5087 réponses à ce sujet

[jbauck]

I'm a big believer in "Don't Buy Interactive Fiction From People Who Tell Crappy Stories", but I draw the line at uninstalling games that I've paid for, enjoyed for years, and can replay again. The original KoToR is freakin' awesome - and I Will Not give up my NWN2 toolset. I love that thing.

But I deeply disliked DA2. This isn't a DA2 forum, so I'm not going to rant through specifics, but the entire game felt like an exercise in futility. The ending of ME3 turned the entire ME series into an exercise in futility. "You're just the Player Character in a Video Game ... you didn't actually think you could change anything, did you?" <insert troll face here>

There is no way at all I will even briefly entertain the notion of pre-ordering DA3. If the reviews are good (user reviews, not pro reviews), and I have been spoiled on the ending and it's a destination worth spending time and money to get to, I will pick it up when it is on sale for twenty bucks. Or even better, I'll buy it used, if that's still even possible by the time DA3 comes out.

[Tallestra]

Chrislo1990 wrote...

Guys just imagine if we hadn't complained about the broken endings to the degree that we did? What kind of message would it have conveyed to Bioware? That they can rush out games and not beat themselves over quality storylines because in the end their artistic integrity would be there to protect them from our complaints? Just think about that for a while. What do you guys think?
 

The cynical me thinks that that's exactly what happened. The released rushed and unfinished game and hoped that their reputation and fan's dedication will carry them through. The same thing happened with reused environments in DA2. That we will eat whatever is given to us and will say "more, please". While I don't hope that they will learn how to write good stories (well, some of them do know, as evidenced by some parts of the game), I hope that BW, EA and other game company will learn that fans do draw line somewhere and won't accept unfinished product.

[Spartas Husky]

I just read the OP... my god... somewhat hard to comprehend in some lines but... is nerd rage and the concious impulses to slap casey put in an elegant, yet firm fashion.

Thank your teacher for me. If you do not mind I will copy your OP and save it.

[frypan]

@Fapmaster

Good to see you keeping up spirits with some true graveyard humour. Ever heard of a place called Gallipoli? It was a nasty little campaign in WW1 that ended in defeat, but that we in Australia have turned into a statement of national character. Your trench humour is right at home under the current circumstances.

@Kita

Your little gangster piece had more of a positive message than Bioware’s faux deep nonsense about powerlessness. It captured ideas like friendship and hope, even in defeat, in ways the EC could never possibly do. Take heart from that.

@osbornep

The SMDS article was good. I may be the only Browns fan anywhere on a landmass the size of the United Kingdom, so my rage at Football franchises screams loudly into a very large and indifferent void. That was a timely reminder to look beyond the smiles and handshakes for sure.

@MrFob and Fapmaster

I still think we still need to isolate the tone and theme of the third game from the first two. Something, or someone got broke there, and this is the result. I’m not going to let it ruin my enjoyment of the franchise.

I don’t care if the resulting head canon puts me in a rubber cell, with a toy Normandy made of my own poop. Audience interpretation is as important as general reception. Ask Virgil. The story goes Augustus made such good propaganda use of Virgil’s Aeneid, on his deathbed he demanded it be burned.

If I can subvert the end of ME3 with my own message, I might be able to do the same, just as Delta and others have done with the reject ending. I take pleasure in the idea that many years from now certain writers will be demanding that ME3 be burned after their “artistic integrity” is negated by audience reinterpretation.

“Burn Mass Effect,” a certain not to be named developer will say, “They took it and made it mean something positive!”

To all,

Bioware may take the wrong lessons from this, but we haven’t, and that is something to take heart in. I am much more aware and intolerant of poor games development, as evidenced by my complete lack of games purchases since this happened. Same goes for poor journalism, and I have been letting a few subscriptions lapse, but not out of pique. They simply fail to meet my new standards for games journalism. This is good. We cannot change big business, but we can ensure that its influence on us as individuals is marginalised.

And who knows. If Bioware, and other developers look at this and recognise that a crap ending wont cut it, good. They can bury the situation in PR nonsense, and backslap themselves galore with positive reinforcement, but they will still know they missed the mark here. Personally I’d like to see this obsession with needlessly dark stories put to bed, so maybe next time they wont retconn a miserable, and thematically incongruent message onto an otherwise exemplary series.

Gabe Newell recently stated to a bunch of indies the importance of placing the customer first. Bioware may have become a bit arrogant and self-congratulatory due to the past devotion of its fans, so it will never admit they didn’t do this. However I also think that the bungled PR, at least in regards to the central fan base, will teach them that they cannot take folks for granted. Arrogant and superior PR types have failed to realise this, due to their usual success when the target audience is willing to go along with them.

Hopefully, just hopefully, Bioware will learn a lesson and recognise that self-indulgent hogwash is not  acceptable to its fans, no matter how many pretty colours it comes in.

Modifié par frypan, 28 juin 2012 - 07:30 .

[Grotaiche]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I would pay one thousand dollars for that.

I am not in any way exaggerating. I would cancel a goddam vacation for that. I'd sell my DVD collection. I'd do whatever it takes to raise a thousand dollars if that was the price they put on not being a monster.

What about a fan-made ending ? Not a fanfic or a comic or an e-book but a real ending, integrated into the game itself ?
I did not mean to "go public" with this so soon but seeing how desperate people are, I thought I'd mention it. This is still much "technical mumbo-jumbo" as we are still figuring out how to change most stuff in ME3 files but it gets better and better.

Sorry for the off-topic post.

[drayfish]

 
Huh. Well that was a hell of a thing.
 
 
Sorry for the absence, I've been travelling and was unable to get anywhere near the game for a few days. The desire to see the result of the new conclusion was overwhelming, but frankly I was more eager to get back in here – to this thread and it's marvellous discussion. And I am stunned by the level of intelligent discourse and evaluation that has been going on in here since the Extended Cut rolled out. New voices, new views (both for and against the endings), some phenomenal alternate endings and reactions to the final product. I am truly glad to see that some people have been able to make peace with the new endings, and even to enjoy them (although I must say I share the pain of those who remain unsatisfied). 
 
Once again I am reminded of how extraordinarily lucky I am to be part of this conversation; and frankly, I am very impressed – in fact, in awe – that everyone has managed such exquisite insight and descriptive prose, because to be honest, my visceral response has not been so cogent, nor so objectively rational. Indeed, my reaction to the end was considerably more heated... So fair warning, this is going to get mighty hyperbolic.  I've not edited it for content since first sitting down to spill it all out (thus I apologise for the moments in which I reiterate what's already been said; at the time I had not yet read everyone else's responses...)
 
 
So I downloaded; I loaded; I played. There she was: Tess Shepard, alive again and still fighting. Right where my mind had left her, blocking out the original, hurried conclusion like some suppressed traumatic memory. It was like I was back in a dream. She stormed through the Cerberus base, returned to the Normandy to feed her fish one last time, then sprinted toward the beam, saw some horror, farewelled the man who had been her mentor, and readied herself to die. Then the elevator rose and I felt it flood back in: the rising panic that all my numb confusions were just going to spool out all over again.
 
I cannot express the glee I felt at finding there was a fourth option. 
 
We – we did it, I thought. The fans and Bioware connected. They saw what was wrong! They felt the pain. They never wanted to put their audience through all that!  Force those who despised the endings down a cattle grid of moral slaughter. Suddenly it was clear that they were going to offer a new way: perhaps not necessarily a better way, but new. For those who remained unnerved by the endings, here was the alternate path; the means to preserve what had meant most to them about their Shepard, and to still defeat the big bad. To stand up and glare it down. To maybe take some hits, but to never acquiesce, not aligning ourselves with the enemy and embracing their psychosis.
 
And so, in spite of the emotional devastation of her last experience tottering on that spot, Tess rallied. She rose: a resounding, towering figure. A silhouette amidst the blaze of ruination around her. Damn right we will not bend, she seemed to be saying. We will not lose faith. We'll fight on, in a universe of cruel, dispassionate violence and hate, to forge a path of unity and reassert our indomitable will. We will not be terrified and bullied into submission to some sacrifice of virtue. You cannot lay us on an altar and cut the very heart out of our spirit.
 
And so, after months of being haunted by this moment, I got to tell Haley Joel Osmont to screw off. Got to tell him right to his smirking little face that his endless, cyclical scheme was madness, and that he was but an unhinged monster on a witless rampage. No matter what his original intentions had once been (I imagined that I got to say), he was nothing but a ghoul now, a husk devoid of purpose, bringing darkness and pain wherever his shadow was cast. A mockery to the very life he was trying to 'preserve'.
 
And so, Tess Shepard selected the fourth option, and I readied myself to watch the Reapers feel what happens when the downtrodden bite back...
 
But instead, the whole goddamn universe ended. 
 
Was wiped out. 
 
I saw a galaxy of life get flamed away in an instant – even after the cause of all that devastation had agreed with me that his ridiculous plan no longer worked. I had shown the villain the flaw in this scheme; he had admitted that his solution was no longer acceptable; but he decided to go and do it anyway. What the hell?  The gasoline was already spilled. Why waste it? Like a frenzied child he lit it up because I refused to obey, because I wasn't willing to perpetuate his narrow vision of existence.
 
In honesty, this has got to be the most heartbreaking meta-textual moment of narrative I have ever experienced; final proof that the whole promise of individuated interaction that drew me to the Mass Effect universe in the first place (and that was repeated ad nauseum in Bioware's marketing for half a decade) was a complete misinterpretation on my behalf. This was not my story. This was never my universe. I fell in love with these characters, but I was never fighting beside them. I really was just looking through the window as they talked amongst themselves, imagining what I might say if I was there. I never talked Samara out of killing herself; I never helped Thane reconnect with his son; I never tempted a traumatised biotic to reconnect with the world; I certainly never stared down a Krogan. I pressed buttons. I stared at a screen. Watched polygons dance.
 
For months I've been hearing critics who decry the fans that have voiced their displeasure at the ending say 'Why are you getting so upset? It's just a game'. And not only could I not agree with this sentiment, but on many levels, I literally couldn't even understand what such a sentiment meant. It wasn't just a game. It was a world in which you were invited to live: to participate in and influence. It was a reactive agent, and you were –  Well, you were any other term than the 'Catalyst'. 
 
Or it was.
 
I guess the final message of Mass Effect, the message its creators went to extra pains to communicate, was that yes: it was just a game. There was a structure and there were parameters, and unless you agree to the win-scenario in its absolute moral vacuum, you forfeit your right to success.
 
Because I refused to play according to the rigid, objectionable rules that Bioware laid down in the final moments of the game, I watched a galaxy of beauty and grace annihilated, and got to acutely feel that it was all my fault. Hell, I was even told I failed by the companion tasked with cataloguing my fight for the ages.
 
I tried to play by my rules (the rules I had been led to believe up until that point were at the heart of the experience), and was punished for it. Foolishly, I tried to hold on to the beliefs that I thought made human beings more than automatons.  Critical Mission Failure. You lose. What a f---ing jerk I turned out to be. 
 
So Merry Christmas universe: I tried to respect the splendour of individuality and doomed us all to hell.
 
Instead I got to watch the galaxy spin on until someone else was willing to come along and push the button I couldn't. Either way, the only way life perpetuates is through an act of fear and moral compromise. Life will go on, but the standard of that life is irrelevant. The principles upon which it is now founded are genocide, domination, or the arrogance of compelled mutation. Three games, all leading up to a final thesis of moral futility. 
 
And to add the final insult, it all still gets credited to 'The Shepard', even though the thought of such an eventuality literally killed her.
 
A whimper, not a bang. 
 
Yay nihilism.
 
 
To give them credit, Bioware did ultimately let me reject the three endings that I continued to see as repellent, but the price was that I was no longer permitted to exist in their world anymore. Indeed, they vowed to torch it all down rather they let me spend another second there: 'The universe ends now. You can see your own way out.'
 
As the credits rolled and I saw the creators names pass by all I could feel is that it would have been nice if they had have let me know all this three games ago: that I, and my dorky little ideals, weren't welcome.  Bioware disabused me of my misconception that I was ever part of their vision. I guess I was just fuel for that purging fire that the Catalyst wanted to unleash upon the galaxy – too mired in my primitive hopes and faith to exist in his new galactic order. 
 
But I guess if I hadn't taken the ride I would never have enjoyed such rich characters, and I certainly would never have met all you wonderful folks on this thread.  

And it's true: you can't grieve for something if you didn't love it first.
 
 
Goodbye Mass Effect.
 
 
Tess Shepard
 
N7 officer and first human spectre.
 
Born on Mindoir on April 11, 2154.
 
She lived through the Mindoir slaver raid and proved her valour in the Skylian Blitz.
 
She saved the Citadel and Galactic Council against Reaper attack, and survived a journey through the Omega 4 Relay to stop the Collector incursions.
 
She helped cure the Gennophage, honouring the wishes of one of its creators, and was a pivotal figure in negotiating the burgeoning peace between the Geth and the Quarians.
 
She amassed the largest unified defence force in the history of the universe.
 
Killed in action.
 
Bled to death on the bridge of the failed Crucible project.
 
She fought, but all hope was lost.
 

Modifié par drayfish, 28 juin 2012 - 10:36 .

[Niostang]

If I ever meet you drayfish, I owe you several drinks.

[frypan]

Heartbreaking stuff Drayfish, and farewell Tess. You stood strong for your beliefs when all went dark.

Modifié par frypan, 28 juin 2012 - 11:01 .

[3DandBeyond]

Bigdoser wrote...

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

Alright, I have a moment here to expand on my thoughts about the ending from my rapidly degrading post-chain last night. Sleep, time, and other duties have given time for the sediment in my brain to settle out, and bring "clarity" to why the EC bothers me, so very, very much.

First, these endings ARE better than what we got. The most obvious holes are patched over, the logical flaws and gameplay failures are addressed, and the endings expand on the "why" and "what next" questions raised by the original endings. These endings are appropriate, on target, and thematically consistent with a solitary vision of the ending. I still don't believe that theme and vision matches with the rest of the series, but this is an ending that I should dislike not and ending that should send me cackling away from my keyboard with black humor and sarcastic antipathy.

For those who don't know me, my reaction to "hate" is not anger, or fury. It manifests as a sudden dismissal, a "you aren't even worth my time" sneer and a string of sarcastic comments in response to every word spoken or written. I will not give you, or your progeny, the time of day. You are not worth my hate, so I make you object of derision, an un-person who produces pathetic un-things. This is probably not a healthy reaction, but it's the reaction I felt towards the EC, from the moment "we failed" was contrasted with the sunshine and rainbows of synthesis, and I had to know why I turned on it. I was relatively hopeful going in. I'd constructed threads discussing how to patch over the ending, how they might do it. The main one was "Threading the Needle", and I was correct on MANY points of the "how" they would fix it. So why did it bother me so much?

The answer is in the "why", or rather, the "where did this come from".

For some of you, you may remember a long winded and (surprisingly) emotional post I made in this thread, weeks ago, about a long-derailed campaign I had run. For those of you who are new to this thread, or simply saw the size of that post and decided "screw that", I'll break it down, quickly. I ran a long-term, story and character driven game with friends. It was reputed as one of the best games in town/college, and I took pride in it. Eventually, though, I attempted something that proved foolhardy, an "artistic" arc and ending that drove a spike into the players' hearts. The game broke down, violently, and friendships ended. I was left wondering, "What the hell just happened? That was the most ambitious and awesome thing I've ever run!"

The reply I quickly drew up, was that I'd forgotten the most important piece of the puzzle, the players. They'd been ground under by ambition and artistry, and snapped under a miserable theme and context. (Go read about it if you want to see it, it was bad.) Some reached out to me, I reached out to more, and apologies were exchanged all around, and eventually, most came back (one left town, but still tries to stay in contact). I rebooted the game, and we all learned some lessons. As the DM, the man behind the curtain, I learned the most, on how to respond better to what the players wanted, how to make a better game, and strike a better balance between my desires and the desires of the players around the table. We all have a lot more fun, because of that.

So I look at the EC, and I see shades of that, but not quite. I spent time, little money, and emotional self-analysis to meet the players in the middle, to see if from their perspective, and deliver my universe in a way that they could enjoy, to make it our story. They spent a lot of time and money, trying to explain to us why they were correct.

If I'd come to my players, or waited until they'd come to me, and then broken down, step by step, why they were simply incorrect, and the ending I'd planned was the perfect one, they'd have walked right back out, and had every right to. No one likes being treated like that, especially when they are correct in their objections. Yet, that's what Bioware did! They spent money (so much money) and time, bringing the actors in, developing cut scenes, risking their very series... to explain that we were wrong.

This is so wrong headed it makes me ill. Hubris and willful ignorance collide into a murky soup. They addressed the surface of what was wrong "oh, Joker left you because he was ordered to, but completely ignored the meat of the objections: the thematic break, the sudden, soul-crushing and inconsistent tenor of the endings. They made them mechanically better. They fixed the guts of their art, but they never confronted the chief objection that their "art" had betrayed their audience, and indeed, their own prior works.

The amount of resources, the quality of polish, only compound this. How much money did they spend, how much time was devoted, into a arrogantly informing us that we were wrong and they were right? The hubris only increases when you consider that they are gambling the possible future of their company on the idea that they do not need to address their audience, and that the problem with Mass Effect 3 was not in anything they did, but totally and completely upon our failure to understand their brilliance.

It's not in the game alone. The game alone, when held in an isolated thought bubble, only hints of this (as Hawk and jBauck were able to enjoy the game by ignoring the metatext), but when combined with the authorial intent expressed in the metatext, paints a disturbing portrait of arrogance and dismissal.

• Rejection does not solve anything. You die alone, wrong, and a coward for your principles, and you all lose.
• The next cycle uses the Crucible that you were too stupid not to.
• The next cycle uses the VERY SAME CRUCIBLE that you left behind, because the Reapers thought you, the player, was so stupid that they didn't even destroy it.
• The interview with Hudson, Walters, and Merizan was such a fapfest that it broke corporate spin records, but that was to be expected. Everyone spins. The problem was the direction of the spin. It was more "people didn't understand" and "people wanted more of our awesome". There was no acknowledgement of validity in the complaints.

This list goes on, a slew of slights and grievances, all minor on their own, but which showcase a distressing worldview.

They did not do any soul searching. There was no admission of failure, or even of culpability to the endings. The fault was entirely upon the audience, and they deigned to lowered themselves from their cloud, not to meet with us, but to dispense more of their wisdom. And why? Not to address our concerns, our concerns were below addressing,but to make the clamoring mob shut up and eat their cake. It was the noise they heard, not the words, and it was the noise they addressed, and now wait for praise.

They didn't have to do this. They went out of their way to make Reject a slap in the face. They could have just had it lose, and that would have been fine, but they colored that loss in the worst shades of "you failed" they possibly could. IF THEY WENT THROUGH THE TROUBLE OF ADDING THAT CHOICE, TO ADDRESS THOSE WHO ASKED FOR IT, WHY DID THEY THEN GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO SPITE IT?

This boggles my mind! In their response to fan criticism, they took the hardest road: they added gameplay, in direct response to critique, but then spent their resources to deliberately make that new option not address the concerns it was ostensibly aimed towards. Then, when that proved to not be enough, they clarified in metatext that EVEN THAT WAS NOT ENOUGH, and you still lost even the point you stood upon, after you'd lost everything else, since the next cycle did what you were too dumb to do.

They changed nothing, but they spent capital, time, and reputation to do so. If they'd simply wanted to stick to their guns, they could have, should have, done that with simple interviews or metatext. "This was our story, this was our point. It may not be for everyone, but here's how and why we did it." That would have been fine. I'd have disagreed, but accepted.

Instead, they spent this vast investment, to extend the narrative and slap me across the face for not properly appreciating what they'd done. It's a betrayal of the fans, and the greater that fan's appreciation for themes and insight, the greater the power of the slap. This was the opposite of what I did with my group of friends. When they held out a hand, I took it, and we addressed the problem together. When we held out our hand, they spat in it, insulted us, and pushed us aside.

This is a story of hubris. This is a story of dismissal. The ending is appropriate. To Bioware, or at least the Mass Effect team, the lesser party must obey the greater. There is no hope, there is no compromise, no mutual respect. You accept what your given, mongrel, and enjoy it, be it starby's twisted solution or the writer's twisted expansion.

Well, good people, I reject you, both in and out of game, and while inside your playbox, you are God and the devil, able to rig the endings, you have no such say over my mind. There, I am sovereign, and I reject years of your work that I've let colonize my thoughts. I have my own thoughts, my own works. I'll stick to those. I have my own world, my own goals. I'll chase those.

I reject you, all your works, and all your empty promises.

I'm done.

ADDENDUM:

Some spare thoughts while I sip my coffee and check for errors: Only now do I truly grok to the title of this thread. Before, I hated the endings. Now I despise them, and for me, there is a difference. The original endings were incomplete, incorrectly delivered, and much of their damage was done through failure. Here, and now, we see the successful conclusion to their vision, and the only way I can describe my revulsion to it is this: A better delivered atrocity is not a better atrocity.

These are my exact thoughts as well the fact that the next cycle used the crucible is a slap in the face. I agree with everything in this post.

This is exactly how I feel.  I hated the endings before.  I now despise them, because I now know they were intentional.  They were horrible and the things added to them to "explain" them are those things they thought we were too dumb to just understand-we were supposed to read their minds.  They made the star kid "program" even more demented and now people buy it because he explains more.  It's still the star kid spouting garbage.  And reject--well, when people did complain about it the only response to it was on twitter by JM that says it was created because people wanted it.  Yeah, they wanted to refuse to choose these stupid things, but apparently their reading abilities don't extend into the core meaning of statements and can't go beyond the words because.  We wanted to reject the choices because they were dumb and abhorrent and they still are, they just sound prettier now.  They decided to ignore our reasons and even our intent at using any reject option.  They made it an insta-kill that we were obviously stupid to pick.  Their intent is obvious.  Our intent was more obvious-our wishes, reasons, and thoughts were out there if anyone cared to read.  They didn't.

[drayfish]

frypan wrote...

Heartbreaking stuff Drayfish, and farewell Tess. You stood strong for your beliefs when all went dark.

Thanks, frypan. That means a lot. 

And by the many gods (including Batman), I loved your account of that meta-textual implication of the ending.  Very compelling, and I'm sad to say, precisely what I was feeling.

[Jadebaby]

drayfish wrote...

 
Huh. Well that was a hell of a thing.
 
 
Sorry for the absence, I've been travelling and was unable to get anywhere near the game for a few days. The desire to see the result of the new conclusion was overwhelming, but frankly I was more eager to get back in here – to this thread and it's marvellous discussion. And I am stunned by the level of intelligent discourse and evaluation that has been going on in here since the Extended Cut rolled out. New voices, new views (both for and against the endings), some phenomenal alternate endings and reactions to the final product. I am truly glad to see that some people have been able to make peace with the new endings, and even to enjoy them (although I must say I share the pain of those who remain unsatisfied). 
 
Once again I am reminded of how extraordinarily lucky I am to be part of this conversation; and frankly, I am very impressed – in fact, in awe – that everyone has managed such exquisite insight and descriptive prose, because to be honest, my visceral response has not been so cogent, nor so objectively rational. Indeed, my reaction to the end was considerably more heated... So fair warning, this is going to get mighty hyperbolic.  I've not edited it for content since first sitting down to spill it all out (thus I apologise for the moments in which I reiterate what's already been said; at the time I had not yet read everyone else's responses...)
 
 
So I downloaded; I loaded; I played. There she was: Tess Shepard, alive again and still fighting. Right where my mind had left her, blocking out the original, hurried conclusion like some suppressed traumatic memory. It was like I was back in a dream. She stormed through the Cerberus base, returned to the Normandy to feed her fish one last time, then sprinted toward the beam, saw some horror, farewelled the man who had been her mentor, and readied herself to die. Then the elevator rose and I felt it flood back in: the rising panic that all my numb confusions were just going to spool out all over again.
 
I cannot express the glee I felt at finding there was a fourth option. 
 
We – we did it, I thought. The fans and Bioware connected. They saw what was wrong! They felt the pain. They never wanted to put their audience through all that!  Force those who despised the endings down a cattle grid of moral slaughter. Suddenly it was clear that they were going to offer a new way: perhaps not necessarily a better way, but new. For those who remained unnerved by the endings, here was the alternate path; the means to preserve what had meant most to them about their Shepard, and to still defeat the big bad. To stand up and glare it down. To maybe take some hits, but to never acquiesce, not aligning ourselves with the enemy and embracing their psychosis.
 
And so, in spite of the emotional devastation of her last experience tottering on that spot, Tess rallied. She rose: a resounding, towering figure. A silhouette amidst the blaze of ruination around her. Damn right we will not bend, she seemed to be saying. We will not lose faith. We'll fight on, in a universe of cruel, dispassionate violence and hate, to forge a path of unity and reassert our indomitable will. We will not be terrified and bullied into submission to some sacrifice of virtue. You cannot lay us on an altar and cut the very heart out of our spirit.
 
And so, after months of being haunted by this moment, I got to tell Haley Joel Osmont to screw off. Got to tell him right to his smirking little face that his endless, cyclical scheme was madness, and that he was but an unhinged monster on a witless rampage. No matter what his original intentions had once been (I imagined that I got to say), he was nothing but a ghoul now, a husk devoid of purpose, bringing darkness and pain wherever his shadow was cast. A mockery to the very life he was trying to 'preserve'.
 
And so, Tess Shepard selected the fourth option, and I readied myself to watch the Reapers feel what happens when the downtrodden bite back...
 
But instead, the whole goddamn universe ended. 
 
Was wiped out. 
 
I saw a galaxy of life get flamed away in an instant – even after the cause of all that devastation had agreed with me that his ridiculous plan no longer worked. I had shown the villain the flaw in this scheme; he had admitted that his solution was no longer acceptable; but he decided to go and do it anyway. What the hell?  The gasoline was already spilled. Why waste it? Like a frenzied child he lit it up because I refused to obey, because I wasn't willing to perpetuate his narrow vision of existence.
 
In honesty, this has got to be the most heartbreaking meta-textual moment of narrative I have ever experienced; final proof that the whole promise of individuated interaction that drew me to the Mass Effect universe in the first place (and that was repeated ad nauseum in Bioware's marketing for half a decade) was a complete misinterpretation on my behalf. This was not my story. This was never my universe. I fell in love with these characters, but I was never fighting beside them. I really was just looking through the window as they talked amongst themselves, imagining what I might say if I was there. I never talked Samara out of killing herself; I never helped Thane reconnect with his son; I never tempted a traumatised biotic to reconnect with the world; I certainly never stared down a Krogan. I pressed buttons. I stared at a screen. Watched polygons dance.
 
For months I've been hearing critics who decry the fans that have voiced their displeasure at the ending say 'Why are you getting so upset? It's just a game'. And not only could I not agree with this sentiment, but on many levels, I literally couldn't even understand what such a sentiment meant. It wasn't just a game. It was a world in which you were invited to live: to participate in and influence. It was a reactive agent, and you were –  Well, you were any other term than the 'Catalyst'. 
 
Or it was.
 
I guess the final message of Mass Effect, the message its creators went to extra pains to communicate, was that yes: it was just a game. There was a structure and there were parameters, and unless you agree to the win-scenario in its absolute moral vacuum, you forfeit your right to success.
 
Because I refused to play according to the rigid, objectionable rules that Bioware laid down in the final moments of the game, I watched a galaxy of beauty and grace annihilated, and got to acutely feel that it was all my fault. Hell, I was even told I failed by the companion tasked with cataloguing my fight for the ages.
 
I tried to play by my rules (the rules I had been led to believe up until that point were at the heart of the experience), and was punished for it. Foolishly, I tried to hold on to the beliefs that I thought made human beings more than automatons.  Critical Mission Failure. You lose. What a f---ing jerk I turned out to be. 
 
So Merry Christmas universe: I tried to respect the splendour of individuality and doomed us all to hell.
 
Instead I got to watch the galaxy spin on until someone else was willing to come along and push the button I couldn't. Either way, the only way life perpetuates is through an act of fear and moral compromise. Life will go on, but the standard of that life is irrelevant. The principles upon which it is now founded are genocide, domination, or the arrogance of compelled mutation. Three games, all leading up to a final thesis of moral futility. 
 
And to add the final insult, it all still gets credited to 'The Shepard', even though the thought of such an eventuality literally killed her.
 
A whimper, not a bang. 
 
Yay nihilism.
 
 
To give them credit, Bioware did ultimately let me reject the three endings that I continued to see as repellent, but the price was that I was no longer permitted to exist in their world anymore. Indeed, they vowed to torch it all down rather they let me spend another second there: 'The universe ends now. You can see your own way out.'
 
As the credits rolled and I saw the creators names pass by all I could feel is that it would have been nice if they had have let me know all this three games ago: that I, and my dorky little ideals, weren't welcome.  Bioware disabused me of my misconception that I was ever part of their vision. I guess I was just fuel for that purging fire that the Catalyst wanted to unleash upon the galaxy – too mired in my primitive hopes and faith to exist in his new galactic order. 
 
But I guess if I hadn't taken the ride I would never have enjoyed such rich characters, and I certainly would never have met all you wonderful folks on this thread.  

And it's true: you can't grieve for something if you didn't love it first.
 
 
Goodbye Mass Effect.
 
 
Tess Shepard
 
N7 officer and first human spectre.
 
Born on Mindoir on April 11, 2154.
 
She lived through the Mindoir slaver raid and proved her valour in the Skylian Blitz.
 
She saved the Citadel and Galactic Council against Reaper attack, and survived a journey through the Omega 4 Relay to stop the Collector incursions.
 
She helped cure the Gennophage, honouring the wishes of one of its creators, and was a pivotal figure in negotiating the burgeoning peace between the Geth and the Quarians.
 
She amassed the largest unified defence force in the history of the universe.
 
Killed in action.
 
Bled to death on the bridge of the failed Crucible project.
 
She fought, but all hope was lost.
 

Wow I actually read that whole thing, very well said. Many people still feel this way. If I ever meet someone with a nickname 'drayfish' ever, they get a free drink in honour of this post.

[Seijin8]

o7

Salute to Tess Shepard.

[delta_vee]

Salute. Drink.

[3DandBeyond]

Grotaiche wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I would pay one thousand dollars for that.

I am not in any way exaggerating. I would cancel a goddam vacation for that. I'd sell my DVD collection. I'd do whatever it takes to raise a thousand dollars if that was the price they put on not being a monster.

What about a fan-made ending ? Not a fanfic or a comic or an e-book but a real ending, integrated into the game itself ?
I did not mean to "go public" with this so soon but seeing how desperate people are, I thought I'd mention it. This is still much "technical mumbo-jumbo" as we are still figuring out how to change most stuff in ME3 files but it gets better and better.

Sorry for the off-topic post.

My guilty fervent wish is that someone might actually have to know how and the desire to make a real ME "inspired" ending.  Considering that the Bioware devs have now institutionalized the procurement of other intellectual property for use within the most crucial series defining part of ME3, then why aren't some of the themes of ME valid for "procurement".  Change the names to protect the innocent.  A graphic true ending or an animated one. 

My expectations of what they'd focus on for the EC were truly set so low, I never expected much, but they went even lower than my expectations and rushed headlong into negative territory-this ending set the games further into a hole.  My hopes were a bit higher, because they promised closure.  I abhorred the choices, and abhor them even more now, because in explaining them further they think they are more acceptable.  The kid is still the messenger and the premise that there must be choice is still predicated on the idea that there was ever a problem that needed this level of intervention.  I've never seen it.  In fact, one human has made great strides in heading off any notions that such a problem need ever exist.  My Shepard's existence proved the contrary to the kid's assertions and her ability proved the folly of the kid's existence. 

Chaos is the natural state of evolution, but evolution is about natural betterment-it is nature's way of saying, "you are ready, take a step forward." 

Synthesis is molestation-not only of the self-contained body of the individual but of the soul and of life and nature themselves.  It says, "you need intervention.  I will make you better now.  It's my decision.  You may not be ready, but it must happen."  The kid says it can't be forced and yet one human must force it upon trillions of unknowing others without their permission.

Control is the dream of an idiot-it is actually saying that Shepard should willingly choose to become a god.  It matters little that Shepard gives some little talk about remaining true to him/herself.  What matters is that it's creating an omnipresent being that oversees all that exists in an even more tangible way than any god of faith.  It further insults the senses by foisting the vision of reapers as peacekeepers and the architects and rebuilders of the galaxy.  The feelings of the recently nearly mortally wounded citizens of the galaxy don't matter; they will co-exist with mass murderers and are meant to accept it.  Not in my galaxy.

Destroy is well, it's what it always was, genocide.  But it's even worse.  Whereas the kid explained more fully the ramifications of the other choices, with this one he avoids stating outright what it will do.  He says what it may do-destroy some technology, damage some relays, but hey, you can rebuild.  EDI, the geth, even what happens to Shepard-these consequences are ambiguous until the choice is made.  Once set, only then does it become clear, EDI is dead.  You are expected to infer the geth are also, because they are not represented in any cutscene or the "awesome" slideshow.  It's like they purposely resisted telling you that choosing this was committing genocide and figured instead since you were too stupid to understand their original ending's meanings, this would go over your head as well.  For the rest, well destroy exists mostly unchanged, except for the notion that no matter your love interest or which friend is about to memorialize your Shepard, the individual will suddenly have an epiphany and the Normandy will rush off to find Shepard.  And that Shepard torso will still be left alone before the player, gasping in a pile of rubble like so much garbage. 

It's my feeling that ultimately this is the message the devs desired to send.  We, as players saw ourselves as Shepard.  We stated that everything (and thus reject) done within the games should have been with the notion of how Shepard would see things and what the player as Shepard would do.  In creating the multiple Shepard must die scenarios that are shown in explicit detail with consequences fully clarified and then doing the exact opposite in the only Shepard could live scenario, they have played their final hand.  The only choice where Shepard could live is the one with the highest tangible stakes and yet it never fully plays out, provides no closure whatsoever.  And that, I feel is by design.  It and some other Shepard lives scenario could have been so well done, so touching and emotionally complete, but they avoided it in order to show their disdain for the player Shepard.  Shepard finally is shown to be thought of as nothing that mattered, undeserving of any final act of great grace nor is any player ever given that great moment of triumph and success.  It's over, you the player Shepard are dead or rubble.  Never a hero, because that would have been doing honor to the ungrateful and unappreciative.  Crawl back into your hole and we will let you out when we decide the time is right.

I agree so much with others that say the first cut of the endings was bad and I hated them.  These are far worse and I despise, no I loathe them.  They are dismissive, patronizing, and they are the ultimate screw you endings. 

[Uncle Jo]

Yes, all the endings were thematically revolting (Synthesis is more disgusting than ever now) and yes the reject option was my first choice, only to see the whole Galaxy destroyed, no matter how high your EMS were.

But frankly, if this option would have had a good outcome, how many of us would have chosen Destroy or Control or Synthesis ? The Starbrat's circular logic is still insane and the new "explanations" didn't change it one bit.

The forced hatred of synthetics is something I'll never accept. It was all about the "Reapers against everyone" not "synthetics vs organics". Or the brat is a liar. I'll never compromise and play his sick game.

So BW told me that we'll lose if I refuse to follow the brat's logic and that my beliefs are not required ? So be it and let it burn...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 28 juin 2012 - 02:46 .

[KitaSaturnyne]

The Uninstall Shall Set You Free.

[the slynx]

drayfish wrote...

 
I cannot express the glee I felt at finding there was a fourth option....
 
But instead, the whole goddamn universe ended. 
 
Was wiped out. ...

Goodbye Mass Effect.
 
 
Tess Shepard
 
N7 officer and first human spectre.
 
Born on Mindoir on April 11, 2154.
 ...
 
She fought, but all hope was lost.
 

I feel your pain. The moment I realised there was a fourth ending, I felt a rush. To the point of double-take, as in a bad novel: having to check that I wasn't dreaming. This was really happening.

And then, moments later, in a very different way. This. This was really happening. Really. They killed the universe. (And apparently, the next cycle still used the Crucible. So: fantastic.) And they did it without even the dignity of a cut-scene, just Shepard growing a spine - and then promptly disavowing it, standing still after his/her refusal, as if that was the crux of the plan: refuse and then lay back and see what happens. No improvisation. No determination. Just a weary sigh, and Shepard went from protagonist to audience member, passively watching the destruction of the world.

It sure came across as BioWare reasserting control over a fictional universe they felt had gotten out of hand. As if they themselves were Reapers confronting the chaos of fan criticism.

Oh well.

[Fapmaster5000]

frypan wrote...

@Fapmaster

Good to see you keeping up spirits with some true graveyard humour. Ever heard of a place called Gallipoli? It was a nasty little campaign in WW1 that ended in defeat, but that we in Australia have turned into a statement of national character. Your trench humour is right at home under the current circumstances.

Learned of it in a movie, expanded on it in college world history classes, but my best relation to that battle is a truly epic song from Sabaton.

@drayfish... Good to see you back, sad to see your reaction was so similar to my own.

To all, I raise a glass to the fallen and the lost. Salute!

Modifié par Fapmaster5000, 28 juin 2012 - 03:47 .

[M0keys]

beautiful stuff dray

been waiting for your post ever since the EC came out and as usual I want to shake your hand.

[M0keys]

by the way. we should create some kind of... e-mail list or something. I don't know how we'd do it exactly, but we all need to stay in touch because we've got views that go way beyond being just mass effect (ex-?)fans

Modifié par M0keys, 28 juin 2012 - 04:58 .

[KitaSaturnyne]

@M0keys

delta_vee has something set up already. I'll leave it to his discretion as to whether it should be shared any further.

[Fapmaster5000]

alleyd wrote...

-lyrical snip!-

Okay, I loll'd.  Nice job, man.  There were a few rhymes that didn't quite click, but they were vastly outdone by the glory that was Verse 6.  

Internet!  I demand a youtube accoustic version!  PRODUCE IT FOR ME!

Modifié par Fapmaster5000, 28 juin 2012 - 05:25 .

[Ieldra]

Tallestra wrote...
I wanted happy ending for my Shepard, but even more I wanted the ending where we could win without compromising our core values, even if it would mean Shepard, or even Normandy were killed (they all were prepared for it). But no, as CGG said, remaining true to yourself means you lose and die anyway, you are punished for doing the right thing.  

I've been skimming the last few pages of this thread and it is as if I've entered a parallel universe, an incomprehensible one at that. Are you seriously telling me that "doing the right thing" is in any way independent from the results you get? That it isn't as if you do X and get the worst possible result, then you most definitely did *not* do the right thing?

Sorry if I'm getting somewhat into rant mode, but I can't stand this fallacy of "follow your heart and everything will be OK" most people appear to expect from their stories. Human morality is not the measure of the universe, and I think *that* message desperately needs to be sent.

I've also read several claims that - and here's where the parallel universe comes in - the new endings are nihilistic. Eh....what? That's....an....alien thought. The original endings, they were nihilistic. You destroyed the universe whatever you did. The new ones just force you to compromise but you do save the galaxy and you get to see it. I can't see anything fundamentally wrong with that.

The only criticism I agree with is the fundamentally flawed premise of the ending, Flawed not because it's unrealistic, but because the rest of the trilogy sent a different message. I think the ending concept was poorly planned, but I can live with it since I still get a satisfying story out of it with a little mental tweaking. That's why I like the new endings. 

Edit:
Well, perhaps I'm that parallel universe because I tend not to think in terms of good and evil, but of motivations, goals and methods and their justification within a larger context. For me, no one ever *is* good or evil. Actions are justifiable by the circumstances or not, the people who act should not be so attributed. The Catalyst is an "entity X", and because I really think *and* feel that human morality only applies to humans or human-analogues like most characters in the stories I don't judge its actions the same as if they were done by a human. I view them with  emotional detachment.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 juin 2012 - 06:17 .