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"All Were Thematically Revolting". My Lit Professor's take on the Endings. (UPDATED)


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#1101
RollaWarden

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SkaldFish wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Yeah. No offense to all our esteemed literary scholars, but in the psych field we used to joke that literary criticism is where disgraced psychological theory goes to die.

I think this is tempting in any field of criticism, because it enables the application of a template or framework within which the critic can draw lines of association. Used honestly, appropriately, and knowledgeably, such templates are valuable analytical tools. Unfortunately, they're sometimes used inappropriately, and all too often to lend false credibility to otherwise flimsy positions. I suppose it's a more sophisticated form of name-dropping.


Agreed 100% with you both.  And ouch, CulturalGeekGirl.  Goodness--that one hits close to the bone!  :?  The joke among the psych folks, CulturalGeekGirl, has always caused me to steer clear of psychological literary scholarship.  I won't bore you or derail this marvelous thread with what I do write about, but you both have articulated my uneasy feeling about psych literary criticism.  When my students ask (as they do on occasion) why I don't invoke psychological theories regarding characters, and instead we talk about motif, allegory, applicability (a Tolkien term), plot, setting, theme, and characters in broad strokes, my reply is,

"Because I don't have a degree in psychology.  I understand the field a little, but not enough to graft theory onto the stories we're discussing.  Too much respect for the field of psychology to do it an injustice.  I like to stick to discussions of the writer's craft.  I might know a little something about that."

Back on topic.  As so many have stated so well in thie thread, the writers' craft got derailed.  Why?  Well, that's what we're speculating about.  How did it get derailed?  Why, that's what makes this thread so fascinating.

Modifié par RollaWarden, 30 avril 2012 - 03:06 .


#1102
Keyrlis

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Good morning, everybody! Way past time for me to go to bed.

I caught onto something while reading the posts about "what if", such as if Chixulub was not impacted and caused the K-Pg boundary, and it reminded me of something I found over on the TVTropes website. (Thanks for reminding me of that, I didn't know they had already amassed such a large database on all things Mass Effect; check out the Fridge Brilliance section HERE for some AMAZING correlations you might not have considered.)
Klendagon's notable ancient glancing brush with a large accelerated weapon projectile left a huge gash in its side, as observed by the planetary description, right?

"I thought Klendagon looked eerily familiar somehow, that's when I saw this great picture of Mars- the Great Rift is actually based on Valles Marineris! -Raverine"

Don't know how I totally missed that until now, with a 6 ft map of Mars on my wall. Shame on my detective skills, I know.

SO imagine if it is all real, that Mars has a ancient war wound, and we are all just waiting in warm, blissful, and deadly ignorance. When I was little, I used to think the asteroid belt was a planet that had been blown up. Then I grew up, learned some astrology :wizard:and then, more importantly, astronomy^_^, and that little fantasy disappeared. Until I read the trope relating Klendagon to the "Mars Scar".
Then, all of my childhood nightmares of :alien:aliens:alien: (many):alien: flooded back and gave me chills.

I imagine a world with advanced tech floating just outside the orbit of Mars, able to access the Charon relay, set up world defenses, and discharge their drives anytime one of the gas giants was on that side of the system. Then along comes the Reapers, ready to "Cuisinart the Culture in Charge", only to find that the Sol system isn't going to go down easy, or that the species isn't compatible, or maybe they just taste bad. What now? Annihilation, via orbital bombardment? Or perhaps the organics were capable of moving an entire planet with mass effect fields (or the alien equivalent of Archimedes' lever, even) and said, "Damn the warp torpedos, maximize orbital speed. We're gonna ram that red mutha!"
Either way, that asteroid belt seems much more sinister to me in retrospect, especially with the Protheans coming to watch us evolve. What attracted them to such a backwater system about, say, 75,000 yrs ago, anyway? Perhaps the remains of the lost planet's Eezo left in the belt? Did they salvage the remains of a literally war-torn planet and happen to notice that apes were using specialized stone tools, or did Lake Toba signal them like a volcanic flashlight in the night? Even more amazing is that human brains made an exponential leap in processing power right about that time. Read the connection made between this and the future of AI advancement HERE
Super researcher Ann Gibbons "first suggested that a bottleneck in human evolution about 50,000 years ago, and that human population suffered a severe population decrease—only 3,000 to 10,000 individuals survived—followed eventually by rapid population increase, innovation, progress and migration. Several geneticists, including Lynn Jorde and Henry Harpending have proposed that the human race was reduced to approximately five to ten thousand people. Genetic evidence suggests that all humans alive today, despite apparent variety, are descended from a very small population, perhaps between 1,000 to 10,000 breeding pairs about 70,000 years ago." (mostly clipped from wikipedia in a wild attempt to hurry and finish)

And so what if that Chixulub asteroid wasn't random, but sent through the relay to destroy the intelligent dinosaurs who were about to begin interstellar travels? <_<

Ok, I am going to go to sleep, as reading over this, it is much more disjointed and funnier than I meant it to be, and yet still has that disquieting feeling of making too much (coincidental) sense.
However, my point? -_-

A sleep-starved goofball with too much trivia in his head can make a more cohesive fictional theory about the Reapers than the artistic story we are being forced to swallow.

(Please note that I am only mildly serious, and my accumulation of 3-years of Emergency Essentials rations were acquired with NO BEARING whatsoever on my belief or disbelief of giant red cuttlefish with laser beaming eyes.:crying:)

#1103
RollaWarden

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Keyrlis wrote...

However, my point? -_-

A sleep-starved goofball with too much trivia in his head can make a more cohesive fictional theory about the Reapers than the artistic story we are being forced to swallow.

(Please note that I am only mildly serious, and my accumulation of 3-years of Emergency Essentials rations were acquired with NO BEARING whatsoever on my belief or disbelief of giant red cuttlefish with laser beaming eyes.:crying:)


+10!!!

Add Keyrlis to the list--sleepy post and all--of several posters on this thread who ought to write for Bioware.  If you all get together and form your own game company, I'm officially a LOYAL customer.  Fun read, Keyrlis--

#1104
edisnooM

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Keyrlis wrote...

Good morning, everybody! Way past time for me to go to bed.

I caught onto something while reading the posts about "what if", such as if Chixulub was not impacted and caused the K-Pg boundary, and it reminded me of something I found over on the TVTropes website. (Thanks for reminding me of that, I didn't know they had already amassed such a large database on all things Mass Effect; check out the Fridge Brilliance section HERE for some AMAZING correlations you might not have considered.)
Klendagon's notable ancient glancing brush with a large accelerated weapon projectile left a huge gash in its side, as observed by the planetary description, right?

"I thought Klendagon looked eerily familiar somehow, that's when I saw this great picture of Mars- the Great Rift is actually based on Valles Marineris! -Raverine"

Don't know how I totally missed that until now, with a 6 ft map of Mars on my wall. Shame on my detective skills, I know.

SO imagine if it is all real, that Mars has a ancient war wound, and we are all just waiting in warm, blissful, and deadly ignorance. When I was little, I used to think the asteroid belt was a planet that had been blown up. Then I grew up, learned some astrology :wizard:and then, more importantly, astronomy^_^, and that little fantasy disappeared. Until I read the trope relating Klendagon to the "Mars Scar".
Then, all of my childhood nightmares of :alien:aliens:alien: (many):alien: flooded back and gave me chills.

I imagine a world with advanced tech floating just outside the orbit of Mars, able to access the Charon relay, set up world defenses, and discharge their drives anytime one of the gas giants was on that side of the system. Then along comes the Reapers, ready to "Cuisinart the Culture in Charge", only to find that the Sol system isn't going to go down easy, or that the species isn't compatible, or maybe they just taste bad. What now? Annihilation, via orbital bombardment? Or perhaps the organics were capable of moving an entire planet with mass effect fields (or the alien equivalent of Archimedes' lever, even) and said, "Damn the warp torpedos, maximize orbital speed. We're gonna ram that red mutha!"
Either way, that asteroid belt seems much more sinister to me in retrospect, especially with the Protheans coming to watch us evolve. What attracted them to such a backwater system about, say, 75,000 yrs ago, anyway? Perhaps the remains of the lost planet's Eezo left in the belt? Did they salvage the remains of a literally war-torn planet and happen to notice that apes were using specialized stone tools, or did Lake Toba signal them like a volcanic flashlight in the night? Even more amazing is that human brains made an exponential leap in processing power right about that time. Read the connection made between this and the future of AI advancement HERE
Super researcher Ann Gibbons "first suggested that a bottleneck in human evolution about 50,000 years ago, and that human population suffered a severe population decrease—only 3,000 to 10,000 individuals survived—followed eventually by rapid population increase, innovation, progress and migration. Several geneticists, including Lynn Jorde and Henry Harpending have proposed that the human race was reduced to approximately five to ten thousand people. Genetic evidence suggests that all humans alive today, despite apparent variety, are descended from a very small population, perhaps between 1,000 to 10,000 breeding pairs about 70,000 years ago." (mostly clipped from wikipedia in a wild attempt to hurry and finish)

And so what if that Chixulub asteroid wasn't random, but sent through the relay to destroy the intelligent dinosaurs who were about to begin interstellar travels? <_<

Ok, I am going to go to sleep, as reading over this, it is much more disjointed and funnier than I meant it to be, and yet still has that disquieting feeling of making too much (coincidental) sense.
However, my point? -_-

A sleep-starved goofball with too much trivia in his head can make a more cohesive fictional theory about the Reapers than the artistic story we are being forced to swallow.

(Please note that I am only mildly serious, and my accumulation of 3-years of Emergency Essentials rations were acquired with NO BEARING whatsoever on my belief or disbelief of giant red cuttlefish with laser beaming eyes.:crying:)


At the risk of pushing you further down the rabbit hole, you should check out this thread: social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/11761013/1:)

#1105
Hawk227

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Keyrlis wrote...

Good morning, everybody! Way past time for me to go to bed.

I caught onto something while reading the posts about "what if", such as if Chixulub was not impacted and caused the K-Pg boundary, and it reminded me of something I found over on the TVTropes website. (Thanks for reminding me of that, I didn't know they had already amassed such a large database on all things Mass Effect; check out the Fridge Brilliance section HERE for some AMAZING correlations you might not have considered.)
Klendagon's notable ancient glancing brush with a large accelerated weapon projectile left a huge gash in its side, as observed by the planetary description, right?


Thank you for this link! It's top of my list of time wasting reads. Reapers as answers to Fermi Paradox? Duh!

Brilliant!

#1106
drayfish

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I am finding all of this discussion of the Reaper's motivation quite compelling. Indeed, this whole thread is turning into quite a comprehensive resource – I can't tell you all how much I'm enjoying it. Working within the current ending's parameters I'm impressed with how CulturalGeekGirl, Hawk227 and edisnooM have posed means of massaging the Reaper's goals ever so slightly to make their motivations less abstract, either more discerning or selfish. And Keyrlis – you slightly blew my mind.
 
I must say though, I completely agree with Sable Phoenix about the way in which that information should have been piecemeal assembled:

Sable Phoenix wrote...
The only way that the purpose of the Reapers could have been successfully revealed would have been in small bits and pieces that were sleuthed out by the characters themselves, never through an infodump delivered by Mr. Exposition the way the Catalyst did. That way, we would experience a slowly dawning horror of the knowledge of what the Reapers are actually trying to accomplish, and the realization, "my god, we have to make the same decision." The key is not to try to "humanize" the Reapers, not to make them sympathetic at all, but rather to contrast their horror against a fate that is even more horrific.

 
Suddenly having the enemy tell you their whole plan (after trolling you with it for two and a half games) did feel a little too 'You'll never escape now Mr. Bond, so why don't I tell you my whole scheme...' 

And nice work wrangling all that material into comprehensive files, Skaldfish, I look forward to seeing what you make of Mass Effect 3.


EDIT: I foolishly fumbled Skaldfish's name in my original post.  Huge apologies for the confusion.

Modifié par drayfish, 01 mai 2012 - 12:42 .


#1107
Sable Phoenix

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drayfish wrote...

And nice work wrangling all that material into comprehensive files, Sable Phoenix, I look forward to seeing what you make of Mass Effect 3.


I'm... not entirely sure what you're referring to here.

:blink:

Unless you're getting me mixed up with SkaldFish who is writing the "Reapers, We Hardly Knew Ye" blogs.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 01 mai 2012 - 12:19 .


#1108
edisnooM

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drayfish wrote...

Suddenly having the enemy tell you their whole plan (after trolling you with it for two and a half games) did feel a little too 'You'll never escape now Mr. Bond, so why don't I tell you my whole scheme...' 


On the topic of conversations with villains I was thinking of some memorable moments I have experienced where you could actually convince the final boss that they couldn't win.

The first one was in Fallout 1. When you finally meet The Master, you can (if you discovered the information, and perhaps pass a skill check) show him how his plan of ascending humanity is doomed to failure and extinction. As a result of this realization he kills himself and, I if I remember correctly, activates the self-destruct.

The second was in Fallout: New Vegas where at the final boss if your speech skill is 100 can convince him that he can't win, and he will retreat as a result.

In both these cases the player could challenge what the final boss held to be true, and persuade them they were wrong. This would have been nice to be able to do in ME3.

#1109
drayfish

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Sable Phoenix wrote...

drayfish wrote...

And nice work wrangling all that material into comprehensive files, Sable Phoenix, I look forward to seeing what you make of Mass Effect 3.


I'm... not entirely sure what you're referring to here.

:blink:

Unless you're getting me mixed up with SkaldFish who is writing the "Reapers, We Hardly Knew Ye" blogs.


I'm so sorry Skaldfish!  Complete brain-splosion.  My shame-faced apologies. 

...Not that your work isn't fine also Sable Phoenix (I quote what I likes, and I likes what I quote) but you are right, my congratulations for the Reaper data-thread was intended to go to Skaldfish for some exceptional work.

#1110
Keyrlis

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edisnooM wrote...

At the risk of pushing you further down the rabbit hole, you should check out this thread: social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/11761013/1:)


Too late. THIS mad hatter is now thoroughly convinced that the Mayan symbol "chok" (to scatter) is NOT a hand scattering seeds, but a stylized Reaper scattering the worlds. Look at the section below the first set of numerals at www.ancient-symbols.com/mayan_symbols.html
Also, how funny is it that even the Mayans saw "Yax" (blue or green) as the same, and represented it with what looks like a robot head?:pinched: Because red destroys all synthetics?:huh: Why is the number Zero a "spaceship"?<_< Was that the way they were able to evacuate and disappear from history?:mellow: Were they seeking out the "Kun" (seat, center), which could be a cross-section of the Citadel?:crying:

Laugh if you want to, but I am on full alert for harvesting. I remember my grandmother telling me about the "Rapture", when all who believed would be ascended and made perfect. I just didn't realise Jesus' beard was actually tentacles.

(Please, no religious wrath: my god allows me to joke about my beliefs and disbeliefs without doubting them.)

Maybe I should just drink a coffee before I start continuing to post my insanities.

Back on tangential topics,
Has anyone heard anything the Regenesis project one poster is making (can't remember who, sadly. Please claim your genius) here? Now THIS is someone who should be working at BioWare.
*Considers the prospect of a game company startup*
We certainly have enough writing talent in this thread, anyone know how to code or manipulate 3D models? Then all we will need is a bunch of time, money, and server farms to render...
*Considers just erasing this, but withstands the urge*
I volunteer to help, if anyone can get the ball rolling (use a mass effect field to make it easier). I'm great with sound FX, if not music. :whistle:

#1111
CulturalGeekGirl

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I always just naturally assumed that the Reapers would be considered the answer to Fermi's paradox. Maybe that's a sign that I'm in too deep.

As for my suggestions regarding the Reaper's motivations, I don't mean to imply that I have the answer, and I certainly don't want to suggest that I have a perfect answer. As a frequent workshopper and sometimes editor, I often am looking for the smallest change that I can make to restore coherence. That doesn't meant that a complete rewrite wouldn't often be better.

The reason I'm fond of the "we are here to keep one race from using up the galaxy and stifling all other life" theory is that I can actually make a serious case that it is foreshadowed. If there's one story that keeps getting told throughout the trilogy, it's "Remember that one time one race almost took over the galaxy?" I'd say "what if this one race dominated the galaxy" is at the core of pretty much every major decision you make throughout the series.

In ME1, if you let the council die, you're one step closer to a human run galaxy (presumably). The Rachnii problem is posed around "what if they try to rule the galaxy again?" In ME2, the Genophage cure is all about whether or not the Genophage was an acceptable way to stop the Krogan from dominating the galaxy. Then, the Collector base was going to give humanity access to tech far superior than any other race in the galaxy, bringing us closer to dominating it. Picking up on a theme here? Repeat in ME3 with the Krogan (again), the Rachnii (again) and the Geth (sort of).

Even if the Reapers' connection to that theme isn't hinted earlier in the series, if the reveal is something that is that strongly reinforced thematically throughout the series, I really think it counts as being foreshadowed.

And if you're a planet-reader, like myself, you'll also pick up on a pattern of "oh, this planet used to have resources, now it's a tunneled-out husk." Even if they come and go in waves, if enough galaxy-spanning post-spaceflight species exist for long enough, eventually even the most basic resources for developing technology will be stripped from most worlds. There's enough reinforcing the "every once in a while somebody will come by and conquer the crap out of everything" and "a lot of races utterly RUIN planets" that I'd count it as being foreshadowed if it did come up. Which it didn't.

In addition, the Renegade vs. Paragon choices often come down to "humanity should dominate the galaxy because we're the only ones who can be trusted" vs. "we've got to trust these aliens; accepting that doing so means we may never be the most powerful race." We could have had final moments that forced us to look more closely at our own assessments of the universe and then either discard or embrace them.

And you know what? That was a conflict I legitimately experienced as Shepard. I got angry at the council, and a lot of the time I was tempted to just say "screw you guys, I'm going to look after my own first." It was only my friendship with Garrus, Wrex, Tali, and Mordin that kept me coming back to the galactic community.

Now bear in mind, I'm looking at this with my copy editor "what's the closest I can get to what's on the page" mind. So I'm attempting to come up with the three endings that are as similar as possible to the ones we got while still making sense within the rhetorical framework we've been using all along.

This is as close as I can get: 

*Destroy the reapers, and all their technology, so that no one can benefit from it. This may or may not result in one race eventually running everything.

*Preserve Reaper technology exclusively for human use, rendering us the race most likely to control the galaxy

*Distribute these hyperadvanced technological leaps to everyone, including seeding them in uninhabited systems, giving any race that evolves a decent shot at competing on the galactic stage

Now I will admit that these still don't work completely. This is because ME3 irrevocably poisoned the idea of using or working with any Reaper technology. That's why so few people choose control... including people who were completely on board with keeping the Collector Base. In ME1 and ME2, we got the idea that hey, using some of the Reaper-related tech was OK. There was the thanix cannon (everyobody loves those) and Edi, and the fact that Collector tech apparently lead to immense leaps forward for the races lucky enough to receive it. But in ME3, nope... Batarians? Destroyed by looking too hard at the leviathan of Dis. Cerberus? Screwed over by trying to figure out the Collector base - not just indoctrinated, but full-on corrupted to the point of betraying all their own stated goals. Geth? Reaper code is not what they bargained for. Etc etc etc.

If you want any choice other than "destroy the reapers" to have any weight at all, you can't dismantle the idea of their tech being beneficial so thoroughly throughout the entire game. It's just... I can't fix that. I don't believe anyone can fix that without making some pretty huge freaking changes.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 01 mai 2012 - 04:57 .


#1112
drayfish

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A while back (in fact days back actually; man, I love this thread) CulturalGeekGirl asked what everyone's first experience was when finishing the game, and on some level I think I've tried to avoid thinking through the emotion of that experience too much. I employed the mechanics of narrative and the manipulation of form (all of which I still heartily believe in), but that doesn't quite capture my own personal thought process, and the stunned distaste it engendered. 
 
So I think I'm going to try to do that here if you'll permit me, in a lengthy, prosaic, largely incomprehensible purge of my feelings at the end of the game. Obviously it should go without saying that this is purely subjective: my own, singular, private response as the game concluded, staring wide-eyed into the glare in a darkened lounge room, sleep-deprived, weary, probably with a sliver of dried drool still glistening on my chin...
 
Going back to that moment, I realised that my first thought, when I reached that horrible, ominous choice, was so ridiculous, so tangential, that I haven't come to unpack it properly until now. Because the weird thing is, as I stood on that precipice (as I've mentioned previously, striving to put several bullets through the Cthulhu Jr.'s face), I was stunned, frozen in place. Three paths lay before me, all stretching out into an unknowable, inconceivable, morally-repugnant future, and all that I could think was: I once head-butt a Krogan.
 
It was on Tuchanka in Mass Effect 2. My boy Grunt, standing beside me, breathing through the back of his throat the way Krogans do, was asking Wrex if he could fulfil the Rite of Passage to join Clan Urdnot. Suddenly, some other Krogan starts scoffing, refusing to show him respect. Here I was, an intruder on this planet, in the midst of factional fighting for which I had little context and no jurisdiction – but my friend was being slagged off by some punk who needed to be put in his time-out chair, and a Renegade trigger appeared. Of course I pulled it. Shepard reared back and cracked her head against the loudmouth's hump, staggering the beast, knocking him back. I remember laughing. It was so audacious, so utterly extreme. An armour-plated dinosaur, already flushed with a cocktail of rage issues and persecution complexes that manifest in crazed, bloodthirsty violence – and my Shepard clonked his head like a Stooge.
 
Shepard shook it off, glared him down, and carried on like that was completely normal. Because that's what Shepard does: the insane, the extraordinary, the unbelievable; because that's what humans – and Shepard most of all – do repeatedly throughout this game.
 
For the span of three narratives Shepard has been permitted to do the completely irrational – the impossibly grand. Even the dialogue wheel mechanic is all about performing feats the defy common sense. Got enough morality points?  You can persuade people to do what you want. Not argue logically. Not draw a helpful diagram that will talk them through the slippery slope of their prospective actions. You calm them, or shut their flapping mouths the hell down. You perform an entirely irrational act – essentially not arguing better, but arguing more – and drag them along with the strength of your convictions, so magnetic and full of purpose that people fall immediately into line. They act irrationally too. Miranda and Jack, two souped up biotics on polar opposite ends of the girls-your-mum-wants-you-to-date-spectrum are ready to tear each other, the ship, and probably your pet hamster, apart; and yet you can swagger into the room and tell them to stow that crap for later. And they do. Because you are so damn convincing, and they believe in you.
 
Because that's what humans do, what for the majority of these games humans are presented doing: we believe in irrational things. Falling in love with Garrus or Tali makes no sense (with a Turian diet there will be no sharing a milkshake at the local diner; meeting the Quarian in-laws requires Haz-Mat suits and an unsettling amount of handy-wipes) but we do it anyway. Stopping a war with yelling makes no sense, but Shepard gets it done. We push boundaries, try out new and impossible circumstances, and by believing that we are up to the challenge we make it so. We find a giant space-doohickie frozen beside Pluto and we poke at it until we make it work. We meet a bunch of xenophobic council members who think humans are too pushy and not ready to become Spectres, so we keep pushing those council members until they agree to make us Spectres. We're told that there can be no end to the conflict between Geths and Quarians, and one way or another we end it. We get sent on a suicide mission and damned if we don't fly on back. The entire series has been an affront to expectation: we believe we can do something and we make it true; tell Shepard she can't and she'll call you back when she has.
 
We humans test and prod and evolve; we believe that we can stretch ourselves beyond our limitations. And it is when synthetics start feeling the inexorable tug of self-awareness that they start to have faith in things too: impossible, unquantifiable things that expand beyond the laws of physics and math. Legion asks if he has a soul (and goddamn it he does); EDI wonders how to quantify affection, but ultimately realises there are no instruction manuals or wikis to put in context what she feels for Jeff. They step beyond their programming, reaching out into a world beyond the prison of their specifications, and they start, finally, to believe.
 
What the concluding moments of Mass Effect exhibit, in contrast, what the Catalyst in all his unevolved synthetic wisdom presents, is the final vulgarity of the rational. He – in whatever long-forgotten transom of time he was programmed – did the cold, logical math. Hypothesis: synthetics will destroy humans. Conclusion: fact. And so he did what any artless machine would do: he programmed a corrective equation to regulate the chaos. It's like a leap day; only with genocide. And for him that was fine, because in the grander scheme of things life was permitted to perpetuate and the universe went spinning on.
 
But we are human. We do not surrender to the tedious drudgery of calculation. We know that if life is simply the perpetuation of a constant then it is nothing but code, and our mortal span merely components in a Rube Goldberg Machine. So we choose the other thing. We believe. We go on pushing and prodding and challenging the universe to be worthy of our questioning gaze.
 
But not this guy: this Catalyst. He has no imagination, no music, no soul. His solutions are just more of the same tedious robotic oppression that has spooled out over countless millennia: reprogram, delete, overwrite. Press the button; justify the means; become what you have fought against for so long...
 
But he didn't see me head-butt that Krogan in the face. 
 
He didn't see Liara long so much for her lover that she shot her name into the stars. He didn't see Tali finally lay eyes on her home world, or Mordin erupt in a curative blaze of mercy. He didn't even believe that all of these things were possible, and that at the same time none of them were, all in a multitude of versions of this wonderfully malleable tale. He doesn't know what it means to believe that things can change without control and domination.
 
I guess what I wanted from the ending – what I'm still waiting for in fact – is my Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz moment. The point where we get to pull back the curtain, show this little glowing bastard just how artless and crass these options are, how ridiculous his whole existence is. I know it's childish – petulant even – but I want to swim in the moment where my Shepard stands up and says, 'No.'   Where she looks that shimmering monster of equation in the eye and says, 'These are not real choices, and I don't believe in you.'
 
'But the probability of singularity occurring again in the future is certain,' Casper will say, tilting his head incredulously.
 
'Hm,' my Shepard will grunt, nodding ever so slightly through the pain. 'That all ... sounds very ... logical.' She'll inch closer to the window. 
 
'But you must choose.'
 
My Shepard will cough, tasting it then: the blood. She'll feel it in her lungs, wet and heavy, somehow cold. 'You thought it all out,' she'll say. 'Simple.'
 
'It is the only solution.'
 
'But you see,' she'll say. She'll look out into the abyss where the cacophonous ballet of conflict rages. She'll see something, a spark in the gloom. Her spine will straighten. Her eyes will light with fire. 'You see,' she'll say, her teeth clenched, the pain twisting her lip up into a sneer, 'I've still got them.'
 
A thrum of detonations will light with bubbles of flame, and in front of it all the familiar streak of the Normandy will flash on by, still firing those wonderfully calibrated guns, still dancing through the maw, not fleeing from the fight.
 
The Catalyst will turn his insubstantial head toward the stars. 'It is inevitable,' he will say. But this time it will be almost a question.
 
'But I believe –' she will say. 'That you and your goddamn solution, can go to hell.'
 
 
 
...And I don't have a clue what my Shepard does next. All I know is she will be tall, taller than I've ever seen her before. She will be like a phoenix, risen anew and glowing in the light of that onslaught as the universal alliance behind her rips through the Reaper hoard. They might not win, they might gamble and lose and watch the whole cycle spin into ash; but I've believed in Shepard long enough. I've seen her do exceptional, glorious things, and I believe that she can hold back the tide of unwinnable odds. 
 
No bending, no breaking, no compromise. In my mind she's going to stand there, glaring that glowing freak down. With the fleet that she has impossibly mustered through her tenacity and force of will still ripping everything arrogant enough to call itself 'inevitable' into drifting, incalculable shards.

Modifié par drayfish, 01 mai 2012 - 05:41 .


#1113
edisnooM

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@drayfish

Damn.

That is a far better summation than I could even have thought to write, and completely describes what I wanted to happen at the end. I truly and sincerely hope Bioware sees this thread.

#1114
M0keys

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grub wants to talk in this thread, so here he is.


CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I always just naturally assumed that the Reapers would be considered the answer to Fermi's paradox. Maybe that's a sign that I'm in too deep.


"It's certainly a side-effect, though I'm not sure if that was the seed of the idea."


CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

As for my suggestions regarding the Reaper's motivations, I don't mean to imply that I have the answer, and I certainly don't want to suggest that I have a perfect answer. As a frequent workshopper and sometimes editor, I often am looking for the smallest change that I can make to restore coherence. That doesn't meant that a complete rewrite wouldn't often be better.

The reason I'm fond of the "we are here to keep one race from using up the galaxy and stifling all other life" theory is that I can actually make a serious case that it is foreshadowed. If there's one story that keeps getting told throughout the trilogy, it's "Remember that one time one race almost took over the galaxy?" I'd say "what if this one race dominated the galaxy" is at the core of pretty much every major decision you make throughout the series.


"Funny thing is you already have an answer: the Reapers. No one has ever stopped them or usurped them. For over a billion years, they've ruthlessly annihilated all intelligent, feeling life in the galaxy. Safe to say no one has more power than they do. And look how much suffering they cause because nothing's around to correct them."

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

In ME1, if you let the council die, you're one step closer to a human run galaxy (presumably). The Rachnii problem is posed around "what if they try to rule the galaxy again?" In ME2, the Genophage cure is all about whether or not the Genophage was an acceptable way to stop the Krogan from dominating the galaxy. Then, the Collector base was going to give humanity access to tech far superior than any other race in the galaxy, bringing us closer to dominating it. Picking up on a theme here? Repeat in ME3 with the Krogan (again), the Rachnii (again) and the Geth (sort of).


"Can I just throw in here that I actually did everything I could to save every race in the galaxy? Saved the Quarians, saved the Geth, saved the Rachni.. I even saved the council, even though they're jerks. Being a reckless jerk doesn't mean you deserve death. Ejected from office, probably, but not killed. Everyone deserves a chance. Eventually the Reapers will prove my point anyway, no matter how stubborn people are.

Definitely destroyed the collector base, though. Wish that wasn't ignored in ME3."


CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Even if the Reapers' connection to that theme isn't hinted earlier in the series, if the reveal is something that is that strongly reinforced thematically throughout the series, I really think it counts as being foreshadowed.


"I think it was foreshadowed as a challenge to uniting the galaxy against evil, but I don't think synthetics always rebelling and annihilating the entire galaxy was. it was simply an issue. The moral problems tackled within the story itself proved that it is not inevitable, unless an infinite universe is considered in which all things are possible. From that, either everything has no meaning, or everything has infinitely relative meaning. So it gets a little silly at that point. You function based on reasonability and probability or you make decisions for everyone way in advance based on possible alternate universes."


CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

And if you're a planet-reader, like myself, you'll also pick up on a pattern of "oh, this planet used to have resources, now it's a tunneled-out husk." Even if they come and go in waves, if enough galaxy-spanning post-spaceflight species exist for long enough, eventually even the most basic resources for developing technology will be stripped from most worlds.


"I'm definitely a planet reader, but that aspect didn't really bother me. There are billions of planets in the galaxy. Even if you completely stripped one planet a year, it would still take billions of years to do it. Again, Reapers do more damage than we could ever dream. By now, a species from the very first cycle could have easily developed technology to rejuvenate all the planets. Presumably any species from previous times could've by now. Even if it's true that Synthetics destroy Organic life everytime (something certainly does, doesn't it?)

That's the damage the Reapers cause. By destroying the future of all spacefaring life, they destroy the future of the Galaxy. A problem bigger than the Reapers will one day come along, and the stunted evolution of the galaxy will be the downfall of all life forever."


CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

There's enough reinforcing the "every once in a while somebody will come by and conquer the crap out of everything" and "a lot of races utterly RUIN planets" that I'd count it as being foreshadowed if it did come up. Which it didn't.

In addition, the Renegade vs. Paragon choices often come down to "humanity should dominate the galaxy because we're the only ones who can be trusted" vs. "we've got to trust these aliens; accepting that doing so means we may never be the most powerful race." We could have had final moments that forced us to look more closely at our own assessments of the universe and then either discard or embrace them.

And you know what? That was a conflict I legitimately experienced as Shepard. I got angry at the council, and a lot of the time I was tempted to just say "screw you guys, I'm going to look after my own first." It was only my friendship with Garrus, Wrex, Tali, and Mordin that kept me coming back to the galactic community.


"It's true Shepard's squad mates gave me a better perspective on the galaxy, but once I realized the aliens and the synthetics felt just like humans do (even if they express it differently,) I felt just as motivated to cooperate, love, and fight forn all of them as I did with humans. This happened even in the very first entry (the story of the Geth is absolutely human, and the story of EDI on the moon is also fairly emotional.)

From that point on, I felt two motivators. My friends on the Normandy, and all the aliens abroad.

I never felt as though humans should be dominate. Should we have a say? Yes, but we have to show the best of our kind first. I would expect no less from any other race. We are all people, after all. Most of our differences are superficial. Some distinct cultural differences, true, but when it comes to our hearts, minds and souls, we are very similar indeed."



And that's what he has to say.

Modifié par M0keys, 01 mai 2012 - 05:16 .


#1115
edisnooM

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@CulturalGeekGirl

There was also the issue of the derelict Reaper in ME2 corrupting the scientists despite being "dead".

However that also leads to the question of how they were able to study the remains of Sovereign, and use the brain or heart from the human Reaper without any issues with craziness.

#1116
jbauck

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drayfish wrote...
 tell Shepard she can't and she'll call you back when she has.
 


Epic, epic post - I picked out this line because it's my favorite.  No matter how grim things were, no matter how many times the Reapers said "it's inevitable", I always believed Shepard could beat them, and the ending felt like a betrayal.

For my part, rounding back to the initial question that inspired this awesome post, my first thought about the ending of ME3 (after "WTF" and checking the forums to see if I could find what I did wrong ...) was that it reminded me of Aveline in DA2 talking about the battle at Ostagar.  I don't remember the exact quote, but she says that when the signal fire on the Tower of Ishal is lit, and no reinforcements came, it was "hope unrealized".  That sums it up for me: the ending of ME3 is hope unrealized.

#1117
Hawk227

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I always just naturally assumed that the Reapers would be considered the answer to Fermi's paradox. Maybe that's a sign that I'm in too deep.

As for my suggestions regarding the Reaper's motivations, I don't mean to imply that I have the answer, and I certainly don't want to suggest that I have a perfect answer. As a frequent workshopper and sometimes editor, I often am looking for the smallest change that I can make to restore coherence. That doesn't meant that a complete rewrite wouldn't often be better.

The reason I'm fond of the "we are here to keep one race from using up the galaxy and stifling all other life" theory is that I can actually make a serious case that it is foreshadowed. If there's one story that keeps getting told throughout the trilogy, it's "Remember that one time one race almost took over the galaxy?" I'd say "what if this one race dominated the galaxy" is at the core of pretty much every major decision you make throughout the series.

In ME1, if you let the council die, you're one step closer to a human run galaxy (presumably). The Rachnii problem is posed around "what if they try to rule the galaxy again?" In ME2, the Genophage cure is all about whether or not the Genophage was an acceptable way to stop the Krogan from dominating the galaxy. Then, the Collector base was going to give humanity access to tech far superior than any other race in the galaxy, bringing us closer to dominating it. Picking up on a theme here? Repeat in ME3 with the Krogan (again), the Rachnii (again) and the Geth (sort of).

Even if the Reapers' connection to that theme isn't hinted earlier in the series, if the reveal is something that is that strongly reinforced thematically throughout the series, I really think it counts as being foreshadowed.

And if you're a planet-reader, like myself, you'll also pick up on a pattern of "oh, this planet used to have resources, now it's a tunneled-out husk." Even if they come and go in waves, if enough galaxy-spanning post-spaceflight species exist for long enough, eventually even the most basic resources for developing technology will be stripped from most worlds. There's enough reinforcing the "every once in a while somebody will come by and conquer the crap out of everything" and "a lot of races utterly RUIN planets" that I'd count it as being foreshadowed if it did come up. Which it didn't.

In addition, the Renegade vs. Paragon choices often come down to "humanity should dominate the galaxy because we're the only ones who can be trusted" vs. "we've got to trust these aliens; accepting that doing so means we may never be the most powerful race." We could have had final moments that forced us to look more closely at our own assessments of the universe and then either discard or embrace them.

And you know what? That was a conflict I legitimately experienced as Shepard. I got angry at the council, and a lot of the time I was tempted to just say "screw you guys, I'm going to look after my own first." It was only my friendship with Garrus, Wrex, Tali, and Mordin that kept me coming back to the galactic community.
[regretful snip]


I feel like I need to preface with: I'm not nearly as eloquent as you and so many other posters here. For whatever reason, my writing style has been primarily a "persuasion" style. So, while I fear I sometimes come off as argumentative, please know that isn't my intention.

I noticed a few planets that had been mined beyond use. But I noticed a lot of planets that showed signs of aerial bombardment, all signs of civilization vaporized, and the planet no longer capable of sustaining complex life. I would say the Reapers are the bigger culprit of spoiling planets for life.

Anyway, I understand what you mean about preventing dominant societies. Certainly many of the secondary conflicts were born out of this. I sort of saw those narratives as separate from the primary one, being stopping the reapers. They were more compelling for a number of reasons, but personally I saw them as grand sidequests. For me, the primary theme was uniting the galaxy and finding strength in diversity (the obvious ones, I'm a little obtuse). So, therefore my personal preference was to not have a choice at all in the end. I felt like the story was solving conflicts both as we thought was "right" but also accounting for the fact that there will be no civilization left if we lose. I was undecided about the genophage. If I had had wreav instead of wrex and eve, I might not have cured it. But I trusted Mordin, Eve gave me hope for the species, and I knew I needed the Krogan. That decision was a sort of microcosm of how I approached the game. I rewrote the Geth because I was suspicious of their decision to ally with the reapers, and I knew they'd be helpful. By the time I finished I expected to fight to the crucible, turn it on and sit back and see if my decisions paid off. To get a new decision based off the nonsense of the catalyst, all of which felt contrived and nonsensical, was really unexpected and unwanted.

I also feel like the Reapers as evil post singularity menace, reaping cuz they can, was well foreshadowed. That conversation with Sovereign on virmire, it still blows my mind. I played ME2 before ME1, so I knew the general plot of ME1. I knew sovereign was a reaper, but this scene still floored me. I felt cowed. I could feel myself shrinking in my chair, the weight of the threat finally sinking in. There were gigantic, immortal, sentient spaceships that "trandcends our understanding" and have been successfully doing this for millions of years. I didn't know what the Tech Singularity was, but I could feel it in sovereign. The were evil, remorseless monsters that melted us down into goo to turn us into them! For me, that notion of what the Reapers were really resonated. I've discussed this with optimistickied, but by turning them into a tool, making them a solution instead of problem, the ending really robbed me of that feeling that virmire gave me. Sable Phoenix touched on some additional reasons why this was, but for me the ends could never justify those means.

As for a less thorough rewrite (I'm no good at seques this late), I would've been less upset if the Catalyst had spelled out his thesis more thoroughly with phrases like Technological Singularity, non-zero probability, and time is infinite so that it was explicitly clear that he thought even though I was friends with the Geth now, that wouldn't last forever. Followed with the choice of destroy without collateral damage because that felt to me like forced consequence to make the player squirm. The choice of just stepping aside and letting the Reapers reap. No synthesis because it has eugenics undertones (only by making everything the same can we have peace). Just the question of whether you accept the Catalyst's thesis and solution, or you don't. Even if you accept the thesis but not the solution, you can destroy the reapers and find one collectively as a galaxy. Also, no exploding relays. I remember what happened in Arrival. For me that would have been more appropriate. The catalyst tells you why he did what he did, and you either tell him to shove off or agree. Not 3 contrived, nonsensical, physically impossible choices that don't even seem to solve the stated problem.

PS: the grammar in this post imploded quickly. My apologies.

Modifié par Hawk227, 01 mai 2012 - 06:15 .


#1118
CulturalGeekGirl

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Right now I'm trying to walk the line between sweeping thematic criticism and what my friends and I call "working on this screenplay for the Phantom Menace." It's a tough line to walk. The problem is that doing the latter is much easier.

So no, I'm not arguing that the depletion or domination of the universe is actually inevitable. I'm also not arguing that we need three flavors of ending on some kind of graduated scale. Having the option to destroy the Reapers, and that option alone, would have definitely worked better than what we were given. My recent ramblings were my way of agreeing with the idea that any revelation about the Reapers had to be foreshadowed, while attempting to illustrate how you could use existing evidence to come up with something that makes at least some degree of sense. The problem is, I went into it in enough detail that it started to veer into "working on that screenplay" territory. Which means it invites argument, which makes people think "see, there's no ending that works for everyone. You're asking for the impossible."

The problem with working on this screenplay for the phantom menace is that it's too easy. Anyone can point out specific changes that would fix huge problems with that film. And it feels good, to watch the pieces come together in your hands, but it's also fruitless... coming up with ways to fix it isn't going to fix it, and by now everyone's got their own ideal solution. It's too late for agreement, or unity. I say "cut out the romance, it doesn't work" someone else says "cut out everything but the romance and make it a love triangle."

And this is, in some ways, the impossible goal that Bioware has set for us. They've asked for our feedback, with almost maddening specificity. "We're not changing the endings, but we're listening." They've brought us to the soup we didn't like and given us full reign over our own spicerack, and if we don't like the soup this time, well it's our fault. See, it's not so easy now, is it?

This is what I've been fighting with myself to try to do these past few weeks: somehow iterate feedback that is both meaningful and helpful in their current endeavor. How do I tell them what I want without working on a screenplay for the phantom menace? Is it even possible to give examples of ways it would have worked better without seemingly advocating them?

Drayfish's original post, and his one above, are of the sweeping thematic criticism variety. I would humbly submit my blog post a day or so ago as something that fits in that category as well. The problem is that stuff like that is difficult, and you often feel like you're not getting results. "Oh," someone who is reading it might say "Great. You wanted to feel like a phoenix at the end. That's real helpful."

That's another reason this hurts me - not just the ending, but everything that has come after. I'm sort of a writer. I write and get paid for it, but what I've been told I really excel at is punch-up and workshopping. And I want to help. They say "we're listening" but I don't know how to say things in a way that's helpful. They've given us strictures so tight that there is little productive feedback I can give that does not violate them, but I try to stay within the spirit of what they consider helpful (if not the letter), and I end up dusting off the old screenplay.

I feel a bit like Patton Oswalt doing punch up on CG animated movies, except nobody's paying me, they probably don't really care, and if I fail I'll lose one of the most important works of art of my generation.

Different choices, no choices, the simplicity of just destroying the reapers, the complexity of presenting the reapers in a comprehensible and foreshadowed way... I think we can all agree that any of those things would have helped. I've read half a dozen screenplays for the phantom menace, and they all have one thing in common: they're better than the original one was. To paraphrase my favorite poem, there are nine and sixty ways of constructing a better ending for Mass Effect 3, and every single one of them is right.

I just wish there were a better way to convey suggestions and ideas without feeling so gorram hamstrung.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 01 mai 2012 - 06:54 .


#1119
Hawk227

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@Drayfish:

I love that moment on Tuchanka, it's so audacious. I always expect shepard to concuss himself.

I wanted to respond because I think you've articulated what I didn't really realize I felt at the time. I remember sitting next to Anderson, listening to him die and wondering if Shepard would last long enough to see his accomplishment of ridding the galaxy of the Reapers. When Hackett chimed in and said nothing was happening, I was a little flabbergasted. Not in the same way optimistickied was, foiled by a control panel, but in the sense of doom. Shepard was clearly not in good shape, as he crawled desperately to the panel I was thinking "Oh no, how is he gonna get out of this, he can't even stand up." Then... the magic elevator spontaneously raised me to the catalyst. I'm not sure where it began, if it was the elevator or the "I am the catalyst, the citadel is a part of me line" but somewhere in there I was instantaneously divorced from the narrative. I was no longer shepard, I was Hawk227 watching on in horror from my couch. The transition was like an out of body experience. The whole thing felt so surreal that I didn't think it was over, I partially expected more gameplay after the choice. I heard destroy killed the Geth and synthesis was instantly ridiculous and repugnant, and that left me with Control. My decision making was kind of arbitrary at this point. It was blue, and I was paragon, so that was a plus. I could better accept that the illusive man was right than I could the ramifications of the others. But, still the decision was a sort of surrender. Okay, I guess I'll pick control so I can see what happens next. Except nothing really happened next. There was blue light, and Joker abandoned the fight with my squadmates who coulddn't be bothered to help their half melted commander and talisman finish the fight. It was all really perplexing. I sat their in awe, feeling like I had just gotten trolled. I still... don't really know.

Anyway, this was a remarkably round about way of saying that my out of body experience was your krogan head butting moment. I couldn't articulate why I felt the way I did, but you just did it for me. I too headbutted that krogan. I was the first human to survive Forvan's poisoned cocktail. I was told a dozen times by Hackett that no one could have solved that side mission peacefully. I might have been a little cowed, but I told Sovereign that he could be broken and then I broke him. I freed the Rachni Queen, because I trusted her after a 2 minute conversation. I ended a 300 year old war by yelling. I loosed the krogan on the galaxy because I had faith in Wrex and Eve.  I ran through a gaggle of brutes so that I could unleash the mother of all thresher maws on a reaper (!). I made it through the "suicide mission" not only alive but with my team unscathed. Collectors? pshaw. But the best retort I could muster against the catalyst's nonsense was an apathetic "maybe" and a passive "I don't know".

#1120
Hawk227

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@ CG Girl

I understand what you're saying. When I respond with "well actually this..." or "personally, I think this..." it's because I have a very different reason for being here. I'm here for some sort of catharsis. I just want to debate this with people that feel similarly. I want to share my interpretation, and experience others. I really enjoyed my debate with optimistickied a while back because he was opening my perspective a little. I didn't agree with him, but I was seeing things I hadn't seen before. I like the exercise of finding all the different ways it can be fixed. Analytically searching for those nice solutions that fits into the narrative. I enjoy the debate and the sharing of ideas. Not because I want to assert my clearly superior interpretation (sarcasm), but because I enjoy the back and forth. I enjoyed Keyrlis's link because it was filled with connections I hadn't made. I enjoy the sharing of ideas. I like to see that this mess really can be saved any number of ways. I guess in a way, I am here to rewrite the script to the phantom menace. Not because it'll get made, but just for the sake of my headcannon, or whatever. I'm not a writer, I have no real investment in the idea that maybe I can influence Bioware, although I'm hoping they are reading the contributions of you, dray, sable phoenix, keyrlis, strange aeons and so many others.

Having a biology background, and trying not to get too caught up in the debates over the mess that is "synthesis", I can sort of understand your feeling of being hamstrung. If only I could just explain to BW that synthetics don't have DNA, or that you can't just change DNA so it encodes for microchips!

Modifié par Hawk227, 01 mai 2012 - 07:29 .


#1121
CulturalGeekGirl

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Yeah, I'm also not trying to say "geeze guys, stop reading and responding to the things I say. That's like... so lame." Just trying to make sure that my flights of fancy aren't seen as me buckling down and saying "seriously folks, here's the best way to fix this."

I just got caught in a moment of mild despair. It'll pass, I'm sure.

Now, to accentuate the positive...
Can I say how delighted I am to find that a decent number of posters here use the feminine pronoun for Shepard? I was kinda heartbroken last year when I saw in the stats that something like 82% of people's Shepards were male, so I kinda started using the male pronoun during discussions, to try to make my posts more relatable.

It's lovely to not have to do that.

#1122
M0keys

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drayfish wrote...

A while back (in fact days back actually; man, I love this thread) CulturalGeekGirl asked what everyone's first experience was when finishing the game, and on some level I think I've tried to avoid thinking through the emotion of that experience too much. I employed the mechanics of narrative and the manipulation of form (all of which I still heartily believe in), but that doesn't quite capture my own personal thought process, and the stunned distaste it engendered.

...

No bending, no breaking, no compromise. In my mind she's going to stand there, glaring that glowing freak down. With the fleet that she has impossibly mustered through her tenacity and force of will still ripping everything arrogant enough to call itself 'inevitable' into drifting, incalculable shards.


i'd just like to point out how eerily similar parts of this are to Grub's ending. right down to usage of words. really.

guess like minds think alike.

Modifié par M0keys, 01 mai 2012 - 08:00 .


#1123
Hawk227

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Yeah, I'm also not trying to say "geeze guys, stop reading and responding to the things I say. That's like... so lame." Just trying to make sure that my flights of fancy aren't seen as me buckling down and saying "seriously folks, here's the best way to fix this."

I just got caught in a moment of mild despair. It'll pass, I'm sure.

Now, to accentuate the positive...
Can I say how delighted I am to find that a decent number of posters here use the feminine pronoun for Shepard? I was kinda heartbroken last year when I saw in the stats that something like 82% of people's Shepards were male, so I kinda started using the male pronoun during discussions, to try to make my posts more relatable.

It's lovely to not have to do that.


For what its worth, I've never read your posts that way. I just wanted to make clear I wasn't just grumpily telling you you were wrong. I guess we were doing the same thing.

I've tried playing as the female shepard and can't really do it. As you can probably guess from my use of "I" instead of "he", I really buy into the RPG side of it. Shepard becomes an extension of me, and I have a hard time relating to a female protagonist. With that said, I also enjoy how many people consider shepard a she. One thing I have to give BW a lot of credit for is not falling into the mandatory straight white male protagonist hole with everything else. That so many female (and male) players have found a strong, not overly sexualized female protagonist to role play is pretty cool. The addition of gay romances was a nice touch, although I thought they were poorly executed. Points for trying though.

#1124
CulturalGeekGirl

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It's funny, I didn't have insomnia for like three months before ME3 came out. Or rather, I had a night or two of insomnia every month, but no long stretches.

I swear that since this game has come out, I've had longer periods of insomnia than I've had in a decade. I sometimes feel like the only reason I sleep is that my body is too old to stay up until I hallucinate anymore.

Also I'm having these mood swings, and I think I lost some time at some point. Is this a tumor? Did I always have this extra arm?

So I'm contemplating bringing up the topic that is contributing to my troubled sleep tonight. I don't really want to, because I fear it will derail the excellence around here... but by now we're like family here, right? We've been in this foxhole long enough, there's no more room for secrets.

Given the parameters set forth so far, do you think it's possible that the EC will help more than a little?

Right now the only thing I can see them doing that is productive is this: you can challenge the Starkid on the idea that EDI and the Geth will die, and if your EMS is high enough you'll be right and hurrah. This still leaves us with two thematically revolting endings and the last one is sort of a copout, but most people will be sort of OK with it.

Anyone have a different opinion? Speak comfort to me, friends.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 01 mai 2012 - 08:17 .


#1125
M0keys

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

It's funny, I didn't have insomnia for like three months before ME3 came out. Or rather, I had a night or two of insomnia every month, but no long stretches.

I swear that since this game has come out, I've had longer periods of insomnia than I've had in a decade.


did you ever read Grant Morrison's "final crisis" series?

there was a concept in it called the anti-life equation. Upon seeing it, any life form is drained of all desire to be alive and becomes an empty slave to the archetypal essence of mind domination.

loneliness + alienation + fear + despair + self-worth ÷ mockery ÷
condemnation ÷ misunderstanding × guilt × shame × failure × judgment n=y
where y=hope and n=folly, love=lies, life=death, self=dark side


maybe overexaggeration, but the ending of Mass Effect 3 might just be a distant cousin...!