317 réponses à ce sujet

[Ajx-]

Too much heat here.

I just want to say, that not one of my friends liked the ending. Some have already traded it back in too. Also, I'm the only one who posts here. For those of you claiming the BSN polls are misrepresentig the general consensus, you are wrong. I feel that if anything, the 10-20% who -liked- it are die hard fans. I would reckon the people indfferent to the ending out number those who liked it.

Not one gamer friend I've talked to liked it. Not even the ones who were new comers to the franchise liked it. Not even the guy at gamestop liked it. And his job is to get me to buy games. Nobody. Nadda.

[AlanC9]

Ajx- wrote...
I would reckon the people indfferent to the ending out number those who liked it. 

Oh, absolutely. Is anyone arguing that there's a silent majority out there which actually likes the ending? I thought the argument is that most people think the ending is kinda weak but not a big deal.

(It's a bit self-serving for me to argue that myself, since I'm personally with Team Meh.)

[Nicodemus]

There are lies, damned lies and statistics. As the old saying goes.

The trouble is you need the statistics to tell you if you are doing something right. No poll is going to be 100% correct because it depends on the question asked, and then depends on who responds to the poll.

From all the various polls I have seen it seems that the endings are quite rightly detested. Those who defend the endings either haven't bothered to respond or are just not as well organised as those who don't. It doesn't make the results right or wrong, it just makes it clear that there is something wrong and that Bioware needed to respond.

The arguing between the Retakers and the Defenders ignores the silent majority, you know, those who say nothing and who are more likely to vote with their wallets. Those are the people Bioware really needs to appease, not the Retakers or the Defenders but the silent majority, because if they are annoyed with the endings they aren't going to make a fuss about it they'll just move on and not buy the next ME game that happens to appear in the future.

[XTR3M3]

Ajx- wrote...

Too much heat here.

I just want to say, that not one of my friends liked the ending. Some have already traded it back in too. Also, I'm the only one who posts here. For those of you claiming the BSN polls are misrepresentig the general consensus, you are wrong. I feel that if anything, the 10-20% who -liked- it are die hard fans. I would reckon the people indfferent to the ending out number those who liked it.

Not one gamer friend I've talked to liked it. Not even the ones who were new comers to the franchise liked it. Not even the guy at gamestop liked it. And his job is to get me to buy games. Nobody. Nadda.

^^
that pretty much about sums up my experience with it. I will say that the "10-20%" that they state like it.....well, I have yet to run into one of those people in real life. The most common thing I heard was "disappointing".

I actually have one friend that after talking to me and looking at the gamer feedback is refusing to play the end mission until the EC DLC comes out. He still is hoping against hope BioWare can redeem themselves.

[kbct]

Slidell505 wrote...

You want real math? 66,000 people disliked the ending, as shown by a poll. Other polls, like the CVG and Facebook poll have a similar rating (IE dissapointment being the strong majority) though there are less votes. It's generally accepted that only one out of twenty six unsatisfied customers complain. What's 26 x 66,000? 1,716,000, which keeps the disapproval rating at the same we've seen in the three polls I've mentioned.

http://www.customers...rvice-facts.htm 

Sorce on the 1/26, third bulletpoint.

I like your approach to this problem. We can bypass statistics and instead use a customer service multiplier. aLucidMind took the same approach in this thread:

aLucidMind wrote...

Considering the game has sold around two million, 200,000 people is significant. Especially when you take into account that for every person that does complain, there are 29 who feel the same way but stay quiet. This is a fact everyone in customer service gets slammed over the head with by their bosses at times lol. If those statistics are true, then you have a percentage of fans much more significant than a "mere" 200,000. This doesn't negate the "90% who are happy stay silent" statistic, it just shows that there are a lot more variables to consider lol.

The question simply becomes what is the number of people that expressed dissatisfaction over the ending and what is the multiplier. Simple. Even if you lower the number and lower the multiplier the numbers and percentages are significant - some would even say a... majority.

Anyone have a problem with this?

[AJRimmsey]

Nicodemus wrote...

There are lies, damned lies and statistics. As the old saying goes.

The trouble is you need the statistics to tell you if you are doing something right. No poll is going to be 100% correct because it depends on the question asked, and then depends on who responds to the poll.

From all the various polls I have seen it seems that the endings are quite rightly detested. Those who defend the endings either haven't bothered to respond or are just not as well organised as those who don't. It doesn't make the results right or wrong, it just makes it clear that there is something wrong and that Bioware needed to respond.

The arguing between the Retakers and the Defenders ignores the silent majority, you know, those who say nothing and who are more likely to vote with their wallets. Those are the people Bioware really needs to appease, not the Retakers or the Defenders but the silent majority, because if they are annoyed with the endings they aren't going to make a fuss about it they'll just move on and not buy the next ME game that happens to appear in the future.

so true
the only really unbiased group are the silent majority.

and these are the only ones who are actually pandered to,as they only appear in the sales figures which we will never see.

if they are en masse the biggest number they will stand out like a sore thumb in the sales.

and its them who will dictate if we see another ME game.

vive la silent majority

[XTR3M3]

kbct wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

You want real math? 66,000 people disliked the ending, as shown by a poll. Other polls, like the CVG and Facebook poll have a similar rating (IE dissapointment being the strong majority) though there are less votes. It's generally accepted that only one out of twenty six unsatisfied customers complain. What's 26 x 66,000? 1,716,000, which keeps the disapproval rating at the same we've seen in the three polls I've mentioned.

http://www.customers...rvice-facts.htm 

Sorce on the 1/26, third bulletpoint.

I like your approach to this problem. We can bypass statistics and instead use a customer service multiplier. aLucidMind took the same approach in this thread:

aLucidMind wrote...

Considering the game has sold around two million, 200,000 people is significant. Especially when you take into account that for every person that does complain, there are 29 who feel the same way but stay quiet. This is a fact everyone in customer service gets slammed over the head with by their bosses at times lol. If those statistics are true, then you have a percentage of fans much more significant than a "mere" 200,000. This doesn't negate the "90% who are happy stay silent" statistic, it just shows that there are a lot more variables to consider lol.

The question simply becomes what is the number of people that expressed dissatisfaction over the ending and what is the multiplier. Simple. Even if you lower the number and lower the multiplier the numbers and percentages are significant - some would even say a... majority.

Anyone have a problem with this?

What is wrong with you? You know you can't just come in here with fact based logic. That is against the rules. You have to deflect attention from facts while trying to belittle the person you disagree with while providing no facts of your own in an attempt to start a flame war and get the thread closed by a moderator.....DOH! oh wait, that is out of the PR troll handbook...sorry, my bad. Please continue presenting your facts sir.

[kbct]

aryon69 wrote...

kbct wrote.

Where are all the posts describing how all their friends liked the ending? It would be nice to occasionally hear stories from people that don't post here often to say all their friends liked the ending. And no, I'm not talking about the ten pro-enders here and their friends. I'm talking about people that don't post here often. Point to posts like I just did.

This doesn't really answer your post but thought I would share what I have seen with my own eyes.  I have 4 work friends that have finished ME3 and all but one has played all 3 games.  My wife, sister-in-law, family friend and his wife have all finished ME3 and played all 3 games.  7 of them have opinions that range from dislike to hate the ending.  The other 1 told me he didn't like nor dislike the ending but that RPG's are not his thing but FPS are and that was the reason to play ME3.  Also he was the one that didn't play ME1 though not sure that really matters.  This is my gamer peer group and counting me that is 8 out of 9 that are not happy with the ending. 

I will say this that the reasons for disliking the ending varied.  Some did want and expected the rainbows and bunnies kind of happy ending.  A few of us saw the vast amount of plotholes and sudden shift in the story and the others just bought into all the "promises" that were made to us fans (me).  The final question I asked each of them is would they recommend ME3 to another and 4 said they would but only if it can be got for cheap.  The other 4 was a quick and strong no.  I do know of 3 people who were on the fence too buy or not to buy before that have turned away from the game.  I don't know anyone that is bought the game after day 1.

Thanks. Yes, it confirms the polls, reviews, and media attention that the dissatisfaction goes well beyond BSN.

Again, anyone besides the 10 pro-enders here (and me even though I thought the ending sucked and got info from outside BSN) that want to share stories of opinions outside of BSN?

Modifié par kbct, 16 avril 2012 - 10:59 .

[Ajx-]

I'm not sure how opinions have drifted. But some who supports the ending earlier in thr thread claimed skewed statistics. I'm still in the disappointment boat but I'd love to see how many people have lost interest in this issue. In light of how it's been handled, how it won't change, and how long it will take. I'm feeling like I'm being dragged along with free DLC but being on the ps3 I've been unable to participate in events and would have bought on another platform (or not at all) in hindsight. I really hope the extended edition satisfies the fan base. I hope all the issues with the game get addressed. But as of now, I'm really just following BSN to see how the controversy unfolds and to see how this effects the industry in general. Not because I want or care for fixed/new content. I think with each passing day brand loyalty shrinks and more people don't care anymore...

[AJRimmsey]

Ajx- wrote...

I'm not sure how opinions have drifted. But some who supports the ending earlier in thr thread claimed skewed statistics. I'm still in the disappointment boat but I'd love to see how many people have lost interest in this issue. In light of how it's been handled, how it won't change, and how long it will take. I'm feeling like I'm being dragged along with free DLC but being on the ps3 I've been unable to participate in events and would have bought on another platform (or not at all) in hindsight. I really hope the extended edition satisfies the fan base. I hope all the issues with the game get addressed. But as of now, I'm really just following BSN to see how the controversy unfolds and to see how this effects the industry in general. Not because I want or care for fixed/new content. I think with each passing day brand loyalty shrinks and more people don't care anymore...

just ignore the"statistics" as people are just using that word to try and force thier opinion on others.
statistics are the tool of the politician,and we all know how honest they are

stick with your own opinion.

extended will be what you want it to be,if you over think it,no matter what comes wont be what you expected,just play it for what it is...a game.
the minute it becomes more than just entertainment you will lose any fun you used to get from gaming.

i for one dont consider myself loyal to anything but my direct family,i just look at it as a game dev creating games.

[kbct]

XTR3M3 wrote...

kbct wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

You want real math? 66,000 people disliked the ending, as shown by a poll. Other polls, like the CVG and Facebook poll have a similar rating (IE dissapointment being the strong majority) though there are less votes. It's generally accepted that only one out of twenty six unsatisfied customers complain. What's 26 x 66,000? 1,716,000, which keeps the disapproval rating at the same we've seen in the three polls I've mentioned.

http://www.customers...rvice-facts.htm 

Sorce on the 1/26, third bulletpoint.

I like your approach to this problem. We can bypass statistics and instead use a customer service multiplier. aLucidMind took the same approach in this thread:

aLucidMind wrote...

Considering the game has sold around two million, 200,000 people is significant. Especially when you take into account that for every person that does complain, there are 29 who feel the same way but stay quiet. This is a fact everyone in customer service gets slammed over the head with by their bosses at times lol. If those statistics are true, then you have a percentage of fans much more significant than a "mere" 200,000. This doesn't negate the "90% who are happy stay silent" statistic, it just shows that there are a lot more variables to consider lol.

The question simply becomes what is the number of people that expressed dissatisfaction over the ending and what is the multiplier. Simple. Even if you lower the number and lower the multiplier the numbers and percentages are significant - some would even say a... majority.

Anyone have a problem with this?

What is wrong with you? You know you can't just come in here with fact based logic. That is against the rules. You have to deflect attention from facts while trying to belittle the person you disagree with while providing no facts of your own in an attempt to start a flame war and get the thread closed by a moderator.....DOH! oh wait, that is out of the PR troll handbook...sorry, my bad. Please continue presenting your facts sir.

Heh, I just want the pro-enders to shoot it down. They discount all evidence and all methods of inferring information about a population. The huge, majorly lopsided polls? No good. The sheer number of user reviews and the low scores? No good. The most non-gaming global media attention ever for a game? No good.

And they won't even consider anecdotal evidence or the forum dynamic that keeps talking about the ending. That's dismissed before it begins.

Of course, they have no evidence to present on their behalf.

They simply don't want to admit the majority of people who experienced the ending, didn't like it. Why? I'm sure they have a logical reason for it...

[Gatt9]

AJRimmsey wrote...

Ajx- wrote...

I'm not sure how opinions have drifted. But some who supports the ending earlier in thr thread claimed skewed statistics. I'm still in the disappointment boat but I'd love to see how many people have lost interest in this issue. In light of how it's been handled, how it won't change, and how long it will take. I'm feeling like I'm being dragged along with free DLC but being on the ps3 I've been unable to participate in events and would have bought on another platform (or not at all) in hindsight. I really hope the extended edition satisfies the fan base. I hope all the issues with the game get addressed. But as of now, I'm really just following BSN to see how the controversy unfolds and to see how this effects the industry in general. Not because I want or care for fixed/new content. I think with each passing day brand loyalty shrinks and more people don't care anymore...

just ignore the"statistics" as people are just using that word to try and force thier opinion on others.
statistics are the tool of the politician,and we all know how honest they are

stick with your own opinion.

extended will be what you want it to be,if you over think it,no matter what comes wont be what you expected,just play it for what it is...a game.
the minute it becomes more than just entertainment you will lose any fun you used to get from gaming.

i for one dont consider myself loyal to anything but my direct family,i just look at it as a game dev creating games.

Statistically,  if I flip a coin,  it will work out to coming out heads 1:2 times.  Statistically,  if I buy a lottery ticket,  I'm not likely to win.  Statistically,  a plane is safer than a car.  Statistically,  one of the biggest performance boosts to computing is a increase in branch prediction,  which is done through statistics.

Statistics are quite informative,  people are deceptive.  If you have the full sample size to analyze yourself,  as any statistics should include,  it's safe.

The ironic part is,  I'd be willing to bet a significant number of people who complain about statistics in instances like this,  will go and pour over them to build their fantasy football league.

[AJRimmsey]

Gatt9 wrote...

Statistics are quite informative,  people are deceptive.

.

again true

as whoever uses statistics is simply using them for selfish reasons.

the one thing that stands out is the airplane vs car statistics,it actually avoids the idea that 1 car vs 1 plane crashing usually ends up with a really bad number of deaths count.

and as its airlines providing that statistic,i tend to veer towards disbelief.

[kbct]

Nicodemus wrote...

The arguing between the Retakers and the Defenders ignores the silent majority, you know, those who say nothing and who are more likely to vote with their wallets.

Well, the sales estimates for Xbox (the largest platform) in the US (the largest market) have dropped below ME2 sales on a weekly basis for the last three weeks (according to VGC - that revised their estimates to fit NPD).

That's voting with your wallet, right? And that is even with all the discounts we've seen at Amazon, Best Buy, Walmart, Ebay, etc.

Modifié par kbct, 16 avril 2012 - 11:22 .

[Kastrenzo]

Vasarkian wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

Well for one.. there isn't millions of fans who didn't like the ending, it wasn't even a quarter of a million. Many people are happy with ME3. So your argument is broken. If a few thousand get mad, move on, you can't force their hands and demand a company to do what you want.. you take it or leave it.

To be honest even BioWare has admitted that they realize the vocal minority on the forums represent a very large group of potentially hundreds of thousands. Their pr departments at least know something about proper statistical analysis.

So there's really no way to determine how many people actually are on our side and aren't.

I don't understand how it can go from a 90% Majority to a "Vocal Minority"

Practically every person who has been able to connect to the internet has been unhappy with the game on a major level at least in some way.

[XTR3M3]

yep just ignore the statistics like this poll (below) that is the opinions of a lot of members here at the BSN both pro-enders and anti-enders. Their opinions don't matter. Polls like this aren't to try and force anyone's opinions to change, they are just to prove a point when PR trolls call us the "silent minority" or say our opinions are wrong or don't matter.

anyway Ajx, here is the poll. form your own opinion about what it says.
social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989
you are also welcome to like, hate, be apathetic to, whatever, the ending of ME3. you are entitled to your own opinion. I would disagree with others that try and discount polling simply because the polls don't agree with them. I would be willing to bet they would be quoting stuff to support polling if they agreed with the polling results.

I bet even the slickest politician with a doctorate in BS spin would have trouble making those results in that poll I linked say something other than what they look like right out in the open. demonizing the polling process itself is a lame way to try and explain away their findings.

EDIT lol had to change "silent majority" to "silent minority" I believe that we are the majority so a Freudian slip was bound to occur sooner or later.

Modifié par XTR3M3, 16 avril 2012 - 11:32 .

[AJRimmsey]

Kastrenzo wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

Well for one.. there isn't millions of fans who didn't like the ending, it wasn't even a quarter of a million. Many people are happy with ME3. So your argument is broken. If a few thousand get mad, move on, you can't force their hands and demand a company to do what you want.. you take it or leave it.

To be honest even BioWare has admitted that they realize the vocal minority on the forums represent a very large group of potentially hundreds of thousands. Their pr departments at least know something about proper statistical analysis.

So there's really no way to determine how many people actually are on our side and aren't.

I don't understand how it can go from a 90% Majority to a "Vocal Minority"

Practically every person who has been able to connect to the internet has been unhappy with the game on a major level at least in some way.

and if thats true then practically every person who didnt connect to the internet is totally happy with the game.

EA says only 20% register on the forum when buying thier games.

personally i doubt that,
but EA would have the figures for sales vs forum members,

i would need to see those figures to be sure they were telling the truth.

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 16 avril 2012 - 11:30 .

[harrier25699]

Dridengx wrote...

 a mere 52,000 to 200,000 people based on groups, facebook, twitter, BSN polls, tumblr etc.

There's nothing 'mere' about 52,000 letters of complaint, which is essentially what vote and posts on these forums are.

Modifié par harrier25699, 16 avril 2012 - 11:32 .

[kbct]

AJRimmsey wrote...

just ignore the"statistics" as people are just using that word to try and force thier opinion on others.
statistics are the tool of the politician,and we all know how honest they are

stick with your own opinion.

HAHA! C'mon, AJRimmsey!

Seriously? Oh really? WTFBBQ?

[XqctaX]

kbct wrote...


Heh, I just want the pro-bioware to shoot it down. They discount all evidence and all methods of inferring information about a population. The huge, majorly lopsided polls? No good. The sheer number of user reviews and the low scores? No good. The most non-gaming global media attention ever for a game? No good.

And they won't even consider anecdotal evidence or the forum dynamic that keeps talking about the ending. That's dismissed before it begins.

Of course, they have no evidence to present on their behalf.

They simply don't want to admit the majority of people who experienced the ending, didn't like it. Why? I'm sure they have a logical reason for it...

fixed it for you, and no i couldnt help it lol `25R

[TheGreenAlloy]

Dridengx wrote...

Well for one.. there isn't millions of fans who didn't like the ending, it wasn't even a quarter of a million. Many people are happy with ME3. So your argument is broken. If a few thousand get mad, move on, you can't force their hands and demand a company to do what you want.. you take it or leave it.

How do you know? Let's turn it around. For one, there isn't millions of fans who liked the ending. Many people are dissatisifed with ME3. So your argument is broken. Every poll shows over-whelming majority in favour of changing the ending.

[AJRimmsey]

harrier25699 wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

 a mere 52,000 to 200,000 people based on groups, facebook, twitter, BSN polls, tumblr etc.

There's nothing 'mere' about 52,000 letters of complaint, which is essentially what vote and posts on these forums are.

he might be saying that due to the rigging of polls that 52,000 would be 13,000 if those who voted multiple time only did it 4 times.
can only say 4 because thats what was tested by members here,it could be higher or lower.

maybe if they has actually written letters and posted them bioware might have decided to offer more endings etc.
thousands of letters through the door would have made a huge impact,as they wouldnt be able to get into work without a snow plough:P

[kbct]

AJRimmsey wrote...

he might be saying that due to the rigging of polls that 52,000 would be 13,000 if those who voted multiple time only did it 4 times.

There are 60,000+ (am I right?) Facebook members against the ending too. Probably quadruple counted, right?

You need more help in this thread. You're better in a support role.

Go ahead and demonstrate how any poll here can be rigged. Change this poll from a majority to a minority:

http://social.biowar...093/polls/1659/

Anyone who thinks the polls can be rigged, prove it! Just this one time. Show us that it can be done. We are waiting and watching.

[Sevorast]

Dridengx wrote...

Well for one.. there isn't millions of fans who didn't like the ending, it wasn't even a quarter of a million. Many people are happy with ME3. So your argument is broken. If a few thousand get mad, move on, you can't force their hands and demand a company to do what you want.. you take it or leave it.

This guy quoted himself in his forum signature... why would anyone try to debate anything with him after having seen that?

I just wish ignoring someone/blocking someone would hide the garbage they post in every thread on the forum.

[XTR3M3]

sooooo....according to AJ's "logic", the almost 66K people that voted in this poll (below) have at least 4 accounts and have voted on the BSN here 4 times at least?
http://social.biowar...606/polls/28989
even if they somehow did, it is still 10 times higher than the people that voted that they liked it (fine as it is)....and that is if they didn't vote 4 times as well otherwise the percentages would track the same.

Do you have proof that ANY of them have more than one account and voted more than once to try and skew the results? I only have 1 BSN account. You are welcome to check. My account is the only one from my IP address even though my son plays too. He didn't want to make an account.

Geez....I sometimes sit here and wonder if some of these people actually believe the drivel they post in an attempt to discredit our opinion.

Modifié par XTR3M3, 17 avril 2012 - 12:22 .