Aller au contenu

Photo

"All Were Thematically Revolting". My Lit Professor's take on the Endings. (UPDATED)


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
5087 réponses à ce sujet

#1051
Jadebaby

Jadebaby
  • Members
  • 13 229 messages

Sajuro wrote...

And if I had a lit professor who said that following the example of post modernism, the ending of Mass Effect 3 was appropriate then no one would care. Also I'm pretty sure I could get my horror films professor to talk about how the Reapers are symbolically raping humans in the process of turning them into husks through the penetration of the dragon teeth and how the Omni blade is an outlet for Shepard's sexual frustrations which is why he uses it to kill Kai Leng to assert his masculinity or for fem shep to punish Leng for his percieved dominance over her by penetration.


haha "thats just messed."

#1052
Sajuro

Sajuro
  • Members
  • 6 871 messages

EnvyTB075 wrote...

davishepard wrote...

Hey, it's clear that you care for his opinion. I don't, and nothing you post wil make me consider his opinion more valid than any other fan opinion. This line "he can criticize the game with more validity than most people" is just crap, to me. 

Besides, in the end, he can judge only by his point of view. He can't know why the game is made as it is, and what will be added to it in the near future.


You realise how dumb that is, right?

If his analysis had gone the other way, if he found it to be post modern, then you would never hear about his arguement because it does not fit into the overall narrative on  BSN that ME3's ending was horrible and vile, even though as a lit professor he would be qualified to analyze it and offer his opinion that the ending was appropriate following under the trope "end of an era" in which to save the world (galaxy) the hero must sacrifice something that has always been in the setting (Magic in FF6 and Mass Relays in ME3)

#1053
SkaldFish

SkaldFish
  • Members
  • 768 messages

Sajuro wrote...

And if I had a lit professor who said that following the example of post modernism, the ending of Mass Effect 3 was appropriate then no one would care. Also I'm pretty sure I could get my horror films professor to talk about how the Reapers are symbolically raping humans in the process of turning them into husks through the penetration of the dragon teeth and how the Omni blade is an outlet for Shepard's sexual frustrations which is why he uses it to kill Kai Leng to assert his masculinity or for fem shep to punish Leng for his percieved dominance over her by penetration.

I look forward to reading those essays.

#1054
Sajuro

Sajuro
  • Members
  • 6 871 messages

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

And if I had a lit professor who said that following the example of post modernism, the ending of Mass Effect 3 was appropriate then no one would care. Also I'm pretty sure I could get my horror films professor to talk about how the Reapers are symbolically raping humans in the process of turning them into husks through the penetration of the dragon teeth and how the Omni blade is an outlet for Shepard's sexual frustrations which is why he uses it to kill Kai Leng to assert his masculinity or for fem shep to punish Leng for his percieved dominance over her by penetration.


haha "thats just messed."

While my friend was playing Skyrim, I did a Freudian analysis of it for everyone in the room "Now you see class, she is punishing the female bandit for her own feminity by penetrating her with the great sword. And cutting off the bandit's head is also symbolic of a castration."

#1055
Keyrlis

Keyrlis
  • Members
  • 70 messages

Sajuro wrote...

And if I had a lit professor who said that following the example of post modernism, the ending of Mass Effect 3 was appropriate then no one would care. Also I'm pretty sure I could get my horror films professor to talk about how the Reapers are symbolically raping humans in the process of turning them into husks through the penetration of the dragon teeth and how the Omni blade is an outlet for Shepard's sexual frustrations which is why he uses it to kill Kai Leng to assert his masculinity or for fem shep to punish Leng for his percieved dominance over her by penetration.


You have a Horror Films Professor? You must live here in California :)
Actually, all that sexual symbolism you brought up would be more appropriate from a pychology professor.
A Horror prof would likely note the "uncanny valley" (So much like us, it's disgusting) principle as to why hybrid organic/reaper-tech husks are such an effective "shock troop" while EDI in her metallic skin is more approachable, even though she is completely synthetic. Probably would also question the likelyhood that in previous cycles, the main sentient beings of the galaxy must have looked like cuttlefish. Sure, they are advanced (for aquatic cephalopods) in this cycle, but they must have been amazing when they could roam the galaxy at will, seeking out new space krill, fighting with giant space jellyfish (hanar ancestors?).:P

#1056
SkaldFish

SkaldFish
  • Members
  • 768 messages

Keyrlis wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

And if I had a lit professor who said that following the example of post modernism, the ending of Mass Effect 3 was appropriate then no one would care. Also I'm pretty sure I could get my horror films professor to talk about how the Reapers are symbolically raping humans in the process of turning them into husks through the penetration of the dragon teeth and how the Omni blade is an outlet for Shepard's sexual frustrations which is why he uses it to kill Kai Leng to assert his masculinity or for fem shep to punish Leng for his percieved dominance over her by penetration.


You have a Horror Films Professor? You must live here in California :)
Actually, all that sexual symbolism you brought up would be more appropriate from a pychology professor.
A Horror prof would likely note the "uncanny valley" (So much like us, it's disgusting) principle as to why hybrid organic/reaper-tech husks are such an effective "shock troop" while EDI in her metallic skin is more approachable, even though she is completely synthetic. Probably would also question the likelyhood that in previous cycles, the main sentient beings of the galaxy must have looked like cuttlefish. Sure, they are advanced (for aquatic cephalopods) in this cycle, but they must have been amazing when they could roam the galaxy at will, seeking out new space krill, fighting with giant space jellyfish (hanar ancestors?).:P

"Mass Effect: Origins - Jelly vs. Cuttle"

(Edit: The potential for compelling dialogue is staggering.)

Modifié par SkaldFish, 29 avril 2012 - 05:16 .


#1057
Jadebaby

Jadebaby
  • Members
  • 13 229 messages

Sajuro wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

And if I had a lit professor who said that following the example of post modernism, the ending of Mass Effect 3 was appropriate then no one would care. Also I'm pretty sure I could get my horror films professor to talk about how the Reapers are symbolically raping humans in the process of turning them into husks through the penetration of the dragon teeth and how the Omni blade is an outlet for Shepard's sexual frustrations which is why he uses it to kill Kai Leng to assert his masculinity or for fem shep to punish Leng for his percieved dominance over her by penetration.


haha "thats just messed."

While my friend was playing Skyrim, I did a Freudian analysis of it for everyone in the room "Now you see class, she is punishing the female bandit for her own feminity by penetrating her with the great sword. And cutting off the bandit's head is also symbolic of a castration."


Reaching, but still hilarious.

#1058
b23h

b23h
  • Members
  • 109 messages
I am sorry to do it, but I feel the need. While I cannot say that I read the entire thread or even a majority, but of what I read a majority represented a missed opportunity to engage another in a thorough and thoughtful fashion. Lives can be lived missing the mark, and threads are often little else.

As below, so above. In like way Shepard misses engaging the Catalyst in sufficient fashion.

That I believe is the crux of the issue and the Gordian knot. There may be a lot that can be resolved in people’s concerns with some extra cinematics showing various squad members and other’s situations and fates, but for me my Shepard’s response to the Catalyst breaks the story as presented. It’s close but no cigar, and a fair amount rides on it. My Shepard’s analysis was fair, but it doesn’t feel sufficient to the task. One need not think that some long winded oratory was necessary by either Shepard or Catalyst, but a more rigorous response with some possible Paragon and Renegade responses and a more confrontational response to the idea of synthesis with therefore a possible more thorough response in turn from the Catalyst might have made the ending more believable to me.

#1059
Sajuro

Sajuro
  • Members
  • 6 871 messages

Keyrlis wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

And if I had a lit professor who said that following the example of post modernism, the ending of Mass Effect 3 was appropriate then no one would care. Also I'm pretty sure I could get my horror films professor to talk about how the Reapers are symbolically raping humans in the process of turning them into husks through the penetration of the dragon teeth and how the Omni blade is an outlet for Shepard's sexual frustrations which is why he uses it to kill Kai Leng to assert his masculinity or for fem shep to punish Leng for his percieved dominance over her by penetration.


You have a Horror Films Professor? You must live here in California :)
Actually, all that sexual symbolism you brought up would be more appropriate from a pychology professor.
A Horror prof would likely note the "uncanny valley" (So much like us, it's disgusting) principle as to why hybrid organic/reaper-tech husks are such an effective "shock troop" while EDI in her metallic skin is more approachable, even though she is completely synthetic. Probably would also question the likelyhood that in previous cycles, the main sentient beings of the galaxy must have looked like cuttlefish. Sure, they are advanced (for aquatic cephalopods) in this cycle, but they must have been amazing when they could roam the galaxy at will, seeking out new space krill, fighting with giant space jellyfish (hanar ancestors?).:P

Nope :P, I attend the University of North Carolina at Greensboro and our media studies major (my program:wizard:) has a horror films class where the professor talks about freudian theory along with other theories in relation to horror films and the Gender in Media class had a whole day applying freudian theory to horror films and another day applying the theory of Voyerism to a other films. Also, husks make sense on another level since humans like to think of ourselves as rational creatures and the husks are base beings that reflect our fear of ourselves and the Reapers seem to silent hill the races when they're making their husks.

#1060
fle6isnow

fle6isnow
  • Members
  • 582 messages

Sajuro wrote...

If his analysis had gone the other way, if he found it to be post modern, then you would never hear about his arguement because it does not fit into the overall narrative on  BSN that ME3's ending was horrible and vile, even though as a lit professor he would be qualified to analyze it and offer his opinion that the ending was appropriate following under the trope "end of an era" in which to save the world (galaxy) the hero must sacrifice something that has always been in the setting (Magic in FF6 and Mass Relays in ME3)


You know, I've been waiting for the "end of era" sacrifice since ME1. That's why I was so glad that the mass relays blew up in the end.

#1061
Sable Phoenix

Sable Phoenix
  • Members
  • 1 564 messages
You wouldn't hear anything about the Freudian analysis of ME3 for two reasons: firstly, because Freudian psychology is actually a very limiting set of guidelines that is not applicable to every single thing, despite what its adherents would love us to believe, and secondly, because Freudian psychology is total bunk that was based on case studies of four (or was it six... whatever number it was, the sample size was ridiculously small) old women. Freudian analysis always had far more to do with Freud himself, and his own ego, than anything else.

Let's not get into psychosexual penetration/castration "symbology", that kind of stuff has no relevance here and is pathetically contrived in any case.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 29 avril 2012 - 06:49 .


#1062
SkaldFish

SkaldFish
  • Members
  • 768 messages
[quote]fle6isnow wrote...

[quote]Sajuro wrote...

If his analysis had gone the other way, if he found it to be post modern, then you would never hear about his arguement because it does not fit into the overall narrative on  BSN that ME3's ending was horrible and vile, even though as a lit professor he would be qualified to analyze it and offer his opinion that the ending was appropriate following under the trope "end of an era" in which to save the world (galaxy) the hero must sacrifice something that has always been in the setting (Magic in FF6 and Mass Relays in ME3)

[/quote]

You know, I've been waiting for the "end of era" sacrifice since ME1. That's why I was so glad that the mass relays blew up in the end.
[/quote]
Well, there were plenty of other tropes to compensate. In fact, in this case, the "trope density" was off the charts:

[...stuff happens and...]
Shepard is, for the first time, introduced to a Sufficiently Advanced Alien, an Energy Being who, to take A Form You Are Comfortable With appears as an Adorably Precocious Child. This being, an ancient Artificial Intelligence, explains that he has seen so many Robot Wars across the millennia that, in an attempt to resolve the situation, he developed a Reset Button solution. In doing so, however, he has become a Well-Intentioned Extremist who sees the struggle between organics and synthetics as an Order vs Chaos problem in which his role is to restore order. His solution, creation of the Reapers, required him to Jump Off the Slippery Slope and accept that The Revolution Will Not Be Civilized; the most advanced civilzations will be periodically "processed" by this Horde of Alien Locusts to short-circuit the Robot War cycle.

After explaining I Did What I Had To Do (which may qualify as a bizarre twist on the Hannibal Lecture), the being claims (in a lightning-fast E = MC Hammer moment) that Shepard's presence "changes things," and presents him/her with a set of Final Solution choices. Each of these choices casually demands that Shepard cross his/her own Moral Event Horizon by presenting catastrophic variations on an End of the World As We Know It solution initiated via a Big Red Button Self-Destruct Mechanism.

In an act of Heroic Sacrifice, without a word of questioning, objection, or realization that "I Forgot I Could Change the Rules," Shepard is forced to select an option and the trilogy ends with a case of Writer On Board.
[/quote]

Modifié par SkaldFish, 29 avril 2012 - 08:21 .


#1063
b23h

b23h
  • Members
  • 109 messages
[quote]SkaldFish wrote...

[Shepard is, for the first time, introduced to a Sufficiently Advanced Alien, an Energy Being who, to take A Form You Are Comfortable With appears as an Adorably Precocious Child. This being, an ancient Artificial Intelligence, explains that he has seen so many Robot Wars across the millennia that, in an attempt to resolve the situation, he developed a Reset Button solution. In doing so, however, he has become a Well-Intentioned Extremist who sees the struggle between organics and synthetics as an Order vs Chaos problem in which his role is to restore order. His solution, creation of the Reapers, required him to Jump Off the Slippery Slope and accept that The Revolution Will Not Be Civilized; the most advanced civilzations will be periodically "processed" by this Horde of Alien Locusts to short-circuit the Robot War cycle.

After explaining I Did What I Had To Do (which may qualify as a bizarre twist on the Hannibal Lecture), the being claims (in a lightning-fast E = MC Hammer moment) that Shepard's presence "changes things," and presents him/her with a set of Final Solution choices. Each of these choices casually demands that Shepard cross his/her own Moral Event Horizon by presenting catastrophic variations on an End of the World As We Know It solution initiated via a Big Red Button Self-Destruct Mechanism.

In an act of Heroic Sacrifice, without a word of questioning, objection, or realization that "I Forgot I Could Change the Rules," Shepard selects an option and ends the trilogy with a Dying Moment of Awesome.
[/quote]

[/quote]

I intuit that at least on one level this is an accurate description of the theme of the contradiction.

Modifié par b23h, 29 avril 2012 - 07:40 .


#1064
CulturalGeekGirl

CulturalGeekGirl
  • Members
  • 3 280 messages
So, after not updating my blog in several forevers, I finally posted... thanks in large part to this thread.

I'm gonna put an altered version of that post in here, even though it is woefully divergent from the topics currently being discussed.

I got to the ending of Mass Effect 3 after the storm had started. There were already a dozen well-written articles about the flaws in the ending. There was already a back and forth about the nature of art vs commerce. There was already a movement and a sense of mourning. What did I have to add? Nothing, I thought. Or almost nothing. So I wrote some forum posts, whined to folks at work, ate pancakes, tore my hair, shredded my garments, wore ashes and sackcloth, you know... the usual.

But then it lasted. When did I finish Mass Effect 3? Before PAX East, certainly, at least a week before. So it's been a month or thereabouts. You'd think I'd be over it by now, that I'd be focusing on game of thrones or distracting myself with Pratchett or making a costume or playing an MMO or... you know... getting on with my gorram life. Yet I'm not.

To paraphrase Harbringer, This Hurts Me. Why? Why does it hurt me? Why do I care? Xenosaga ruined Shion after the first game, so I just never finished that series. The ending of Season Five of Supernatural also had authorial hubris destroying my suspension of disbelief and I just... stopped watching as a result. The end of Lost was disappointing, but it didn't torment me for weeks, and yes... I loved Lost almost as much as I loved Mass Effect. So why was one almost immediately forgotten, while the other occupies me even now, weeks later?

It's about the nature of story itself. This is going to get long, silly, and personal.

Here I sit in my apartment, waiting for the delivery of my sofa, alone with my thoughts. Why do I care so much about Mass Effect? What did I like so very much about it, and why do I feel like that is lost to me now? That question was too big, so I tried to focus in - could I think of one thing Mass Effect had that nothing else had? The first thing that jumped out at me is embarrassing, but when have I ever let that stop me from running my mouth? Pretty much never.

I read a lot. I watch a lot of scripted TV, I read comics, I watch movies, I play narrative-focused games, and I have never, in my life, enjoyed a love story as much as I enjoyed the love story between Garrus Vakarian and commander Shepard.

It's not because Garrus is the most attractive character I've ever encountered; he's not. He's not even my favorite squadmate... that honor goes to Mordin. My investment comes from somewhere else: it comes from the game's ability to discard one of the most central requirements of the romantic narrative: the requirement that something dramatic separate the lovers, that they have something that keeps them apart until the climax of the story. When do we ever get to see the story of two best friends who trust each other implicitly, and never break that trust, falling in love? Pretty much never, because there's no drama there. I'm thinking back on hundreds of love stories I've read or watched or played over the years, and never has the primary love story of a piece been written this way.

Not that I'm implying that Garrus is the most important or primary love interest in Mass Effect; he was just my primary love interest. The fact that he's one of many is what enables this kind of storytelling. In a story with only one romantic interest, I doubt any writer would dare to try this strange, uncertain, nearly conflict-free romantic arc.

The drama in Shepard and Garrus's relationship comes not from the denial of their emotions, not from some stricture keeping them apart, not from (and I hate this most of all) some comical misunderstanding that introduces a senseless conflict that must be overcome in the third act. The narrative interest in their relationship in Mass Effect 2 comes not from what is keeping them apart, but from what is bringing them together. It is about two people who are very important to each other realizing how much they mean to each other. That is a story that has been told before, I will admit, but there is a twist here. A twist that departs from the path of the standard romantic narrative, and creates something entirely new.

In many stories, the realization of how important a relationship is causes one or more of the parties to withdraw. "I realized what losing you would mean, and it scared me." Or maybe the realization only comes after a lengthy slog through the ups and downs of doubts until someone finally realizes "you complete me" and then poof, reprise the theme song and roll the credits. It's either a source of conflict throughout the story or a single beat at the end.

In Mass Effect 2, it is the story. The narrative focuses on and deepens that story in a way I have never seen before. Instead of a sudden realization that transitions us to happy-ending land, we get something that feels like real, productive, sometimes uncertain, but always positive growth. In the case of Garrus and Shepard, the admission of the relationship's importance is not a source of artificial conflict, it is the relationship's apotheosis. It culminates in a line that would, in any other work, come right before some dramatic fall: "I want something to go right, just once."

Then, against all odds and reasons and narrative convention... it does go right. They fall in love and stay in love and make it out alive. They save the day and flip off the man and drive off in their souped-up rocket car staring incredulously at each other. Did that just happen? Did we actually win? Did we actually not lose everything?

I mean yeah, the world's still ending... but the world is always ending. It never stops ending. I think we've all realized that. Every day is a tiny apocalypse and somebody's not going to make it out alive. But this little armageddon, this little trap of doom and defeat, it didn't get us.

And then we have Mass Effect 3. Again, no manufactured drama. "Hey, you want to... keep doing this?" "Yes." "Oh good. That's what I was hoping for." "Me too." So how are we going to spend this time together? Racing cars and shooting guns and making out on rooftops. We're going to live the crap out of this life, and who cares. I can't remember a single scene in any narrative media that made me feel as comfortable and joyous and carefree as that Garrus scene on the Citadel rafters did. That whole narrative arc was an exploration of friendship and loyalty and trust and joy.

That's my revelation: games can do that. They can do whatever they like, of course they can. Of course they can!

It leaves me standing at the top of a pile of crap romance that people have been trying to sell to modern, intelligent women for years yelling "Yo stupids, we don't have to play your game anymore! It's possible to tell the story of two intelligent, reasonable, awesome people who love and respect each other without any of your adolescent angsty bull****."

It was there, standing on my pile of crap, shouting at the romantic narrative establishment, that I realized what I wanted out of Mass Effect, what I wanted and almost got. I'm not looking for Mass Effect to mirror the Odyssey. I'm not lookin' to be the hero with a thousand faces. I'm sure as hell not looking for another self-sacrificial messiah figure.

I'm looking for a story that leaves me laughing with a feeling of exhilaration and joy, because video games can do things no other form of storytelling yet invented can do. I'm looking for something that will make me pump my fist in defiance at the tired old narrative devices of yesteryear. I'm looking for something that will prove me right, that will illustrate that all the angst and grimdark and rote misunderstandings are not what make great art; that great art can come from a place of delight, and victory, and friendship and unity.

If I want to experience a piece of art that reminds me what it feels like to lose your sense of hope, compromise your ideals, and sink into a world of ruin and despair, I've got some Dostoyevsky on the shelf. If I want to read about how mankind is a doomed, foolish race in an unfeeling universe, I'd make myself re-read Mostly Harmless; at least I'd get a few laughs out of it. If I want to see a hero sacrifice everything he is to achieve a goal he is not even certain he cares about, Elric of Melinbone is standing just off screen, looking at me with those creepy eyes, silently judging me for only reading like seven of his books. I know that feel, bro. I can get it anywhere. I can get it wholesale from a thousand dead geniuses.

What I can't get in unlimited quantities while wandering through the classics section is self-actualization and joy. If I want to experience a piece of art that evokes the feeling of falling in love with your best friend while punching your worst enemy in the face in the ultimate triumph of free will over fate, that piece of art doesn't exist yet.

It almost did. Mass Effect was so close to creating a piece of art that culminated in the ultimate expression of everything that is good about existence... and then it didn't.

That's what I'm mourning the loss of.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 29 avril 2012 - 07:40 .


#1065
drayfish

drayfish
  • Members
  • 1 211 messages
@ CulturalGeekGirl:

Holy, merciful damn.  ...I knew you were a writer.  Beautiful.

Modifié par drayfish, 29 avril 2012 - 07:57 .


#1066
AeonOfTime

AeonOfTime
  • Members
  • 15 messages
 "The obscurities in the ending of Mass Effect 3 have not been similarly earned by its prior narrative. This narrative has not until this point been about dominance, extermination, and the imposition of uniformity – indeed, Shepard has spent over a hundred hours of narrative fighting against precisely these three themes. And if one of these three (and only these three) options must be selected in order to sustain life in the universe, then that life has been so devalued by that act as to make the sacrifice meaningless."
I read your whole post, thank you for such a detailed writeup. Having voices such as yours join the debate raises my hopes a little bit more each time that Bioware will do the right thing and add the ending most of us would like to see. They don't even have to change the current endings if they are so hell bent on safekeeping their artistic creation - just add one or two more to restore their reputation as great storytellers.
My biggest fear is that they will not change the endings, because they know they can get away with it financially. Granted, Mass Effect 3 will go down in history as the game with the crappiest ending of all time (or at least have an entry in the top 5) - but it has already been a massive success, and most people will still buy Bioware games.  I really hope that I am mistaken, but I think that there would not be any long-term effects from this for Bioware. Even if some people vow to never buy a Bioware game anymore and really do so, their numbers are just too few to have a real impact. I wonder if even the reputation impact could have a durable effect.

#1067
AeonOfTime

AeonOfTime
  • Members
  • 15 messages
@ CulturalGeekGirl:

Thanks, I actually relived all that made Mass Effect worthwhile for me personally reading your comments. The more dismayed views of the endings I read, the more I ask myself what they were thinking. It seems as if they were thinking for the whole series, then threw all conscious thought out the window for the last 8 minutes.

#1068
Vilegrim

Vilegrim
  • Members
  • 2 403 messages
@CulturalGeekGirl Wow.

#1069
Sargaz

Sargaz
  • Members
  • 181 messages
hey op u tryhard english guy try writting somethning that stupid like me can understand hahaahahaha tryhard english sounds so dumb too hahaha mar me

#1070
Menagra

Menagra
  • Members
  • 476 messages
Professors are great when they share interests with students rather then spend all their efforts trying to patronize you and convert your tastes. My favorite teacher was one of the last people to get a full ride at IU for painting(in US use to be like #5 for painting, now it's like #9). He's a super realist painter most well known for his painting series about the incredible hulk. Mwahaha! My previous professor called every painting made by students who spent more than 10 minutes rendering "trite" for they were too "worked" and we were just being socialists and ungodly democratic for caring that our figures should look rendered and not like "expressive" chicken scratches. Now I can't help but laugh whenever I see realism because I can't help but think of socialism(and it's just ridiculous that these things are linked).

But seriously, our government paid artists like Jackson Pollack big money to pretend to be so inspired with his drippings as a fight against the "socialist" realism paintings. Pollack was playing a role as the ultimate "american" painter (because america had to fight those communists) and would claim his work was inspired by native american art, and laugh about it because it had nothing to do with native american art and to claim that scribbles and drips are inspired by "primitive" native american art is just plain offensive. Which is why I hate modern art.

And THAT is why realism is awesome.

I swear this comment relates because ME is in the realism genre.

Modifié par infraredman, 29 avril 2012 - 11:48 .


#1071
-Spartan

-Spartan
  • Members
  • 190 messages

drayfish wrote...

@ CulturalGeekGirl:

Holy, merciful damn.  ...I knew you were a writer.  Beautiful.

No doubt. Pure awesome sauce! :D

On a related note a new article about the future of ME can be read at the following link on the WhatCulture site for those interested.

Mass Effect 3 & The Far Flung Future Of The Series

#1072
SpartanCommander

SpartanCommander
  • Members
  • 130 messages
Bioware has to read this keep this up front!

#1073
Sable Phoenix

Sable Phoenix
  • Members
  • 1 564 messages
No way I can quote it all, but CulturalGeekGirl, your summary of your feelings on the series was beautiful. And once again, it highlights the true strength of Mass Effect and what made its fans so passionate; the characters, and the feeling of completeness that their relationships created. I agree that Garrus' relationship, especially his romance, is special (I would posit that Tali's romance for maleShep is the same kind of relationship, which explains why her fans are so passionate about her romance too), and he is also my favorite character in the series outside of Shepard herself. But each of the companions you meet in your adventure earns their own place in your affections.  There could only ever be one Mordin, or one Wrex, or one Liara.  Their connection to the main character (and by extension, you as the player) is not an interchangeable thing; it goes beyond the gameplay and into the realm of something meaningful.

Beyond that, though... I think you eloquently summarized the paucity of value that characterizes modern art and entertainment. There is this curious idea that in order for entertainment to be "cultured" or "relevant" that it has to be somehow painful or depressing. No, no it doesn't. That's called "real life". Entertainment is about the opposite of that.

Self-actualization and joy. A combination that, thanks to the first of those two things, only games could deliver. All other forms of art present a story as something fundamentally disconnected from the consumer, something we can only watch but never influence; no other entertainment medium besides games can make that connection personal.  What a lovely thing it would be if we had a game in Mass Effect 3 that had delivered that particular combination.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 29 avril 2012 - 05:23 .


#1074
Scyldemort

Scyldemort
  • Members
  • 92 messages

drayfish wrote...

Also (and perhaps this is simply something that I missed in my reading of the events in the game), but why does Shepard standing on the floor of the completed Citadel/Conduit prove that the Catalyst's original plan is no longer viable? If this is proof that biological life has the capacity to grow beyond the constraints that the Catalyst has defined for it, then why should synthetic life (a direct evolution of that same organic life) not likewise have the opportunity to develop beyond what is now proven to be a false assumption. Imposing three choices that do not satisfactorily answer this new paradigm, but rather oppress or assimilate it, seem to miss the point of such growth.


The idea that ALL of the three offered choices are actually an attempt to oppress or assimilate the new paradigm that Shepard has helped to bring about is actually where I thought the writers were going with the entire final scenario right up until the ghost-boy conversation abruptly ended without giving me any chance to challenge the thing's reasoning, and just left me with the choice of which particular method I preferred for utterly destroying everything I had stood for up until that point.

#1075
Sable Phoenix

Sable Phoenix
  • Members
  • 1 564 messages
[quote]SkaldFish wrote...

[quote]fle6isnow wrote...

[quote]Sajuro wrote...

If his analysis had gone the other way, if he found it to be post modern, then you would never hear about his arguement because it does not fit into the overall narrative on  BSN that ME3's ending was horrible and vile, even though as a lit professor he would be qualified to analyze it and offer his opinion that the ending was appropriate following under the trope "end of an era" in which to save the world (galaxy) the hero must sacrifice something that has always been in the setting (Magic in FF6 and Mass Relays in ME3)

[/quote]

You know, I've been waiting for the "end of era" sacrifice since ME1. That's why I was so glad that the mass relays blew up in the end.
[/quote]
Well, there were plenty of other tropes to compensate. In fact, in this case, the "trope density" was off the charts:

[...stuff happens and...]
Shepard is, for the first time, introduced to a Sufficiently Advanced Alien, an Energy Being who, to take A Form You Are Comfortable With appears as an Adorably Precocious Child. This being, an ancient Artificial Intelligence, explains that he has seen so many Robot Wars across the millennia that, in an attempt to resolve the situation, he developed a Reset Button solution. In doing so, however, he has become a Well-Intentioned Extremist who sees the struggle between organics and synthetics as an Order vs Chaos problem in which his role is to restore order. His solution, creation of the Reapers, required him to Jump Off the Slippery Slope and accept that The Revolution Will Not Be Civilized; the most advanced civilzations will be periodically "processed" by this Horde of Alien Locusts to short-circuit the Robot War cycle.

After explaining I Did What I Had To Do (which may qualify as a bizarre twist on the Hannibal Lecture), the being claims (in a lightning-fast E = MC Hammer moment) that Shepard's presence "changes things," and presents him/her with a set of Final Solution choices. Each of these choices casually demands that Shepard cross his/her own Moral Event Horizon by presenting catastrophic variations on an End of the World As We Know It solution initiated via a Big Red Button Self-Destruct Mechanism.

In an act of Heroic Sacrifice, without a word of questioning, objection, or realization that "I Forgot I Could Change the Rules," Shepard selects an option and ends the trilogy with a Dying Moment of Awesome.
[/quote]

[/quote]

I've never ever seen such a forest of TVTropes links.

I knew there was a reason I liked you, Skald.

I disagree, though, on the Dying Moment of Awesome.  Shepard had other moments in the series that were Crowning Moments of Awesome.  The ending was too contrived to be a Moment of anything.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 29 avril 2012 - 05:52 .