264 réponses à ce sujet

[tractrpl]

T-0pel wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Seriously, I wanna KNOW who complained about the Mako!!

I did, it could have been implemented way better and with better landscapes on planets, not just generic repeating patterns. But apparently the easiest solution is remove it, there, problem solved!

Easier solution is a ROUNDHOUSE KICK TO THE FACE!!!

Seriously, that was an awesome vehicle. Maybe the landscapes could be better, but the ME2 sequences with the hammerhead were to arcade gamey. That's the problem with all the "upgrades" they became stoopid.

[tractrpl]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It isn't the fans' "fault" that BioWare would rather remove a game element than fix it.

Quoted For Truth. 

The fans can only point out mistakes, more often than not.

Like the Mako. It sucked, basically, but the intention behind it was great. Instead of just tweaking the controls and the physics engine, perhaps putting a bit of work into a random environment generator, they decided to take it out completely. Not the fan's fault, that was the developer's decision. 

The amount of constructive feedback given after the ending fiasco is unprecedented. 

How widespread was this "Mako hating?" Were there constant complaints on the message boards regarding it like we have with the current endings? If that's the case, then this is absolutely the fans' fault. If it was only the occasional "I liked it, but could you have some better scenery? or Could we have some nicer boss fights in the mako? Then no, it's not your fault. But if you guys started a pattern of "OMG how horrible! What the F are you guys thinking? You TOTALLY RUINED my game with that STUPID MAKO", then yeah it's all your fault.

[tractrpl]

If IT is to be believed, then the endings is BW taking a jab back at us fans. Even me who never complained even once until now.

[Iwillbeback]

tractrpl wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It isn't the fans' "fault" that BioWare would rather remove a game element than fix it.

Quoted For Truth. 

The fans can only point out mistakes, more often than not.

Like the Mako. It sucked, basically, but the intention behind it was great. Instead of just tweaking the controls and the physics engine, perhaps putting a bit of work into a random environment generator, they decided to take it out completely. Not the fan's fault, that was the developer's decision. 

The amount of constructive feedback given after the ending fiasco is unprecedented. 

How widespread was this "Mako hating?" Were there constant complaints on the message boards regarding it like we have with the current endings? If that's the case, then this is absolutely the fans' fault. If it was only the occasional "I liked it, but could you have some better scenery? or Could we have some nicer boss fights in the mako? Then no, it's not your fault. But if you guys started a pattern of "OMG how horrible! What the F are you guys thinking? You TOTALLY RUINED my game with that STUPID MAKO", then yeah it's all your fault.

You're actually giving off an annoying vibe.
Nobody said "you ruined my game, the mako sucks"

[tractrpl]

I'm sorry if I'm giving an "annoying vibe", but the thought that this very community totally eliminated one of the most fun aspects of the game (mega weapons, exploring) makes me a bit upset. I'm told there was a HUGE backlash against the mako. I can scarcely believe it.

[PluralAces]

Bioware's decision to move away from the RPG elements to more of a shooter element was not because of the fans, that was EA's decision because they want to maximize profit and going from RPG to shooter would bring in more new cuustomers rather then having sales stay consistent with a dedicated RPG fan base

I did not become part of the forums until ME3 so I do not know about what people complained about in the past, but I thought Harbinger was the whole point of ME2 and would play an important part in ME3 as "the leader of the reapers" or something like that

Everything was fine with ME3 until the ending. According to some articles the ending was evened reviewed by other writers. But I am not going to rant about the ending, people can find those all over the internet.

I did not like the ammo and weapons system in ME1 so i am glad they switched that, i basically kept a notepad detailing what level ammo I had and all that stuff, so tthe switch was good IMO.

I had no problems with the Mako or the Hammerhead either could have stayed, but I think with the addition of multiplayer and Kinect functionality some things had to be removed or watered down, planet exploring and the ending among them.

I enjoyed the ME franchise up until the ending of 3, a better ending might have been just to have the marauder at the end kill you and the reapers win, there were some story plots in ME3 that didnt really make sense as it relates to the choices you made in 1 and 2 but I was willing to overlook that, the ending I cant overlook however, and to say that it is our fault that it is that bad is ridiculous.

[The Night Mammoth]

tractrpl wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It isn't the fans' "fault" that BioWare would rather remove a game element than fix it.

Quoted For Truth. 

The fans can only point out mistakes, more often than not.

Like the Mako. It sucked, basically, but the intention behind it was great. Instead of just tweaking the controls and the physics engine, perhaps putting a bit of work into a random environment generator, they decided to take it out completely. Not the fan's fault, that was the developer's decision. 

The amount of constructive feedback given after the ending fiasco is unprecedented. 

How widespread was this "Mako hating?" Were there constant complaints on the message boards regarding it like we have with the current endings? If that's the case, then this is absolutely the fans' fault. If it was only the occasional "I liked it, but could you have some better scenery? or Could we have some nicer boss fights in the mako? Then no, it's not your fault. But if you guys started a pattern of "OMG how horrible! What the F are you guys thinking? You TOTALLY RUINED my game with that STUPID MAKO", then yeah it's all your fault.

No, it was nothing like that. The basic prevalent opinion regarding the Mako was the controls were shoddy and the physics engine poor, the scenery was bland, and there was little incentive to actually explore because of it, since the rewards were largely pointless. The mandatory vehicle sections were marred by boring enemies and again, the shoddy controls and physics engine. 

No one ever thought it marred their entire experience and should be removed, that I was aware of, because it wasn't a major feature and wasn't important to the story. More importantly, people knew ME1 was going to have a bunch of sequels. 

[The Night Mammoth]

tractrpl wrote...

I'm sorry if I'm giving an "annoying vibe", but the thought that this very community totally eliminated one of the most fun aspects of the game (mega weapons, exploring) makes me a bit upset. I'm told there was a HUGE backlash against the mako. I can scarcely believe it.

There was, but it wasn't ever to get the feature removed entirely, and it certainly wasn't anything organized. 

[BDelacroix]

I didn't complain about those things. Sure I found the terminator boss a bit bizarre, but I let it go. The only think I didn't like about the Mako wasn't the exploration or the Mako itself, it was its strange physics. It was like driving a piece of foam over the mountains. It would bounce so high. Didn't complain about it anywhere.

I didn't mind the hammerhead at all, except it was either light on armor or there was no way to know how much armor it had which may have attributed to the perception that it was light on armor. Didn't complain about it anywhere.

[SC0TTYD00]

OP is right. People whined about the stuff in ME1 and ME2, they took it out and now they say "me1 was the best"

[Naranna]

This is Bioware's fault.  This is the third consecutive bioware game that has disapointed me.

Dragon Age 2
Bioware's attempt at making Dragon Age 2 more accessible to a wider audience by "streamlining" the experience eliminated all of the previous games depth, and thus it ruined the game for many long time Bioware fans.      

Star Wars The Old Republic
SWTOR is nothing more than a WOW clone with a Star Wars license, and about 1/6 of the depth of post New Game Enhancements Star Wars Galaxies.

Mass Effect 3
ME3 atrocious ending was merely another disappointment from the studio that I once considered the best in the industry.  It has completely crushed all of my desire to play through the series again, but more importantly it has forced me to question whether Bioware games are worth my time, which is something that I find truly shocking.
 

Modifié par Naranna, 16 avril 2012 - 02:00 .

[rfalzar]

Everything you mentioned, I'm fine with the fact that they change. I didn't mind the mako and didn't care if it was in or out of the game. I enjoyed the final boss fights but I don't care if there's one in there or not. People may have made fun of Harby and say he ruined the mysticism by no means did anybody ask for a complete omission of him in ME3. I could give a flying s**t about everything you mentioned (no offense because I do understand that the things they changed was due to criticism). I just want an ending. One that makes sense, and one with more options.

[MegumiAzusa]

Mordimor wrote...

We all sit here and whine and groan about how Bioware doesn't consider or listen to its fans enough, and that most of the problems with ME3 are because of that.

However, I think that the case is just the opposite; Bioware listens to us, and they listen to us too much.  Have any of us stopped to think that the ending we got, the absense of a final boss fight, and several other unfavorable changes made to the Mass Effect series could be directly attributed to us?

Think about it: countless people complained about the Mako, trash loot system and bland planetside exploration in ME1.  Lo and behold, all those things were taken out of ME2;  They replaced the loot system with an upgrade system and took out planetside exploration altogether in favor of short, shoot-em up sidequests.  They tried to introduce an improved version of the Mako and planetside exploration in the form of the Hammerhead, and people shot that down too.  And wouldn't ya know, the Hammerhead makes no appearance in ME3.  And now we are complaining that the series is too linear and action oriented and that it has abandoned its RPG roots.  Haha.

Now we have the subject of the absence of a final boss in ME3.  People are crying for Harbinger, wondering where he went and why he doesn't play a more important role in the game, and why we didn't fight him at the end of ME3.  He is not anywhere to be found because people complained about him in ME2!  They said he destroyed the sense of mysticism and awe in the Reapers, and his one liners became a joke among the community.  Likewise, people complained about the Saren/Sovereign confrontation in ME1 and the Human Reaper Larva in ME2.  There was so much negative feedback about all of this stuff.   

So why the hell are we so surprised that we don't have a final boss fight in ME3?!  Why are we wondering where Harbinger went?  We ****ed and moaned about Harbinger in ME2 and the final boss fights of both games, so Bioware took them out.  They listened to our feedback, and took the stuff out that we didn't like.  Bottom line.  They thought they were doing the right thing!  and now here we are ripping them a new hole and whining because these things are absent.  WE DID THIS TO OURSELVES. 

This could even be said about the ending; perhaps they were sick and tired of responding to fans' complaints and making so many changes to their creation because of negative fan feedback that they just threw up their hands and said, "to hell with it, we're doing it our way, and they can just deal with it."  If this is the case, the plan backfired, and it wasn't a good way to do things, but could you really blame them?

This is why I will have to agree with Ray's request for constructive criticism.  Most of us simply freak out and throw out insults about content we don't like, or make fun of it, and trash talk Bioware.  Think about what it must feel like as a developer to listen to that;  to know that your fans hate the content that you spent countless hours developing for them.  It probably feels like crap.  So I could totally see them just scrapping those concepts in future titles to avoid the same kind of fan backlash in the future.  It makes total sense.  However, if we were to offer constructive criticism, citing the problems with said content and stating HOW THOSE THINGS CAN BE IMPROVED, things would be different.  Maybe the series would have been more catered to our interests if we wouldn't be such whiny brats about everything.

Basically, my point is that we should stop pointing our fingers directly at Bioware and start thinking about how we, as fans, can offer feedback that is actually constructive and will attribute to improvement on a game/franchise rather than just further complicating or hindering it.  We need to be aware that what we say DOES matter, that they DO listen to us, and we need to be careful what we ask for because we will probably end up getting it.

This.
Same thing that destroyed Command and Conquer: devs listening.

[fainmaca]

I think OP needs to realise- we didn't complain about having a final boss or vehicular segments. We complained about them being done POORLY. If Bioware was going to take anything away from the feedback the fans sent their way, it was that they needed to improve those aspects, not chop them out entirely.

E.G. I put together one of my writing projects, and give it to someone to review/criticise. They come back and tell me that character X doesn't fit the genre or is inconsistent. What I don't do is rip out the chapters where this character features, blotting out every scene they feature in. No, what I do is I go back and change the character for something that works, maybe doing as little as tweaking some dialogue to fix the problem.

My point is, Bioware didn't need to remove the things we complained about. They just needed to work to make them better. If vehicle exploration had been balanced and had better controls, damn straight we'd love it! If the Reaper larva had been less Terminator and a little more Cthulhu, we'd be carrying that with us as the most epic scene of ME2 ever.

[marshkoala]

If you've played ME1 & 2, ME3 is almost a different game. You still have the characters you loved but the play was different.
More video scenes instead of dialog, dumbing down armor and weapon upgrades, I didn't feel as if I was in control of my Shepard as I was in ME1 & 2.
Adding the multi-player aspect also changed the game......I think EA's stamp was on this game to reach all kinds of players and not just RPG. IMO

[DamonD7]

I came to the franchise in early 2010, the upcoming hype about ME2 attracted me to take a look at ME1 first, so I totally missed the Mako backlash.

Which is a shame, because I also never had a problem with it. I liked bouncing that crazy thing up and down mountains and just liked being able to travel around planet-side like that.

[OMEGAlomaniac]

I complained about NONE of this. Infact ME1 was damn near perfect imo.

[ImperatorMortis]

I like OP's post. Its pissing off a lot of people.

Do I agree with the OP though? Somewhat, but that's mostly because I have a low opinion of humans in general, and see most people as whiny entitled losers.

[tiduspr]

For the record, I loved planet exploration and the mako, even if the controls were clumsy. Mass effect 2 was, indeed, a disappointment for me, but I had no time to offer feedback. I had very low exoextpectations for ME3 and was pleasantly surprised...until that awful ending. Which made me long for the days of ME1 again.

[The Protheans]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

I like OP's post. Its pissing off a lot of people.

Do I agree with the OP though? Somewhat, but that's mostly because I have a low opinion of humans in general, and see most people as whiny entitled losers.

I have a low opinion of you too.
You sound like the type guy who doesn't understand business and thinks everything should cost something.
Well I'm sorry to say I do stuff for free and I get stuff for free.

[LTKerr]

Is that some kind of weird gamer stockholm syndrome?

[phat0817]

I can't speak for anybody else but for me I loved me1 and me2. They did everything right with both of those games so I never came to complain on there forums about the previous games. So how is that my fault? Or millions others who don't speak up and are wondering why Bioware made such a terrible end to such a great series? You can't blame the fans man this is Biowares fault this is bed they made now they have to sleep in it.

Modifié par phat0817, 16 avril 2012 - 04:46 .

[zarnk567]

I liked ME 1 and ME 2.... ME 3 on the other hand....