5087 réponses à ce sujet

[playoff52]

thisisme8 wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Again, and Hawk, you and I go back and forth on this constantly - whether or not its bad writing or whatever, neither of us can judge the original decision to start the cycle. Too little information to reach any conclusion. We can judge the morality or the extent of the cycle, but little else.

I don't entirely disagree, but to me an assertion made without proof is a useless one. He could well be right, but without any evidence he is unreliable and in simply practical terms, wrong. I know you think he's alien and unknowable, but I don't think being a charlatan is alien.

And I think that's intentional and possibly a mistake.  I believe the reaction they were looking for was not the one they received.  They tried painting an enemy that we couldn't understand with a choice that was just as uncomfortable, but instead of taking it out on the catalyst, we took it out on the writers.

I think it mostly boils down to a lack of exposition. As it plays, the scene with the Catalyst is very light on meaningful dialog and tries too hard to play like the architect scene in Matrix 2. The problem is that in doing so it both overshadows the conflict you were previously working against while at the same time raising a horde of new questions (that go unanswered for the most part) minutes from the end of the series not just the game.

That's a big no no for a trilogy conclusion.

[thisisme8]

Pretty much what I said in the edit you quoted. Though, if Morgan Freeman was the catalyst, there wouldn't have been a single problem with the ending, because whether he's legit or not is irrelevant. He simply... is.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

playoff52 wrote...
I pointed this out a few times earlier in other threads, but upon a second play through on Thessia when speaking with Vendetta the Prothean VI, he hints (However poorly) at the notion that the Reapers aren't acting of their own volition, but that the Protheans had suspicions the Cycle was being perpetuated by some other entity. When Shepard asks who or what, Vendetta then replies they weren't certain as they had no time to investigate the idea. Merely that they observed there was a pattern in the cycle, and that it was too systematic to be coincidence.

So...It's kinda there, but they needed to do a better job of foreshadowing it than they did. Granted, I'm probably just connecting points B and X together with a worn out strand of yarn, but after I heard the conversation again it seemed to click a little better. Still doesn't excuse the craptastical presentation of it on the first play through.

Foreshadowing "Hey, there's gonna be a maguffin at the end of this!" isn't a license to do whatever you want with that maguffin in the end. It's not a "get out of plot free" card.

I was fully aware of that forshadowing on the first playthrough, and I was completely expecting the Reapers to have some crazy weird motivation tied up with something cool and inexplicable. I was expecting to possibly have my mind bent by the arcane and subjective nature of the universe, or some junk.

Instead I got a simplistic sub-optimal solution to a boring minor problem for which there were obviously a very large number of potential solutions.

[playoff52]

Heh, that and Morgan Freeman would have tossed the script if he got the one they fed to whoever read the Catalyst. Or improved it and turned it to gold.

[KitaSaturnyne]

jbauck wrote...

If someone draws me a blue stick figure with funny bumps on the head and scrawls "asari" across the bottom, that someone would be my bff.  Just sayin'.

I totally want to draw that in MSPaint and make it an avatar or something.

jbauck wrote...

But to your actual question - I wrote this whole thing where I got all caught up in the semantics of "forgive".  I deleted it, because it got crazy out-of-hand.  I will say that an attempt to fix the problem that does not actually fix the problem will also not fix the consumer trust issue.  BW was one of the few companies I'd pre-order a game from.  I usually wait until games are on sale (hence I am just now playing DE:HR ... and to clarify, I'm playing HR, in case anyone is keeping track ...).  BW is now off the list of people I will pre-order a game from.  If they fix the thematic issues with the ending, they might make it back onto the list of people I will pay full price for a game from - but that's, say, within a week of release, if I know how it ends, and I know the ending doesn't make me want to beat myself.

Otherwise, it's a ... maybe, six months after the release date, when it's deeply, deeply discounted and there's already a bunch of dlc available (and if I know how it ends, and I know the ending doesn't make me want to beat myself).  There's pretty much no chance I'd pick up any part of a trilogy from them until the entire thing had been released.

Indeed, everyone's within their rights to buy or not buy, etc.. I'm just questioning this nihilistic tendency people have where if Company A disappoints them with something, they immediately just refuse to buy anything from said company every again. An all-or-nothing deal. I don't understand it. Places like BioWare are run by humans. Humans are fallible, humans will make mistakes, even if they involve things that could have been great, like Mass Effect. I'm just struggling to understand this frame of mind.

Human Revolution is a great game, though I'm sure many will find tons of plotholes and whatever. Personally, I enjoyed it beginning to end and found the final showdown to be a welcome break from the boss battles that preceded it. Interestingly though, I loved the inclusion of the boss battles because it's been a long time for me since a game included that feature in a game. It felt more 'classic' to me, which was great. That said, keep the name Nicolette DuClare in mind while playing. Enjoy the game.

[thisisme8]

I have it on steam but never installed it.... hmmm...

[playoff52]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

playoff52 wrote...
I pointed this out a few times earlier in other threads, but upon a second play through on Thessia when speaking with Vendetta the Prothean VI, he hints (However poorly) at the notion that the Reapers aren't acting of their own volition, but that the Protheans had suspicions the Cycle was being perpetuated by some other entity. When Shepard asks who or what, Vendetta then replies they weren't certain as they had no time to investigate the idea. Merely that they observed there was a pattern in the cycle, and that it was too systematic to be coincidence.

So...It's kinda there, but they needed to do a better job of foreshadowing it than they did. Granted, I'm probably just connecting points B and X together with a worn out strand of yarn, but after I heard the conversation again it seemed to click a little better. Still doesn't excuse the craptastical presentation of it on the first play through.

Foreshadowing "Hey, there's gonna be a maguffin at the end of this!" isn't a license to do whatever you want with that maguffin in the end. It's not a "get out of plot free" card.

I was fully aware of that forshadowing on the first playthrough, and I was completely expecting the Reapers to have some crazy weird motivation tied up with something cool and inexplicable. I was expecting to possibly have my mind bent by the arcane and subjective nature of the universe, or some junk.

Instead I got a simplistic sub-optimal solution to a boring minor problem for which there were obviously a very large number of potential solutions.

Quite true, I'm simply saying that the "Where did this crap come from?!" doesn't completely work since they did kind of say something about it. I also said it was a terrible attempt and likely just shouldn't have been done at all.

[Taleroth]

"Get out of plot free card."

I'm going to have to steal that.

[playoff52]

Taleroth wrote...

"Get out of plot free card."

I'm going to have to steal that.

Aye, gave me a chuckle too ^.^

[thisisme8]

Taleroth wrote...

"Get out of plot free card."

I'm going to have to steal that.

Did you play chess with Traynor?  I played Calvinball...  it was the end of the world - can you blame me?

[Taleroth]

thisisme8 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

"Get out of plot free card."

I'm going to have to steal that.

Did you play chess with Traynor?  I played Calvinball...  it was the end of the world - can you blame me?

Yet you still lost. There's really no excuse to lose when playing Calvinball.

[thisisme8]

Taleroth wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

"Get out of plot free card."

I'm going to have to steal that.

Did you play chess with Traynor?  I played Calvinball...  it was the end of the world - can you blame me?

Yet you still lost. There's really no excuse to lose when playing Calvinball.

I did...  I really, really did...

[jbauck]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...
Indeed, everyone's within their rights to buy or not buy, etc.. I'm just questioning this nihilistic tendency people have where if Company A disappoints them with something, they immediately just refuse to buy anything from said company every again. An all-or-nothing deal. I don't understand it. Places like BioWare are run by humans. Humans are fallible, humans will make mistakes, even if they involve things that could have been great, like Mass Effect. I'm just struggling to understand this frame of mind.

Simple - it's not about blaming or hating someone for being human.  It's about getting the idea that a company is producing products that don't meet your standards, don't appeal to you, or aren't really meant for you to begin with.

I'm picky about narrative.  The ending of ME3 offends my narrative sensibilities.  I mean, seriously - I spent a month trying to wrap my brain around >why< I hated it so badly, and then felt driven to wrote a ten page essay to express it all.  Other than a few nice shiny lights in the darkness - like this thread - overall, it was a very unpleasant experience.

I do understand this impulse to entirely boycott a business over something like this.  While I'm taking the more measured approach of "find out if it's going to make me wish I'd hit my head against a brick wall for 100+ hours" instead, that's only because BW is pretty much the proverbial "only game in town" for certain aspects of BW games that appeal to me.  For example, their progressiveness: their inclusion of gay romances are the most obvious example of that (and, really, that's the general brain-space in my head where the "let's make everyone the same instead of learning to accept our differences" Synthesis ending makes my skin crawl ... ).  I'd probably not only stop buying BW games entirely, but also hand-write them a strongly-worded letter, if, say, their next game had no character customization options and the PC was a strutting meathead homophobic jackass tasked with defending the forces of tyrrany and oppression against those pesky upstart freedom-loving rebels.

[Sable Phoenix]

I thought I was going to post up my big four-page analysis of the game structure of ME3 before I left on my business trip and the EC came out. The rumblings I'm hearing indicate that the EC is not going to be good, however... I think I'll wait, let it sit for a week to let my brain rest (I've literally been working on the thing for two months), and include the EC in it afterwards.

Don't anybody burn down the thread while I'm gone.

[KitaSaturnyne]

@Sable Phoenix

We'll keep it warm for you. Just note that I can't guarantee anything in the face of drayfish's love for EXPLOSIONS!!!!

Great. Now I have to cause, I mean watch, explosions.

[Seijin8]

KitaSaturnyne said... "I'm just questioning this nihilistic tendency people have where if Company A disappoints them with something, they immediately just refuse to buy anything from said company every again. An all-or-nothing deal. I don't understand it."

It isn't just ME3, though. For me, this started with DA:O. I wanted to really love that game, but I couldn't. It was good, but not great (to me). The DLC that came out for it was wildly subpar. (Excluding Shale, who was really just a reincarnation of HK-47.)

So I was hesitant to go with DA2, and the reviews were a turn off. Many people thought they dropped the ball in a storytelling sense. 2 strikes.

ME3... if it had ended with Shep and Anderson enjoying the view... that would have been a good ending. Odd in some ways, rushed, disappointing somewhat, but ultimately acceptable to me. Well, 160 pages into this thread, we know that didn't happen.

If the EC isn't at least an honest attempt to reconnect to me as a player - if they are unable to assess and diagnose the problems their last minute plotslide caused - then I would have to look at every single product they came out with and ask myself:

- Is this a stand-alone game? If so, how well does it review? (never pre-ordering again)
- If it is part of a planned series, should I even bother with it until it is finished? If I wait that long, and reviews on the trilogy finale are good, will stepping back half a decade in gaming make sense for me at that time? Probably not. Thus, I simply wouldn't buy their products anymore.

So the EC needs to be a legit attempt to fix this, and not cinematic bondo and duct tape to hide the gaping hole in the narrative. I don't even have to like it. I just need to have my faith restored that there was some kind of plan that went beyond "speculation for everyone" and torching the plot, characters and iconography of their world because it was their sandcastle to stomp out in the name of artistic integrity.

I know I cannot trust their PR. I am learning that their storytelling is becoming erratic and poorly directed. If they are going to make me invest emotionally in a world they intend to destroy - and charge me for the privelege of feeling sh-tty - then I don't need to play that game.

[clos]

And the ending remains thematically revolting. Pathetic.

[BigglesFlysAgain]

Hmmm Where to start with the EC?

I won't do a very good job but I am sure it will make the rest of you look better

**** EC spoilers**** Though this is a spoilers forum you have been warned again...

Ok

Destroy...

Does seem to kill the geth and edi... so it seem the "tweets" hinting that he could be lying about this were false...

Galaxy rebuilding seems mostly straightforward, crew survive... but annoyingly in the best destroy ending they leave his/her own survival up to your own interpretation as before with the breathing scene.


The "Rejection ending"

A lot of people seem to be insulted by this ending (where Shepard says screw you, everyone dies, and its revealed the next cycle won thanks to liaras messages) that it's biowares "middle finger"...

I mean its what people asked for, though I don't think they always wanted it to end in defeat . Its actually quite funny that it can be triggered in two ways, in the conversation with the catalyst or by actually shooting at the little blighter! I think people who want shepard to act more "in character" would choose this, just for his speech, though remember you are dooming everyone to keep your own morals intact.


So the results of destroy do condone genocide, but this time the catalyst phrases it differently, saying all "synthetics" will be targeted, but he does not name drop this time, but obviously its up to individual shepards consider what he means by "all synthetics", but its possible they have more of an excuse to think its not 100% likely the Geth will die. but again this is not the perfect option sadly.


Even knowing more about synthesis I still can't choose it, even if its better. Everyone seems to be getting on alright but it still feels like brainwashing to me, the future they are building may be something to aspire too, but it still forces everyone to think that way, people may feel the synthesis gave them this epiphany about reality and the universe and made them all happy, but it was still forced on them. And since EDI narates this ending, we only get a previously synthetic perspective on synthesis, we don't know how an organic feels about it, though obviously they seem to be happy, but theres no insight for us.


I have not yet looked into control... but it might actually be better than the other two now lol.

I think if the game shiped with endings like these, there would have been a much smaller backlash, sure they are still mostly thematicaly revolting, but most people were originaly upset by the "everyones dead" factor.

But at this stage for me the genie is out of the bottle, the horse has bolted, I can't unsee the endings, and I can't unjade myself...

They needed somthing a bit better sadley, the endings were a bit happier yes, but they did not seem to go for the full exploit players feelings LI reunion, though it seems possible this way, but again even if there was that sort of thing I would still feel like a bastard for killing the geth, so beyond selectiviely editing the cutscenes to make a "happy" ending theres not a lot you can really do.

So in summary, I still can't favour one over the other, and reject is just for a laugh. or if you come at the game with really low ems and can't "afford" synthesis


Though I think now I have found option five...

Hint: it involves my copy of me3 and a really dark and damp storage conatainer at the bottom of my garden... a time capusule to warn future generations about the dangers of trying to be invested in a game trilogy.


Edit... its so funny, after finding more out about control, it actualy seems better than the other two... most of us have dismissed it out of hand as the "it will never work, just look at TIM" ect, but its not nearly as bad as it might be lol

Modifié par BigglesFlysAgain, 26 juin 2012 - 05:27 .

[Devil Mingy]

Well, I've gone through the four high EMS endings. Overall, it didn't really "save" the game for me, though I doubt anything Bioware could've done with their original vision would do so. It's nice that they backpedaled on the destruction of the relays and let us have a dialogue with the Catalyst and the wonderful option to refuse him (Better to die on your feet than live on your knees). The slideshow of different things and the memorial scene were great touches. Plus, they do clarify most of the choices, so there's not as much room for interpretation in what the Catalyst is saying and doing.

However, it doesn't solve the root of the problem with the ending. The Catalyst is still not palatable, I still don't buy that the Reapers are supposed to be the good guys (or, at the very least, a necessary evil), and Synthesis is still very poorly explained. I also thought that the extra scene with the Normandy and Harbinger actually made that part even dumber.

Given that they stuck to their original vision, this is probably the best out of that bad situation. Sadly, I just don't feel that that's quite enough. I really can't see myself playing through ME3 again. Still, this Extended Cut does give me some kind of personal closure with the series itself. Now, I feel like I can walk away.

[TheSimbul]

Made Nightwing wrote...

So, my lit professor and I are nerds. I throw in 'but the prize' references on my essays about Odysseus and Achilles, he throws in Firefly references in his lectures, we get on great. Now, I've previously mentioned that he disliked the endings EDIT: He dropped in on the forum to correct my paraphrasing of our conversation, so I'm updating the OP to have his infinitely superior original words replace my own feeble attempts:

Drayfish, p.13:
 

*Applauds*

This. What an extraordinary way to put down in words what so many of us feel.

Bioware, take note.

[AGogley]

Seijin8 wrote...

KitaSaturnyne said... "I'm just questioning this nihilistic tendency people have where if Company A disappoints them with something, they immediately just refuse to buy anything from said company every again. An all-or-nothing deal. I don't understand it."

It isn't just ME3, though. For me, this started with DA:O. I wanted to really love that game, but I couldn't. It was good, but not great (to me). The DLC that came out for it was wildly subpar. (Excluding Shale, who was really just a reincarnation of HK-47.)

So I was hesitant to go with DA2, and the reviews were a turn off. Many people thought they dropped the ball in a storytelling sense. 2 strikes.

ME3... if it had ended with Shep and Anderson enjoying the view... that would have been a good ending. Odd in some ways, rushed, disappointing somewhat, but ultimately acceptable to me. Well, 160 pages into this thread, we know that didn't happen.

If the EC isn't at least an honest attempt to reconnect to me as a player - if they are unable to assess and diagnose the problems their last minute plotslide caused - then I would have to look at every single product they came out with and ask myself:

- Is this a stand-alone game? If so, how well does it review? (never pre-ordering again)
- If it is part of a planned series, should I even bother with it until it is finished? If I wait that long, and reviews on the trilogy finale are good, will stepping back half a decade in gaming make sense for me at that time? Probably not. Thus, I simply wouldn't buy their products anymore.

So the EC needs to be a legit attempt to fix this, and not cinematic bondo and duct tape to hide the gaping hole in the narrative. I don't even have to like it. I just need to have my faith restored that there was some kind of plan that went beyond "speculation for everyone" and torching the plot, characters and iconography of their world because it was their sandcastle to stomp out in the name of artistic integrity.

I know I cannot trust their PR. I am learning that their storytelling is becoming erratic and poorly directed. If they are going to make me invest emotionally in a world they intend to destroy - and charge me for the privelege of feeling sh-tty - then I don't need to play that game.

I'm in complete agreement here.  For me it started with KOTOR, although in fairness to Bioware it wasn't theirs after the first one.  I didn't care for the ending in DA and word on the ending of DA2 prevented me from buying it.  ME3 as a franchise doesn't appeal to me in terms of replay value because of the horrible ending.  In the future, I'll pay more attention to reviews and the boards before buying a Bioware product.

[Tallestra]

As already other people said, the EC didn't fix the main problem with the endings, they are still thematically revolting. As a matter of fact, now, seeing consequences I will choose destruct again, even more, I would choose destruct even if it will kill humans instead of geth, others solutions are just to dangerous to me.

And fourth solution, well we are offered to kill everyone instead of one race, although there is a good probability that my Shepard would choose this one, but then realizing that I'll be condemning everyone I would tell SC that I'm forced to agree to his terms. What I found very insulting in fourth solution is again theme of it. Shepard says directly in dialog that she prefers to keep her values intact, and then we have Liara telling that we did our best and still failed. So, the message that we get is it doesn't matter how hard we work, it doesn't matter if we do our best, we still will fail, and, oh, keeping our core values are not really worth it. Really nice message BW, I wanted the ending with reapers winning, but as a result of us failing to do our best (low EMS), not as a punishment for sticking for what we believe.

And then I watched original but extended endings, and while all of them were uplifting (and very nicely done, some very touching and beautiful moments) the only one that didn't give me a creeps was a destruction ending. But then of course you have to remember the price - genocide.

Control looked nice at the beginning (still love the presentation, why the hell we didn't have this first time, it would really helped to diminish negative reaction), But the more Shepard was going on about how he's going to protect and to improve life in our galaxy, the more disturbing it became. How long before this entity that originated in Shepard will decide that his way is the best way for the galaxy, and will use the power in his hands to force his will on the galaxy, in the best intentions of course. Yes, it is Shepard (who can still be renegade btw who suddenly gains access to nearly absolute power), but who knows how he will change in centuries to come.

Oh, synthesis, the one that I hated from the first moment. There was enough discussion here for and against, but seeing how eyes of everyone in the galaxy were becoming green was very creepy. It was like some sort of a dirge for diversity of life in our galaxy, I kinda always was in love with Vulcan philosophy of IDIC (infinite diversity in infinite combination) from Star Trek (we must not forget that synthetic life coexisted with organic there, and ironically Borg were result of synthesis). Btw, synthesis was nicely presented in David Brin Uplift series. So, this forceful homogenization of life is revolting to me. And then these images of people working friendly alongside reapers only added to creepiness of the situation. After all the losses that we suffered from the reapers to accept them calmly and friendly it's just impossible without something overwriting out brains and making us accept the situation. Yah, peace is nice, and I actually hoped for some kind of peaceful resolution, but it has to come from our actions, our convictions, our choice, not to be forced on us.

All in all, I'm disappointed in such miserable end to a beloved series, that made me really care about pixels on the screen. I would say that this is unique trait in BW game, to create such story and the characters that they become nearly real. But for some reason it seems like they didn't understand that it is what attracts people to their games, otherwise they wouldn't be so surprised that we wanted closure for our characters.

PS. English is not my language, so sorry, if not all of my ramblings is comprehensible

[bushes289]

Been lurking here for a while, finally posting something.

It feels like synthesis was the one bioware wanted us to choose, sure the star brat says that they tried it before but it didn't work because couldn't be forced. But I fail to see how Shepard who is only person choosing it and forcing it on everyone means that organics are now ready for it. I despise it because it's an obvious attempt to make people better.

I haven't really formed an opinion on destroy beyond rage at the ambiguous breath scene still surrounded by concrete that should not be on the citadel.

The rejection ending is exactly what a lot of people asked for but it feels like we were children who wanted cake, and instead of being given the cake it was thrown in our face.

Control is my favorite of only because of how creepy it is, everything is going to move forward based on catalyst Shepard's vision. It's like Shepard is a parent who won't know how to let his/her children go, keep them safe and close forever when they should be free to make their own mistakes, it seems very tragic in a fitting way. Shepard has always been the one tasked to save everyone, now he/she will protect them from themselves forever. Sure it's twisted, but I think it works because it's supposed to be disturbing.

Modifié par bushes289, 26 juin 2012 - 09:43 .

[jbauck]

So I've now played it. I have not viewed all endings (I've read brief descriptions of the Synthesis and Control endings, and have personally seen Refuse and Destroy).

First, the Catalyst. Yes, the Catalyst is clarified and recontextualized ... they clarify that yes, the Catalyst is an insane monster.

When exploring the dialogue options, the Catalyst reveals that he was created by an organic race (of no given name) to keep a balance between synthetics and organics. But chaos and strife persisted. They kept fighting each other, no matter how many times the Catalyst fixed things, and ... basically, got tired of all that **** and Reaperized his creators. Against their will. Because it was for their own good, and fit his core programming imperative "keep synthetic/organic balance".

I can't stop snickering. Really, I just can't stop snickering. It would be sad if it weren't so damn >funny<. BioWare doubled-down on the Catalyst. *snicker*

What I really want to talk about, though, is the Refuse ending. Epic Trolling? Or Epic Win? I mean, people were clamoring for a "Refuse" option, and BioWare basically said "Fine, here it is, but if you pick it, you lose ... losers!1!!!!"

And yet ... and yet. I'm sorry, I have to reverse-troll BioWare and everyone else on that one. It really is the best ending. It's a downer, granted, but beautifully so - and reminiscent of nothing so much as the wrenching story Vigil tells in ME1 about the Prothean Scientists who used the Conduit to get to the Citadel and shut down the keeper signal, giving the next cycle a better chance of defeating the Reapers.

Even though the Catalyst says that the Crucible was designed by organics "several cycles ago", there's just nothing in the new "clarified" ending that disabuses me of the notion that the Crucible and the Catalyst and these "choices" are a Reaper Trick. Refusing to accept, and holding on to the hope that the next cycle will be able to defeat the Reapers on their own terms, is actually kind of awesome.

Yes, my perfect ending would involve Shepard standing on Harbinger's corpse at the end of the game, but ... that is not an option. So, truly - the three original options are still so morally repugnant, that to refuse and doom this cycle in the hope that the next will do better is far more satisfying.  In fact, I found the image of a holographic Liara explaining about the Reaper War is far more hopeful and uplifting an image than anything that was in the original set of endings - and the Stargazer is replaced with a female voice-actress, a vaguely asari-looking silhouette, and she's telling the kid about The Shepard.  They learned about The Shepard from the "archives" ... the same "archives" that mean the Reapers aren't a threat anymore.

Modifié par jbauck, 26 juin 2012 - 11:05 .

[Hawk227]

@jbauck

I heard about the Refusal ending and decided to download it earlier than I had planned. I have to say, go watch the Control and Synthesis endings they're pretty outrageous.

In synthesis, EDI narratates the epilogue and tells us repeatedly that "she's alive" because apparently she wasn't alive before and everybody has creepy growing green eyes. It's very much portrayed as the "best", but I still think its the worst. The Catalyst tells us they tried it before, but it didn't work because you can't force it... but now we can force it. Huh?

In Control, Shepard with the Reaper synthesizer talks in the third person over imperial march like music and tells us about how he now has an Army that noone will dare oppose while shots of Reapers feverishly fixing the Relays is shown. It's all very creepy.

They definitely doubled down on all the things people didn't like, but gave us a little context which I suppose was nice in a sense. I agree that the Refusal ending is the best one. It actually felt kind of poetic, Die standing rather than living on your knees.

Ultimately I think its too little too late. If this was on the disc, it may have been borderline acceptable (maybe not), but having received months of feedback and criticism, it's just not good enough. They stuck to their guns when they ought to have admitted they just screwed up.

EDIT: I think part of the reason refuse genuinely works, is because they clarified that the Catalyst is an insane monster. There's now some pretty compelling context (as opposed to subtext, I guess) to justify saying, "you're nuts, I'm not playing anymore".

Modifié par Hawk227, 26 juin 2012 - 11:22 .