219 réponses à ce sujet

[Lukanp]

I wouldn't mind a bittersweet ending at all, in fact I expected one. Sad endings can be suprisingly uplifting if they're done the right way. The one we got though, was a complete and utter mess.

[ElSuperGecko]

The Night Mammoth wrote...
If you choose the red door. Choosing that of course means you kill EDI and genocide the Geth.

Not strictly true.

The Geth may well be a non-factor if you destroyed the Heretics in ME2 and stopped Legion from uploading the Reaper code.  The Geth will never have achieved full independence and living intelligence, and the Quarians will ended the conflict on their own terms.

As for EDI, fair enough, she would be sacrificed - but she stated how she would be willing to sacrifice herself for the crew, for Joker, and how she despises the Reapers and disagrees entirely with their logic and their methods.

[Ender99]

cardinalally wrote...

I did miss that 'I win' feeling at the end of the game. It even isn't so much about winning as getting that feeling of accomplishing something. At the end I just felt like everything i did was for nothing and for that feeling I have real life.

This

[Jeremy Winston]

The goal, I think, was not just to defeat/destroy the reapers. It was to do so and save the galaxy.

Unfortunately, that last part is highly subjective. I don't feel that any of the options true accomplished that goal.

My Shepard made, frankly, a lot of high-risk paragon choices to unite the galaxy. The destroy option kills at least one race that I worked very hard to save. Synthesis option allows me to take liberties with race sovereignty that my Shepard would never take.

As such, control seems like the only alternative. But that essentially makes the Reapers my slaves. This is very similar to the geth rewriting question.

As much as I disliked the plot holes and the apparently invalidation of all my hard work, I probably would have written it off as kind of stupid and bittersweet except for the destruction of the relays.

I know people claim that can be overcome, but I just don't think so. Mass relays have been a staple of civilization for a hell of a long time. The entire economy and the way things are done is heavily based in that technology. You can't just remove it without significant problems. Ships are not designed for long-term travel without the relays. They don't stock supplies for it.

I would have accepted that as well if there had been something that showed me how it would work.

But, they didn't. I'm stuck with my own supposition and my own supposition is that the galactic civilization is pretty much doomed. At least the civilization I know.

And that means I didn't accomplish my goal.

[The Night Mammoth]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...


If you choose the red door. Choosing that of course means you kill EDI and genocide the Geth. 

You're right, it sure does. And?

I didn't like it, but, it doesn't invalidate that option.

It doesn't invalidate that option, but to me, that price is a little bit sadistic. 

You won. My Shepard failed to achieve his goal. 

Your Shepard's goal was the same as mine, or any other Shepards', because this is a video game and not a pen and paper RPG or whatever. The story has a definite start and ending point for everyone, and that's predicated on the Reapers. You may have other, side goals, but the ultimate goal of every Shepard is to in some way save the galaxy from the Reapers. That's simply because it's a video game; there's no getting around it.

Saving this cycle, by stopping the Reapers, was Shepard's ultimate goal in my book. This cycle is basically doomed. 

Ultimately, yes. 

The mechanisms through which you achieve that goal are debatable in their necessity. 

Mechanisms, yes. But you said it yourself: Ultimately, that is the goal, and it is accomplished by the end of ME3.

As above, my Shepard's goal involves saving this cycle. Maybe there's some parallels with Paragon/Renegade. 

The cost is high, maybe too high. 

[Kia Purity]

Upon telling my mom the ending of ME3 and why it made me upset, she had this to say: "I guess EA/Bioware really doesn't like money that much." (Because really, upsetting your core audience is one way to kill yourself as a business.)

[PsyrenY]

Ryoten wrote...

I didn't feel like i won anything at the end of ME3.

I did. Sucks for you.

[Jeremy Winston]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

I didn't feel like i won anything at the end of ME3.

I did. Sucks for you.

And the point of posting that was... ?

[Pee Jae]

Victory, resolution, accomplishment. I didn't even feel a sliver of these at the end. Mass Effect 3 is a game you can't "win". As the final act in a trilogy, it makes all of the games, and all of the time you spend playing them, seem pointless. If that's what you were shooting for, kudos to ya, but replayability (probably the most important feature of any game today) takes a sharp nose dive as a result.

But, that's just like, my opinion, man.

[Solduri]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

I didn't feel like i won anything at the end of ME3.

I did. Sucks for you.

And the point of posting that was... ?

attention of course

[Salfin]

You should try Dwarf Fortress if you think that winning should be possible in every video game.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

FS3D wrote...

someone else wrote...

....ugh - this thread disgusts me.

Good for you. You don't get anything for that. Other people feel differently, and you invalidating their feelings with this tripe of yours doesn't change their right to feel as they do.

"Winning" is such a machismo, chauvinistic concept

What?! Are you really playing the sexism card here?

I just want to know I'm really reading this nonsense.

really we all need to learn that success, achievement, a sense of individual fulfillment are just the poisonous excretions of our western, racist, male-dominated imperialist culture.

There's something seriously wrong with you if you think that being successful at something is a bad thing. It's not "western", "racist", or "male-dominated" if women, people of different ethnicities and cultural backgrounds also value being successful in different ways.

You're sickeningly vile to state that there is something wrong with wanting to succeed at something... And in any event... This is a GAME. The point of a GAME is to ESCAPE REALITY in an interactive medium. Part of ESCAPING REALITY is to satisfy the ego's need for success and fulfilment. Every human being on the planet has an ego, and that includes you, whether you want to acknowledge that fact or not.

The sooner we learn to accept total and unquestioned equality-

Unfortunately, people do not have equal capabilities and equal drive, so this is pretty much impossible. I much prefer a meritocracy where people are reqarded based on their abilities and what they do for society.

that no resolution is a good resolution

This is flat out wrong. If you are given two choices, one of them being to kill everyone off in order to stop... Say... Prostitution, and the other being to provider a better level of sex education to people in order to minimise risks... These two choices are not equal, and the education one is preferable, and most definitely GOOD compared to killing off the entire species to deal with a problem.

and that the consequences of our actions are best determined by those whom the majority have decided really know what is best for us

Really? What about individual freedom? I'm not a Libertarian Fundamentalist by any stretch of the imagination, but neither am I a communist.  People have a right to try to do well in their own lives, and what you appear to be suggesting is that this is somehow wrong.

You are wrong for making such a suggestion.

the sooner we can stop arguing and attempting to think for ourselves.

Thinking for yourself? Really? This is internally inconsistent with the statements you made arguing against "western" ideals and "success".

...no wonder it was the OP's dad (an old, unregenerate male, no doubt)-

An ad hominem attack combined with an appeal to ridicule. Congratulations, you just lost the argument.

who came up with this absurd idea in the first place.

The only thing that's absurd is your disgusting attitude in attacking people who value achievement and success.

I am pretty sure that whole post was a joke and you don't need to refute it.  My Dad isa complex man. He is the only member of my family who plays as femshepard but he calls Jane Austin books and films "MFD",MFD stands for Mildless Female Dribble.  He has never behavles in a sexist way towards any woman and in 26 years he and my mom have only had one fight that I have heard.  As I said he is complex.

[PsyrenY]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

And the point of posting that was... ?

That "my ending didn't feel happy therefore NOBODY'S did!!!" is flawed logic?

[Jeremy Winston]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

And the point of posting that was... ?

That "my ending didn't feel happy therefore NOBODY'S did!!!" is flawed logic?

Considering that the OP didn't say that, I'm not sure where the flaw is.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

The goal, I think, was not just to defeat/destroy the reapers. It was to do so and save the galaxy.

Unfortunately, that last part is highly subjective. I don't feel that any of the options true accomplished that goal.

My Shepard made, frankly, a lot of high-risk paragon choices to unite the galaxy. The destroy option kills at least one race that I worked very hard to save. Synthesis option allows me to take liberties with race sovereignty that my Shepard would never take.

As such, control seems like the only alternative. But that essentially makes the Reapers my slaves. This is very similar to the geth rewriting question.

As much as I disliked the plot holes and the apparently invalidation of all my hard work, I probably would have written it off as kind of stupid and bittersweet except for the destruction of the relays.

I know people claim that can be overcome, but I just don't think so. Mass relays have been a staple of civilization for a hell of a long time. The entire economy and the way things are done is heavily based in that technology. You can't just remove it without significant problems. Ships are not designed for long-term travel without the relays. They don't stock supplies for it.

I would have accepted that as well if there had been something that showed me how it would work.

But, they didn't. I'm stuck with my own supposition and my own supposition is that the galactic civilization is pretty much doomed. At least the civilization I know.

And that means I didn't accomplish my goal.

Yes that is it exactly.  Anyone can kill or enslave all of their enemies if they don't care about free will or who get's cought in the cross fire,that is not what I was playing for or what my Shepard would have done.  None of the three choices save the galaxy really and none of them are something my Shepard would have choosen.  If they are the only choices my Shepard would have choosen to go down fighting instead of going along with SpaceHitler.  As it stands everything Shepard did to bring the galaxy together is pointless because you can't win no matter what you do and they are not going to be working together after the war is over no matter what you choose to do.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

And the point of posting that was... ?

That "my ending didn't feel happy therefore NOBODY'S did!!!" is flawed logic?

Considering that the OP didn't say that, I'm not sure where the flaw is.

Yeah thanks.  I don't know how many times I have to say it before people get the point but there are ways to have a sad ending that still gives you a win and doesn't make the wholes series feel like a pointless waist of time.

[Jeremy Winston]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Considering that the OP didn't say that, I'm not sure where the flaw is.

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

No matter what you do in Mass Effect you end up losing in some form or another and video games at their most basic are things people play to have fun and win with. A video game that gives you no way to win is pretty pointless in the end.  I mean it's not like a movie or a book where you are watching someone else do all the work,you are doing the work and the reason you keep playing is to beat the game. 

I think 

"there needs to be a way to win in a video game" sums everything up nicely.

Anyone else agree?

I'm sorry, what were you saying?

Oh.  You'd have been OK with "No matter what *I* do.... "*I* end up..."?

Forum posts are almost always opinion.  I didn't see the point of  the response as it failed to address his topic in any constructive manner.

Modifié par Jeremy Winston, 16 avril 2012 - 03:37 .

[Jeremy Winston]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Oh.  You'd have been OK with "No matter what *I* do.... "*I* end up..."?

Forum posts are almost always opinion.  I didn't see the point of your response as it failed to address his topic in any constructive manner.

Wasn't my posts, it was the other dude's.

And, they are often opinion, but they often speak for more than themselves.

I'm sorry.  You're right.  I've corrected the original post.

Regardless of how they speak, I found that particular response irritating.  I usually manage to resist, but for some reason, my fingers flew on their own.

[lofte_2000]

There was no sense of achievement, I certainly didn't feel like a hero, in fact I don't even feel like I accomplished what I had set out to do since ME1 which was 'Take Earth Back' (ME3) and destroy the Reapers. No win.

[The Night Mammoth]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...


It doesn't invalidate that option, but to me, that price is a little bit sadistic. 

Let's not use words erroneously. You're saying that Shepard (or maybe the developers) derived sexual pleasure from the death of the Geth?

I couldn't think of another word to use. Basically, it seems the developers went out of their way to be cruel, as if the destruction of the Mass Relays and the billions already dead at the Reaper's hands wasn't a high enough price to pay already, so they lopped on you killing the Geth and EDI for little reason. 

Saving this cycle, by stopping the Reapers, was Shepard's ultimate goal in my book. This cycle is basically doomed.

How so? You stop the Reapers in two out of three options.

Destruction of the Mass Relays doesn't exactly leave civilization in a favourable position. Unknowable numbers of people are going to die, and galactic society is effectively dead for the forseeable future. Shepard basically sacrificed everything and won nothing visibly positive. 

As above, my Shepard's goal involves saving this cycle. Maybe there's some parallels with Paragon/Renegade. 

The cost is high, maybe too high. 

Nope, no parallels. I'm a paragon to the core.

The point is, you save this cycle by defeating the Reapers. It may have a high cost, but there's no other way. That's the only way to save this cycle.

Other than beating the Reapers in a straight up fight, sure. It seems that the devs went a little overboard with the theme of sacrifice. 

You say the cost is high. That's personal feeling. You know some religions don't really believe in killing and war and stuff. They aren't pacifists by any means, but the price of war--blood on their hands--is too high for them. But they don't say war is a horrible horrible thing and we can't have it and it's better to roll over while X takes over the world--they just don't join the army.

I think if one isn't willing to pay the price for peace (NOTE: pay the price for peace, not flood the world in a sea of blood) then one oughtn't be in the army.

I wonder if that's actually applicable, considering the amount of death and sacrifice paid even before the fleets attack Earth.