4 réponses à ce sujet

[RussianSpy27]

 Can't ever seem to have gotten a clear response from developers on this: 

Parley (Negotiating) AKA persuasion issue.

Integral part of DA:O. You could persuade and vary conversation in multiple ways leading to different results. I am not only talking about major quests like "Nature of the Beast" where through conversation and persuasion, you could ally with different sides and accordingly change the World, but likewise in side-quests such as Warden's Keep where you have various options of conversing with Sofia or Stone Prisoner with Desire Demon and so on. 

In DA2, I can count on the fingers of my one hand (probably that would be too many times) when conversation mattered in encounters with NPCs/enermies (I'm not talking companion influence and romance). You fight  no matter what 99.9 percent of the time. I can vaguely recall a minor encounter where people bow down to you and leave. The only impactful one is a way to get not to fight the Dalish clan in Merill's quest. 

Of course, I did ironically feel good and realistic sometimes when no matter what enemies still attacked (like in real life when a bunch of street thugs are unlikely to leave no matter what you tell them), but when this had gone overboard and parley essensially became almost impossible, I became very discouraged. In DAO, not only was my Warden able to avoid fights in most instances, he could persuade characters to even pay him or issue quests sometimes.

Now, DA2 introduced an awesome mechanic of your companions being able to influence conversations with enemies/NPCs and in a few instances help avoid a fight this way. This is a great feature that imo should be kept, but it doesn't negate the fact that you as the player could extremely rarely influence conversations. 

Question: How are developers addressing this in the future title? 
=========================================
Edited question about class-specific quests as Mr. Laidlaw seems to have addressed that those are planned. 

Modifié par RussianSpy27, 16 avril 2012 - 11:59 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I know DA2 did it differently where it depended on the stance that your Hawke took, rather than an explicit skill.

For example: a Hawke known for being diplomatic/sarcastic would fail the attempt to bully someone into giving information (aggressive stance), but if your Hawke's persona was aggressive, it would work. Unfortunately I don't know how prevalent this is throughout the game, but it does seem like it's not all that well known. Actually in my experience many of my friends didn't even realize that Hawke would take on different personas depending on which conversation lines you tended to pick.

I do agree that non-violent means of circumventing foes helps provide a varied and interesting game experience though.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 16 avril 2012 - 04:29 .

[Allan Schumacher]

The way Bioware games handle persuade (pick the dialogue option labelled [Persuade] and never fail + get optimal result) it is an "I win! " button. That doesn't mean that Bioware is doing it right by switching to DA2's way of doing things, it does mean we should have a real persuasion system.

This reminds me of Chris Avellone's critique of the way Bloodlines did their dialogue. On the one hand, it was creative and neat to see the different colored text, but on the other hand it really presented itself as being THE choice to make.

[Allan Schumacher]

Malkavians were amazing!

[Allan Schumacher]

Withidread wrote...

The biggest problem with persuasion or speech skills is that most of the time they force you to sacrifice combat upgrades for them. I'm sorry, but, my character shouldn't be weaker in a fight just so I can decide my own character's personality.

I don't mind this because I find it to be a choice in the game that I'm okay with making.  I think what you describe is more a failure in how the abstraction works.  It IS an advantage with the "use to improve" style that was prevalent in games like Wizardry, Jagged Alliance, and of course the Bethesda games.


Though one thing I dislike is that a game like Arcanum, pretty much requires specialization, because only having the non-combat skills at half of maximum means you never pass ANY check.  Which is bad.  I think even DAO suffered from this somewhat (though it could be mitigated with additional cunning I think).

CHRIS AVELLONE GETS IT.

Avellone is probably my favourite designer.  Sorry Mike!

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 23 avril 2012 - 05:22 .