317 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

kalle90 wrote...

I'm starting to doubt that. I was just watching Youtube video of some blogger who has raged about Capcom time after time. Now in the latest video he said Resident Evil 6 looks great and he has already pre-ordered it hoping it will be great and a turning point for Capcom.

When people who openly rant about something change their direction on a whim I don't think Bioware is in trouble either.

It does indeed as does Dragons Dogma. Question is will those other people who hate Capcom be as forgiving as that one?

Raging is not the same as boycotting. Raging is born of disapointment. Boycotting is born of no longer giving a crap.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 16 avril 2012 - 02:27 .

[thunderhawk862002]

kalle90 wrote...

I'm starting to doubt that. I was just watching Youtube video of some blogger who has raged about Capcom time after time. Now in the latest video he said Resident Evil 6 looks great and he has already pre-ordered it hoping it will be great and a turning point for Capcom.

When people who openly rant about something change their direction on a whim I don't think Bioware is in trouble either.

Yeah.  There is a good number of people that are weak willed and break their own little boycott.  Personaly I stopped supporting Capcom games since Dead Rising 2.  I cancelled my preorder of Okamiden and haven't bought anything new from them since then.  Capcom games are the worst to buy new when the ultimate edition is about 6 months to a year away.  Until Capcom changes its business practices, I will only buy their games used or rent them.

[kalle90]

BobSmith101 wrote...

kalle90 wrote...

I'm starting to doubt that. I was just watching Youtube video of some blogger who has raged about Capcom time after time. Now in the latest video he said Resident Evil 6 looks great and he has already pre-ordered it hoping it will be great and a turning point for Capcom.

When people who openly rant about something change their direction on a whim I don't think Bioware is in trouble either.

It does indeed as does Dragons Dogma. Question is will those other people who hate Capcom be as forgiving as that one?

Raging is not the same as boycotting. Raging is born of disapointment. Boycotting is born of no longer giving a crap.

It does, but I'm willing to bet that once the game is published there will once again be that rage of "They still have on-disc DLC! They still haven't done this and that!? Why? This was my last Capcom game ever!". I don't know if simple raging is going to be enough at this point when Capcom obviously couldn't care less what gamers say, so going "Halleluja, all is forgiven" every time an interesting game is even revealed seems mighty odd to me.

And the cycle can't be stopped.

Now I have to admit I'm also very interested in RE6, but I haven't bought Capcom games new since, err, Dead Rising 1? So I will just probably wait for used copy or the inevitable Gold edition so I get the DLC for "free"

[AkiKishi]

kalle90 wrote...
It does, but I'm willing to bet that once the game is published there will once again be that rage of "They still have on-disc DLC! They still haven't done this and that!? Why? This was my last Capcom game ever!". I don't know if simple raging is going to be enough at this point when Capcom obviously couldn't care less what gamers say, so going "Halleluja, all is forgiven" every time an interesting game is even revealed seems mighty odd to me.

And the cycle can't be stopped.

Now I have to admit I'm also very interested in RE6, but I haven't bought Capcom games new since, err, Dead Rising 1? So I will just probably wait for used copy or the inevitable Gold edition so I get the DLC for "free"

There will always be people who complain. What makes ME3 "unique" is you have so many people all complaining about the same thing. That's unheard of.

Dragons Dogma is set up for DLC without the game suffering in regards to content. Unless they end up DLCing classes or something

Resi 6 is a whole other ballgame than Resi:ORC.

I don't even remember the last Capcom game I bought. Did rent Asuras Wrath, DMC on crack actually pretty good. Rented ORC too, again not a disaster but some really annoying bugs. Nice difficulty though, enjoyed that part.

[Gulaman]

Personally I think EA is more at fault. They wanted the game released early and that's why the ending was rushed. Bioware has a decent record in producing satisfying endings to their games. Kotor, Jade Empire, DA:O and ME1 and ME2 all end nicely and I don't think anybody had any complaints.
That's why the baffling end to ME3 is all the more confusing. Bioware can clearly do a lot better. Why didn't they? Pressure from TPTB I think...

[XTR3M3]

yep, I can't remember the last time I bought anything capcom. Sadly, with this latest ending and them bunkering down ....well, I will just have to see whether this extended cut is going to be the last nail in their coffin or an IV in their arm.

It still makes me laugh that PR trolls still feel the need to try and debunk the actual quantity of how many of us thought the ending sucked. They attack other people's numbers while providing no concrete proof to the contrary. I say a majority didn't like it and/or thought it was at least weak and disappointing. Prove me wrong with stats from trusted sources. not sales or pre-sales but from polls that say a majority liked the ending. If you can't, you are just guessing and PR trolling.

Here are polls on the the game creator's own site, the BSN....
http://social.biowar...606/polls/28989

oddly enough, I didn't see any positive result polls on the first 2 pages of my google search which was "BSN ending poll"
I will end with this....

Modifié par XTR3M3, 16 avril 2012 - 03:41 .

[thunderhawk862002]

XTR3M3 wrote...

yep, I can't remember the last time I bought anything capcom. Sadly, with this latest ending and them bunkering down ....well, I will just have to see whether this extended cut is going to be the last nail in their coffin or an IV in their arm.

It still makes me laugh that PR trolls still feel the need to try and debunk the actual quantity of how many of us thought the ending sucked. They attack other people's numbers while providing no concrete proof to the contrary. I say a majority didn't like it and/or thought it was at least weak and disappointing. Prove me wrong with stats from trusted sources. not sales or pre-sales but from polls that say a majority liked the ending. If you can't, you are just guessing and PR trolling.

Yeah.  There's no way of knowing how many people dislike vs. like the endings.  However, it was a large enough reaction for them to spend money to create free DLC than working on their paid content DLC.  

[KDD-0063]

If people are satisfied about the ending they will still talk. About other memorable things in the game. For example, Rannoch, Tuchanka, or characters like Mordin, Legion and Samara. If you go to DAO's or ME2's campaign forum, you will see a lot of hundred-page or even thousand-page threads about Loghain, Bhelen, Alistair, Miranda, Thane and etc.

The fact that the forum is dominated by ending threads shows that people's memory about the ending is overwhelming; in that it's the first thing they want to talk about, in that the other things become unimportant.

And then if those threads are overwhelmingly negative, it points out problems.

The fact that people on the ME3 campaign forum almost only talk about the ending, that threads about other parts of the game are so few in number is a big problem. People dislike the ending so much that they don't want to talk about other parts of the game.

Now, maybe if the threads about the ending are overwhelmingly negative, but only a few threads talk about the ending and the rest talk about a lot of other things, that could be about the so called vocal minorities, that could be that the ending is only controversial.

Modifié par KDD-0063, 16 avril 2012 - 03:27 .

[Aquilas]

"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." Mark Twain popularized this quote; he attributed it to Benjamin Disraeli.  Basically, it means the person analyzing data can get any result they want from the numbers.

Yet organizations continue to commission polls. Here's a recent survey:

ABC News-Washington Post Poll

Note the methodology: the pollsters used a random, national telephone survey of 1,103 adults to represent an entire nation.  Yes, those surveys are built using validated statistical sampling tools and are analyzed the same way, but the fact remains the pollsters used a very small sample size to represent a very large group.

So when people say, “Heh, only 60K-80K people responded to polls, contributed to charity, etc.” they’re
technically correct.  But those numbers represent many fans—consumers—who won’t say anything at all publicly.  But they will speak volumes to their friends, families, loved ones, etc.  Bad word of mouth will slash sales more effectively than any charity campaign. 

EA and BioWare know this.  That’s why they’re paying lip service to the fans with the “We’re listening” campaign and are throwing us the “Extended Cut” bone.  But it’s future ME3 sales and DA3 sales that will clearly demonstrate how dissatisfied consumers are.  I’ll be watching April ME3 sales and eventual DA3 sales with great interest. 

Modifié par Aquilas, 16 avril 2012 - 04:38 .

[XTR3M3]

I see the validaty in your comments Aquilas....
I think even a master of BS and spin would have problems getting a result of something different than "the ending sucked" out of this poll....social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989

[kbct]

KDD-0063 wrote...

If people are satisfied about the ending they will still talk. About other memorable things in the game. For example, Rannoch, Tuchanka, or characters like Mordin, Legion and Samara. If you go to DAO's or ME2's campaign forum, you will see a lot of hundred-page or even thousand-page threads about Loghain, Bhelen, Alistair, Miranda, Thane and etc.

The fact that the forum is dominated by ending threads shows that people's memory about the ending is overwhelming; in that it's the first thing they want to talk about, in that the other things become unimportant.

And then if those threads are overwhelmingly negative, it points out problems.

The fact that people on the ME3 campaign forum almost only talk about the ending, that threads about other parts of the game are so few in number is a big problem. People dislike the ending so much that they don't want to talk about other parts of the game.

Now, maybe if the threads about the ending are overwhelmingly negative, but only a few threads talk about the ending and the rest talk about a lot of other things, that could be about the so called vocal minorities, that could be that the ending is only controversial.

Good points. You can feel the forum dynamic, but it's hard to measure it.

I agree, if people are satisfied, people will talk. As one example, over 80% liked ME2:

http://social.biowar...093/polls/1659/

It also shows in reviews. The Hunger Games has 6000+ reviews and a 4.5 out of 5 star rating:

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/0439023521

[Aquilas]

XTR3M3 wrote...

I see the validaty in your comments Aquilas....
I think even a master of BS and spin would have problems getting a result of something different than "the ending sucked" out of this poll....social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989

Exactly.  The quote I referenced applies to both the defenders and the re-takers.  Sales figures--the bottom line is the bottom line--are the only statistics that really matter.  EA and BioWare are taking pre-emptive action, hoping to bolster those sales figures.  Time will tell how successful they are.

Modifié par Aquilas, 16 avril 2012 - 07:08 .

[Dormiglione]

aLucidMind wrote...

To be fair, neither side can really say exactly how many people liked or disliked the ending since the vast majority will not be posting on the internet one way or the other. So while claiming "millions of people" is wrong, it is just as incorrect to say that there aren't even a quarter of one-million who dislike the ending. However, it is easier to see most people disliking the ending than liking it due to the sheer number of people complaining and how much attention this has gotten.

I agree with that.

Nobody can say how many people disliked and complained and how many disliked the ending and went over it. Myself i dont like the ending but i accepted it. I have no problem with shepards sacrifize, i have a problem with the starchild who makes no sense.

Bioware on thin ice? No, i wouldnt say that. The multiplayer has a lot people playing. The singleplayer campaign is very good, ending apart.

[Getorex]

My father and my sister are (were) fans of the entire ME series...because of me. I pointed them to the game back before ME2 came out. They have played and replayed 1 and 2 multiple times, same as me. They do NOT post on the interweb. They do NOT do forums, polls, etc. They hate the ending every bit as much as I do and they come by this opinion honestly: by playing the series, caring about the series, story, characters, and then getting the rug pulled out at the end of ME3 with a 100% inexplicable and ridiculous (nay, STOOPID) pile of crap sitting there ruining the entire cake.

So there's me, an intertoob user, a forum user from way back, hating the ending and posting that hate in game reviews, in polls, in posts here and there's them, the silent 2/3s of my own sample who hate the ending just as much. I accurately, as a sample of the population, represent their opinions (the "silent majority"). That is how statistical sampling works. You don't need to get EVERYONE'S input, just a representative sample. It is accurate. Most people hate the ending. Full stop.

[AJRimmsey]

Getorex wrote...

My father and my sister are (were) fans of the entire ME series...because of me. I pointed them to the game back before ME2 came out. They have played and replayed 1 and 2 multiple times, same as me. They do NOT post on the interweb. They do NOT do forums, polls, etc. They hate the ending every bit as much as I do and they come by this opinion honestly: by playing the series, caring about the series, story, characters, and then getting the rug pulled out at the end of ME3 with a 100% inexplicable and ridiculous (nay, STOOPID) pile of crap sitting there ruining the entire cake.

So there's me, an intertoob user, a forum user from way back, hating the ending and posting that hate in game reviews, in polls, in posts here and there's them, the silent 2/3s of my own sample who hate the ending just as much. I accurately, as a sample of the population, represent their opinions (the "silent majority"). That is how statistical sampling works. You don't need to get EVERYONE'S input, just a representative sample. It is accurate. Most people hate the ending. Full stop.

so you just need you,your dad and your sister to be able to state that "most everyone" hates the ending ?

there are people who have decades of experience and education who could have simply used that equation on so many things.

steven hawking could have saved so much time by simply saying "black holes actually exist,because my sister and dad said so".

soon we will head for other star systems in old skodas fuelled by pig poop,catapulted into the stratosphere by slings made from old bra straps as long as i can convince my sister and dad its possible.

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 16 avril 2012 - 06:19 .

[Flammenpanzer]

Dridengx wrote...

Well for one.. there isn't millions of fans who didn't like the ending, it wasn't even a quarter of a million. Many people are happy with ME3. So your argument is broken. If a few thousand get mad, move on, you can't force their hands and demand a company to do what you want.. you take it or leave it.

Actually, I am pretty sure it would be about a million, if you were to project it, as not everyone is on BSN.

Best way to know for sure would be to have a Mass Effect 3 Poll in the end of the game, rather than the request for you to buy DLC.

haha

[kbct]

AJRimmsey wrote...

Getorex wrote...

My father and my sister are (were) fans of the entire ME series...because of me. I pointed them to the game back before ME2 came out. They have played and replayed 1 and 2 multiple times, same as me. They do NOT post on the interweb. They do NOT do forums, polls, etc. They hate the ending every bit as much as I do and they come by this opinion honestly: by playing the series, caring about the series, story, characters, and then getting the rug pulled out at the end of ME3 with a 100% inexplicable and ridiculous (nay, STOOPID) pile of crap sitting there ruining the entire cake.

So there's me, an intertoob user, a forum user from way back, hating the ending and posting that hate in game reviews, in polls, in posts here and there's them, the silent 2/3s of my own sample who hate the ending just as much. I accurately, as a sample of the population, represent their opinions (the "silent majority"). That is how statistical sampling works. You don't need to get EVERYONE'S input, just a representative sample. It is accurate. Most people hate the ending. Full stop.

so you just need you,your dad and your sister to be able to state that "most everyone" hates the ending ?

Are you deliberately trying to be dense? He is providing anecdotal evidence. Here is one more from today:

http://social.biowar...443834#11444577

I've seen hundreds of similar posts. I'm sure you have too. Lurkers have said the same thing in the same ratios as well.

Anecdotal evidence like the views of our friends or family or the copies of used ME3 on Gamestop shelves is not real evidence, but it is interesting to see that it confirms the polls, reviews, and media attention.

Where are all the posts describing how all their friends liked the ending? It would be nice to occasionally hear stories from people that don't post here often to say all their friends liked the ending. And no, I'm not talking about the ten pro-enders here and their friends. I'm talking about people that don't post here often. Point to posts like I just did.

[TheRealJayDee]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Oh, I also found it amusing that I have found that most people with "Shepard Deserves Better Fans" signatures to be the most pompous, idiotic and ill-informed people on the BSN.

Yeah, sorry, but after reading this thread alone it's hard not to agree with this.

[Sanunes]

Modifié par Sanunes, 16 avril 2012 - 07:54 .

[translationninja]

Wow, another clear-cut thread with the "there is no controversy and only a vocal minority of a few entitled nerds don't like it" opinion-maker brigade hard at work, roflmao...

PS edited in:

Please, oh enlightened opinion makers, indulge me, since BioWare/EA have confirmed in their last marketing email that ME3 has "created a fan reaction like never before in the history of the medium", certainly you can point me to a site, a facebook group, ANYTHING, where thousands over thousands of people just RAAAAAAAAVE about the ending, no?

I guess you can't. Because first and foremost you have proven you either don't have the slightest ****g clue about statistics and sampling or you are being deliberately dense.

Move along, nothing to see here but the same 5 or 6 "you're all wahwah-babies" propaganda mongers.

Everything for the appearance that there isn't a consensus, amirite?

Modifié par translationninja, 16 avril 2012 - 08:08 .

[XqctaX]

OH look its bioware forum defence members number 1 and 2

HenchxNarf and Dridengx

all your claims have been dissmissed over and over.
please change your pics again and try to blend in with the other users

[Platysaur]

This community is ruining Bioware, don't you ignorant idiots see? It is actually YOU'RE fault, I'm sick of people banging on Bioware when they don't realize the brought it apon themselves.

[translationninja]

Platysaur wrote...

This community is ruining Bioware, don't you ignorant idiots see? It is actually YOU'RE fault, I'm sick of people banging on Bioware when they don't realize the brought it apon themselves.

Please do elaborate, there wasn't much point to your statement except vulgar insult. Maybe you want to talk about it?

[Platysaur]

translationninja wrote...

Platysaur wrote...

This community is ruining Bioware, don't you ignorant idiots see? It is actually YOU'RE fault, I'm sick of people banging on Bioware when they don't realize the brought it apon themselves.

Please do elaborate, there wasn't much point to your statement except vulgar insult. Maybe you want to talk about it?

Well, you are an example. You are trying to act all smug, which is one thing. I've not once met more than 5 good people on this forums. And by messing up the reputation of Bioware, I think any person could see:

Complaining about the ending (including filing it to some federal place)
Boycott
Complaining, so much complaining

You guys try to make a game that everyone will like, hm? Or write a good ending?