317 réponses à ce sujet

[Vasarkian]

As I said, so long as they ignore, skew, and lie about the facts or situations they should not be responded to and merely ignored. They will complain about this, call us names or insinuate we are the ones lying, but when you look at the actual facts instead of skewing, misinterpreting, lying, or ignoring them.. they are on our side and anyone who will look at said facts without the bias of their lies... will see that.

I'm done for today.

[l7986]

Dridengx wrote...

Well for one.. there isn't millions of fans who didn't like the ending, it wasn't even a quarter of a million. Many people are happy with ME3. So your argument is broken. If a few thousand get mad, move on, you can't force their hands and demand a company to do what you want.. you take it or leave it.

So only the people that are vocal about it dont like the ending?. What about all the other people that didnt like the ending that just stay silent about it or have better things to do with their time then argue on a forum about it?

Modifié par l7986, 16 avril 2012 - 03:40 .

[AJRimmsey]

HenchxNarf wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

god forbid those who review bombed sites also vote bombed these "polls"

Yeah, but it's concrete evidence, you know.

They wouldn't believe logic and the truth if you beat them over the head with it.

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.
Lenin Russian Communist politician & revolutionary (1870 - 1924)

i think its why they hate me,if one person calls them out on a lie,it tends to wreck the plan.

like when my mrs claimed the wing mirror was wrecked by a passing car,except the car would have had to be on the pavement to wreck that mirror

[Menethra]

HenchxNarf wrote...

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And in a fair and equal world, it would. But from the very start, this poll was allowing multiple votes which allowed the "We hate the ending" side to jump out to a huge lead that, quite frankly, disencfranchised anyone who would be pro-ending from voting in it. I think, for example, it's clear that I'm pro-ending. Yet I've never voted in that poll, nor will I. It is simply pointless.

The poll is fine. All the polls around the internet from multiple countries show a majority don't like the ending.

No, it's not. It's been proven that BSN polls are rigged.

Regardless, polls aren't accurate.

Yet as i said earlier if a poll supported you be it on the BSN or elsewhere you would attempt to use it as a evidence for your arguement, you don't because it doesn't support you simple as.

It's easy to sit there saying " polls arn't accurate " when they don't support you it's called denial, people tend to ignore the truth when it contridicts their beliefs but it's also funny seeing how both you and driden say polls are useless and then proceed to post links to other sites in an attempt to argue your point.

You could have a site saying mass effect 3 sold 8 million copies and you would most likely use it to support your arguement, this is the problem with people like you, nothing is relevent unless it supports your point of view..

[Atakuma]

kbct wrote...

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Um political opinion polls and census' are done using a MUCH smaller sample (2-5 thousand). The statistics derived from those polls are applied to the population of a state/province or even a country to accurately determine statistics of a populous. Most of the poll sample sizes I've seen number in the 10's of thousands of people. We can't be sure of how diverse the sample is, but calling it trivial or unreliable is simply illogical.

They're gonna say the polls suffer from self-selection bias and it doesn't matter how big the poll is or how lopsided the results are. Or that there is confirming evidence everywhere you look. They're wrong.

You know having an actual counter would be a lot better then simply yelling that they're wrong over and over again.

[TheJiveDJ]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Um political opinion polls and census' are done using a MUCH smaller sample (2-5 thousand). The statistics derived from those polls are applied to the population of a state/province or even a country to accurately determine statistics of a populous. Most of the poll sample sizes I've seen number in the 10's of thousands of people. We can't be sure of how diverse the sample is, but calling it trivial or unreliable is simply illogical.

They also use random sampling and don't allow multiple voting. That's why political opinion polls and census' are valid, and this poll is not.

That is why I mentioned sample diversity, BUT sample diversity can be quelled if you have a large enough sample.  There have been a ****ton of polls, on many many different sites on all corners of the net.  All of the polls I've seen are overwhelmingly negative.  The rabble or innaccurate data usually gets lost in large samples; the larger the sample, the more accurate it tends to be, even if you are unsure of it's diversity (+1 for learning something from Mythbusters :happy:).

Edit: The old stereotype that everyone on the internet are nerds or live a niche lifestyle is no longer true.  The interet/computers/forums/social media: these have all become very, very mainstream.  People in all walks of life are voicing their opinions on the net, which is why I believe that the internet poll samples are diverse and unbiased enough to be considered accurate.

Modifié par TheJiveDJ, 16 avril 2012 - 03:47 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Menethra wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And in a fair and equal world, it would. But from the very start, this poll was allowing multiple votes which allowed the "We hate the ending" side to jump out to a huge lead that, quite frankly, disencfranchised anyone who would be pro-ending from voting in it. I think, for example, it's clear that I'm pro-ending. Yet I've never voted in that poll, nor will I. It is simply pointless.

The poll is fine. All the polls around the internet from multiple countries show a majority don't like the ending.

No, it's not. It's been proven that BSN polls are rigged.

Regardless, polls aren't accurate.

Yet as i said earlier if a poll supported you be it on the BSN or elsewhere you would attempt to use it as a evidence for your arguement, you don't because it doesn't support you simple as.

It's easy to sit there saying " polls arn't accurate " when they don't support you it's called denial, people tend to ignore the truth when it contridicts their beliefs but it's also funny seeing how both you and driden say polls are useless and then proceed to post links to other sites in an attempt to argue your point.

You could have a site saying mass effect 3 sold 8 million copies and you would most likely use it to support your arguement, this is the problem with people like you, nothing is relevent unless it supports your point of view..

So, you're ignoring the response I made to you a couple pages ago where I refuted your assertion there? I understand, it said something inconvenient to you, so you just ignore it and move on, pretending it never existed.

[kbct]

l7986 wrote...

So only the people that are vocal about it dont like the ending?. What about all the other people that didnt like the ending that just stay silent about it or have better things to do with their time then argue on a forum about it?

It's a great thing if you can ignore all the polls, the fan reviews, and woldwide media attention and just assume the people we can't see that have finished the game either like it or don't care.

[kbct]

Atakuma wrote...

kbct wrote...

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Um political opinion polls and census' are done using a MUCH smaller sample (2-5 thousand). The statistics derived from those polls are applied to the population of a state/province or even a country to accurately determine statistics of a populous. Most of the poll sample sizes I've seen number in the 10's of thousands of people. We can't be sure of how diverse the sample is, but calling it trivial or unreliable is simply illogical.

They're gonna say the polls suffer from self-selection bias and it doesn't matter how big the poll is or how lopsided the results are. Or that there is confirming evidence everywhere you look. They're wrong.

You know having an actual counter would be a lot better then simply yelling that they're wrong over and over again.

http://social.biowar...9304/9#11288033

[Father_Jerusalem]

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Um political opinion polls and census' are done using a MUCH smaller sample (2-5 thousand). The statistics derived from those polls are applied to the population of a state/province or even a country to accurately determine statistics of a populous. Most of the poll sample sizes I've seen number in the 10's of thousands of people. We can't be sure of how diverse the sample is, but calling it trivial or unreliable is simply illogical.

They also use random sampling and don't allow multiple voting. That's why political opinion polls and census' are valid, and this poll is not.

That is why I mentioned sample diversity, BUT sample diversity can be quelled if you have a large enough sample.  There have been a ****ton of polls, on many many different sites on all corners of the net.  All of the polls I've seen are overwhelmingly negative.  The rabble or innaccurate data usually gets lost in large samples; the larger the sample, the more accurate it tends to be, even if you are unsure of it's diversity (+1 for learning something from Mythbusters :happy:).

And when you allow multiple voting in a poll, that destroys any validity of a "large enough sample" because it could simply be 5 people spam voting the same result over and over again to get the result they want. It's NOT uncommon for things like that to happen in internet polls.

[Atakuma]

kbct wrote...

l7986 wrote...

So only the people that are vocal about it dont like the ending?. What about all the other people that didnt like the ending that just stay silent about it or have better things to do with their time then argue on a forum about it?

It's a great thing if you can ignore all the polls, the fan reviews, and woldwide media attention and just assume the people we can't see that have finished the game either like it or don't care.

How is assuming that they don't like it and care alot any better?

[thunderhawk862002]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Um political opinion polls and census' are done using a MUCH smaller sample (2-5 thousand). The statistics derived from those polls are applied to the population of a state/province or even a country to accurately determine statistics of a populous. Most of the poll sample sizes I've seen number in the 10's of thousands of people. We can't be sure of how diverse the sample is, but calling it trivial or unreliable is simply illogical.

They also use random sampling and don't allow multiple voting. That's why political opinion polls and census' are valid, and this poll is not.

That is why I mentioned sample diversity, BUT sample diversity can be quelled if you have a large enough sample.  There have been a ****ton of polls, on many many different sites on all corners of the net.  All of the polls I've seen are overwhelmingly negative.  The rabble or innaccurate data usually gets lost in large samples; the larger the sample, the more accurate it tends to be, even if you are unsure of it's diversity (+1 for learning something from Mythbusters :happy:).

And when you allow multiple voting in a poll, that destroys any validity of a "large enough sample" because it could simply be 5 people spam voting the same result over and over again to get the result they want. It's NOT uncommon for things like that to happen in internet polls.

Have you seen a poll anywhere that has shown that more people liked the endings than not?  IGN, G4, Kotaku, Gametrailers, gamefaqs, etc?  

[AJRimmsey]

kbct wrote...

Nothing is certain unless we ask every man, woman, and child what they
thought of the ending, but we can state with a high degree of confidence
that the majority didn't like the ending as-is.

"nothing is certain"
"but"

:D:D

sorry there is no rolls on floor laughing smiley

[kbct]

Atakuma wrote...

kbct wrote...

l7986 wrote...

So only the people that are vocal about it dont like the ending?. What about all the other people that didnt like the ending that just stay silent about it or have better things to do with their time then argue on a forum about it?

It's a great thing if you can ignore all the polls, the fan reviews, and woldwide media attention and just assume the people we can't see that have finished the game either like it or don't care.

How is assuming that they don't like it and care alot any better?

I don't ignore all the polls, the fan reviews, and woldwide media attention. I look at the evidence.

I don't assume based on a lack of evidence.

[TheJiveDJ]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Um political opinion polls and census' are done using a MUCH smaller sample (2-5 thousand). The statistics derived from those polls are applied to the population of a state/province or even a country to accurately determine statistics of a populous. Most of the poll sample sizes I've seen number in the 10's of thousands of people. We can't be sure of how diverse the sample is, but calling it trivial or unreliable is simply illogical.

They also use random sampling and don't allow multiple voting. That's why political opinion polls and census' are valid, and this poll is not.

That is why I mentioned sample diversity, BUT sample diversity can be quelled if you have a large enough sample.  There have been a ****ton of polls, on many many different sites on all corners of the net.  All of the polls I've seen are overwhelmingly negative.  The rabble or innaccurate data usually gets lost in large samples; the larger the sample, the more accurate it tends to be, even if you are unsure of it's diversity (+1 for learning something from Mythbusters :happy:).

And when you allow multiple voting in a poll, that destroys any validity of a "large enough sample" because it could simply be 5 people spam voting the same result over and over again to get the result they want. It's NOT uncommon for things like that to happen in internet polls.

Well fair enough, I'm unsure of how many of the polls allow multiple
votes.  From my experience this is a very rare occurence and I haven't
noticed it at all.

Modifié par TheJiveDJ, 16 avril 2012 - 03:51 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...


Have you seen a poll anywhere that has shown that more people liked the endings than not?  IGN, G4, Kotaku, Gametrailers, gamefaqs, etc?  

I haven't seen a single poll other than the BSN one that is constantly thrust into people's faces on this site, because, quite frankly, I don't care what they say. If they said a majority of people loved the endings, I wouldn't care. If they say the majority of people hate the endings, I don't care.

You know why?

Because I have never, and will never, take a poll on the internet seriously. They're simply TOO easy to rig, draw on self-selecting responders, and are a crutch for people who's only argument is "Well, 2383141407120 people likes this, so you have to too!"

[HenchxNarf]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...


Have you seen a poll anywhere that has shown that more people liked the endings than not?  IGN, G4, Kotaku, Gametrailers, gamefaqs, etc?  

I haven't seen a single poll other than the BSN one that is constantly thrust into people's faces on this site, because, quite frankly, I don't care what they say. If they said a majority of people loved the endings, I wouldn't care. If they say the majority of people hate the endings, I don't care.

You know why?

Because I have never, and will never, take a poll on the internet seriously. They're simply TOO easy to rig, draw on self-selecting responders, and are a crutch for people who's only argument is "Well, 2383141407120 people likes this, so you have to too!"

Gametrailers had a poll, but once BSN cought wind of it they flamed it and found out how to multiply their votes. So they turned it into an invalid poll.

[kbct]

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Well fair enough, I'm unsure of how many of the polls allow multiple
votes.  From my experience this is a very rare occurence and I haven't
noticed it at all.

The polls are user based, not IP address based. They can't seem to rig a poll either. There are shenanigans but it is minor. I tested out their claim and tried to vote from my laptop, but couldn't. I needed to log-in. And I still couldn't vote again. Also, we don't even know if you do manage to vote twice, the vote will be counted twice.

The idea is to plant doubt in your mind.

Modifié par kbct, 16 avril 2012 - 03:57 .

[Menethra]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Menethra wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And in a fair and equal world, it would. But from the very start, this poll was allowing multiple votes which allowed the "We hate the ending" side to jump out to a huge lead that, quite frankly, disencfranchised anyone who would be pro-ending from voting in it. I think, for example, it's clear that I'm pro-ending. Yet I've never voted in that poll, nor will I. It is simply pointless.

The poll is fine. All the polls around the internet from multiple countries show a majority don't like the ending.

No, it's not. It's been proven that BSN polls are rigged.

Regardless, polls aren't accurate.

Yet as i said earlier if a poll supported you be it on the BSN or elsewhere you would attempt to use it as a evidence for your arguement, you don't because it doesn't support you simple as.

It's easy to sit there saying " polls arn't accurate " when they don't support you it's called denial, people tend to ignore the truth when it contridicts their beliefs but it's also funny seeing how both you and driden say polls are useless and then proceed to post links to other sites in an attempt to argue your point.

You could have a site saying mass effect 3 sold 8 million copies and you would most likely use it to support your arguement, this is the problem with people like you, nothing is relevent unless it supports your point of view..

So, you're ignoring the response I made to you a couple pages ago where I refuted your assertion there? I understand, it said something inconvenient to you, so you just ignore it and move on, pretending it never existed.

How was it tainted? I'm sure you'll use that voting multiple times crap but what about elsewhere? IGN had a poll up about 3 weeks ago and the votes were majority in favour of the ending sucking, i suppose thats tainted aswell right? Ah hell it must be because it disagrees with you.

Talking to people like you is the equivalent of talking to a brick wall. I could sit here debating the use of polls and such all night but it wouldn't get me anywhere because your opinion is formed.

[kbct]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

I haven't seen a single poll other than the BSN one that is constantly thrust into people's faces on this site, because, quite frankly, I don't care what they say.

That makes it simple for you.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Menethra wrote...

How was it tainted? I'm sure you'll use that voting multiple times crap but what about elsewhere? IGN had a poll up about 3 weeks ago and the votes were majority in favour of the ending sucking, i suppose thats tainted aswell right? Ah hell it must be because it disagrees with you.

Talking to people like you is the equivalent of talking to a brick wall. I could sit here debating the use of polls and such all night but it wouldn't get me anywhere because your opinion is formed.

Multiple votes. Self-selecting bias. Advertising to get one specific result. Etc etc etc.

And you snidely comment about my opinion being formed, yet... yours is wide open, is it? Because you're sitting here deflecting away from my point that I made in response to you, directly. That I wouldn't ever use an internet poll to try and back my position, when you just assumed that I would.

[HenchxNarf]

Menethra wrote...

Talking to people like you is the equivalent of talking to a brick wall. I could sit here debating the use of polls and such all night but it wouldn't get me anywhere because your opinion is formed.

Kind of how it is to talk to someone who hates the ending.

your opinion is the only one that matters, right?

[AJRimmsey]

Menethra wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Menethra wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

kbct wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And in a fair and equal world, it would. But from the very start, this poll was allowing multiple votes which allowed the "We hate the ending" side to jump out to a huge lead that, quite frankly, disencfranchised anyone who would be pro-ending from voting in it. I think, for example, it's clear that I'm pro-ending. Yet I've never voted in that poll, nor will I. It is simply pointless.

The poll is fine. All the polls around the internet from multiple countries show a majority don't like the ending.

No, it's not. It's been proven that BSN polls are rigged.

Regardless, polls aren't accurate.

Yet as i said earlier if a poll supported you be it on the BSN or elsewhere you would attempt to use it as a evidence for your arguement, you don't because it doesn't support you simple as.

It's easy to sit there saying " polls arn't accurate " when they don't support you it's called denial, people tend to ignore the truth when it contridicts their beliefs but it's also funny seeing how both you and driden say polls are useless and then proceed to post links to other sites in an attempt to argue your point.

You could have a site saying mass effect 3 sold 8 million copies and you would most likely use it to support your arguement, this is the problem with people like you, nothing is relevent unless it supports your point of view..

So, you're ignoring the response I made to you a couple pages ago where I refuted your assertion there? I understand, it said something inconvenient to you, so you just ignore it and move on, pretending it never existed.

How was it tainted? I'm sure you'll use that voting multiple times crap but what about elsewhere? IGN had a poll up about 3 weeks ago and the votes were majority in favour of the ending sucking, i suppose thats tainted aswell right? Ah hell it must be because it disagrees with you.

Talking to people like you is the equivalent of talking to a brick wall. I could sit here debating the use of polls and such all night but it wouldn't get me anywhere because your opinion is formed.

actually it was proved you could vote up to 4 times on as many days.

might be fixed now,but then theres people like me,i didnt hate the ending,but also didnt bother voting on a poll that could be rigged.

even if the poll had over 3000 people say they hated the ending thats less than a drop in an ocean of gamers

but then again thats another irritating fact that goes ignored if your a hater.

[AxisEvolve]

Dridengx wrote...
Here we go with the tired polls defense. Do you realize how many people voted on those polls? don't get stuck on the percentage that's in your favor, look at the numbers. they are pitiful in comparison to the consumer and fan base

Here you go misunderstanding the concept of polling again. 

HenchxNarf wrote...
Polls aren't a valid source of numbers. Especially BSN polls.

 
Even faulty evidence is better than speculation and imaginary statistics. 

[Kaiser Arian XVII]