219 réponses à ce sujet

[PaxtonFetel]

The ending was lame, rather than tragic. It is as if in the novel J. Wells "war of the worlds" the Martians would have died not from bacteria, but from the pangs of remorse

[Spectre_Shepard]

pretty accurate statement. i don't play games to feel like **** at the end. but thats just me

[bro_9009]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...
...
"there needs to be a way to win in a video game" sums everything up nicely.
...

Well said. ME3 didn't feel like a win. DA:O was a great game in that regard, both choices (ultimate sacrifice and dark ritual) provided an epic feeling of heroic victory and a great conclusion to the story.

There was actually a thread on BSN DA:O Lead Designer Comments on ME3 Ending Debacle.
Last post on that thread was from 27 days ago, somewhat hard to believe that it has been such a long time since this whole mess with the endings started.

[eddieoctane]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

It depends on your definition of "winning." That could mean the cliche ultimate hero victory where everyone lives and the bad guys are dead. That could also mean the more tragic approach heavy on sacrifice. It really depends on the genre of the game and the direction the writers want to go with it. With that said, ME3 admittedly did have a very bleak and nihilistic ending... it wouldn't have hurt to inject a bit of hope in the big finale. However, I'd also be pretty irritated if we won against the Reapers without a scratch.

No. There was no "winning" in ME3's ending, regardless of definition. At best, it's a pyrrhic victory. That has little-no place in video games. Especially when every other title in the series lets you come out on top. I walked away from the suicide mission with everyone alive, because I refused to accept otherwise. I lost 1 person in ME1. One person. that was it. Suddenly, everything has to go to hell despite the franchise clearly allowing the player to achieve the "perfect victory" elsewhere.

That is BS. The ending sucked by every metric.

What do you mean "no?"  My point was that the ending was bleak and needed more hope, but with also a tinge of personal tragedy.  We are basically agreeing on the key points, minus the level of tragedy.  I'm unhappy with the ending because it made the journey pointless.  Isn't that the same thing you. just. said?

"It wouldn't hurt to inject some hope." "It depends on your definition of winning."

Those comments imply the point is debatable, but the failure of the ending is empirical. That is what I was saying "no" to.

[Oldbones2]

I agree OP.

In a film you are disconnected from the character. You don't really have a stake in whether he wins or loses.


But in a game (and this goes DOUBLE for an RPG) when something happens, it feels like its happening TO YOU.

And in a sense it does. Those are your credits on the line, your upgrades you worked hard to get, your relationships you built. You have actually stakes in whether or not your character dies.

This ignores whatever emotional investment you have in the game, as well.


Now it is possible to make a satisfying game where your character dies. (DA O) but keep in mind that you also win.

You see after playing games for years. We now (incorrectly) associate winning with the ending.

For example; if you are playing and you die, and thus fail. The game doesn't rewrite itself to explain what happens to everyone since your guy died (though this would be ****ing super cool). Now it reloads you and you play again until you win.

Winning is the only true way to end a game.
Thus winning is essential.


Going back to ME 3. There is no way to win.

I'd like to say you tie. But considering the options and their outcomes, I think its more fair to say the Reapers win, but not completely and not in the way they thought they would.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

pretty accurate statement. i don't play games to feel like **** at the end. but thats just me

and me and pretty much everyone else I have talked to about this.  I tell you I have run into so many people who have not bought this game because they saw the ending on youtube and don't see the point in playing it.

[HBK Dew Man]

 Victory doesnt have to feel good. What matters is that you won.

[Reorte]

HBK Dew Man wrote...

 Victory doesnt have to feel good. What matters is that you won.

In real life that's arguably true. Not on something that I'd spent money on to be entertained with.

[Athlonis1]

Indeed. And, you can "win" even if shepard dies. It ain't hard to do. Make him die to actually protect something/someone. I.E save the galaxy you just united rather than plunge it into a dark age.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Oldbones2 wrote...

I agree OP.

In a film you are disconnected from the character. You don't really have a stake in whether he wins or loses.


But in a game (and this goes DOUBLE for an RPG) when something happens, it feels like its happening TO YOU.

And in a sense it does. Those are your credits on the line, your upgrades you worked hard to get, your relationships you built. You have actually stakes in whether or not your character dies.

This ignores whatever emotional investment you have in the game, as well.


Now it is possible to make a satisfying game where your character dies. (DA O) but keep in mind that you also win.

You see after playing games for years. We now (incorrectly) associate winning with the ending.

For example; if you are playing and you die, and thus fail. The game doesn't rewrite itself to explain what happens to everyone since your guy died (though this would be ****ing super cool). Now it reloads you and you play again until you win.

Winning is the only true way to end a game.
Thus winning is essential.


Going back to ME 3. There is no way to win.

I'd like to say you tie. But considering the options and their outcomes, I think its more fair to say the Reapers win, but not completely and not in the way they thought they would.

Yeah well said.  i don't think I can add anything to that.

[Mixorz]

*Yawn*

This game gave you three ways to win, stop being overly dramatic and move on.

*inb4spacemagicholdtheline*

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Athlonis1 wrote...

Indeed. And, you can "win" even if shepard dies. It ain't hard to do. Make him die to actually protect something/someone. I.E save the galaxy you just united rather than plunge it into a dark age.

Yeah i was expecting that to be one of the options and I was okay with that,but what we got just makes playing all three of the games pointless.

[mupp3tz]

Reorte wrote...

HBK Dew Man wrote...

 Victory doesnt have to feel good. What matters is that you won.

In real life that's arguably true. Not on something that I'd spent money on to be entertained with.

bwFex summed it up best for me:

"Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing."

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 15 avril 2012 - 10:57 .

[pjotroos]

Oldbones2 wrote...
I'd like to say you tie. But considering the options and their outcomes, I think its more fair to say the Reapers win, but not completely and not in the way they thought they would.

Yeah, pretty much. Considering what happens in the game, they should replace "Take Earth Back" with "Have Earth Given Back To You". Reapers could've easily won the whole thing if Star-Jar Binks simply didn't give Shepard the elevator ride.

[Felis Menari]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...



I call him StarHitler and I was so expecting to has an option to take him down.

I think Bioware were going for the whole sacrifice thing. It fell flat on its face however, since Shepards sacrifice counted for nothing as no matter what "choice" you picked, pretty much everybody gets f**ked over.

That's how I felt after finishing my first run through ME3. I was lefting thinking to myself "WTF was it all for?!".

Modifié par Felis Menari, 15 avril 2012 - 10:59 .

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Reorte wrote...

HBK Dew Man wrote...

 Victory doesnt have to feel good. What matters is that you won.

In real life that's arguably true. Not on something that I'd spent money on to be entertained with.

bwFex summed it up best for me:

"Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing."

Yep.  Also just because something is art doesn't mean it has to be depressing. Look at all the paintings and pieces of music that have been made where the artist wanted to lift people's spirits with their art.  Is Beethoven not a real artist because my spirits are uplifted by his 5th instead of being brought down?  There is such a thing as uplifting art.

[Sarevok Synder]

Felis Menari wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

I think Bioware were going for the whole sacrifice thing. It fell flat on its face however, since Shepards sacrifice counted for nothing as no matter what "choice" you picked, pretty much everybody gets f**ked over.

That's how I felt after finishing my first run through ME3. I was lefting thinking to myself "WTF was it all for?!".

Since everybody loses in some way, I'd have loved a proper Deus Ex-esque dark age option. Just blow everything and run away! Hahahahaha!

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 15 avril 2012 - 11:07 .

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

The thing i would like to know is now that we know there is no way to win,who is going to replay this game? I mean what is the point?

[Mev186]

That is the greatest sin of the ending..

No feeling of accomplishment. Whatsoever.

[Sainta117]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

We can go on about video games as art and if Bioware lied and all this other stuff but I think my dad said it best when talking about this the other day when he said..."there has to be a way to win in a video game".

No matter what you do in Mass Effect you end up losing in some form or another and video games at their most basic are things people play to have fun and win with. A video game that gives you no way to win is pretty pointless in the end.  I mean it's not like a movie or a book where you are watching someone else do all the work,you are doing the work and the reason you keep playing is to beat the game.

I think

"there needs to be a way to win in a video game" sums everything up nicely.

Anyone else agree?

This *is* a great point, and succinctly articulated. That being said, the definition of "win" might be a tough one to pin down these days. Certainly, though, we could all agree that the ending of a game should leave you feeling satisfied, at the least, something the current endings apparently fail to do for most people.

[EnvyTB075]

You're making a videogame that's trying not to be a videogame....


On what level does this make any sense?

[The Night Mammoth]

Mixorz wrote...

*Yawn*

This game gave you three ways to win, stop being overly dramatic and move on.

*inb4spacemagicholdtheline*

It was only a matter of time before the irony brigade found us. 

[Felis Menari]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

The thing i would like to know is now that we know there is no way to win,who is going to replay this game? I mean what is the point?

I've replayed the game with the sincere hope that the IT is actually true, and that we got an incomplete ending at launch (the game still is fun to play, even if the ending is bad). If the ending is still terrible after the extended cut DLC is released, well...then it will become difficult to impossible for me to replay ME3. And if that turns out to be the case, Bioware/EA's hope of making crazy amounts of money on future DLC will be crushed, much like many fan's hope of having a satisfying ending to ME3.

Modifié par Felis Menari, 15 avril 2012 - 11:23 .

[Ziggeh]

Not a lot of Diablo fans in this thread.

[AtlasMickey]

I did win. I turned everyone in the galaxy into ultra-cool cyborgs.