48 réponses à ce sujet

[Overule]

1. Bioware made disingenuous claims about the nature of the game before it was released.

Any time the whole "they lied!" line of dialogue opens up there's basically only 2 things being said in response by the people involved: "Yeah!" & "SO!?"

Nobody seems to be arguing that Mac/Casey/Etc. lied about the whole A/B/C ending thing, just whether or not lying about a video game is a big deal or not. This in turn usually devolves into the usual pointless argument about entitlement. And naturally the important point (the lies...) gets buried under a few pages of frustration and name calling...

2. The upset fanbase aren't a minority.

This was the go-to argument for detractors for a while. That the fans who weren't happy were the minority. Now it isn't. Largely because between the international facebook groups, the 80k drive, the mailing campaigns, the online polls, the flood of negative feedback on BSN and I'm sure about a half dozen other things I'm forgetting all stand in opposition to the idea.

3. Having an opposed opinions doesn't automatically make you enemies.

This is something I really want people to clue in to. Whenever there's a pro/anti ending thread freshly opened there's automatically 3-4 people from either side who rush in with something appropriately sarcastic or dismissive to say about OP or some point OP touched on. And almost the entirety of the time it's something along the lines of:

"Oh, look, how original. Did you think this up by yourself?" Trans: "I've heard a version of this discussion before! That means I win!"

"Oh it's THIS guy." Trans: "I hate your guts, and think that it's a valid opinion worth arguing/sharing with strangers."

"Stop being so *insert adjective*!" Trans: "Shut up!"

All of which reads like by writing a thread the OP was out to personally attack the people responding. Which (usually anyway) isn't the case. So what gives? Petty bickering doesn't advance anyone's cause. And if you're sick of reading similar topics: STOP READING THEM. It's a voluntary action, nobody's gonna sympathize with you because you chose to be annoyed.

[shepskisaac]

Detractors?

[MrSquits]

I genuinely don't care about all of this anymore. At first I was heartbroken, because a story that I'd been mesmerised with since I first played ME1 last year was effectively torn to shreds in the first game I've looked forward to the release of since 2005.

Then I went to sleep, woke up, and didn't really care anymore.

EA is a massive company. They don't care about us. All they want is profit. Bioware I'm not sure about. They're the crafts-people afterall, so surely they must want the people buying their games to be completely satisfied. If not, they mustn't take any pride in their work.

Funnily enough, after finishing ME3 I had an urge to replay DA2. I'm having a great time on it aswell.

Kinda ... strange.

[Dridengx]

This isn't ME3 related it's a blog about your theories on the fans

[AlexWk31]

IsaacShep wrote...

Detractors?

[Atakuma]

How many threads are you planning on spamming us with today?

[T-Bone101]

ahhh I don't wanna read all that give me a shorter version or I will send you 400 cupcakes

[AJRimmsey]

Atakuma wrote...

How many threads are you planning on spamming us with today?

he just had another locked so i guess the next one will be about facist moderators

[CARL_DF90]

All good points OP. I wholeheartedly agree with you there. Still, sad thing is people seem incapable of meeting halfway and come to an understanding. Oy.

[sorentoft]

lxwkl21 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Detractors?

It's a suitable word for them, don't you agree?

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

If there is one thing we all agree on, it's that nobody needs you to ''mediate'' or point out what everybody ''can and must'' agree on.

[mupp3tz]

4. Everyone profits.

This is the part that I find the most confusing. You have pro-enders ripping anti-enders apart for complaining and setting unrealistic goals... but, in the end, we got additional content on a game we are all passionate about, didn't we? I don't see how this is bad in the least.

Yes, it might not live up expectations, but it's still fo' freeeeeee.  I've come to terms with not liking the ending, but will gladly accept anything that is added free of charge. 

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 15 avril 2012 - 10:04 .

[Sebbe1337o]

lxwkl21 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Detractors?

I guess those are the ones that dislike the retakers and/or like the endings.

I agree with OP.

[AlanC9]

 Whether or not I disagree with the anti-enders depends on what the actual goals of the anti-enders are. Or rather, the goals of a particular anti-ender, since there's never been any coherent alternative vision that people tried to rally around.  Some of the ideas I've seen here would make the game worse --a few would make it a lot worse.

[Oldbones2]

And reading the Pro-ender comments makes remember why the forums are always screaming instead of calm discussion.

[CARL_DF90]

Yeah, agreed.

[AlanC9]

Oldbones2 wrote...

And reading the Pro-ender comments makes remember why the forums are always screaming instead of calm discussion.

Was that at me? I guess I need a sig or something. I'm with Team Meh. ME3's ending was weak, but nothing like as bad as real turkeys like KotOR 2.

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 avril 2012 - 05:00 .

[CARL_DF90]

AlanC9 wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...

And reading the Pro-ender comments makes remember why the forums are always screaming instead of calm discussion.

Was that at me? I guess I need a sig or something. I'm with Team Meh. ME3's ending was weak, but nothing like as bad as real turkeys like KotOR 2.

Heh. Whoa. Good thing I never played it.

[AlanC9]

The KotOR 2 endgame includes one of my all-time favorite boss battles.

And yes, even with that, it is that bad.

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 avril 2012 - 05:17 .

[MortalEngines]

Firstly, I'm not a 'detractor'. I just don't care enough about the game to launch a campaign and go on about it every single day. I like to think that counts as being a normal human being.

Secondly, is this thread necessary? What purpose does it serve exactly?

[AtreiyaN7]

• No, we don't agree on it.
• Ffeel free to produce a decent, non-biased scientific poll.
• We shouldn't be enemies, but so very many people can't act like adults here.

BTW, attempting to state that we "must" agree on these things rubs me the wrong way by default.

[Cypher_CS]

Dude....

"Any time the whole "they lied!" line of dialogue opens up there's basically only 2 things being said in response by the people involved: "Yeah!" & "SO!?""

I call BS!
Now you are the one who's lying. Cause there are plenty people who are saying that they did NOT lie.
Guess what, like it or not (and I myself could think of better implementations), but the whole EMS think is a function of choice and it in turn translates into about 15 different outcomes within the three choices of endings (Shepard's survival, Earth's survival and the Squadmates' survival).
So, BS. No lies.

"This was the go-to argument for detractors for a while. That the fans who weren't happy were the minority. Now it isn't. Largely because between the international facebook groups, the 80k drive, the mailing campaigns, the online polls, the flood of negative feedback on BSN and I'm sure about a half dozen other things I'm forgetting all stand in opposition to the idea."

Well, how about instead of forgetting the other half dozen things, you show your real calculations, if you actually think you have a point.
Even if you get 100K people on Facebook or on polls or on forums (about 90% of which are THE SAME PEOPLE!!!!), it's still less than the total of people who bought and enjoyed the game.
Show some real stats if you have any. Otherwise, don't talk about stats.

It's the same as with this dumb idea of EA being voted the worst company in the US.
Guess what... EA is the only company among those with actual reach for a large population that votes online. The rest of the runners in that poll were companies that did real damage to people, like losing their life savings and homes. Gee... I wonder why they can't vote in an online poll. Might be the lack of homes or the lack of interest in anything other than survival.

Same thing here. The majority of forum goers, twitter followers and facebookers are the SAME people. So don't inflate that number by claiming otherwise.
And the majority of gamers don't really post on forums or facebook. At least not the official ones. Community sites are much better places for such things.

As for your "trans:"s...

"Oh, look, how original. Did you think this up by yourself?" Trans: "I've heard a version of this discussion before! That means I win!"

Sorry, wrong translation. Doesn't mean "I win", just means "oh great, more spam".

"Oh it's THIS guy." Trans: "I hate your guts, and think that it's a valid opinion worth arguing/sharing with strangers."

Sorry, wrong translation. Doesn't mean anyone acknowledges the point, just means "oh great, more spam".

"Stop being so *insert adjective*!" Trans: "Shut up!"

Okay, you got that one right.

[CARL_DF90]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

• No, we don't agree on it.
  
• Ffeel free to produce a decent, non-biased scientific poll.
• We shouldn't be enemies, but so very many people can't act like adults here.

BTW, attempting to state that we "must" agree on these things rubs me the wrong way by default.

I like your poll idea.

[UnstableMongoose]

Nope.

1. Polarizing anyone who disagrees with you as a detractor of Retake rather than a sovereign being with their own opinions shows how out of touch you are.

2. Both sides make the "vocal minority" argument, and neither has the proof. It's pointless to even bring it up, no one knows whether or not this a correct statement.

3. Follow your own advice. You literally used an antagonistic term to refer to people who don't agree with you in the same post as claiming that people who have differing opinions are not necessarily enemies.

Modifié par UnstableMongoose, 16 avril 2012 - 05:49 .

[Dragoonlordz]

AJRimmsey wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

How many threads are you planning on spamming us with today?

he just had another locked so i guess the next one will be about facist moderators

I have seen him get 4 of his locked in a single day. Maybe he is going for a new high of 5 today.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 avril 2012 - 06:48 .