I guess with the extended cut.

As for the sales figures, it means number of people involved. That means 1.3 million people bought the game, and so far, about 10% of that group has been vocal about their anger. That is a tehnical minority no matter how you slice it, but like I said not everyone is following the controversy or news on the internet either.

[matthewmi]

Reanimated One wrote...

matthewmi wrote...

Love how folks pull stats out of thin air 95 % this and 50% that lol there is no way of knowing how many want a new end, and making up stats.doesn't make your argument stronger.

No, but when all you have to go on is polls that people have voted on...... and I don't know what those numbers are so I am not going to make them up. I thought it was in the 70%+ of people who did not like it, but I could be wrong.

Online polls have a self selection problem.

[FlashedMyDrive]

LinksOcarina wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Quintega wrote...

ALso I'd like to point out I'm sick of the ones not happy with then ending being classified as the minority. WE are the majority only a minority of us are complaining about it. But stores where I live are saying different. people look happy when they buy it then they return it and say the ending was S*** And the BBB is even calling bioware out http://www.forbes.co...usiness-bureau/

As for the minority/majority thing...don't care either way. I find it hard to see it as a majority at this point because of sale numbers being around 1.3 million, and roughly 1 million of that has been vocally negative about it. Hell, most of the people I talked to around here either liked the ending, or didn't like it and wanted more closure, but never outright hatred for it. But perhaps the minority is so vocal it becomes the majority. After all, not everyone cares or follows this stuff regularly. 

Sales numbers have nothing to do with how well recieved the ending was. People buy the game, play it, hate the ending. Sales numbers only take into account the original purchase, nothing more. Besides, most of those sales are the first day of release. I also have yet to meet someone in real life or off the Bioware forums that actually liked the ending, not that it proves anything.

Well, i liked them, although I liked them in a different way, philosophically mostly. I did want more closure..and I am getting it I guess with the extended cut.

As for the sales figures, it means number of people involved. That means 1.3 million people bought the game, and so far, about 10% of that group has been vocal about their anger. That is a tehnical minority no matter how you slice it, but like I said not everyone is following the controversy or news on the internet either.

Most people don't come on the forums and complain or praise the ending, they just say, "Wow that was awful" and move on.

Modifié par FlashedMyDrive, 15 avril 2012 - 08:19 .

[Dude_in_the_Room]

I'm not reading all 4 pages of this thread, but from what I did read of it one thing is clear:

Even if you complain about the same things over and over again on this forum, you'll still make friends for life.

[Reanimated One]

matthewmi wrote...

Wow game sales dropped after the first week!!!! They always drop sharply after the first week in all forms of entertainment media.

Yeah just like you ALWAYS see them selling for as much as HALF of their original price after just 3 weeks. That's pretty normal.

[AlanC9]

translationninja wrote...
The formula is simple, BioWare admittedly still had TIM voice recorded in December. This alone is enough to know that THE VAST MAJORITY of reviews were in the works before the game was even completed.

You mean the reviews in print gaming magazines, right. Not the online reviews, or the ones in newspapers, etc.

[Reanimated One]

matthewmi wrote...

Reanimated One wrote...

matthewmi wrote...

Love how folks pull stats out of thin air 95 % this and 50% that lol there is no way of knowing how many want a new end, and making up stats.doesn't make your argument stronger.

No, but when all you have to go on is polls that people have voted on...... and I don't know what those numbers are so I am not going to make them up. I thought it was in the 70%+ of people who did not like it, but I could be wrong.

Online polls have a self selection problem.

Exactly, that's why its a huge problem in itself. Depending on where you go to get the info, you can get the stats slanted any way you want.

[Dridengx]

matthewmi wrote...

Love how folks pull stats out of thin air 95 % this and 50% that lol there is no way of knowing how many want a new end, and making up stats.doesn't make your argument stronger.

Actually there is a few ways to tell and it's less than 2% of total sales want a new ending.

Here's what we know

We know how many members wanted a new ending via Retake numbers of 62,000

We know how many customers bought the game via sales 1.6 million to 3.4 million

We know how many costumers didn't like the ending 200,000 (but, there is no proof they wanted it changed!)

We know based on study that only 9% of fans participate in polls and forums, 90% of happy customers remain silent.


put all that together and you a very small minority who wants a new ending.

Retake likes to use BSN polls which only consist of less than the 9% spoken about.. their polls consist of numbers around 78,000 or less where they take a high percentage of the poll.. but again the numbers of the poll is so small in comparison to the fans and sales it proves nothing for them other than what Bioware already stated, a minority

Modifié par Dridengx, 15 avril 2012 - 08:23 .

[Blastback]

The fact is we don't know how the majority of players feel about the ending. Most of them are ultimatly silent on the issue. But of the ones that are talking about it, it seems to me that the majority are truely upset by the current ending. That said, there are a lot of reasons why people are upset and how they want it handled.

[LinksOcarina]

translationninja wrote...

wolfstanus wrote...

Because they are only paid to play for a little bit... Sometimes they get the game in a beta/demo formate. They. Ant play a game for 25+ hours then make a review that in of itself takes another day then do it again on the next game. They too are on deadlines

The formula is simple, BioWare admittedly still had TIM voice recorded in December. This alone is enough to know that THE VAST MAJORITY of reviews were in the works before the game was even completed.

Now knowing this is ME, looking at the few cool new features, the whole damn gaming press basically wrote rave reviews without even having played a whole game. And why not? Hey, it's BioWare's ME rite? What else than "grand" could it be.

This is also the reason the very same people went so vitriolic against complaining consumers. Because they were caught with their pants down in an extremely embarrassing situation and the only way to alleviate it was to pretend there's "vocal minorities" at work etc.

This game release is one of the biggest cluster****s in the history of big game releases, that's the elephant in the room.

Never mind those "social media opinion shaping" and "viral marketing" firm reps you see popping in left and right announcing how AMAZING ME3 is.

It's not only BioWare losing face, it's the entire gaming media being caught red-handed in a royal screw-up of epic proportions.

You know who you are fellas.

Gee, I guess the webiste I work did it wrong when we got a copy from EA the day before the game was released, a week later from when other review sites tend to get their games.

And I love the fact that you paint all of gaming media with a broad brush. Nice job there to presume they don't know what they are talking about. 

[wolfstanus]

FlashedMyDrive wrote..

LinksOcarina wrote..

Quintega wrote..
ALso I'd like to point out I'm sick of the ones not happy with then ending being classified as the minority. WE are the majority only a minority of us are complaining about it. But stores where I live are saying different. people look happy when they buy it then they return it and say the ending was S*** And the BBB is even calling bioware out http://www.forbes.co...usiness-bureau/

As for the minority/majority thing...don't care either way. I find it hard to see it as a majority at this point because of sale numbers being around 1.3 million, and roughly 1 million of that has been vocally negative about it. Hell, most of the people I talked to around here either liked the ending, or didn't like it and wanted more closure, but never outright hatred for it. But perhaps the minority is so vocal it becomes the majority. After all, not everyone cares or follows this stuff regularly. 

Sales numbers have nothing to do with how well recieved the ending was. People buy the game, play it, hate the ending. Sales numbers only take into account the original purchase, nothing more. Besides, most of those sales are the first day of release. I also have yet to meet someone in real life or off the Bioware forums that actually liked the ending, not that it proves anything.

*

I find it odd how I have a very hard time finding me2-3 in used game stores in the city I live in. Me1 can't even be found... Closest store wad in Denver.

[FlashedMyDrive]

AlanC9 wrote...

translationninja wrote...
The formula is simple, BioWare admittedly still had TIM voice recorded in December. This alone is enough to know that THE VAST MAJORITY of reviews were in the works before the game was even completed.

You mean the reviews in print gaming magazines, right. Not the online reviews, or the ones in newspapers, etc.

Professional reviewers usually don't play the full game in general. They are normally handed a special copy or given a certain time limit to play. At they same time, the developer or publisher's representative is nearby to ask, "What did you think?"

[LinksOcarina]

Reanimated One wrote...

matthewmi wrote...

Wow game sales dropped after the first week!!!! They always drop sharply after the first week in all forms of entertainment media.

Yeah just like you ALWAYS see them selling for as much as HALF of their original price after just 3 weeks. That's pretty normal.

Happens to a lot of games actually. Funny enough, Modern Warfare 3 had a price drop to $49.99 right before Christmas, and Mass Effect 3 had their price drop before Easter break this year...

Must be a coincidence. 

[FlashedMyDrive]

wolfstanus wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote..

LinksOcarina wrote..

Quintega wrote..
ALso I'd like to point out I'm sick of the ones not happy with then ending being classified as the minority. WE are the majority only a minority of us are complaining about it. But stores where I live are saying different. people look happy when they buy it then they return it and say the ending was S*** And the BBB is even calling bioware out http://www.forbes.co...usiness-bureau/

As for the minority/majority thing...don't care either way. I find it hard to see it as a majority at this point because of sale numbers being around 1.3 million, and roughly 1 million of that has been vocally negative about it. Hell, most of the people I talked to around here either liked the ending, or didn't like it and wanted more closure, but never outright hatred for it. But perhaps the minority is so vocal it becomes the majority. After all, not everyone cares or follows this stuff regularly. 

Sales numbers have nothing to do with how well recieved the ending was. People buy the game, play it, hate the ending. Sales numbers only take into account the original purchase, nothing more. Besides, most of those sales are the first day of release. I also have yet to meet someone in real life or off the Bioware forums that actually liked the ending, not that it proves anything.

*

I find it odd how I have a very hard time finding me2-3 in used game stores in the city I live in. Me1 can't even be found... Closest store wad in Denver.

Returning games isn't really something people do these days. Its hard to do on the PC and pointless to do on console.

You usually don't get a full refund unless you make a big fuss, otherwise you only get pennies on the dollar for what you paid originally. You might as well just keep the game.

 ME1 is hard to find  in stores simply because of how old it is.

Modifié par FlashedMyDrive, 15 avril 2012 - 08:28 .

[Quintega]

matthewmi wrote...

Love how folks pull stats out of thin air 95 % this and 50% that lol there is no way of knowing how many want a new end, and making up stats.doesn't make your argument stronger.

I'm not pulling it out of the air the only game stores in the city I live in are Gamestop. 8 of them to be exact. Wallmart, target and so on don't carry games here. I went to each of these stores and am friends with alot of the managers at them. I actually asked for the returns via purchases of ME3, and as long as I didn't ask for names I was able to get it. Then I took the numbers I got from each of the stores and did the math. These were accurate give or take 3%.

[Dridengx]

Blastback wrote...

The fact is we don't know how the majority of players feel about the ending. Most of them are ultimatly silent on the issue. But of the ones that are talking about it, it seems to me that the majority are truely upset by the current ending. That said, there are a lot of reasons why people are upset and how they want it handled.

If the majority felt the game needed an ending and didn't have a life they would be here crying about the ending like the rest of Retake, and they are not here are they? its safe to say they either liked it, or didn't care enough to complain.

[Maria Caliban]

They didn't give me what I want.