219 réponses à ce sujet

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

We can go on about video games as art and if Bioware lied and all this other stuff but I think my dad said it best when talking about this the other day when he said..."there has to be a way to win in a video game".

No matter what you do in Mass Effect you end up losing in some form or another and video games at their most basic are things people play to have fun and win with. A video game that gives you no way to win is pretty pointless in the end.  I mean it's not like a movie or a book where you are watching someone else do all the work,you are doing the work and the reason you keep playing is to beat the game.

I think

"there needs to be a way to win in a video game" sums everything up nicely.

Anyone else agree?

[Alibenbaba]

You can lose and still win.

[cardinalally]

I did miss that 'I win' feeling at the end of the game. It even isn't so much about winning as getting that feeling of accomplishing something. At the end I just felt like everything i did was for nothing and for that feeling I have real life.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Yeah and that is why I can't play the game anymore because in the end what is the point of fighting all those hard boss battles and spending 30 hours on each play through if there is no way to win?

[Ryoten]

I didn't feel like i won anything at the end of ME3.

[Mr_Glasses]

Bioware "Winning is too mainstream"

[MaximizedAction]

"there needs to be a way to win in a video game"

This one goes right into my signature. Beautifully short sum up of the ME3 ending.

[Karrie788]

Beautifully said indeed. For me you have to have a little sense of accomplishment at the end of a video game, at the very least. Like what you did mattered in some way.
Even the sad endings in DA:O left me with a sense of accomplishment. Hell, even joining the Master in Fallout 1 was satisfactory!

Modifié par Karrie788, 15 avril 2012 - 09:42 .

[Laurencio]

I don't mind being forced to lose if it makes sense and is in some way satisfying. Although it's a given that losing is never really ideal for a game. But I would say Deus Ex pretty much was a "loss". I never really felt like I won that game at all.

[Eain]

It's a quote that, while truthful, won't appeal to a man who cuts bossfights because they feel too video-gamey. Bioware was more interested in creating an interactive story than an actual game, and while I applaud that effort, that also meant they should've used someone with actual writing talent as a lead writer.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Yeah that is the thing if Shepard had died but had saved all of his friends and left the Mass Relays intact so that the races he had brought together could have gone on make the galaxy a better place I would see that as a win,but I don't see any of the outcomes as a win and because of that the inter series feel completely pointless. There doesn't see to be any reason why I should play it again and go through all that work.

[mass perfection]

"Boss fights makes it feel to video gamey"

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Eain wrote...

It's a quote that, while truthful, won't appeal to a man who cuts bossfights because they feel too video-gamey. Bioware was more interested in creating an interactive story than an actual game, and while I applaud that effort, that also meant they should've used someone with actual writing talent as a lead writer.

If Bioware wants to make art then why don't they just make CGI movies?  As I said it's the fact that you do all the work that makes it so winning needs to at least be an option in video games.  If you can't win why do the work?

[DevilBeast]

Hmm.. You father has a point, and in most videogames it should be like that, but there are some where it doesn´t have to be "kill the bad guy(s), you won". F.ex: In Deus Ex there really isn´t a "winning" feeling to it, but it´s still a great game loved by many people, here 12 years after it was released.

Modifié par DevilBeast, 15 avril 2012 - 09:51 .

[Vespervin]

Ah yes, "winning". We have dismissed that claim.

[Dendio1]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

We can go on about video games as art and if Bioware lied and all this other stuff but I think my dad said it best when talking about this the other day when he said..."there has to be a way to win in a video game".

No matter what you do in Mass Effect you end up losing in some form or another and video games at their most basic are things people play to have fun and win with. A video game that gives you no way to win is pretty pointless in the end.  I mean it's not like a movie or a book where you are watching someone else do all the work,you are doing the work and the reason you keep playing is to beat the game.

I think

"there needs to be a way to win in a video game" sums everything up nicely.

Anyone else agree?

This is how I felt about bioshock, and why I hate the game and will never buy from the francise. I just wanted to get out of that damn underwater hellhole. Then the game trolls me into thinking im one step away, only to leave me feeling hopeless once my one ally betrays me. I quit the game and uninstalled. Few months later I youtubed the ending, YUP no hope you are a monster and die a horrible death regardless.

Quitting that game was a great decision. Why fight when there is no hope

[nickkcin11]

Eain wrote...

It's a quote that, while truthful, won't appeal to a man who cuts bossfights because they feel too video-gamey. Bioware was more interested in creating an interactive story than an actual game, and while I applaud that effort, that also meant they should've used someone with actual writing talent as a lead writer.

Did someone actually say that? That "bossfights are too video gamey?" Wow... really? Why would you choose video games to be your medium if you don't want your game to resemble one? And furthermore, all forms of stories have some kind of confrontation. Movie, yep. Books, yep. Hell even songs do. But Mass Effect 3 doesn't and it's a war story with an obvious choice of a boss (looking at you Harbinger) that doesn't really even play a role in ME3. He just gets name dropped a few times and shoots you almost... yay.

You're dad summed it up very nicely.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Vespervin wrote...

Ah yes, "winning". We have dismissed that claim.

That made me laugh!

I mean why should I replay the game now that I know everything I do is pointless?  I mean would anyone play Sonic the Hedgehog if there was no way to defeat Eggman at the end?

[Balmung31]

DevilBeast wrote...

Hmm.. You father has a point, and in most videogames it should be like that, but there are some where it doesn´t have to be "kill the bad guy(s), you won". F.ex: In Deus Ex there really isn´t a "winning" feeling to it, but it´s still a great game loved by many people, here 12 years after it was released.

True.  But the thing is, the game's story was set up that way.  You got the sense that things may not turn out so well. 

For Mass Effect, we had 2 previous games that made it at least possible to win in spectacular fashion, depending on how you played it. 

[eddieoctane]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

Yeah and that is why I can't play the game anymore because in the end what is the point of fighting all those hard boss battles and spending 30 hours on each play through if there is no way to win?

What boss battles? Kai Leng and Atlas mechs? I miss the bosses in ME2. Thresher Maw. Shadow Broker. Human-reaper. Praetorians. So much variety. Not just one bigger mook surronded by a horde of gnats.

[Alibenbaba]

It's not important that the protagonist wins, a long as the player wins.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

nickkcin11 wrote...

Eain wrote...

It's a quote that, while truthful, won't appeal to a man who cuts bossfights because they feel too video-gamey. Bioware was more interested in creating an interactive story than an actual game, and while I applaud that effort, that also meant they should've used someone with actual writing talent as a lead writer.

Did someone actually say that? That "bossfights are too video gamey?" Wow... really? Why would you choose video games to be your medium if you don't want your game to resemble one? And furthermore, all forms of stories have some kind of confrontation. Movie, yep. Books, yep. Hell even songs do. But Mass Effect 3 doesn't and it's a war story with an obvious choice of a boss (looking at you Harbinger) that doesn't really even play a role in ME3. He just gets name dropped a few times and shoots you almost... yay.

You're dad summed it up very nicely.

Yep they said it and it was the reason they gave for cutting the final boss fight at the last minute.  I agree with you since Bioware seems to think so little of video games and video gamers why do they make vidoe games? Since they seem to really want to make films why don't they just make films?

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Balmung31 wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

Hmm.. You father has a point, and in most videogames it should be like that, but there are some where it doesn´t have to be "kill the bad guy(s), you won". F.ex: In Deus Ex there really isn´t a "winning" feeling to it, but it´s still a great game loved by many people, here 12 years after it was released.

True.  But the thing is, the game's story was set up that way.  You got the sense that things may not turn out so well. 

For Mass Effect, we had 2 previous games that made it at least possible to win in spectacular fashion, depending on how you played it. 

Yeah I mean there was a way to come back from a suicide mission in the last game with out losing single member of your crew,so how is have one ending where you win out of place for this series?

[The Night Mammoth]

ME3 completely missed the uplifting and victorious endings you can achieve in the two previous games before it.

There's around a dozen jump-of-your-chair-hands-in-the-air-shouting-"**** yeah-fist-pumping moments between them.

"Thank the Godess, it's the Alliance!".

"All ships, move in, save the Destiny Ascension."

[Sarevok Synder]

I don't believe in the no-win scenario.