264 réponses à ce sujet

[Occulo]

On the mako: How is the average consumer supposed to give constructive input on physics? That would involve digging into code, and understanding it... All the average person can say is, "Why did my mako flip upside down and why did five seconds of being upside down kill me?"

From what I've seen, most of the feedback being offered here is constructive.

[Zix13]

I agree that the boss fight and removal of harbinger may be attributed to minor fan complaints. But the narrative collapse cannot be attributed to fan criticism.

[DangerousPuddy]

They asked us what we wanted...

We told them A. They promised A. We got Z.

How is this our fault?

[Nightwriter]

BlahDog wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It isn't the fans' "fault" that BioWare would rather remove a game element than fix it.

True, but I find that on the BSN there are more "X is terrible and it sucks" comments than "X is terrible this is what we would like and this is how it would work."

I can somewhat sympathise with Bioware for removing features considering just how binary people are. It's either terrible or good, no this "little thing could make it work better" just black and white.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen my fair share of constructive comments but they are completely overwhelmed by everything else.

It doesn't take a genius to find the threads, videos, and posts worth listening to. Nor does it take a savant to use one's better judgment to find the basic reasons behind legitimate complaints and work on intelligent solutions.

[Jealous Beauty]

We DID get a final boss fight. I find Marauder Shields to be EXTREMELY hard to kill.

[d-boy15]

fans complain because they want bioware to 'fix' or 'improve' it, instead bioware
just 'cut' it to solve problem and shut their fans.

[RoboticWater]

Occulo wrote...

On the mako: How is the average consumer supposed to give constructive input on physics? That would involve digging into code, and understanding it... All the average person can say is, "Why did my mako flip upside down and why did five seconds of being upside down kill me?"

From what I've seen, most of the feedback being offered here is constructive.

I wasn't here directly after ME so I don't know exactly what went down with that but after ME2 and the Hammerhead came the problem. Bioware had basically fixed all the issues with the mako and then just messed up a bit with the health but the fans were still angry. After the Hammerhead all the fans decided to put on thier nostaliga glasses and say the mako was great. These mixed messages were probably the core of the problem.

[Lhawke]

It seems bioware took the easy path and just removed rather than fixed. That is not the consumers fault. Making major adjustments to games needs to be given a little more thought than they've shown.
And calling people whiners who give feedback about what they do and don't like about games?
Feedback is necessary. It's up to them to think about the feedback and change the game into something better. Or keep it mind for future games. Hopefully eventually they'll get it right.

[RoboticWater]

Nightwriter wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It isn't the fans' "fault" that BioWare would rather remove a game element than fix it.

True, but I find that on the BSN there are more "X is terrible and it sucks" comments than "X is terrible this is what we would like and this is how it would work."

I can somewhat sympathise with Bioware for removing features considering just how binary people are. It's either terrible or good, no this "little thing could make it work better" just black and white.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen my fair share of constructive comments but they are completely overwhelmed by everything else.

It doesn't take a genius to find the threads, videos, and posts worth listening to. Nor does it take a savant to use one's better judgment to find the basic reasons behind legitimate complaints and work on intelligent solutions.

It takes a company to appease the masses.

But I do agree that some of Bioware's decisions went too far.

Modifié par BlahDog, 16 avril 2012 - 01:59 .

[froggeh2]

We have listened to the fan feedback and are proud to announce that for ME4 there will be no ending!

[daecath]

Ok, I'll give you the point on the Mako - it sucked. There is absolutely no way you could survive a vehicle like that. It drove like a refrigerator on rollerskates with flubber tires driven by a drunk after a lobotomy. In short, it was awful. Everything else though, I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe other fans made those comments, but I don't remember hearing anything like that, and I certainly didn't say anything like that.

I liked Saren/Sovereign. I think it drove the point home that this was an unstoppable machine, and the only way we were able to destroy it was when it made itself vulnerable by inhabiting Saren's body.

I liked the termi-reaper. It was absolutely horrifying to see what they were doing to humans, melting them down into goo to use as raw material for this thing. Granted, they could have done a better job with the design of it, made it less terminator-y, but the concept worked well.

Harbinger wasn't as effective a menace as Sovereign was, but I didn't really notice anything too bad about him.

I do think that there is one valid point to us having "caused" this, in that there was a backlash when the script was leaked, and so they had to change it at the last minute. I don't think you can point to the ending as a direct result of that though. It might have been the start of it, but plenty of other issues, like a deadline that was fast approaching - are a more direct cause.

[kalasaurus]

BlahDog wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

I know my case doesn't apply to a lot of BSN, but I didn't come here to **** and moan until after I played ME3. I really didn't know that fans had an issue with terminator reaper, Harbinger, Mako & Hammerhead (which I disliked, but not to the point of flaming) until I actually came here. I haven't read any complaints about Saren and Sovereign.

I personally liked Harbinger's trash talking. The terminator reaper was silly looking, but it didn't bother me. ME2 will still be my favorite game in the trilogy.

I don't think the problems with ME3 can be blamed on the fans. We are a diverse group with different loud opinions.

Trust me, be glad you joined after ME3.

I believe you.  It's so easy to get sucked into all of the negativity here.  I started hating things I never even noticed in ME3.  I blame the ending, otherwise I would have loved ME3 and held it up as a masterpiece.  *sigh*

I'm guessing there was a similar eternal flamewar after ME2 like the pro-enders and anti-enders?  Glad I dodged that...

[RoboticWater]

GlassElephant wrote...
I believe you.  It's so easy to get sucked into all of the negativity here.  I started hating things I never even noticed in ME3.  I blame the ending, otherwise I would have loved ME3 and held it up as a masterpiece.  *sigh*

I'm guessing there was a similar eternal flamewar after ME2 like the pro-enders and anti-enders?  Glad I dodged that...

No, there wan't any war but...

I guess there was the great Tetrisblock war of the pre-ME3 times. We nearly lost all of our men to that troll. Bait threads on a dialy basis and everyone was falling for them...

Terrible

On a serious note, pre-ME3 had much less unity but with the same ammount of bickering.

Modifié par BlahDog, 16 avril 2012 - 02:08 .

[Johcande XX]

The OP is right, this all happened because I made BioWare do it with my incessant complaining. They've actually been paying too close attention to my demands.

Sorry guys and gals, it was my fault. Last year I said that I wanted ME3 to have an "open to interpretation" ending, for it to be as hopeless and depressing as possible, and also told them I was tired of stuff that flowed logically and made sense.

Again, sorry everybody.

[Gilthanis]

I didn't ask for any of that. I personally liked riding around in the Mako, trying to flip it over and running over wildlife on certain planets. Didn't care for the planet scanning/Hammerhead in ME2 though. I also would have liked a final boss fight.

[Occulo]

BlahDog wrote...

I wasn't here directly after ME so I don't know exactly what went down with that but after ME2 and the Hammerhead came the problem. Bioware had basically fixed all the issues with the mako and then just messed up a bit with the health but the fans were still angry. After the Hammerhead all the fans decided to put on thier nostaliga glasses and say the mako was great. These mixed messages were probably the core of the problem.

It is up to the product designers who went to school to learn how to design products for people to dig deeper into feedback given by consumers who, because of a lack of training and lack of familiarity with said product's design, cannot articulate and spell out all the issues with said product. For example, a play-tester says there should be more power-ups. It is up to the game designer to ask investigate whether there really is a lack of power-ups, or that the guns don't feel powerful enough, or the enemies are overpowered. That is NOT up to the consumer.

If BioWare really took all feedback at face value without digging deeper, then it's not the consumers you should be disappointed in. It's the developers.

[kalasaurus]

BlahDog wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...
I believe you.  It's so easy to get sucked into all of the negativity here.  I started hating things I never even noticed in ME3.  I blame the ending, otherwise I would have loved ME3 and held it up as a masterpiece.  *sigh*

I'm guessing there was a similar eternal flamewar after ME2 like the pro-enders and anti-enders?  Glad I dodged that...

No, there wan't any war but...

I guess there was the great Tetrisblock war of the pre-ME3 times. We nearly lost all of our men to that troll.

Too bad I don't get the reference   BSN must have been very different pre-ME3.

[Asharad Hett]

It wasn't MY fault. I wasn't here prior to finishing the game. Sure, I had a forum ID, but it had lay dormant for a very long time.

[Nightwriter]

BlahDog wrote...

Occulo wrote...

On the mako: How is the average consumer supposed to give constructive input on physics? That would involve digging into code, and understanding it... All the average person can say is, "Why did my mako flip upside down and why did five seconds of being upside down kill me?"

From what I've seen, most of the feedback being offered here is constructive.

I wasn't here directly after ME so I don't know exactly what went down with that but after ME2 and the Hammerhead came the problem. Bioware had basically fixed all the issues with the mako and then just messed up a bit with the health but the fans were still angry. After the Hammerhead all the fans decided to put on thier nostaliga glasses and say the mako was great. These mixed messages were probably the core of the problem.

I got no mixed messages from those threads. In fact, they always seemed to come to the same conclusion.

Mako -- mountains and terrain made exploration tedious; clunky controls
Hammerhead -- tissue paper armor

Solution: give the Hammerhead Mako-class armor. Voila.

I saw this posted a hundred times.

[RoboticWater]

Occulo wrote...
It is up to the product designers who went to school to learn how to design products for people to dig deeper into feedback given by consumers who, because of a lack of training and lack of familiarity with said product's design, cannot articulate and spell out all the issues with said product. For example, a play-tester says there should be more power-ups. It is up to the game designer to ask investigate whether there really is a lack of power-ups, or that the guns don't feel powerful enough, or the enemies are overpowered. That is NOT up to the consumer.

If BioWare really took all feedback at face value without digging deeper, then it's not the consumers you should be disappointed in. It's the developers.

OK, I'll admit you're right here but considering the mass hate towards the subject and time constraints, I think that Bioware decided to cut their losses.

Had they been given more time and still had less to give to us then it would be entirely on them but I believe that time was a factor in this.

[GBJ13]

No. 100 times No. Honestly, I'm really, really tired of the attempts to blame the fans for the ME3 ending debacle. First, we were too dumb to get it. Then, we were too entitled and had no right to demand multiple endings to a game that promised multiple endings. Now, it's our feedback.

Except it wasn't. It wasn't at all. If you read the Final Hours app you'll see the following.
1. There was a creative decision to scrap the boss fight.
2. The vagueness of the ending was intentional.
3. There were concerns about the ending being too "video gamey"
4. The delayed Martin Sheen's voice recording because they were messing with the dialogue. Proving in part, there were earlier plans to include him as the final boss.

I don't mean to be mean, OP, but the answer to your question is no. It's not even close.

[marshkoala]

@BlahDog
Isn't that happening now....the war on fans on the forums. It would be interesting to hear that story of Tetrisblock.

[RoboticWater]

Nightwriter wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

Occulo wrote...

On the mako: How is the average consumer supposed to give constructive input on physics? That would involve digging into code, and understanding it... All the average person can say is, "Why did my mako flip upside down and why did five seconds of being upside down kill me?"

From what I've seen, most of the feedback being offered here is constructive.

I wasn't here directly after ME so I don't know exactly what went down with that but after ME2 and the Hammerhead came the problem. Bioware had basically fixed all the issues with the mako and then just messed up a bit with the health but the fans were still angry. After the Hammerhead all the fans decided to put on thier nostaliga glasses and say the mako was great. These mixed messages were probably the core of the problem.

I got no mixed messages from those threads. In fact, they always seemed to come to the same conclusion.

Mako -- mountains and terrain made exploration tedious; clunky controls
Hammerhead -- tissue paper armor

Solution: give the Hammerhead Mako-class armor. Voila.

I saw this posted a hundred times.

I geuss I'll have to defer to your forum experience here but none of the mako threads I have been in ever had that sort of conclusion. It was always watered down with "the mako was the best" and "boo featherhead" comments. I always had to look for someone to have a good argument with.

Modifié par BlahDog, 16 avril 2012 - 02:15 .

[Auralius Carolus]

Our fault? My backside... I could have sworn that Bioware said something about "Artistic Integrity".

[The Night Mammoth]

Nightwriter wrote...

It isn't the fans' "fault" that BioWare would rather remove a game element than fix it.

Quoted For Truth. 

The fans can only point out mistakes, more often than not.

Like the Mako. It sucked, basically, but the intention behind it was great. Instead of just tweaking the controls and the physics engine, perhaps putting a bit of work into a random environment generator, they decided to take it out completely. Not the fan's fault, that was the developer's decision. 

The amount of constructive feedback given after the ending fiasco is unprecedented.