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For the first time, Bioware is on thin ice.


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#176
AJRimmsey

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CARL_DF90 wrote...

@ vvDRUCILLAvv

Again true. Dang, you're on a roll.

@ AJRimmsey

I can see your points, but by that same token, p**** off your loyal, regular customers can be bad for your business in the long run.


agree

totally agree,pissing off any amount of customers is a bad idea.

but since the gaming industry went from corner store to hyper markets we are basically buggered every which way.

the bean counters rule now,and as the bean counters dont play games we are stuck in a catch 22.
if they see bad returns they will either dump the company or change the way games are made.

its why i see over active haters being a major problem,if the bean counters are actually convinced by too much hate that ME franchise is going to fail,then they will drop it like a hot stone.

sure EA has a rep for killing companys,but it seems daft to me to give them a reason to do it.

#177
jakal66

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Come on.be honest you're all gonna run and preorder bioware's next title just to get that weapon armor os whatver they can think of!!!!hahahaa just like all the people who said they weren't gonna buy ME3 cause they hated ME2 and then they were here complaining about the game they bough...that being ME3.I take what people say here with a grain of salt...just like this thread of "Thin ICe" Gimmie a break...if they made profit they won't collapse.And if you think 100.000 is most of the player base you are so wrong...there are tens of thousands of casual players and hardcore players who have bought it and never even got into the forums...how can you know if they will or won't buy the next one....speculations for everyone!!!!

#178
RaggieRags

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You are welcome to visit any non-BSN ME3 thread and it's filled with complaints about the ending. It's not just the hardcore fans who are complaining, it's the majority of people who play the game through. The NeoGaf thread even had a poll and even less people liked the ending over there than in here.

#179
AlanC9

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vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Bioware might not fall through the ice if they ditch the extra weight, that weight being EA.


Exactly how is EA supposed to be responsible for what's wrong with ME3? The idea kind of works if you think the problem  is only that the ending wasn't detailed enough, in which case the EC should fix you up pretty well. But if your problem is with the whole concept of the ending... that's all Bioware.

#180
AJRimmsey

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RaggieRags wrote...

You are welcome to visit any non-BSN ME3 thread and it's filled with complaints about the ending. It's not just the hardcore fans who are complaining, it's the majority of people who play the game through. The NeoGaf thread even had a poll and even less people liked the ending over there than in here.


it all comes down to a simple equation

total buyers minus total forum users who disliked the ending = ?

if the numbers dont favour the development costs = no more games

now,if given a choice,which would you go for ?

more games or no more games ?

and remember,those in charge of the game development DO NOT play games.

#181
CARL_DF90

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AJRimmsey wrote...

RaggieRags wrote...

You are welcome to visit any non-BSN ME3 thread and it's filled with complaints about the ending. It's not just the hardcore fans who are complaining, it's the majority of people who play the game through. The NeoGaf thread even had a poll and even less people liked the ending over there than in here.


it all comes down to a simple equation

total buyers minus total forum users who disliked the ending = ?

if the numbers dont favour the development costs = no more games

now,if given a choice,which would you go for ?

more games or no more games ?

and remember,those in charge of the game development DO NOT play games.


@ RaggieRags

I don't suppose you have a link because you just sparked my curiousity.

@ AJRimmsey

And again true.

#182
vvDRUCILLAvv

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AlanC9 wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Bioware might not fall through the ice if they ditch the extra weight, that weight being EA.


Exactly how is EA supposed to be responsible for what's wrong with ME3? The idea kind of works if you think the problem  is only that the ending wasn't detailed enough, in which case the EC should fix you up pretty well. But if your problem is with the whole concept of the ending... that's all Bioware.


The whole game was rushed and deeply flawed because of EA's push for release. If given a lengthier time of conception Im pretty sure the game would have came out differently.

#183
hippanda

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AJRimmsey wrote...

RaggieRags wrote...

You are welcome to visit any non-BSN ME3 thread and it's filled with complaints about the ending. It's not just the hardcore fans who are complaining, it's the majority of people who play the game through. The NeoGaf thread even had a poll and even less people liked the ending over there than in here.


it all comes down to a simple equation

total buyers minus total forum users who disliked the ending = ?

if the numbers dont favour the development costs = no more games

now,if given a choice,which would you go for ?

more games or no more games ?

and remember,those in charge of the game development DO NOT play games.

They have no incentive to fix the problem if everyone keeps giving them money anyway, so in that case the preferable scenario should be "no more games." Bioware is hardly the only game developer in town. If they release a colossal failure and don't do anything to fix it, other developers can safely take note on "what not to do" and scoop up their market share.

#184
CARL_DF90

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vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Bioware might not fall through the ice if they ditch the extra weight, that weight being EA.


Exactly how is EA supposed to be responsible for what's wrong with ME3? The idea kind of works if you think the problem  is only that the ending wasn't detailed enough, in which case the EC should fix you up pretty well. But if your problem is with the whole concept of the ending... that's all Bioware.


The whole game was rushed and deeply flawed because of EA's push for release. If given a lengthier time of conception Im pretty sure the game would have came out differently.


That and a lack of all those leaks would have also helped out too, but they only have themselve to blame for letting ANYTHING out of their studio and into someone's hands who was not in the Bioware/EA club.

#185
Ghost-621

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To the drones in the room, saying that ME3 is just the best work ever created since sliced bread, thanks for the good laugh, but reading your pissant garbage does get old. Oh, I also found it amusing that I have found that most people with "Shepard Deserves Better Fans" signatures to be the most pompous, idiotic and ill-informed people on the BSN. I believe one even had a quote...of himself? In his signature? You showed them buddy...yeah...

I'll just leave this here. Consider it the final nail in the coffin.


Sheoro wrote...

That's what I read and hear constantly:
"The ending was horrible, but the rest was good/great/awesome/brilliant/ME3 was the best ME"
How can you actually say that? Even completely disregarding the mess that is the ending, I was sitting there the whole game with an unbelieving face, stuttering on the inside: "Did that just happen?" or "Did he actually say that?"

Here's a few things that just come to my mind:



- Your choices don’t matter
This doesn't just apply to the ending, it applies to the whole game. Did [companion from ME1/ME2] die? No problem, he's replaced by some NPC. Kept the Collector base? Have some Military Strength Points. Kept that NPC in ME1 alive? Military Points. Your companions from ME2? Military points. That assignment in ME1/2? Military. Points. The biggest thing I’ve heard of was about the Salarian Councilor, and even that is just a penny.

- The Crucible
This is what you call a classic plot device, and "device" is even literal in this case. It also shows how completely pointless ME2 was: It should have been all about finding a way to stop the reapers. Instead we got that Cerberus and Collector stuff, and by the time ME3 was made, a writer or some cool guy found out: "Whoops, the reapers are attacking, but we haven't established a SINGLE CLUE about stopping them. Ah, I'll just let Liara find a superweapon on, uh, Mars." You want to tell me that is remotely good writing?

- Geth
As if ME2 wasn't pointless enough, another part about it became completely
null: The Geth indoctrination.
Here's a short illustration:
Mass Effect 1:
"The Geth are controlled by Reapers."
Mass Effect 2:
"Only a part of the Geth is controlled by Reapers."
Mass Effect 3:
"The Geth are controlled by Reapers."
There was absolutely no point in Legion's appearance in ME2 - especially since the history of the Geth uprising is explained once again (though unfitting and amateurish). Kind of reminds me of DX:HR, where the canon ending is “everyone dies, nothing that happened matters”.

- Quarians
Oh yeah, another plot device. Right as the reapers attack, the Quarians invent some device that makes the Geth vulnerable.
Just a short reminder: Not long ago we were told that Quarian ships are made of scrap metal and duct tape. That if there's no noise, the engine died. Their whole pilgrimage bases on the fact their ships are flying junk that seriously needs some fixing.
Geth, on the other hand, had 300 years of access to unlimited resources and high-end technology. Not to mention all their other benefits from being synthetic. There is no way they didn’t build superior defenses and fleets.
And now I have to believe the Quarians just said "Hey, we COINCIDENTALLY found this plot device, let's take the risk of dooming our whole race and dive right into the shark's pool"?

- Companions
Am I the only one who noticed the massive changes in behavior for most Companions?
A short list:
Garrus
Went from untalkative ("Shepard", the only reaction upon seeing him again in ME2) to Roman Bellic ("Shepard, bars! Drinks, Shepard! Let's go bowling!")
Wrex
DIDN'T EVEN SAY HELLO. Tells unfunny knee-slappers jokes.
Ashley
Bimbofized.
Legion
Suddenly acts like an individual, nothing about its involvement makes any sense. Uses the word "beautiful".

- EDI
Okay, they totally messed up here. EDI’s writer from ME2 left, and if you didn’t notice that, I just won’t believe you. She constantly contradicts herself and former AI lore, stating for example that she has no emotions – meanwhile dating Jeff, making Jokes and actually following Shepard out of loyalty.
And do I even have to mention the horrible, horrible[/i] design choice that is her body? It also leaves the question:
Why aren’t Geth remote-controlling bodies and ships from a safe spot?



- Dialogue
Can you even call it dialogue anymore? There were maybe two sentences Shepard said in ME1 that didn't require my input - and now he now talks all day by himself. Out of a 10 minutes dialogue cutscene I had two occasions to actually choose something. And these weren’t even meaningful choices.
Best example is that kid at the beginning: A renegade, or even just a mildly intelligent Shepard wouldn't waste his time on a single kid since there are millions dying already! But you can't influence that because someone really wanted him to have cliched nightmares.
Oh, not to mention the voice acting quality suffered greatly from the loss of Ginny McSwain.



- Illusive Man
This guy had potential to be a god-tier villain. He is cruel, he is immoral, but his reasoning is flawless.
Whooosh, nope, indoctrinated! Since 20 years. From the first moment on I wanted to know "TIM, HOW do you want to control them?", but Shepard doesn't ask (quality writing strikes again) and TIM doesn't explain. He just wants to do it. And he merely tried to convince Shepard, his most expensive project[/i], to believe him.



- The "war"
This is really something that kept pressing on my mind the whole game:
Since ME1 we know that one single reaper needs a whole fleet to get destroyed, so a whole fleet of reapers needs an ungodly amount of firepower. Even in ME3, they manage to destroy the entire Earth defense force in seconds! It isn't war, it's slaughter, it’s pure survival, and everyone acknowledges that...
...and, seconds after, talks about it like a regular war: "The Reapers are pressing on our borders", "Their forces are in entrenched positions", and, my favorite, "we totally need the Krogan to fight these giant invincible
starships!"

- Last
but not least

3/4 of ME1's staff wasn't involved in ME3:

http://www.abload.de...3staff1uk9b.jpg



Some of these points may or may not be important to you, but they’re mostly fact and they, along to all that stuff I didn’t list* sum up to an overall picture that shows a rushed, monetized game that had no artistic integrity from the first day of production.

*just straight from my mind: Space Ninjas, asking a Turian to help Earth while standing right in front of his burning homeworld, Javik being another plot device par excellence

Modifié par Ghost-621, 16 avril 2012 - 06:53 .


#186
CARL_DF90

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@ Ghost-621

Angry much? :)

#187
AJRimmsey

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hippanda wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

RaggieRags wrote...

You are welcome to visit any non-BSN ME3 thread and it's filled with complaints about the ending. It's not just the hardcore fans who are complaining, it's the majority of people who play the game through. The NeoGaf thread even had a poll and even less people liked the ending over there than in here.


it all comes down to a simple equation

total buyers minus total forum users who disliked the ending = ?

if the numbers dont favour the development costs = no more games

now,if given a choice,which would you go for ?

more games or no more games ?

and remember,those in charge of the game development DO NOT play games.

They have no incentive to fix the problem if everyone keeps giving them money anyway, so in that case the preferable scenario should be "no more games." Bioware is hardly the only game developer in town. If they release a colossal failure and don't do anything to fix it, other developers can safely take note on "what not to do" and scoop up their market share.


well if the "problem" is only seen as a problem by a miniscule few,i dont see how it is a colossal failure

i personally hate world of warcraft,but is that a colossal failure ?

#188
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

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Ghost-621 wrote...

- Companions
Am I the only one who noticed the massive changes in behavior for most Companions?
A short list:

Ashley
Bimbofized.

How do you "Bimbofy" behavior?

#189
AJRimmsey

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CARL_DF90 wrote...

@ Ghost-621

Angry much? :)


i read his first paragraph and looked right at his sig,i wonder if hes connected to that in any way :whistle:

then stopped reading as the spittle and bile was flying everywhere

#190
Ghost-621

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jreezy wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

- Companions
Am I the only one who noticed the massive changes in behavior for most Companions?
A short list:

Ashley
Bimbofized.

How do you "Bimbofy" behavior?


Ashley was turned from that career-military woman that we knew from ME1 to yet another oversexualized character in ME3. From the way she dressed to the way she acted around the crew and Shepard.

#191
hippanda

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AJRimmsey wrote...

hippanda wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

RaggieRags wrote...

You are welcome to visit any non-BSN ME3 thread and it's filled with complaints about the ending. It's not just the hardcore fans who are complaining, it's the majority of people who play the game through. The NeoGaf thread even had a poll and even less people liked the ending over there than in here.


it all comes down to a simple equation

total buyers minus total forum users who disliked the ending = ?

if the numbers dont favour the development costs = no more games

now,if given a choice,which would you go for ?

more games or no more games ?

and remember,those in charge of the game development DO NOT play games.

They have no incentive to fix the problem if everyone keeps giving them money anyway, so in that case the preferable scenario should be "no more games." Bioware is hardly the only game developer in town. If they release a colossal failure and don't do anything to fix it, other developers can safely take note on "what not to do" and scoop up their market share.


well if the "problem" is only seen as a problem by a miniscule few,i dont see how it is a colossal failure


I thought we were talking hypotheticals.

AJRimmsey wrote...

i personally hate world of warcraft,but is that a colossal failure ?


Given the number of subscribers they've maintained for as long as they've maintained it, I think you'd have trouble making that argument; however, you could certainly argue against the direction they seem to be taking, given the rate at which they've been hemorrhaging subscribers recently.

#192
CARL_DF90

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@ Ghost-621

The Ashley part you mentioned I definity agree with. All this overly sexed up character looks is getting a bit tasteless.

Modifié par CARL_DF90, 16 avril 2012 - 07:01 .


#193
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

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Ghost-621 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

- Companions
Am I the only one who noticed the massive changes in behavior for most Companions?
A short list:

Ashley
Bimbofized.

How do you "Bimbofy" behavior?


Ashley was turned from that career-military woman that we knew from ME1 to yet another oversexualized character in ME3. From the way she dressed to the way she acted around the crew and Shepard.


The appearance criticism is understandable but she didn't really act like an oversexualized character.

Modifié par jreezy, 16 avril 2012 - 07:00 .


#194
Ghost-621

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AJRimmsey wrote...

CARL_DF90 wrote...

@ Ghost-621

Angry much? :)


i read his first paragraph and looked right at his sig,i wonder if hes connected to that in any way :whistle:

then stopped reading as the spittle and bile was flying everywhere


Oh! A new bandwagon! Do tell me about this "spittle and bile!" 

If you're going to try to argue, do it well or not at all. 

#195
Ghost-621

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jreezy wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

- Companions
Am I the only one who noticed the massive changes in behavior for most Companions?
A short list:

Ashley
Bimbofized.

How do you "Bimbofy" behavior?


Ashley was turned from that career-military woman that we knew from ME1 to yet another oversexualized character in ME3. From the way she dressed to the way she acted around the crew and Shepard.


The appearance criticism is understandable but she didn't really act like an oversexualized character.


A Marine through-and-through lying drunk on the floor? 

#196
vvDRUCILLAvv

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AJRimmsey wrote...

CARL_DF90 wrote...

@ Ghost-621

Angry much? :)


i read his first paragraph and looked right at his sig,i wonder if hes connected to that in any way :whistle:

then stopped reading as the spittle and bile was flying everywhere


Spittle & bile. ROFL!!!!!:o

#197
mauro2222

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Ghost, calm down a bit.

#198
CARL_DF90

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[quote]Ghost-621 wrote...

[/quote]

A Marine through-and-through lying drunk on the floor? 

[/quote]

Having been in the military I can actually vouch for that one. Image IPB

#199
Ghost-621

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mauro2222 wrote...

Ghost, calm down a bit.


How cute. Interw3bs making people feel uneasy because they don't agree?

C'mon, if you're going to refute the post with actual proof of how flawed ME3 is, do it. I want to see how anyone could justify the terrible writing, really, do tell. 

#200
Mylia Stenetch

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AxisEvolve wrote...

kbct wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...
Polls aren't a valid source of numbers. Especially BSN polls.

 
Even faulty evidence is better than speculation and imaginary statistics. 


Self-selecting polls are used in the market research industry. 72K votes is huge by any standard.


Yeah.. Even presidential polls usually restrict themselves to under 2000 people. They can still predict an outcome almost every time. The concept of polling isn't to ask everyone their opinion. That would eliminate the entire need for polling if we could magically know everyone's opinion. 

72,000 votes is more than enough to see the majority opinion. The CNET poll has 20,000, the IGN facebook poll has almost 20,000 votes also. 

To say the BSN poll has no credibility is ridiculous. WE ARE THEIR BIGGEST FANS. 

If the ending makes no sense to most of the people who know pretty much everything there is to know about Mass Effect, then the casual gamer must really hate it. 

I really want to see the Gamestop trade-in numbers. I have a feeling they are absurdly high. 


AJRimmsey wrote...

Nothing is certain unless we ask every man, woman, and child what they thought of the ending, but we can state with a high degree of confidence that the majority liked the ending as-is.

 
Evidence?


To me IGN, and all internet polls are just a pile of crap. I have seen simple polls turned into a complete rigged fiasco, cause of the a small group of people who know to skew the data. If it was like a Presedential (or PM for me), most are set for their sample size in the area. The internet is too much of a large area with the corruption on it to get accuate or close to accurate data. All the data can do is help you speculate what you next step could be.